Author Topic: Supposed rumor between NO and BOS  (Read 23059 times)

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Re: Supposed rumor between NO and BOS
« Reply #75 on: May 21, 2013, 04:40:14 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Gordon has about 25-30 lbs on Avery. That does make a difference.


It does help him finish through contact and get to the line. But I don't think it helps him defensively, biggers SGs can still post Gordon up and/or shoot over him.

Not to sidetrack things but this raises an interesting question. At some point, is Avery going to have to decide whether he wants to bulk up and guard SGs primarily, or stay smaller and guard mostly PGs?


Re: Supposed rumor between NO and BOS
« Reply #76 on: May 21, 2013, 04:41:46 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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Gordon has about 25-30 lbs on Avery. That does make a difference.


It does help him finish through contact and get to the line. But I don't think it helps him defensively, biggers SGs can still post Gordon up and/or shoot over him.

Not to sidetrack things but this raises an interesting question. At some point, is Avery going to have to decide whether he wants to bulk up and guard SGs primarily, or stay smaller and guard mostly PGs?

I think it's a legit question.
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Re: Supposed rumor between NO and BOS
« Reply #77 on: May 21, 2013, 04:44:36 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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Gordon has about 25-30 lbs on Avery. That does make a difference.


It does help him finish through contact and get to the line. But I don't think it helps him defensively, biggers SGs can still post Gordon up and/or shoot over him.

Not to sidetrack things but this raises an interesting question. At some point, is Avery going to have to decide whether he wants to bulk up and guard SGs primarily, or stay smaller and guard mostly PGs?

All signs point to the latter
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Re: Supposed rumor between NO and BOS
« Reply #78 on: May 21, 2013, 04:48:15 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Wait - Avery Bradley (6' 2")  is an undersized SG?

But Eric Gordon (6' 2") is not?

6'3", 215 pounds vs 6'2", 180 pounds.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3431/eric-gordon

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/4240/avery-bradley

I can understand the reluctance to invest in Gordon. But, he has averaged 20 points for two seasons.

They both measured 6' 2" without shoes at the combine.  They both measured 6' 3.25" with shoes.

Yes, Gordon is heavier - and has longer arms.   

But Avery is still a much, MUCH better defender with a very real impact on the defensive efficiency of his team that shows up on the scoreboard in a big way.   And while Avery has not been a highly efficient scorer this last year, he didn't generally hurt his team by taking a ton of low-efficiency shots.

Gordon is a good defender, but nothing special.  And he's gone from being a somewhat decent scorer his first couple of seasons to a consistently low-efficiency volume scorer the last 4 years --- and that hurts your team.

And, again, the difference in salary cap hit over the next couple of years - that's huge.  That money could be used in MUCH better ways.
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Re: Supposed rumor between NO and BOS
« Reply #79 on: May 21, 2013, 05:09:41 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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As others have said, Gordon has performed at a near all-star level for two seasons. Bradley has done it for about a month total, which indicates more of a fluke than anything. When we had to rely more on Bradley this season, he disappointed us big time.

He significantly hurt us on offense with his poor ball handling, terrible passing, mediocre shooting, and innability to finish at the rim.

As for his defense, Felton absolutely destroyed him in the Knicks series. Enough said.

Gordon is a proven scorer and ball handler with decent defense. The celtics are in desperate need of offensive help. He would be money well spent. Ainge always looks down the road. I believe he already knows he doesn't want to give Bradley a long term deal when his current contract is up.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2013, 05:16:04 PM by hpantazo »

Re: Supposed rumor between NO and BOS
« Reply #80 on: May 21, 2013, 05:17:43 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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Also as Rondo's offensive role has increased his defense has steadily declined. Bringing in a playmaker like Gordon to help share the offensive of load should help rondo's defense. While rondos defense isn't like Bradleys it can still be elite as we have seen in the past.


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Re: Supposed rumor between NO and BOS
« Reply #81 on: May 21, 2013, 05:23:43 PM »

Offline jay

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To me it simple as:

Can Rondo and Gordon get along?

Re: Supposed rumor between NO and BOS
« Reply #82 on: May 21, 2013, 05:25:56 PM »

Offline get_banners

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To me it simple as:

Can Rondo and Gordon get along?

I think its even simpler: can Gordon stay healthy? The track record suggests a resounding no. As such, I wouldn't touch this trade with a 50 foot pole.

Re: Supposed rumor between NO and BOS
« Reply #83 on: May 21, 2013, 05:33:37 PM »

Offline Sketch5

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There must be more to it, or more coming back to Boston then just Gordon.

I mean we'd be doing NO a favor by freeing up cap space and taking Gordon off there hands. Plus Gordon 13 mill to PP and AB at 18 seems like an other play could be involved. Maybe Lopez, we could even give them Melo to be nice. Or Austin?

I wouldn't do this unless we got NO's pick a long with Gordon. If he'd been healthy this last couple years I'd say its a steal, but I'd rather deal with PP's turn overs then a guy who plays half a season.


Re: Supposed rumor between NO and BOS
« Reply #84 on: May 21, 2013, 05:34:23 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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To me it simple as:

Can Rondo and Gordon get along?

I think its even simpler: can Gordon stay healthy? The track record suggests a resounding no. As such, I wouldn't touch this trade with a 50 foot pole.

Can Bradley stay "healthy"?

2010-11: 31/82 games (rookie year, so a number of these are DNP-CD)
2011-12: 64/66 games
2012-13: 50/82 games

145 games played out of a possible 230, or 63% available

Gordon:

2008-09: 78/82 games
2009-10: 62/82 games
2010-11: 56/82 games
2011-12: 9/66 games
2012-13: 42/82 games

247 games played out of a possible 394, or 62.7% available
« Last Edit: May 21, 2013, 05:43:33 PM by Lucky17 »
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Re: Supposed rumor between NO and BOS
« Reply #85 on: May 21, 2013, 05:41:19 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Gordon has about 25-30 lbs on Avery. That does make a difference.


It does help him finish through contact and get to the line. But I don't think it helps him defensively, biggers SGs can still post Gordon up and/or shoot over him.

Not to sidetrack things but this raises an interesting question. At some point, is Avery going to have to decide whether he wants to bulk up and guard SGs primarily, or stay smaller and guard mostly PGs?

Ainge in an interview did say that Bradley was playing at about less pounds than he was last year due to his inability to workout following double shoulder surgery.

Very interested to see how Bradley looks coming into training camp, which will be the first training camp of his career.

Re: Supposed rumor between NO and BOS
« Reply #86 on: May 21, 2013, 05:45:49 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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To me it simple as:

Can Rondo and Gordon get along?

I think its even simpler: can Gordon stay healthy? The track record suggests a resounding no. As such, I wouldn't touch this trade with a 50 foot pole.

Can Bradley stay "healthy"?

2010-11: 31/82 games (rookie year, so a number of these are DNP-CD)
2011-12: 64/66 games
2012-13: 50/82 games

145 games played out of a possible 230, or 63% available

Gordon:

2008-09: 78/82 games
2009-10: 62/82 games
2010-11: 56/82 games
2011-12: 9/66 games
2012-13: 42/82 games

247 games played out of a possible 394, or 62.7% available

This is why stats are bad.
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Re: Supposed rumor between NO and BOS
« Reply #87 on: May 21, 2013, 05:47:12 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Gordon has about 25-30 lbs on Avery. That does make a difference.


It does help him finish through contact and get to the line. But I don't think it helps him defensively, biggers SGs can still post Gordon up and/or shoot over him.

Not to sidetrack things but this raises an interesting question. At some point, is Avery going to have to decide whether he wants to bulk up and guard SGs primarily, or stay smaller and guard mostly PGs?

Ainge in an interview did say that Bradley was playing at about less pounds than he was last year due to his inability to workout following double shoulder surgery.

Very interested to see how Bradley looks coming into training camp, which will be the first training camp of his career.

If he can get stronger without getting too much heavier or slower, that would at least help him against the Feltons and Westbrooks of the world.

Re: Supposed rumor between NO and BOS
« Reply #88 on: May 21, 2013, 05:49:34 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Gordon has about 25-30 lbs on Avery. That does make a difference.


It does help him finish through contact and get to the line. But I don't think it helps him defensively, biggers SGs can still post Gordon up and/or shoot over him.

Not to sidetrack things but this raises an interesting question. At some point, is Avery going to have to decide whether he wants to bulk up and guard SGs primarily, or stay smaller and guard mostly PGs?

Ainge in an interview did say that Bradley was playing at about less pounds than he was last year due to his inability to workout following double shoulder surgery.

Very interested to see how Bradley looks coming into training camp, which will be the first training camp of his career.

If he can get stronger without getting too much heavier or slower, that would at least help him against the Feltons and Westbrooks of the world.
He's played Westbrook pretty well in the past.

But the big thing is if Bradley is a health risk, he's a health risk who hasn't been given a massive contract like Gordon.

Re: Supposed rumor between NO and BOS
« Reply #89 on: May 21, 2013, 05:53:24 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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As others have said, Gordon has performed at a near all-star level for two seasons. Bradley has done it for about a month total, which indicates more of a fluke than anything. When we had to rely more on Bradley this season, he disappointed us big time.

He significantly hurt us on offense with his poor ball handling, terrible passing, mediocre shooting, and innability to finish at the rim.

As for his defense, Felton absolutely destroyed him in the Knicks series. Enough said.

Gordon is a proven scorer and ball handler with decent defense. The celtics are in desperate need of offensive help. He would be money well spent. Ainge always looks down the road. I believe he already knows he doesn't want to give Bradley a long term deal when his current contract is up.

Gordon performed at a 'near' all star level ... when?

He had a good rookie season.   Good enough to deserve being in the ROY conversation.   That's not necessarily 'near all star'.

His sophmore season was almost as good as his first season.

But EVERY SINGLE YEAR he has _declined_ in shooting efficiency.   Yes, he has managed do score a decent volume of points.   He broke 20ppg in each of 2011 & 2012.   But he only did so by launching a ton of shots.

The fact that his efficiency has declined steadily, every year after his first season is an indicator that NBA defenses have figured out how to defend him - and that he hasn't adjusted or is not able to adjust.

Let me repeat:  Gordon's shooting efficiency has declined _steadily_ each year, every year  he's been in the NBA.  And this last year it was NO BETTER THAN BRADLEY'S!!!

You want to toss almost $45M over the next three years at this guy?

That's insane.

It's entirely possible that Bradley, too, has been 'figured out' defensively by opposing teams.  Or that his offense will not recover from this year's troubles.   But the sample sizes on him (and the larger context and his youth) are such that there is plenty of reason for optimism that his offense will be at least better than it was this last year.

And Bradley is cheap and still under rookie contract control.

Looking at Felton's bursty scoring output as some sort of sign that Bradley's defense was somehow getting ripped in the NYK series is just wrong.   Defense isn't measured by how many points one player scored.  It's measured by how many that player's team scores.

The fact is, we lost that series because out team as a whole couldn't shoot.  Not because of our defense.   Overall, the Knicks' high scoring offense was held in check.   

And of our regular rotation players, Bradley's defensive rating in the series was second only to KG's on our team.

As I've said elsewhere, I'm not opposed to trading either Pierce or Bradley or both for the right deal(s).

But this proposed deal is just plain awful and makes no sense.    Eric Gordon is not the answer.
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