Author Topic: An honest letter to everyone about LeBron James  (Read 46909 times)

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Re: An honest letter to everyone about LeBron James
« Reply #90 on: June 15, 2014, 11:45:37 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

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I cannot consider Lebron among the handful of the best players ever.  He was phenomenal in the first quarter of the game today, but he was ordinary the rest of the game and was walking up and down the floor in the middle of the fourth quarter.  He seems to wilt in the face of adversity far too often. 
Can anyone who watched the second half of today's game (or games 3 & 4) honestly say that he elevated his team, took over a game, or went down fighting?  Can anyone say he played with as much heart as Jordan, Bird, or Kobe?  Physically, he's as talented as anyone ever, but he does not have that love of competition or determination to win that these other guys had.

Re: An honest letter to everyone about LeBron James
« Reply #91 on: June 16, 2014, 12:08:20 AM »

Offline doinky

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I cannot consider Lebron among the handful of the best players ever.  He was phenomenal in the first quarter of the game today, but he was ordinary the rest of the game and was walking up and down the floor in the middle of the fourth quarter.  He seems to wilt in the face of adversity far too often. 
Can anyone who watched the second half of today's game (or games 3 & 4) honestly say that he elevated his team, took over a game, or went down fighting?  Can anyone say he played with as much heart as Jordan, Bird, or Kobe?  Physically, he's as talented as anyone ever, but he does not have that love of competition or determination to win that these other guys had.

he isn't. the greats step up when the stakes are highest. lebron doesn't.

 i know lebron apologists will say that he did his part, that the others didn't do enough, blah blah blah. but to be considered one of the greatest, filling out individual stat sheets isn't enough. he didn't make his teammates better, he was contained much of the time by leonard, and he quit in the 4th. good, not great.

Re: An honest letter to everyone about LeBron James
« Reply #92 on: June 16, 2014, 12:59:00 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Lebron is a legend, and is 100% in the same conversation as guys like Larry, Jordan, Magic etc..he's a generational player with a mix of skill, intelligence and consistent huge performances that turn franchise players into hall of famers.

You don't get in the discussion with Jordan (or Russell) if you are 2-3 in the Finals.  And you don't get to use bad teammates as an excuse when LeBron specifically picked those teammates and picked them because he thought they were going to be good enough to help him not just win but create a super-team to dominate the league.  If you don't want to play by the same rules as others, you don't get to use the same excuses.

Mike

Re: An honest letter to everyone about LeBron James
« Reply #93 on: June 16, 2014, 01:01:43 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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He's a statistical anomaly. His size, speed, strength and co-ordination are incredibly rare.
What's amazing with Lebron is that he's managed to improve his game from being just a bulldozer who puts his head down and shoulder barrells his way to the free throw line. He's become a good shooter over time. Some of the enormous shots he's hit to carry those Heat teams were just sickening. He's become such a smart player, and in my eyes is the modern day version of Magic Johnson with his overall game. I will go there and say he's better than Magic Johnson, and about on the same level as Bird.

It annoys me when people say 'he teamed up to beat everyone when they used to do it fairly'. What a load of crap. Magic, Bird and Jordan's support casts were incredible. Wade has been about as good as Pippen for 2 of these 4 finals.
Look at Larry's supporting casts...how would Larry or MJ or Magic fare with team mates playing like this years Heat are?


I will honestly never forget game 6 in Boston in 2012 ECF. 45 points, 15 rebounds, 5 assists and shot something like 20 of 26 field goal attempts. Their next best scorer was D Wade with 17 or 18  points.
Lebron is a legend, and is 100% in the same conversation as guys like Larry, Jordan, Magic etc..he's a generational player with a mix of skill, intelligence and consistent huge performances that turn franchise players into hall of famers.

Don't forget how good this Spurs team is either- it's up there with the great teams in NBA history. His sidekicks have let him down this season. I'd argue that none of these guys on his team have been anywhere near as effective as Pippen was for Jordan in the NBA finals.

I will say I think Lebron hasn't taken control on his own enough in these finals. He seems so focused on trying to beat the Spurs by getting everyone involved on the Heat that he's over looked opportunities to score and punish the Spurs. You can see Kwahi Leonard go under screens instead of over the top, and Lebron will have a wide open 12 foot jumpshot- something he needs to take and at least try and hit a few of to make them think about coming back over screens- yet he visibly goes into the jumpshot motion and stops and almost thinks out loudly 'they want me to shoot this, I'm not going to fall for that', and he dishes off to another player.

He needs to stop trying to get everyone else involved and just attack the basket and get to the line. Once he starts getting to the hole, that's when the defense will start collapsing on him and his team mates will get wide open looks. Something's just not there for the Heat this year and the Spurs have made Lebron over think things a little bit too much in my opinion. ( Which I have no doubt this was Popovich's aim in the first place).

Wade is cooked, Bosh has been mediocre and Chalmers and Ray Allen have been complete duds too. If Jordan's team mates had played this poorly he wouldn't beat this Spurs team either.
It's just surprising they're so fried because they had an easy run to the finals and yet they can barely make a rotation on defense.

But yeah I agree with the OP.
LBJ= Living Legend.
I want the Spurs to win because I love Popovich, but Lebron's team mates haven't done their jobs this season and there's only so much that one man can do against an offense like San Antonio's  when it's firing on all cylinders.

Although I respect your views, I'm afraid that I have to disagree.  Lebron is nowhere near Magic or Bird, and here's why.  I personally hate the term 'supporting cast', which only started to appear when Jordan wasn't yet winning titles.  Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, and Isiah Thomas never had 'supporting casts', they had TEAMMATES.  In fact, you could make the argument that, until his 1st mvp in 87, Magic was actually a part of LA's supporting cast, because it was Kareem's team.  Jabbar was the go-to guy, not Magic, at least not for the first 7 years of Johnson's career, and then you also have to factor in Worthy, and he was a go-to guy as well.  Yes, Magic had huge performances in many of the biggest moments (game 6 in 1980 comes to mind), but the offense didn't revolve around him, although it's impossible to fault the Lakers for centering their offense around the man who scored the most points in NBA History.

All I'm trying to say is that, while there were role players, as there are today, the idea of a supporting cast never existed prior to at least 1990.  Jordan was a terrible teammate, and apparently, Magic wasn't the greatest one either, as they both belittled guys on their own teams, but it was Michael who first referred to Pippen and Grant etc as his 'supporting cast', just as Lebron did while he was in Cleveland, and I think it's a little insulting to the other guys.  Larry Bird never called a member of his team a part of his 'supporting cast', not even Greg Kite.  #33 was also a great teammate, certainly better than Jordan or Magic.  He encouraged his guys and worked with them, and everyone who played with him became a better player, especially in terms of passing.  That's not the case with Lebron or Jordan, the latter of whom could only win under a certain coach and system that was designed to get the other players involved offensively.  What a joke.  Isn't that the job of a great player, to use the defensive attention on him to get his teammates, or in this case, members of his supporting cast  ::) , more involved via easy baskets and such? 

Besides, in the case of Lebron, where was the leadership after they lost game 3?  In 1984, Larry ripped himself and his teammates after getting blown out in game 3, and they responded.  Lebron didn't seem to be too concerned after getting blown out on his home floor and thus relinquishing the home court advantage.  It's not even close, imho, between Bird and James, but everyone has their own opinion and I respect that.  Just my two cents.

Oh, and if you haven't already visited the thread entitled 'Calling All Music Lovers', http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=70754.0, I'd encourage you to do so.  Wait until you hear her sing!

Re: An honest letter to everyone about LeBron James
« Reply #94 on: June 16, 2014, 01:26:14 AM »

Offline doinky

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Lebron is a legend, and is 100% in the same conversation as guys like Larry, Jordan, Magic etc..he's a generational player with a mix of skill, intelligence and consistent huge performances that turn franchise players into hall of famers.

You don't get in the discussion with Jordan (or Russell) if you are 2-3 in the Finals.  And you don't get to use bad teammates as an excuse when LeBron specifically picked those teammates and picked them because he thought they were going to be good enough to help him not just win but create a super-team to dominate the league.  If you don't want to play by the same rules as others, you don't get to use the same excuses.

Mike

tp. i personally don't hate on him for joining up with miami how he did..BUT when trying to shoehorn him into the discussion of the all time greats, it has to be regarded. and people need to stop with the excuses about his teammates this time around.

Re: An honest letter to everyone about LeBron James
« Reply #95 on: June 26, 2014, 09:22:56 AM »

Offline Moranis

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James is already 27th all time for total points scored in NBA history.  He will likely finish next season in the top 20. 

He is 35th all time for total assists.  He should finish next season in the mid-20's. 

He is 151st all time in rebounds and will likely move up about 30 spots next year.

He is 45th all time in steals and will likely move up 10-15 spots next year. 

He is 158th all time in blocks and should move up another 10-15 spots next year.


Now granted steals and blocks weren't around in the very early days of the NBA, but he has still done all that and is still just 29 years old.  Now granted  he has a ton of miles on his legs, but he could reasonably finish his career in the top ten in points, steals, and assists; the top 30 in  rebounds; and the top 50 in blocks.  He is a 4 time MVP, 2 time champion, and by far the best and most versatile and athletic player in the league during the time when the NBA's athleticism and skill is at an all time high. 
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Re: An honest letter to everyone about LeBron James
« Reply #96 on: June 26, 2014, 09:28:45 AM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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i'd like to know how Lebron, Wade & Bosh were going to win "not 7, not 8...." if they were only signed for 4 yr's.?

Re: An honest letter to everyone about LeBron James
« Reply #97 on: June 26, 2014, 09:32:00 AM »

Offline MBunge

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during the time when the NBA's athleticism and skill is at an all time high.

Athleticism?  Yes.  Skill?  No way.

The reason why more teams don't play like the Spurs is that their players don't have the skills to do so.

Mike

Re: An honest letter to everyone about LeBron James
« Reply #98 on: June 26, 2014, 09:42:03 AM »

Offline knuckleballer

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James is already 27th all time for total points scored in NBA history.  He will likely finish next season in the top 20. 

He is 35th all time for total assists.  He should finish next season in the mid-20's. 

He is 151st all time in rebounds and will likely move up about 30 spots next year.

He is 45th all time in steals and will likely move up 10-15 spots next year. 

He is 158th all time in blocks and should move up another 10-15 spots next year.


Now granted steals and blocks weren't around in the very early days of the NBA, but he has still done all that and is still just 29 years old.  Now granted  he has a ton of miles on his legs, but he could reasonably finish his career in the top ten in points, steals, and assists; the top 30 in  rebounds; and the top 50 in blocks.  He is a 4 time MVP, 2 time champion, and by far the best and most versatile and athletic player in the league during the time when the NBA's athleticism and skill is at an all time high.

And despite all of that, he still acts like a whiny, little girl. 

I lost in the finals for the first time in three years, whhaahh.  I sat out the last 6 1/2 minutes of the championship game because my teammates stink, whhaaah.  Bosh and Wade are no longer good enough to play with me, whhaaah.  I'm leaving to find teammates that are worthy of me, whhaaah.

The guy makes me want to puke.

Re: An honest letter to everyone about LeBron James
« Reply #99 on: June 26, 2014, 09:46:24 AM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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"skill at an all-time high"?

more like complete opposite. it's deteriorated into a complete iso, pick n roll, pick n pop game. and even the picks being set are a joke as most players today don't have the skills to execute those properly.


Re: An honest letter to everyone about LeBron James
« Reply #100 on: June 26, 2014, 09:47:28 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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There's a lot of Abe Simpson going on in this thread.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: An honest letter to everyone about LeBron James
« Reply #101 on: June 26, 2014, 09:50:28 AM »

Offline Eja117

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I've seen enough of Lebron to know that I'm not watching a great player in any era. He's the Peyton Manning of the NBA. 

The great player of this era is Duncan. 

Lebron is sorta a spoiled brat footnote.

Re: An honest letter to everyone about LeBron James
« Reply #102 on: June 26, 2014, 09:55:28 AM »

Offline manl_lui

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TP for the effort.  I read the whole thing upon your request.

I just want to add that I had the privilege of watching Jordan play a lot in his prime, and I absolutely hated him.  I am now showing the same respect for Lebron James and his game by hating him with the same amount of passion.

I also had the privilege of watching Jordan play, but unlike you, I was a very very very young kid still in elementary moving onto middle school, so I didn't have a sense of "pride" in home town teams

it was Jordan who got an elementary school kid into basketball. It wasn't until when I started playing volleyball and going to high school where I start rooting for home town teams, cuz it's a sense of pride that you root for the team and city you grew up in

back on topic, I used to like Lebron, the Celtics were my favorite team, but LeBron was such a great player even when we faced him in the playoffs. I REALLY didn't like the way he handled the "decision" saga. That ultimately made me hate him until he won his 2nd chip. Yes, his 2nd chip not first. I think he regained my respect for him. 4 straight final appearance with 2 chips...that's pretty [dang] good in my opinion...

But I am still annoyed how he always do these "decisions"...just stick to one team!

Re: An honest letter to everyone about LeBron James
« Reply #103 on: June 26, 2014, 09:59:17 AM »

Offline Eja117

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What should I do?

Should I watch all the flopping and crying to refs?

Should I start doing that thing teens in malls are doing that they call Lebroning?

What should I do?

Should I accept that Bron is the single most likely example of a player unashamedly on peds across all major sports?

Should I realize that Duncan is a far more accomplished player than Bron?

What should I do?

Should I root for Kevin Durant who resigned with his small market team without a word?

Should I be ok with a player that needs to break tampering rules to say to his buddies "Heeeyyy. We could play togeeetthhherrr?" and then still couldn't win more than 2 championships?

What should I do?

Should I be ok with the fact that refs never call fouls on him ever but call fouls on anyone that breathes on a player from the Heat?

Should I be ok with the game's biggest choker?

What should I do?

Re: An honest letter to everyone about LeBron James
« Reply #104 on: June 26, 2014, 10:01:12 AM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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What should I do?

Should I watch all the flopping and crying to refs?

Should I start doing that thing teens in malls are doing that they call Lebroning?

What should I do?

Should I accept that Bron is the single most likely example of a player unashamedly on peds across all major sports?

Should I realize that Duncan is a far more accomplished player than Bron?

What should I do?

Should I root for Kevin Durant who resigned with his small market team without a word?

Should I be ok with a player that needs to break tampering rules to say to his buddies "Heeeyyy. We could play togeeetthhherrr?" and then still couldn't win more than 2 championships?

What should I do?

Should I be ok with the fact that refs never call fouls on him ever but call fouls on anyone that breathes on a player from the Heat?

Should I be ok with the game's biggest choker?

What should I do?

Sorry

http://youtu.be/9u0EL_u4nvw?t=43s