Author Topic: My Goodness the Magic were crazy  (Read 710 times)

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My Goodness the Magic were crazy
« on: June 20, 2018, 02:47:48 PM »

Offline LatterDayCelticsfan

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Looking at the absurd trade packages that the Magic turned down from Billy 'I don't keep first rounders' King, listed in the article below and I am thinking. These guys could have got the rebuild we ended up with. Jesus, what would they do to wind back the clock.


https://www.netsdaily.com/2018/6/20/17435204/a-history-of-the-dwightmares-i-through-v
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Re: My Goodness the Magic were crazy
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2018, 03:06:32 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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It's amazing to me that Billy King kept his job after trading a top 3 protected pick for Gerald freakin' Wallace.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 03:14:19 PM by Monkhouse »
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Re: My Goodness the Magic were crazy
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2018, 03:17:17 PM »

Offline greece666

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Nets were not any less crazy with hindsight.

Re: My Goodness the Magic were crazy
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2018, 03:52:03 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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I don't think billy king is as bad as people think. No one, even Ainge, thought the nets would implode just a year or so after the trade. The nets thought they were trading late firsts not top tier lottery picks


Re: My Goodness the Magic were crazy
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2018, 04:13:49 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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I don't think billy king is as bad as people think. No one, even Ainge, thought the nets would implode just a year or so after the trade. The nets thought they were trading late firsts not top tier lottery picks

Lol, yeah okay. Billy King himself admitted that Pierce/Garnett had 2-3 years max. Why even give up more than a pick max? Not to mention swap with unprotected/worst pick?

Quote
"The arrogance in the room was that we were going to roll, we were going to win these next couple of years," said a former Nets staff member who was in the draft room. "Maybe not the championship, but we were going to win the next couple of years and have sustainable success. We were going to keep signing free agents. We were always going to draft between 20 and 30. So if we're going to swap with the Celtics, who gives a f--k? That definitely was the thought."

Overeager negotiating had been a problem of GM Billy King. Even before the Celtics deal, he relinquished four total first-round picks in trades for Williams, Wallace and Joe Johnson. He had offered up many others in proposals for Carmelo and Dwight Howard, all under ownership's directive that stars were required for the move from New Jersey to Brooklyn.


Quote
"It's the same way people think of (Kings owner) Vivek (Ranadive) and (Kings GM) Vlade (Divac), like '[dang], they're running out of assets. We can't strip them anymore.' Everyone knew this was Billy's weakness. ...He created this situation where his only way out was to chase stars and hit a grand slam by swinging for the fences. He thought he got step 1 with Deron (Williams). And he was like, 'I'm so close to getting step 2, I'm going to keep chasing these stars and I have owners that will pay.' It created this disaster."

King's worst deal was for Wallace in 2012, a panic move meant to help convince Williams to re-sign in free agency that summer. The pick given in exchange to the Blazers turned into Dame Lillard, a point guard who is immensely better than Williams today.

But the deal with Boston was different. It was backed by logic — albeit flawed in retrospect — and lauded at the time as pushing the Nets into real contention. King had even gone around the room that evening asking about the proposal. There wasn't much, if any, dissension. According to a report on Netsdaily.com, Milton Lee, the GM of the franchise's D-League affiliate, represented the lone vocal opposition.

"Looking back, my one regret — and I know Billy gets a lot of arrows for the swap rights for this year — was that I shouldn't have done the swap, or that I should've put some type of protection on the swap there looking back on everything," Marks said. "It wasn't just Billy. This was a group decision here. This was the group in the room."

I do agree, maybe we're harsh on Billy King, but no one, not even LeBron at age 35 or 37, would I give up 3 unprotected picks.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/nets/worst-trade-back-nets-celtics-deal-2013-article-1.3255407

« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 04:30:23 PM by Monkhouse »
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different

Re: My Goodness the Magic were crazy
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2018, 05:08:48 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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I don't think billy king is as bad as people think. No one, even Ainge, thought the nets would implode just a year or so after the trade. The nets thought they were trading late firsts not top tier lottery picks

Then why not have any protection on the picks? Anything, even top-1 protection, would have been better than giving us all those unprotected picks
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Re: My Goodness the Magic were crazy
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2018, 05:22:44 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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The trade made some semblance of sense as they already had DWill (who was not long before considered the #2 PG behind CP3), a perennial all-star in Joe Johnson, and an all-star center in Lopez.

They didn’t bring in Pierce and KG to carry a team, they brought them in to put them into contention.

And I think had they been healthy, they could have been good. I don’t fault the vision, even if Ainge fleeced him knowing he could. I think the biggest mistake was letting Kidd run that group.

Williams/Johnson/Pierce/Garnett/Lopez is a great starting five, even with KG running on fumes and Pierce clearly past his prime. The bench had guys like Terry, Livingston, Kirilenko, Teletovic, and Blatche, not exactly the thinnest bench I’ve seen.

We all know how it worked out, but at the time, it wasn’t a terrible idea for a franchise with a new arena in a new city. They made headlines (cover of SI NBA preview), they went for it. I remember being here when it went down and it being bittersweet for us, knowing PP/KG would get one final crack at a championship while also hopefully kickstarting our rebuild. NOBODY envisioned we would eventually get a #3, #1, and Kyrie Irving out of it.


Thank goodness Dwight is such a bonehead and backed out of it otherwise we wouldn’t have gotten those picks. The Gerald Wallace deal needed better draft protection in hindsight, but keep in mind Wallace was just previously traded a year before by Charlotte for TWO firsts!
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Re: My Goodness the Magic were crazy
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2018, 05:25:17 PM »

Offline saltlover

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I don't think billy king is as bad as people think. No one, even Ainge, thought the nets would implode just a year or so after the trade. The nets thought they were trading late firsts not top tier lottery picks

Then why not have any protection on the picks? Anything, even top-1 protection, would have been better than giving us all those unprotected picks

They couldn’t have protected them all  and still given the Celtics all the picks. You can only have two future picks protected at a time, so that means the earliest the protections could have started would have been 2017 (because if you protext 2014 or 2016, that’s going to push back the other picks and require protections in the form of 2nd round conversions). As the 2017 and 2018 picks were the ones with the most value (Nets had a greater chance of going south by that time), protection would have been a harder sell.

It was still a terrible trade, and I’m not convinced King even thought about why your alternative wouldn’t work, but it wouldn’t have worked.
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Re: My Goodness the Magic were crazy
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2018, 05:31:29 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Re: My Goodness the Magic were crazy
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2018, 05:41:14 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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The trade made some semblance of sense as they already had DWill (who was not long before considered the #2 PG behind CP3), a perennial all-star in Joe Johnson, and an all-star center in Lopez.

They didn’t bring in Pierce and KG to carry a team, they brought them in to put them into contention.

And I think had they been healthy, they could have been good. I don’t fault the vision, even if Ainge fleeced him knowing he could. I think the biggest mistake was letting Kidd run that group.

Williams/Johnson/Pierce/Garnett/Lopez is a great starting five, even with KG running on fumes and Pierce clearly past his prime. The bench had guys like Terry, Livingston, Kirilenko, Teletovic, and Blatche, not exactly the thinnest bench I’ve seen.

We all know how it worked out, but at the time, it wasn’t a terrible idea for a franchise with a new arena in a new city. They made headlines (cover of SI NBA preview), they went for it. I remember being here when it went down and it being bittersweet for us, knowing PP/KG would get one final crack at a championship while also hopefully kickstarting our rebuild. NOBODY envisioned we would eventually get a #3, #1, and Kyrie Irving out of it.


Thank goodness Dwight is such a bonehead and backed out of it otherwise we wouldn’t have gotten those picks. The Gerald Wallace deal needed better draft protection in hindsight, but keep in mind Wallace was just previously traded a year before by Charlotte for TWO firsts!

The trade made sense at the time, but a lot of people were 50/50 on it. I was upset as a Celtics fan, but 3 unprotected picks was crazy to me.

Hindsight is hindsight, but their 2 of their big 3 had injury concerns.

Lopez/D-Will weren't durable, and D-Will wilted under pressure/adversity. I think he wanted Dwight here, so he could step up as the alpha, and D-Will could be the complimentary 2nd scorer.
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different

Re: My Goodness the Magic were crazy
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2018, 06:48:10 PM »

Offline Timdawgg

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Reading recounts of trade talks between Nets and Magic is like...

https://youtu.be/UnkefjCES-4
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Re: My Goodness the Magic were crazy
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2018, 06:56:28 PM »

Offline greece666

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I don't think billy king is as bad as people think. No one, even Ainge, thought the nets would implode just a year or so after the trade. The nets thought they were trading late firsts not top tier lottery picks

Then why not have any protection on the picks? Anything, even top-1 protection, would have been better than giving us all those unprotected picks

yep, to even think he made such offers and even got them turned down. that's bad, like really bad. at least he taught the whole league a lesson about pick protection. I doubt we ll ever see unprotected picks again, at least not the way the nets did it.