A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title

[ianboyextreme]

This thread is basically like if a Dallas fan posted:  "A core of Brandon Wright, OJ Mayo, Jae Crowder, Jared Cunningham and Darren Collison will win a title"

Or I guess if you're being extremely generous on the talent evaluation, it's like saying "A post-Duncan/Ginobili core of Parker-Green-Leonard-PF-Splitter will win a title"

Except that Parker-D.Green-Leonard-PF-Splitter is far superior to Rondo-Bradley-J.Green-Sully-Center.

Parker = Rondo
Green > Bradley
Leonard > Green
Splitter > Sully
PF = C

That Spurs comparison isn't terrible.  Of course, the key difference is that their star point guard is four years older and entering the tail end of his prime, while ours is just entering his prime.  D. Green, Leonard, and Splitter being far superior to Bradley, J. Green, and Sully is just completely off base.

No it isn't.

In fact...

Parker > Rondo
D. Green > Bradley
Leonard > J. Green
Splitter > Sully

... and it's easier to find a PF than a C so...

PF > C

Sure Splitter is older than Sully, but Splitter is better than Sully.

Sure Jeff Green is older than Leonard, but Leonard is better than Jeff Green.

La33y Bird takes the "i dont want to seem like a homer so im gonna take the exact opposite route and claim everyone on my team is way less talented than they actually are" strategy.

In reality, Rondo is one of the best players in the game when he sets his mind to it.

Avery Bradley is probably the best on ball defender in the league who is also a very effective cutter and above average shooter.

Jeff Green is a player with massive potential who just had a very successful season in which he played every game of the season just months after heart surgery.

Jared Sullinger is a young player with a very high basketball iq who can hit jumpers and in time develop a reliable post game but who also has the potential to be one of the best offensive rebounders in the game.

And lastly, our coach Doc Rivers is the best motivator and leader in the game.

One of the key points here is that all these players have the propensity to perform at a much higher level (to varying degrees) than they did this year.

Any notion that that team is a lottery team is silly and should be disregarded.

[Celtics4ever]

I don't think that team can win a title either.   A lot of your roster is small, Bradley and Sully especially.   You don't name a center, if he is a good one it helps but if he is a bad one ala Potapenko then this team struggles to make the playoffs.   Also, it is a team of potential and what if's but right now no one on it averages more than what 13 PPG a game.

 

[CoachBo]

Our team may no longer be a contender, but I'd put this blog's ability to conflate the talent of their favorite Celtics up against any other blog.

Going to be harder to out-exaggerate some of you than it is to guard LeBron.

Mind-boggling this thread made six pages. Absolutely mind-boggling.

[CoachBo]

Green is the only reliable scorer on this team. But defensively, this could be the best in the league.

A team of Rondo, Bradley, Green, SUlly and (insert random scrub... Bass?  Melo?) would be awful defensively.

"Even though he’s just a month shy of his 37th birthday, Garnett remains the key to the Celtics defense. Boston has allowed 96.2 points per 100 possessions with Garnett anchoring the back line this season, compared with 104.6 points-per-100 with him off the court. That’s like saying the Celtics are a bit better than the No. 1-ranked Indiana Pacers’ defense with KG, and only a tiny sliver better than the 22nd-ranked Toronto Raptors’ D without him."

Without Pierce and KG, this team is headed towards lotto-ville.

  You post numbers earlier in the season when the defense was 18 points better with KG than without him. The reason it dropped to 8 was because the defense was playing as well without KG as it was with him from January on.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/56110/life-without-kg-a-defensive-travesty-for-the-celtics

   "But as John Schuhmann of NBA.com first noted on Twitter a few weeks back, Garnett’s life-or-death impact on Boston’s D mysteriously vanished upon the return of Avery Bradley. Since Bradley’s January 2 debut, Boston has been almost exactly as good defensively regardless of whether Garnett plays or sits, and they’ve been a bit better offensively, per NBA.com."

Actually, the quote I posted was from immediately prior to the playoffs starting.  Is it inaccurate?

The quote you posted about Bradley was from February about a month into Bradley's debut.  His impact was short-lived during a winning streak.

As D.O.S pointed out in another thread:

"Of all players with at least his 574 total offensive possessions, Bradley ranked 183rd out of 187 qualifying players (the only ones worse: Rondo, Michael Beasley, Alexey Shved, and Ricky Rubio). Here's two more [dang]ing stats to consider: The Celtics were plus-26 when Bradley was off the court, but minus-44 when he was on it. And despite his individual defensive efforts, Boston's defensive rating actually remained nearly static with (100.3) or without (100.4) him. Bradley's postseason struggles contributed to the minus next to his mark. "

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4705075/report-card-avery-bradley-3 "


"The Celtics were minus-130 in the 1,946 minutes Garnett was on the bench this season, but plus-112 in his 2,022 minutes of court time. Dig deeper and Boston's defensive rating (points allowed per 100 possessions) was a staggering 104.6 with Garnett on the bench and a minuscule 96.2 when he was on the floor. Yes, even at an advanced age, Garnett remains so vital to this team and its success, particularly on the defensive end."

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4705058/report-card-kevin-garnett-4

Oops. Context is such a pesky thing, isn't it?

 

[Celtics18]

lol... Yogi/Celtics18 ...  lot of effort spent arguing whether Tony Parker is slightly better than Rondo (Parker is a back-to-back All-NBA 2nd team ... Rondo was All-NBA 3rd team last year) ... or whether Sully's ceiling will ever reach SPlitter's current level...

You're missing my overall point here.  You remove Pierce/KG from Boston (a 41 win also-ran) and claim the remaining core is a future title contender is almost as foolish as removing DUncan/Ginobili from the Spurs (a 58 win contender) and claiming the remaining core is a future title contender.

Thread is nonsense.  Remove KG and Pierce from Boston and you're lookin at a lotto ticket.

I don't think anyone (I'm certainly not) is suggesting that this team is a title contender as is without making some upgrades once Pierce and Garnett leave.  What I'm saying is that we have a good young core that needs some pieces added to it (like a center) to put us back into contention. 

I don't think that I'm missing your overall point at all.  I just don't agree with it.     

[Yogi]

lol... Yogi/Celtics18 ...  lot of effort spent arguing whether Tony Parker is slightly better than Rondo (Parker is a back-to-back All-NBA 2nd team ... Rondo was All-NBA 3rd team last year) ... or whether Sully's ceiling will ever reach SPlitter's current level...

You're missing my overall point here.  You remove Pierce/KG from Boston (a 41 win also-ran) and claim the remaining core is a future title contender is almost as foolish as removing DUncan/Ginobili from the Spurs (a 58 win contender) and claiming the remaining core is a future title contender.

Thread is nonsense.  Remove KG and Pierce from Boston and you're lookin at a lotto ticket.

Not at all

1.  I was responding to a very specific comparison between the 4 Spurs players and 4 Celtics.  This was not a part of the greater argument. 

2.  Ironically, while accusing us of missing the point, it is you who missed the OP's original point.  As pointed out earlier, the potential for these 4 being a championship core is in the future.  In 3 years time, Rondo and Green will be in their absolute prime like Parker is now.  Bradley and Sullinger will be 24 and 25 entering their prime years.  Considering that all 4 of those Celtics are young and coming off surgeries/injuries that held them back this season it is not unreasonable to expect they would improve a lot over the next three years.  If Fab can develop also in that time you're looking at potentially

MVP level player in Rondo
Lockdown 3 and D wing Bradley
20 5 5 Jeff Green
17 10 Sullinger
Shot blocking, long and mobile 7ft presence in Fab Melo (or Steven Adams).

This core is young, athletic, long, and can shoot.  Great balance of defense and offense.  Rondo, Green and Sully can dominate the post.  Add the further draft picks and cap space with the retirement of KG, Paul and Terry (also Bass who may or may not be extended) why can't this be a championship core in 3 years?  This is close to the best case scenario but we are talking about potential. 

[More Banners]

With an all-star 7' 20/10/2 machine in the center spot, yes.

Other than that, I'm not sure who gets the bucket when one is really needed.  Jeff Green is a 20pt guy, but not a #1 closer.  Rondo isn't the go-to scorer.  Sully's best points are mostly garbage buckets or jumpers; I wouldn't count on him to score in the post, and even the entry pass would be tough given his size, in those closing minutes against top defenses.

Who gets the ball with 2.2 to go in OT?

If the answer is Green or Rondo to score, we're pretenders.

That's Danny's conundrum, because that core with someone like Big Al could probably go pretty far, ECF, much like those Pistons teams.  And that might be the immediate future...

Until the stars align over Boston again...

[CelticConcourse]

Rondo - 20 points, 12 assists, 6 rebounds, 2 steals, legit MVP candidate
Bradley - 16 points, 4 rebounds, 2 steals, DPOY
Green - 25 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists, top-5 scorer in league
Sully - 15 points, 12 rebounds, ZBo-prime numbers
Center - 8 points, 8 rebounds, 1.5 blocks, not a scrub on either side

Then we'll have JET scoring an efficient 12 off the bench, and some other fillers with 5 to 6 points per game.

Then, we'd have to get lucky in the playoffs for a few games with 40-point performances from Green n' Rondo every so often. Rondo needs a triple-double every national TV game and to average 22/13/7/3 for the Playoffs.

It's possible. But we'd have to avoid injuries all year...

[LarBrd33]

Rondo - 20 points, 12 assists, 6 rebounds, 2 steals, legit MVP candidate
Bradley - 16 points, 4 rebounds, 2 steals, DPOY
Green - 25 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists, top-5 scorer in league
Sully - 15 points, 12 rebounds, ZBo-prime numbers
Center - 8 points, 8 rebounds, 1.5 blocks, not a scrub on either side

Then we'll have JET scoring an efficient 12 off the bench, and some other fillers with 5 to 6 points per game.

Then, we'd have to get lucky in the playoffs for a few games with 40-point performances from Green n' Rondo every so often. Rondo needs a triple-double every national TV game and to average 22/13/7/3 for the Playoffs.

It's possible. But we'd have to avoid injuries all year...

lol... nice

[CelticsFan9]

Rondo - 20 points, 12 assists, 6 rebounds, 2 steals, legit MVP candidate
Bradley - 16 points, 4 rebounds, 2 steals, DPOY
Green - 25 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists, top-5 scorer in league
Sully - 15 points, 12 rebounds, ZBo-prime numbers
Center - 8 points, 8 rebounds, 1.5 blocks, not a scrub on either side

Then we'll have JET scoring an efficient 12 off the bench, and some other fillers with 5 to 6 points per game.

Then, we'd have to get lucky in the playoffs for a few games with 40-point performances from Green n' Rondo every so often. Rondo needs a triple-double every national TV game and to average 22/13/7/3 for the Playoffs.

It's possible. But we'd have to avoid injuries all year...

You know, I actually managed that on 2K13.

It was a lot of fun.  Epke Udoh was my center.

[ianboyextreme]

Our team may no longer be a contender, but I'd put this blog's ability to conflate the talent of their favorite Celtics up against any other blog.

Going to be harder to out-exaggerate some of you than it is to guard LeBron.

Mind-boggling this thread made six pages. Absolutely mind-boggling.

Are you criticizing people for overrating players, or people for saying everyone on the team sucks? Im confused by your usage of conflate.

[ianboyextreme]

Rondo - 20 points, 12 assists, 6 rebounds, 2 steals, legit MVP candidate
Bradley - 16 points, 4 rebounds, 2 steals, DPOY
Green - 25 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists, top-5 scorer in league
Sully - 15 points, 12 rebounds, ZBo-prime numbers
Center - 8 points, 8 rebounds, 1.5 blocks, not a scrub on either side

Then we'll have JET scoring an efficient 12 off the bench, and some other fillers with 5 to 6 points per game.

Then, we'd have to get lucky in the playoffs for a few games with 40-point performances from Green n' Rondo every so often. Rondo needs a triple-double every national TV game and to average 22/13/7/3 for the Playoffs.

It's possible. But we'd have to avoid injuries all year...

lol... nice

Dude, you clearly disagree with the sentiment of this thread. Why keep posting? We dont need a sarcastic comment every page to remind us. Other people are providing those.

[Celtics4ever]

It's possible. But we'd have to avoid injuries all year...

Trouble is in the real world, they don't average those numbers.   No one averages more than  13 PPG in the regular season, this is not NBA live.

[celtic -_- pride]

i just want this thread to go away.

[kgainez]

lol... Yogi/Celtics18 ...  lot of effort spent arguing whether Tony Parker is slightly better than Rondo (Parker is a back-to-back All-NBA 2nd team ... Rondo was All-NBA 3rd team last year) ... or whether Sully's ceiling will ever reach SPlitter's current level...

You're missing my overall point here.  You remove Pierce/KG from Boston (a 41 win also-ran) and claim the remaining core is a future title contender is almost as foolish as removing DUncan/Ginobili from the Spurs (a 58 win contender) and claiming the remaining core is a future title contender.

Thread is nonsense.  Remove KG and Pierce from Boston and you're lookin at a lotto ticket.

Not at all

1.  I was responding to a very specific comparison between the 4 Spurs players and 4 Celtics.  This was not a part of the greater argument. 

2.  Ironically, while accusing us of missing the point, it is you who missed the OP's original point.  As pointed out earlier, the potential for these 4 being a championship core is in the future.  In 3 years time, Rondo and Green will be in their absolute prime like Parker is now.  Bradley and Sullinger will be 24 and 25 entering their prime years.  Considering that all 4 of those Celtics are young and coming off surgeries/injuries that held them back this season it is not unreasonable to expect they would improve a lot over the next three years.  If Fab can develop also in that time you're looking at potentially

MVP level player in Rondo
Lockdown 3 and D wing Bradley
20 5 5 Jeff Green
17 10 Sullinger
Shot blocking, long and mobile 7ft presence in Fab Melo (or Steven Adams).

This core is young, athletic, long, and can shoot.  Great balance of defense and offense.  Rondo, Green and Sully can dominate the post.  Add the further draft picks and cap space with the retirement of KG, Paul and Terry (also Bass who may or may not be extended) why can't this be a championship core in 3 years?  This is close to the best case scenario but we are talking about potential.

thank you
and we aren't even talking about playoffs
i dont think sully gets to 17ppg, but even if we get a 7footer who can score, i'm not sure why ppl are so pessimistic.

with the exception of injuries, you're asking everyone to do what they did with MINOR developments (JG and his left, AB and his long distance which was excellent season before last, Rondo and his long distance which was obviously developing, Sully catch 2 - 3 more rebounds per game than he did in january 2013).

at worst, you need a center who can run the floor. that's it...i'd even take a deandre jordan on that team.

only thing i agree with is the team is a bit small, but again, you get a 7 footer and hope rondo is still fast, i'm not sure there's too many problems.