Author Topic: The Jeff Green thread  (Read 70703 times)

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Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #510 on: April 05, 2013, 04:17:59 PM »

Offline tony3

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Greens emergence were a couple of different things.

1.  Yes, Rondo did limit Green.  With Rondo on the court (95% of the time), Green was relegated to spot up shooter.  Green can shoot, but he's not a spot up shooter.  He's a slasher who can shoot.  On top of this, a lot of Greens' shots consisted of Rondo dribbling at the top of the key for 20 of the 24 seconds, then frantically passing it to Green who had to take a desperation, fadeaway, contested, 3 pointer.  It's impossible to get into a rhythm and develop confidence like that.  This is what the same problem with Terry was.  Rondo's ball hogging completely wasted their talents.

2.  Green is getting healthier.  He is STILL not at 100% and has said so in interviews.  I remember in the commentary of a game in the beginning of March (Heat??) it was said how Green's doctor said he wouldn't be able to play basketball until March of this year.  Well guess when Green started going completely berserk?  March.  The beginning of the year he was still trying to recover.  Now he can focus more on playing.

3.  Fast break opportunities.  Every single time we got a rebound, the ball would immediately go to Rondo, which in essence killed the fast break before it even started most of the time.  Green gets a couple buckets or an assist or two a night just from outlets on the fast break.  Those opportunities weren't there with Rondo who single handedly killed our fast break.

4.  Confidence.  This ties into his health, and the shots he's getting, but he obviously feels much more comfortable now.  He's getting good looks and that in turn is helping him out on his 3 point range.

5.  Hard work.  His game has improved within the course of the season.  He is shooting 3s not just from the corner now.  He's added an impressive pull up mid range jumper which helps when defenders over commit to protecting the rim, and his left hand has improved a lot and he's added a cross over. 

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #511 on: April 05, 2013, 05:13:23 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I still say ...Green was able to finally show what he has at the expense of Sully and Rondo being out.

The ball movement between players minus rondo is so much more dramatic.  Rondo would walk up court, stand there and bounce the ball till one of his favorite targets got free for a shot....PP , RAY ALLEN, KG or BASS ....if it was a miss.. END of play.no rebounds on offense ,nothing but one pass and out with a usual jumper.  small suck ball.

I like the ball movement without Rondo .  It allows more people ...ie Jeff Green to take over more control and make a play than stand around waiting on Rondo to do something. This hesitation on Rondos parts allows the defense to lock down to easy...too predictable.

  Rondo walked the ball down on occasion because he wanted to slow the pace of the game but more often because there was no fast break opportunity on offense. The Celts made quite an effort to rush up court on offense right after Rondo was injured. Rondo's teammates showed no such sense of urgency when he was playing.

I think this was something that was on both Rondo, the other players, and the coaches.  And I think it had more to do with Rondo hitting the defensive boards, and then the habit that everyone got into of getting the ball to Rondo, no matter what.

If you want to run, you need to get the ball up court fast with a pass.  That means you either need Rondo leaking out, or you need to bypass the PG and get it to someone else leaking out.

But, when Rondo was playing, they would look off the outlet pass, in order to get it to Rondo, and by that time, it was too late to get numbers.

  I think that the best way for the Celts to start the break was to get Rondo the ball in the open court. Every time there was a rebound Rondo would head up court barking for a pass. What seemed to happen a lot was that a player would get a rebound and look for Rondo. If the pass was there he'd make it, if the pass wasn't there he'd stand where he was with the ball and wait for Rondo to come back for the pass.

  What should have happened (and what's happened since) is that if (for instance) Green gets a rebound and looks for Rondo. If Rondo's covered he should dribble out of the pack and look for either an open Rondo or another player running up court. Part of it probably was, as everyone in the organization was saying, the players being just too dependent on Rondo doing so much. It's not that Rondo was stopping the break, not being able to get the ball to Rondo was stopping the break.

  Edit: This seems to be something of a rehash of Nick's post, which I failed to read before I responded to what Chris said.

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #512 on: April 05, 2013, 07:30:24 PM »

Offline kgainez

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Greens emergence were a couple of different things.

1.  Yes, Rondo did limit Green.  With Rondo on the court (95% of the time), Green was relegated to spot up shooter.  Green can shoot, but he's not a spot up shooter.  He's a slasher who can shoot.  On top of this, a lot of Greens' shots consisted of Rondo dribbling at the top of the key for 20 of the 24 seconds, then frantically passing it to Green who had to take a desperation, fadeaway, contested, 3 pointer.  It's impossible to get into a rhythm and develop confidence like that.  This is what the same problem with Terry was.  Rondo's ball hogging completely wasted their talents.

2.  Green is getting healthier.  He is STILL not at 100% and has said so in interviews.  I remember in the commentary of a game in the beginning of March (Heat??) it was said how Green's doctor said he wouldn't be able to play basketball until March of this year.  Well guess when Green started going completely berserk?  March.  The beginning of the year he was still trying to recover.  Now he can focus more on playing.

3.  Fast break opportunities.  Every single time we got a rebound, the ball would immediately go to Rondo, which in essence killed the fast break before it even started most of the time.  Green gets a couple buckets or an assist or two a night just from outlets on the fast break.  Those opportunities weren't there with Rondo who single handedly killed our fast break.

4.  Confidence.  This ties into his health, and the shots he's getting, but he obviously feels much more comfortable now.  He's getting good looks and that in turn is helping him out on his 3 point range.

5.  Hard work.  His game has improved within the course of the season.  He is shooting 3s not just from the corner now.  He's added an impressive pull up mid range jumper which helps when defenders over commit to protecting the rim, and his left hand has improved a lot and he's added a cross over.

I agree. I have no clue how these things can be argued top to bottom.
One of the contributions to the growth of Jeff Greens play was at the expense of Rondo, definitely. I mean, look at the pre-season games. There are several ways you can analyze what happened between then and what happened the beginning of the season.

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #513 on: April 06, 2013, 04:17:47 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Greens emergence were a couple of different things.

1.  Yes, Rondo did limit Green.  With Rondo on the court (95% of the time), Green was relegated to spot up shooter.  Green can shoot, but he's not a spot up shooter.  He's a slasher who can shoot.  On top of this, a lot of Greens' shots consisted of Rondo dribbling at the top of the key for 20 of the 24 seconds, then frantically passing it to Green who had to take a desperation, fadeaway, contested, 3 pointer.  It's impossible to get into a rhythm and develop confidence like that.  This is what the same problem with Terry was.  Rondo's ball hogging completely wasted their talents.

2.  Green is getting healthier.  He is STILL not at 100% and has said so in interviews.  I remember in the commentary of a game in the beginning of March (Heat??) it was said how Green's doctor said he wouldn't be able to play basketball until March of this year.  Well guess when Green started going completely berserk?  March.  The beginning of the year he was still trying to recover.  Now he can focus more on playing.

3.  Fast break opportunities.  Every single time we got a rebound, the ball would immediately go to Rondo, which in essence killed the fast break before it even started most of the time.  Green gets a couple buckets or an assist or two a night just from outlets on the fast break.  Those opportunities weren't there with Rondo who single handedly killed our fast break.

4.  Confidence.  This ties into his health, and the shots he's getting, but he obviously feels much more comfortable now.  He's getting good looks and that in turn is helping him out on his 3 point range.

5.  Hard work.  His game has improved within the course of the season.  He is shooting 3s not just from the corner now.  He's added an impressive pull up mid range jumper which helps when defenders over commit to protecting the rim, and his left hand has improved a lot and he's added a cross over.

I agree. I have no clue how these things can be argued top to bottom.
One of the contributions to the growth of Jeff Greens play was at the expense of Rondo, definitely. I mean, look at the pre-season games. There are several ways you can analyze what happened between then and what happened the beginning of the season.

  I'll take a crack at the first one. It's complete nonsense. Green probably didn't do as much driving earlier in the season because he wasn't healthy but he was never relegated to being a spot up shooter. For starters I compared his assist total in November to Feb/Mar, the percentages of assisted baskets were pretty close. Also, of Green's 28 assisted baskets in Nov, 13 of them came within 6 feet of the rim, so in 15 games he averaged *1* assisted jump shot a game. Hardly someone who was only used as a spot up shooter.

  Also consider Terry. His best offensive month of the season came in November playing next to Rondo. His play dipped in Dec/Jan when, according to Danny, he was struggling with a knee injury. This is something else the Rondo detractors call "Terry playing poorly because Rondo was hogging the ball". Again, clearly nonsense.

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #514 on: April 06, 2013, 07:30:06 AM »

Offline playdream

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Greens emergence were a couple of different things.

1.  Yes, Rondo did limit Green.  With Rondo on the court (95% of the time), Green was relegated to spot up shooter.  Green can shoot, but he's not a spot up shooter.  He's a slasher who can shoot.  On top of this, a lot of Greens' shots consisted of Rondo dribbling at the top of the key for 20 of the 24 seconds, then frantically passing it to Green who had to take a desperation, fadeaway, contested, 3 pointer.  It's impossible to get into a rhythm and develop confidence like that.  This is what the same problem with Terry was.  Rondo's ball hogging completely wasted their talents.

2.  Green is getting healthier.  He is STILL not at 100% and has said so in interviews.  I remember in the commentary of a game in the beginning of March (Heat??) it was said how Green's doctor said he wouldn't be able to play basketball until March of this year.  Well guess when Green started going completely berserk?  March.  The beginning of the year he was still trying to recover.  Now he can focus more on playing.

3.  Fast break opportunities.  Every single time we got a rebound, the ball would immediately go to Rondo, which in essence killed the fast break before it even started most of the time.  Green gets a couple buckets or an assist or two a night just from outlets on the fast break.  Those opportunities weren't there with Rondo who single handedly killed our fast break.

4.  Confidence.  This ties into his health, and the shots he's getting, but he obviously feels much more comfortable now.  He's getting good looks and that in turn is helping him out on his 3 point range.

5.  Hard work.  His game has improved within the course of the season.  He is shooting 3s not just from the corner now.  He's added an impressive pull up mid range jumper which helps when defenders over commit to protecting the rim, and his left hand has improved a lot and he's added a cross over.

I agree. I have no clue how these things can be argued top to bottom.
One of the contributions to the growth of Jeff Greens play was at the expense of Rondo, definitely. I mean, look at the pre-season games. There are several ways you can analyze what happened between then and what happened the beginning of the season.

  I'll take a crack at the first one. It's complete nonsense. Green probably didn't do as much driving earlier in the season because he wasn't healthy but he was never relegated to being a spot up shooter. For starters I compared his assist total in November to Feb/Mar, the percentages of assisted baskets were pretty close. Also, of Green's 28 assisted baskets in Nov, 13 of them came within 6 feet of the rim, so in 15 games he averaged *1* assisted jump shot a game. Hardly someone who was only used as a spot up shooter.

  Also consider Terry. His best offensive month of the season came in November playing next to Rondo. His play dipped in Dec/Jan when, according to Danny, he was struggling with a knee injury. This is something else the Rondo detractors call "Terry playing poorly because Rondo was hogging the ball". Again, clearly nonsense.
but he did hog the ball

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #515 on: April 06, 2013, 10:39:38 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Greens emergence were a couple of different things.

1.  Yes, Rondo did limit Green.  With Rondo on the court (95% of the time), Green was relegated to spot up shooter.  Green can shoot, but he's not a spot up shooter.  He's a slasher who can shoot.  On top of this, a lot of Greens' shots consisted of Rondo dribbling at the top of the key for 20 of the 24 seconds, then frantically passing it to Green who had to take a desperation, fadeaway, contested, 3 pointer.  It's impossible to get into a rhythm and develop confidence like that.  This is what the same problem with Terry was.  Rondo's ball hogging completely wasted their talents.

2.  Green is getting healthier.  He is STILL not at 100% and has said so in interviews.  I remember in the commentary of a game in the beginning of March (Heat??) it was said how Green's doctor said he wouldn't be able to play basketball until March of this year.  Well guess when Green started going completely berserk?  March.  The beginning of the year he was still trying to recover.  Now he can focus more on playing.

3.  Fast break opportunities.  Every single time we got a rebound, the ball would immediately go to Rondo, which in essence killed the fast break before it even started most of the time.  Green gets a couple buckets or an assist or two a night just from outlets on the fast break.  Those opportunities weren't there with Rondo who single handedly killed our fast break.

4.  Confidence.  This ties into his health, and the shots he's getting, but he obviously feels much more comfortable now.  He's getting good looks and that in turn is helping him out on his 3 point range.

5.  Hard work.  His game has improved within the course of the season.  He is shooting 3s not just from the corner now.  He's added an impressive pull up mid range jumper which helps when defenders over commit to protecting the rim, and his left hand has improved a lot and he's added a cross over.

I agree. I have no clue how these things can be argued top to bottom.
One of the contributions to the growth of Jeff Greens play was at the expense of Rondo, definitely. I mean, look at the pre-season games. There are several ways you can analyze what happened between then and what happened the beginning of the season.

  I'll take a crack at the first one. It's complete nonsense. Green probably didn't do as much driving earlier in the season because he wasn't healthy but he was never relegated to being a spot up shooter. For starters I compared his assist total in November to Feb/Mar, the percentages of assisted baskets were pretty close. Also, of Green's 28 assisted baskets in Nov, 13 of them came within 6 feet of the rim, so in 15 games he averaged *1* assisted jump shot a game. Hardly someone who was only used as a spot up shooter.

  Also consider Terry. His best offensive month of the season came in November playing next to Rondo. His play dipped in Dec/Jan when, according to Danny, he was struggling with a knee injury. This is something else the Rondo detractors call "Terry playing poorly because Rondo was hogging the ball". Again, clearly nonsense.
but he did hog the ball

  He played his role in the offense. He's not the only player in the league that handles the ball a lot. The goal of the team is to score points, not to make sure everyone gets their turn at handling the ball.

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #516 on: April 06, 2013, 11:54:03 AM »

Offline esel1000

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Not a huge bleacher report guy but I really do like this article about Green.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1593356-why-its-officially-time-to-believe-in-jeff-greens-long-term-ceiling-for-boston

The stats really are impressive

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #517 on: May 04, 2013, 01:17:36 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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I just realized who Jeff really reminds me of.

Tim Duncan.

Especially when he's just waiting there with the ball, looking around and doing nothing.
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: The Jeff Green thread
« Reply #518 on: May 13, 2013, 10:48:25 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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For the sake of continuity, it's merge-thread time!

I'm warning you all. Jeff Green (,under the assumption that he remains on the team past this offseason... but I suppose it will still apply on another team) he will have an extremely subpar start to the season. I do not expect him to have consistent scoring, consistent defense, consistent rebounding, or anything for the first few months until at least December. It's been a trend throughout his entire career that as the season progresses, he gets better.

Don't act shocked and beg for a trade when you see him averaging 20% on three-pointers or three rebounds a game... he will improve, undoubtedly. Jeff Green is a Celtic and (if we make the Playoffs next season, and he is still on the team) he will dominate the postseason. He'll have his fair share of 28-point games and will seem like a superstar until early 2014-2015 where "we" start regretting everything again!

Yeah!!
Harharhargrhg!
Blagh!
Mhgumguugmhmgu!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For example, taking the results of Jeff's four complete seasons (2007-08, 2008-09, 2009-10, 2012-13), I divided his games into four quartiles: first 20 games, second 20 games, third 20 games, rest of games (20, 18, 22, 21). I found that his scoring averages for each quartile respectively were:

12.0375 -> 12.2625 -> 14.7625 -> 15.2114

Juding solely from data collected in the most recent season, 2012-13, we get:

9.7500 -> 9.2500 -> 14.1500 -> 17.3333

Sure seems like a positive correlation to me! :)
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: The Jeff Green thread
« Reply #519 on: May 13, 2013, 11:03:55 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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green might not go one hun after his surgery
he might be afraid of a bow to his chest..anything.
its like starting over for him.dont give up on him yet fam

*sippin*

Re: The Jeff Green thread
« Reply #520 on: May 14, 2013, 03:17:47 PM »

Offline LB3533

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If Danny is smart he should try and re-work Jeff's contract and give Jeff an extension at a reasonable price. Or else, the Celtics could possibly lose control over Green's contract after 2 seasons.