Opinion on C's Starting Five.

[TheFlex]

I believe Turner is better than Rondo

My guess is you might be the only person besides Evan Turner's mom that believes this and that includes Evan Turner.

Rondo was the 29th rated point guard in the league last year.
He isn't the player he once was.

He played part of a season coming back from ACL surgery. Usually it takes 2 years for players coming back from ACL surgery to get all their quickness back. I expect his season to resemble one of his best years, not his absolute worst. Since I'm optimistic, I expect him to put up numbers closer to his playoff averages than regular season ones.

I don't think Rondo will ever be the player he once was.
But he may help us get into the lottery again this year.

Don't people ever get tired of making controversial statements without offering evidence/reasoning? We may still disagree, but at least you don't come off as stubborn and ignorant.

You know very well that the second half of last year is far too small a sample size of Rondo's play to judge his future value... a sample size packed with numerous variables as well (such as his knee injury and process of returning to full health, gaining continuity as the dominant leader with a whole new cast of supporting players, etc.).

[Chris22]

I believe Turner is better than Rondo

My guess is you might be the only person besides Evan Turner's mom that believes this and that includes Evan Turner.

Rondo was the 29th rated point guard in the league last year.
He isn't the player he once was.

He played part of a season coming back from ACL surgery. Usually it takes 2 years for players coming back from ACL surgery to get all their quickness back. I expect his season to resemble one of his best years, not his absolute worst. Since I'm optimistic, I expect him to put up numbers closer to his playoff averages than regular season ones.

I don't think Rondo will ever be the player he once was.
But he may help us get into the lottery again this year.

Don't people ever get tired of making controversial statements without offering evidence/reasoning? We may still disagree, but at least you don't come off as stubborn and ignorant.

You know very well that the second half of last year is far too small a sample size of Rondo's play to judge his future value... a sample size packed with numerous variables as well (such as his knee injury and process of returning to full health, gaining continuity as the dominant leader with a whole new cast of supporting players, etc.).

Rondo shot 40% from the field and was ranked 29th in the league among point guards....

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/year/2014

[blink]

I believe Turner is better than Rondo

My guess is you might be the only person besides Evan Turner's mom that believes this and that includes Evan Turner.

Rondo was the 29th rated point guard in the league last year.
He isn't the player he once was.

I am all for people to formulate their own opinions, but this is just crazy.  PER isn't the end all be all of stats even if you are comparing apples to apples, which you aren't because:

1) RR was coming back from a acl injury and was in and out of the lineup after he came back
2) he only played 30 games all of last year, he didn't even qualify for a number of different nba stats.  for example, he dished out 9.8 assists per game, which would have had him 2nd in the nba behind cp3. 

Turner isn't a better point guard than RR.  I swear the next thread will probably be "pressey is better than Rondo".  Gotta love the insanity, I guess?

[MBunge]

I believe Turner is better than Rondo

My guess is you might be the only person besides Evan Turner's mom that believes this and that includes Evan Turner.

Rondo was the 29th rated point guard in the league last year.
He isn't the player he once was.

He played part of a season coming back from ACL surgery. Usually it takes 2 years for players coming back from ACL surgery to get all their quickness back. I expect his season to resemble one of his best years, not his absolute worst. Since I'm optimistic, I expect him to put up numbers closer to his playoff averages than regular season ones.

I don't think Rondo will ever be the player he once was.
But he may help us get into the lottery again this year.

Don't people ever get tired of making controversial statements without offering evidence/reasoning? We may still disagree, but at least you don't come off as stubborn and ignorant.

You know very well that the second half of last year is far too small a sample size of Rondo's play to judge his future value... a sample size packed with numerous variables as well (such as his knee injury and process of returning to full health, gaining continuity as the dominant leader with a whole new cast of supporting players, etc.).

Rondo shot 40% from the field and was ranked 29th in the league among point guards....

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/year/2014

And the year before Rondo got hurt Hollinger had him ranked behind Mike Conley, Jose Calderon and Kemba Walker.

Mike

[TheFlex]

I believe Turner is better than Rondo

My guess is you might be the only person besides Evan Turner's mom that believes this and that includes Evan Turner.

Rondo was the 29th rated point guard in the league last year.
He isn't the player he once was.

He played part of a season coming back from ACL surgery. Usually it takes 2 years for players coming back from ACL surgery to get all their quickness back. I expect his season to resemble one of his best years, not his absolute worst. Since I'm optimistic, I expect him to put up numbers closer to his playoff averages than regular season ones.

I don't think Rondo will ever be the player he once was.
But he may help us get into the lottery again this year.

Don't people ever get tired of making controversial statements without offering evidence/reasoning? We may still disagree, but at least you don't come off as stubborn and ignorant.

You know very well that the second half of last year is far too small a sample size of Rondo's play to judge his future value... a sample size packed with numerous variables as well (such as his knee injury and process of returning to full health, gaining continuity as the dominant leader with a whole new cast of supporting players, etc.).

Rondo shot 40% from the field and was ranked 29th in the league among point guards....

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/year/2014

You actually think that's a reasonable sample size -- knee injury, new team, new coach/system, having to come in mid-season and all?

I'm far from a Rondo apologist. I think there are a lot of reasons not to sign him to max money for five years. His 2013 season is not one of them. I think you're a tad biased.

[Chris22]

My revised starting five...Turner, Young, Green, Sullinger, and Zeller.

[D Dub]

My revised starting five...Turner, Young, Green, Sullinger, and Zeller.

okay..i'm use to the rondo debate, but now you've got Young over both Smart and AB.

are you serious or just dragging the net for fish?

[Chris22]

My revised starting five...Turner, Young, Green, Sullinger, and Zeller.

okay..i'm use to the rondo debate, but now you've got Young over both Smart and AB.

are you serious or just dragging the net for fish?

I am tired of us being the smallest team on the floor. I think long term Young will replace Bradley.

[greece66]

My revised starting five...Turner, Young, Green, Sullinger, and Zeller.

Are you Young's agent?

[More Banners]

a huge front line is tempting enough itself, and the KO/Zeller thing just interesting enough to try out for a spell.

And Turner is a starter.

Green can complement almost anyone, proving he's a complementary player, but is he talented enough to be a complementary star?

The lineup:

Rondo/Turner/Green/KO/Zeller

Bench rotation:

Sully
Bradley
Smart
Bass (limited minutes)
Young (limited minutes)

[Vermont Green]

Turner, Bradley, Green, Sullinger, and Zeller.

I posted the Turner-Bradley starting backcourt a while ago but only until Rondo gets back.  No matter what you feel about Rondo, I don' think there is anyway that he will come off the bench once he is back.  He would be traded for scraps before sitting on the bench.  There would be no way he would resign after something like that so there would be no point to it.  It would be lose-lose-lose-lose.

Against Philly, the Turner-Bradley combination was +25 or something like that.  Of course Philly seems to think that losing preseason games will help to get a better draft.  They don't seem to understand that tanking in the preseason isn't going to help.

[Celtics18]

Really, I think the only debate here is who is going to start at the point until Rondo returns.  I think Marcus Smart had a shot, but he's lost that position to Evan Turner, who I would  count on as the starting point guard on opening night.

The other four starters seem to be established.  They are the guys that Brad Stevens has been starting all preseason long:  Bradley, Green, Sullinger, Olynyk.

I wouldn't expect coach to all of a sudden change that lineup for the regular season. 

[crimson_stallion]

Rondo, Bradley, Green, Bass, Olynyk

I believe that's the most balanced starting 5 we have, and is a nice balance between slashing, shooting and defence.

Sully is in horrible condition this pre-season, as much as he has impressed the box scores with his 'on paper' production, this completely covers up the fact that his defence has been well and truly horrendous as a result of his total lack of mobility and size. 

Against the Raptors it was almost embarrassing - their bigs were shooting straight over Sully like he was a SG.  He jumped with his arm up to contest, but due to his lack of height and vertical he wasn't able to even come close to bothering the shot...and when they weren't shooting over him they were running by him like he was standing still.

After Sully sat I saw them trying the exact same thing against both Olynyk and Zeller with minimal success.  I think they managed to shoot over Olynyk's outstretched arm one time...every other time he was able to get his hand up high enough to bother the shot, or was able to use his (relative) agility to cut off the drive and force them in to a tough position. 

Transition effort was even worse by Sully.  Olynyk was constantly one of the first men back on defense and one of the first men up on offense.  I saw a number of possessions where Sully either jogged back incredibly slowly (by the time he got back there was already a change in possession) and a possession or two where he didn't get back at all.

Sully has looked reasonably energetic in about the first 3-5 minutes of getting in the game, but after that time has passed he looks slow in every possible way.  At times you could see that he saw a chance to make a move, was about to step, then backed off because he realised he was too slow to get to it. 

Sully is now in his third season in the league.  His back has been repaired, his finger is no longer injured, he's had a full training camp...and he's just about out of excuses.  I'm hoping he comes off the bench, because that way he can come in for 5 minutes at a time, play hard, and really provide a spark for us.

My optimal second unit would be:

Smart
Thornton
Turner
Sully
Zeller

My only reason for not starting Zeller (over Bass) is that we need a defensive player with some size off the bench to pair with Sully, as his D is truly horrific.  Bass is a solid defensive player, but the Bass+Sully combination is too lacking in size...and we all know by now that having this combination in the game (at any time) is a pure disaster.
 
On the other hand Olynyk is a legit 7 footer with decent mobility, so having Bass along side Olynyk wouldn't be so bad.  Bass can man up against stronger and more physical bigs, while Olynyk can take the longer and skinner big (assuming there is one). 

Also this combination ensures there is always a big in the game with three point range - either Sully or Olynyk.

[Csfan1984]

A lot of different takes. I never considered taking Sully out of the starting lineup because feel he has a decent inside game. I do see what people say about his D lacking. A plus is he will ware guys down physically. A lot of people like Turner starting but only when Rondo is out. Kind of thought there would be more fans of the small ball line-up that kept him starting.

[More Banners]

A lot of different takes. I never considered taking Sully out of the starting lineup because feel he has a decent inside game. I do see what people say about his D lacking. A plus is he will ware guys down physically. A lot of people like Turner starting but only when Rondo is out. Kind of thought there would be more fans of the small ball line-up that kept him starting.

He's a heck of a player for sure, but two 7 footers is nice in today's league. I doubt KO can keep up with guys like Griffin Aldridge West and other big and quick 4's. Bass seems to be matchup insurance.

The 4-big rotation is set, it's a matter of minutes and who starts. My money is on our 3 younger bigs being the main 3, KO Sully Zeller.

I still say to big all the way and start

Rondo
Turner
Green
Olynyk
Zeller

And integrate a bench of

Smart
Bradley
Thornton
Sully
Bass
Wallace

I'm imagining Thornton coming in for KO after a couple of fouls, and the whole look changing.