Author Topic: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)  (Read 24186 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #75 on: March 04, 2013, 05:02:10 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

  • NCE
  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15402
  • Tommy Points: 2785
So when Chris Paul's team is sitting home EARLY this post-season (again), I wonder how high he will rank, then.

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #76 on: March 04, 2013, 05:06:47 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6162
  • Tommy Points: 383
  • Jeff Green
So when Chris Paul's team is sitting home EARLY this post-season (again), I wonder how high he will rank, then.

3rd probably.
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #77 on: March 04, 2013, 05:09:45 PM »

Offline celtsfan84

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1182
  • Tommy Points: 80
So when Chris Paul's team is sitting home EARLY this post-season (again), I wonder how high he will rank, then.

Maybe Mario Chalmers should be 1st on the list, as defending NBA champion and having a high chance of repeating.  Derek Fisher second, perhaps?  Tony Parker third?

Or maybe basketball isn't an individual sport?  How high would you have ranked KG amongst power forwards before he joined Boston?  I guess you would've ranked him below Rasheed?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 05:19:13 PM by celtsfan84 »

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #78 on: March 04, 2013, 05:20:46 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

  • NCE
  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15402
  • Tommy Points: 2785
Just a bunch of mess.

Sports Journalism is becoming just as dysfunctional as...

......better not say it.

If I get political, that opens up a whole other can of worms.

If you are going to draft an article like this, you should quantify it....break it down...."Bill Simmons" it....


At the end of the day, Rajon Rondo and CP3 are neck and neck...ok, give CP3 some advantage...I do love his game...he can shoot......Rondo has become a better shooter, though.


...But our Rajon Rondo is NOT "just" the 6th best PG in the league...no way.

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #79 on: March 04, 2013, 05:27:56 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

  • NCE
  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15402
  • Tommy Points: 2785
So when Chris Paul's team is sitting home EARLY this post-season (again), I wonder how high he will rank, then.

Maybe Mario Chalmers should be 1st on the list, as defending NBA champion and having a high chance of repeating.  Derek Fisher second, perhaps?  Tony Parker third?

Or maybe basketball isn't an individual sport?  How high would you have ranked KG amongst power forwards before he joined Boston?  I guess you would've ranked him below Rasheed?

You ask some very interesting questions...

I guess KG was just a dream to me before he joined BOS...I was shocked to see on the news way back in Summer of 2007 that BOS had acquired him.

Some players you just admire from afar...not knowing how good they "Really" are.

If I'm reading you correctly, then perhaps SI doesn't appreciate Rondo like we do?

Or do we "over-value" him?....to answer that question, I guess several million NBA fans who voted for Rondo to start in the East are dumb, too....

...and we know that is not the case.

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #80 on: March 04, 2013, 05:31:02 PM »

Offline Meadowlark_Scal

  • NCE
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8193
  • Tommy Points: 670
  • You say when......
IF Rondo got the calls derrick rose did....rondo gets beaten everytime he goes in for a layup..no calls....is westbrook a pg...not really..he is more of a 2 guard..he never passes....

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #81 on: March 04, 2013, 05:39:41 PM »

Offline celtsfan84

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1182
  • Tommy Points: 80
Or do we "over-value" him?....to answer that question, I guess several million NBA fans who voted for Rondo to start in the East are dumb, too....

...and we know that is not the case.

I wouldn't really use All-Star voting to judge an NBA player's relative skill.

With that said, Chris Paul received more votes than Rondo this year and double last year.  Derrick Rose received almost triple Rondo's votes last year and wasn't eligible this year.

So by that flawed metric, he'd be third, which is around where I'd rank him actually.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 05:45:46 PM by celtsfan84 »

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #82 on: March 04, 2013, 05:40:44 PM »

Offline CelticsFan9

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1571
  • Tommy Points: 116
  • Everyone's excited for the new era.
My list goes like this:

Paul (head and shoulders above all)
Rose (when healthy - not sure what he'll look like post-injury)
Rondo (again, when healthy - if he spends his rehab working on that jumper, he could possibly move up)
Westbrook (I hate this guy a lot, but I cannot deny his elite scoring prowess; just a freak of nature)
Parker (the MVP this year;  San Antonio is going to struggle with him out for a month)
Curry (just keeps improving; one of the main reasons for Golden State's emergence)
Irving (just an incredible talent; hopefully he can get some help in Cleveland)
Holiday (love this guy's game; unfortunate Bynum is out, because I thought those two would be great)
Lillard (has taken the league by storm with his brilliance and maturity beyond his years)
Williams (has really disappointed me this year, but is still capable of being a force)

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #83 on: March 04, 2013, 05:41:53 PM »

Offline celtsfan84

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1182
  • Tommy Points: 80
My list goes like this:

Paul (head and shoulders above all)
Rose (when healthy - not sure what he'll look like post-injury)
Rondo (again, when healthy - if he spends his rehab working on that jumper, he could possibly move up)
Westbrook (I hate this guy a lot, but I cannot deny his elite scoring prowess; just a freak of nature)
Parker (the MVP this year;  San Antonio is going to struggle with him out for a month)
Curry (just keeps improving; one of the main reasons for Golden State's emergence)
Irving (just an incredible talent; hopefully he can get some help in Cleveland)
Holiday (love this guy's game; unfortunate Bynum is out, because I thought those two would be great)
Lillard (has taken the league by storm with his brilliance and maturity beyond his years)
Williams (has really disappointed me this year, but is still capable of being a force)

I'm pretty much in agreement with your list.  I'd flip Parker for Westbrook and I haven't seen enough of Lillard to make a judgment.  Otherwise, well played, Sir.

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #84 on: March 04, 2013, 05:44:29 PM »

Offline ejk3489

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2233
  • Tommy Points: 215
6th seems about right to me.  And depending how next year goes, I could see him drop to 7th or 8th...  Lots of young point guards coming up and D-Will is due for a bounce-back season.

Also, I have a hard time believing Rondo will ever average 11+ assists again... not now that it's been pretty much proven the stats were inflated in an offensive system that didn't really work.

   Not only has it not been proven that Rondo's stats were inflated, it hasn't been shown that the offensive system didn't work. Nash and Magic and Stockton each had 5-7 11+ assist seasons when they were older than Rondo so it probably isn't as unlikely as you think. And, for the record, those guys were playing in offensive systems that led to high assist totals for them.

I think the point of the comment was that since the Celtics offense hasn't suffered with him out, and that there's more ball-sharing, that the expectation is that Doc will take the ball out of his hands more often once he returns.

It's possible on the other hand that the Jazz offense was much better with Stockton handling the ball 100% of the time, than it would have been with more sharing.

The comment about "offensive system" is more a thought about Rondo's future role specifically with this team than about whether it's possible for Rondo to again average 11+ assists in the same system, or whether having someone else average 11+ is a good/bad thing.
There's something I've been struggling with.  For years I was under this belief that your point guard shouldn't be a scorer, but should just be someone who gets a lot of assists.  This just made sense with conventional basketball logic.  WHat's interesting, though... is that you have to go all the way back to Isiah Thomas and the Bad Boy Pistons to find a team that won a championship with a point guard who averaged over 8 assists... and in that instance, Isiah was also the team's best offensive weapon.   Are we really sure that this conventional wisdom is still relevant?  What evidence do we have that a team needs a ball-dominating poor-offensive passer?   This isn't football where you need a great passer to lead an offense.  This is the NBA.  In the NBA, big men and dominant scorers win championships.  And at the moment, it actually seems like this league has evolved into a system where elite point-guard sized scorers (your IRvings, your Curry's, your Westbrooks, your ROse's, etc) are able to flourish due to rule changes.  So it's possible for teams to exploit this by having elite scoring point guards.   Right now... isn't the point guard skill of "passing" secondary to putting the ball in the hoop? It makes sense why ROndo is only 6th on that list... you'd take a scoring point guard with mediocre passing over a passing point guard with weak offensive skills. I'm starting to think that the idea of a "pure" point guard isn't really relevant anymore... in the same way that the definition of the center position has changed in today's NBA.

Wait, first the knock on Rondo was that he can't lead your team to a championship because past evidence has shown that PG's don't win you titles. Now the logic is, we don't need Rondo because scoring PG's are more important in the NBA right now.

And suddenly having a PG who can score but has mediocre point guard skills is better than one who has elite skills but can't score (which BTW, isn't true for Rondo). That's absurd.

It's also highly unlikely that a guy like Curry, Irving, or even Rose will lead their team to a title any faster than Rondo will.

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #85 on: March 04, 2013, 05:52:06 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6162
  • Tommy Points: 383
  • Jeff Green
IF Rondo got the calls derrick rose did....rondo gets beaten everytime he goes in for a layup..no calls....is westbrook a pg...not really..he is more of a 2 guard..he never passes....

Rose never gets the calls. Compare to Parker or Paul. Rose doesn't get the calls.
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #86 on: March 04, 2013, 05:54:04 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17914
  • Tommy Points: 1294
IF Rondo got the calls derrick rose did....rondo gets beaten everytime he goes in for a layup..no calls....is westbrook a pg...not really..he is more of a 2 guard..he never passes....
Don't know whether he gets "beaten everytime", but he has most certainly mastered the art of making it look like his head gets taken off every time there's contact on a layup. Complete with the dramatic delay in getting up.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #87 on: March 04, 2013, 05:54:12 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

  • NCE
  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15402
  • Tommy Points: 2785
I'd even rank Rondo above DRose.

I love DRose' game, too - but he hasn't displayed to me the ability to just elevate his team like Rondo does....it's not like he hasn't had the talent.

Joakim Noah has ALWAYS been one of my favorite Bigs...Boozer has been one of the better PFs out there...Deng's been an All-Star the last few yrs, and certainly a top SF.

Injuries aside, I just haven't seen DRose (or CP3, for that matter) elevate their teams on their talent alone....and it's not like both of those teams are not stacked - because they ARE.

Rondo has done that...oh boy has he.....with this older team, too.

If SI wants to knock Rondo based off of how the team has played without him, that's not fair. It's ok to say that Rondo perhaps needs to adjust his game a bit once he returns.

But to arbitrarily rank him so low? Just a hot mess.

Man was compared to Larry Bird as far as making plays (by none other than Mark Jackson (09-10 playoffs).

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #88 on: March 04, 2013, 06:10:05 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6162
  • Tommy Points: 383
  • Jeff Green
My list goes like this:

Paul (head and shoulders above all)
Rose (when healthy - not sure what he'll look like post-injury)
Rondo (again, when healthy - if he spends his rehab working on that jumper, he could possibly move up)
Westbrook (I hate this guy a lot, but I cannot deny his elite scoring prowess; just a freak of nature)
Parker (the MVP this year;  San Antonio is going to struggle with him out for a month)
Curry (just keeps improving; one of the main reasons for Golden State's emergence)
Irving (just an incredible talent; hopefully he can get some help in Cleveland)
Holiday (love this guy's game; unfortunate Bynum is out, because I thought those two would be great)
Lillard (has taken the league by storm with his brilliance and maturity beyond his years)
Williams (has really disappointed me this year, but is still capable of being a force)

I agree. That's the first-tier of PGs in this league.
The scariest part? The second tier.

Conley - panning out lottery pick, totally a top second-tier player
Lawson - same as Conley. really good player as well, who is a top second-tier PG
Calderon - might have gotten a little worse, but one of the purest shooters out there (50-40-90), can get 15-15 games easily, as well as 3Ds
Vasquez - MIP candidate, he's led his team in assists for all 60 games this season. All sixty.
Dragic - was supposed to come out this year, with Nash gone, but idk what happened
Hill - a solid starting PG for Pacers, not bad.
Lin - has been playing well, now that he's out of the spotlight
Nash - could be better I suppose, but not bad either
Rubio - up-and-coming PG in this league, but his team sucks
Teague - also a great player on the Hawks, Jeff is good at what he does, a good third-option
Thomas - Isaiah could be better too if he weren't stuck in SAC, let's see where he is in a few years
Wall - amazing player, deserved first pick, starting to pan out more now: good player to build around, great leader for Wiz w/Beal
(and maybe Miller - idk really)
Could Chalmers be argued? sure, why not

Those are still great players.
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #89 on: March 04, 2013, 06:13:14 PM »

Offline CelticsFan9

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1571
  • Tommy Points: 116
  • Everyone's excited for the new era.
My list goes like this:

Paul (head and shoulders above all)
Rose (when healthy - not sure what he'll look like post-injury)
Rondo (again, when healthy - if he spends his rehab working on that jumper, he could possibly move up)
Westbrook (I hate this guy a lot, but I cannot deny his elite scoring prowess; just a freak of nature)
Parker (the MVP this year;  San Antonio is going to struggle with him out for a month)
Curry (just keeps improving; one of the main reasons for Golden State's emergence)
Irving (just an incredible talent; hopefully he can get some help in Cleveland)
Holiday (love this guy's game; unfortunate Bynum is out, because I thought those two would be great)
Lillard (has taken the league by storm with his brilliance and maturity beyond his years)
Williams (has really disappointed me this year, but is still capable of being a force)

I agree. That's the first-tier of PGs in this league.
The scariest part? The second tier.

Conley - panning out lottery pick, totally a top second-tier player
Lawson - same as Conley. really good player as well, who is a top second-tier PG
Calderon - might have gotten a little worse, but one of the purest shooters out there (50-40-90), can get 15-15 games easily, as well as 3Ds
Vasquez - MIP candidate, he's led his team in assists for all 60 games this season. All sixty.
Dragic - was supposed to come out this year, with Nash gone, but idk what happened
Hill - a solid starting PG for Pacers, not bad.
Lin - has been playing well, now that he's out of the spotlight
Nash - could be better I suppose, but not bad either
Rubio - up-and-coming PG in this league, but his team sucks
Teague - also a great player on the Hawks, Jeff is good at what he does, a good third-option
Thomas - Isaiah could be better too if he weren't stuck in SAC, let's see where he is in a few years
Wall - amazing player, deserved first pick, starting to pan out more now: good player to build around, great leader for Wiz w/Beal
(and maybe Miller - idk really)
Could Chalmers be argued? sure, why not

Those are still great players.

The PG position, without question, is the most talent-filled spot in the league right now.