Author Topic: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)  (Read 24192 times)

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Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #60 on: March 04, 2013, 03:51:46 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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The pundits will never have him in the top 3 because he doesnt score as much as other guards who are really 2 guards playing the point. In true fashion of a PG Rondo is top 3  in the league.

This is my argument as well. Are Westbrook and maybe Irving more talented than Rondo? Sure. Is Rondo a better point guard? absolutely.

Top PGs are scorers.

And that's the crux of my view.  PG's aren't really supposed to be your leading scorer.  It very rarely leads to titles.  PG's are supposed to facilitate the offense, or in certain circumstance, be an off-the-ball perimeter threat and secondary ball-handler.

These "new-wave" PG's aren't likely to win much of anything meaningful as "lead-dogs".

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #61 on: March 04, 2013, 03:58:57 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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6th seems about right to me.  And depending how next year goes, I could see him drop to 7th or 8th...  Lots of young point guards coming up and D-Will is due for a bounce-back season.

Also, I have a hard time believing Rondo will ever average 11+ assists again... not now that it's been pretty much proven the stats were inflated in an offensive system that didn't really work.

   Not only has it not been proven that Rondo's stats were inflated, it hasn't been shown that the offensive system didn't work. Nash and Magic and Stockton each had 5-7 11+ assist seasons when they were older than Rondo so it probably isn't as unlikely as you think. And, for the record, those guys were playing in offensive systems that led to high assist totals for them.

I think the point of the comment was that since the Celtics offense hasn't suffered with him out, and that there's more ball-sharing, that the expectation is that Doc will take the ball out of his hands more often once he returns.

It's possible on the other hand that the Jazz offense was much better with Stockton handling the ball 100% of the time, than it would have been with more sharing.

The comment about "offensive system" is more a thought about Rondo's future role specifically with this team than about whether it's possible for Rondo to again average 11+ assists in the same system, or whether having someone else average 11+ is a good/bad thing.

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #62 on: March 04, 2013, 04:01:56 PM »

Offline lightspeed5

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i dont think tony parker is better than rondo.


Why?



21 points

7.6 assists

.533 FG %

.379 3 FG %

.82 FT % getting to the line almost 5 times a game. 


And leads the team with the best record in the NBA.




What is there not to like?
how is it fair to exclude rebounding from the comparison when that is one of rondos strengths?

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #63 on: March 04, 2013, 04:03:10 PM »

Offline CelticsFan9

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i dont think tony parker is better than rondo.


Why?



21 points

7.6 assists

.533 FG %

.379 3 FG %

.82 FT % getting to the line almost 5 times a game. 


And leads the team with the best record in the NBA.




What is there not to like?

  That's one year though, I don't think he's really been top 5 or so in any of the previous 3-4 years.

I know you like Rondo, but Parker has been an MVP candidate the past two years, and plays consistently great for the past 4 or 5.
 
This year, Parker was far better than Rondo (before he went down).

  I thought that Parker was somewhat overrated last year and far from great the previous two.

If anything, Parker is UNDERRATED.

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #64 on: March 04, 2013, 04:03:46 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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1a. Tony Parker
1b. Chris Paul
3. Russell Westbrook
4. Derrick Rose, whenever he gets back
5a. Kyrie Irving
5b. Stephen Curry
7. Rondo, whenever he gets back
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Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #65 on: March 04, 2013, 04:04:37 PM »

Offline BballTim

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me thinks this parker discussion is losing course.

parker's a terrific player getting a little more attention in the last week because his extremely well respected coach went public and pointed out that he's one of the best players on the planet right now.

guy's an awesome triple threat, but more importantly a smart team player who has rounded his game over the years, and maximizes his effectiveness and that of his teammates, resulting in leading one of the most efficient offenses in the NBA.

  If you look at Parker and the way he's rounded his game over the years and improved as a player I think it's a good reason to think it's unlikely that Rondo's reached his peak. I'd say that Rondo's been more confident when he shoots and more willing to shoot this year and there's no reason to think that it won't continue going forward.



 

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #66 on: March 04, 2013, 04:11:22 PM »

Offline alajet

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Well, a list that has Deron at 8th, Rondo at 6th and Westbrook at 3rd is pretty much criminal, in my opinion.

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #67 on: March 04, 2013, 04:12:00 PM »

Offline BballTim

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6th seems about right to me.  And depending how next year goes, I could see him drop to 7th or 8th...  Lots of young point guards coming up and D-Will is due for a bounce-back season.

Also, I have a hard time believing Rondo will ever average 11+ assists again... not now that it's been pretty much proven the stats were inflated in an offensive system that didn't really work.

   Not only has it not been proven that Rondo's stats were inflated, it hasn't been shown that the offensive system didn't work. Nash and Magic and Stockton each had 5-7 11+ assist seasons when they were older than Rondo so it probably isn't as unlikely as you think. And, for the record, those guys were playing in offensive systems that led to high assist totals for them.

I think the point of the comment was that since the Celtics offense hasn't suffered with him out, and that there's more ball-sharing, that the expectation is that Doc will take the ball out of his hands more often once he returns.

  The Celts offense has done fine with Rondo running it over the years. It was in something of a slump after getting off to a very good start this year. We played bad for similarly long stretches in each of the last 3-4 years and it hasn't led to the ball being taken out of Rondo's hands. I think Doc might tweak the offense somewhat next year when Rondo comes back but I think there's a pretty big disconnect between what people here think and what Doc and Danny think.

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #68 on: March 04, 2013, 04:21:16 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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6th seems about right to me.  And depending how next year goes, I could see him drop to 7th or 8th...  Lots of young point guards coming up and D-Will is due for a bounce-back season.

Also, I have a hard time believing Rondo will ever average 11+ assists again... not now that it's been pretty much proven the stats were inflated in an offensive system that didn't really work.

   Not only has it not been proven that Rondo's stats were inflated, it hasn't been shown that the offensive system didn't work. Nash and Magic and Stockton each had 5-7 11+ assist seasons when they were older than Rondo so it probably isn't as unlikely as you think. And, for the record, those guys were playing in offensive systems that led to high assist totals for them.

I think the point of the comment was that since the Celtics offense hasn't suffered with him out, and that there's more ball-sharing, that the expectation is that Doc will take the ball out of his hands more often once he returns.

It's possible on the other hand that the Jazz offense was much better with Stockton handling the ball 100% of the time, than it would have been with more sharing.

The comment about "offensive system" is more a thought about Rondo's future role specifically with this team than about whether it's possible for Rondo to again average 11+ assists in the same system, or whether having someone else average 11+ is a good/bad thing.
We're playing better without ROndo in part, because of the revelation that allowing our creators to create is a good thing.  We don't need Rondo holding the ball 99% of the time.  It's alright to let Jeff Green do his thing once in a while.   Having the ball flow through our elite scorer, Paul Pierce, is a good thing (shocker).  So I find it hard to believe a system will again bend to the whims of a Rondo-centric assist-inflated system.  It didn't work as well.

There's something I've been struggling with.  For years I was under this belief that your point guard shouldn't be a scorer, but should just be someone who gets a lot of assists.  This just made sense with conventional basketball logic.  WHat's interesting, though... is that you have to go all the way back to Isiah Thomas and the Bad Boy Pistons to find a team that won a championship with a point guard who averaged over 8 assists... and in that instance, Isiah was also the team's best offensive weapon.   Are we really sure that this conventional wisdom is still relevant?  What evidence do we have that a team needs a ball-dominating poor-offensive passer?   This isn't football where you need a great passer to lead an offense.  This is the NBA.  In the NBA, big men and dominant scorers win championships.  And at the moment, it actually seems like this league has evolved into a system where elite point-guard sized scorers (your IRvings, your Curry's, your Westbrooks, your ROse's, etc) are able to flourish due to rule changes.  So it's possible for teams to exploit this by having elite scoring point guards.   Right now... isn't the point guard skill of "passing" secondary to putting the ball in the hoop?  It makes sense why ROndo is only 6th on that list... you'd take a scoring point guard with mediocre passing over a passing point guard with weak offensive skills.  I'm starting to think that the idea of a "pure" point guard isn't really relevant anymore... in the same way that the definition of the center position has changed in today's NBA.

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #69 on: March 04, 2013, 04:24:00 PM »

Online Moranis

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The pundits will never have him in the top 3 because he doesnt score as much as other guards who are really 2 guards playing the point. In true fashion of a PG Rondo is top 3  in the league.

This is my argument as well. Are Westbrook and maybe Irving more talented than Rondo? Sure. Is Rondo a better point guard? absolutely.

Top PGs are scorers.

And that's the crux of my view.  PG's aren't really supposed to be your leading scorer.  It very rarely leads to titles.  PG's are supposed to facilitate the offense, or in certain circumstance, be an off-the-ball perimeter threat and secondary ball-handler.

These "new-wave" PG's aren't likely to win much of anything meaningful as "lead-dogs".
Except the two all time great PG's that won championships as their teams best player were Magic and Isiah who happened to be two of the better scoring PG's in league history.
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Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #70 on: March 04, 2013, 04:49:53 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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6th seems about right to me.  And depending how next year goes, I could see him drop to 7th or 8th...  Lots of young point guards coming up and D-Will is due for a bounce-back season.

Also, I have a hard time believing Rondo will ever average 11+ assists again... not now that it's been pretty much proven the stats were inflated in an offensive system that didn't really work.

   Not only has it not been proven that Rondo's stats were inflated, it hasn't been shown that the offensive system didn't work. Nash and Magic and Stockton each had 5-7 11+ assist seasons when they were older than Rondo so it probably isn't as unlikely as you think. And, for the record, those guys were playing in offensive systems that led to high assist totals for them.

I think the point of the comment was that since the Celtics offense hasn't suffered with him out, and that there's more ball-sharing, that the expectation is that Doc will take the ball out of his hands more often once he returns.

  The Celts offense has done fine with Rondo running it over the years. It was in something of a slump after getting off to a very good start this year. We played bad for similarly long stretches in each of the last 3-4 years and it hasn't led to the ball being taken out of Rondo's hands. I think Doc might tweak the offense somewhat next year when Rondo comes back but I think there's a pretty big disconnect between what people here think and what Doc and Danny think.

This might be true. As my father-in-law is fond of saying, "A leopard don't change its spots."

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #71 on: March 04, 2013, 04:51:25 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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LOL!

SI's been bought out by ESPN.

Number 6 my BIG TOE ;D.

So..according to NBA fans everywhere..he should be number 2, based off of the ASG.

Mind you - I haven't read the entire thread yet, nor read the article....just reacting (or over-reacting), based off of what I see in the threads.

EDIT: Ok, not over-reacting...SI's HAS been bought out...one of the last (I thought) bastions of true sports journalism has sided with the Empire.

No way that Rajon Rondo is "Just" number 6...no way......
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 04:57:10 PM by GreenFaith1819 »

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #72 on: March 04, 2013, 04:59:15 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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6th seems about right to me.  And depending how next year goes, I could see him drop to 7th or 8th...  Lots of young point guards coming up and D-Will is due for a bounce-back season.

Also, I have a hard time believing Rondo will ever average 11+ assists again... not now that it's been pretty much proven the stats were inflated in an offensive system that didn't really work.

   Not only has it not been proven that Rondo's stats were inflated, it hasn't been shown that the offensive system didn't work. Nash and Magic and Stockton each had 5-7 11+ assist seasons when they were older than Rondo so it probably isn't as unlikely as you think. And, for the record, those guys were playing in offensive systems that led to high assist totals for them.

I think the point of the comment was that since the Celtics offense hasn't suffered with him out, and that there's more ball-sharing, that the expectation is that Doc will take the ball out of his hands more often once he returns.

  The Celts offense has done fine with Rondo running it over the years. It was in something of a slump after getting off to a very good start this year. We played bad for similarly long stretches in each of the last 3-4 years and it hasn't led to the ball being taken out of Rondo's hands. I think Doc might tweak the offense somewhat next year when Rondo comes back but I think there's a pretty big disconnect between what people here think and what Doc and Danny think.

Clearly Danny and Doc are just trying to boost his trade value and dont really beleive what they are saying  ;)

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #73 on: March 04, 2013, 05:00:25 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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I might as well try to rate them myself.

1. Rondo
2. Parker
3. Westbrook
4. Paul
5. Rose
6. Irving

[those 6 are all crazy-freaks and cases could be made for each of the first 5, as best PG]

7. Curry
8. Jrue
9. Williams

[still on the amazing players spectrum here, DWill having bad year but I don't like him really]

10. Lillard
11. Conley
13. Lawson
14. Calderon
15. Vasquez

[to be honest, these five are still considered AMAZING players, it's crazy how many good PGs there are out there]

16. Dragic
17. Hill
18. Andre Miller
19. Lin
20. Nash
21. Rubio
22. Teague
23. Isaiah Thomas
24. John Wall

[not in order, tbh]

I can't believe it. I'd take any of these 24 point guards as a starter (they all are starters, I suppose. LOL) But seriously, I see all of these as amazing players. I guess why the PG position is so stacked is because there's way more 6'1" people than 7'1" people. But come on, these are all amazing players.

When you have 24 above average PGs in the NBA, then what is average? Is John Wall an AVERAGE player? If John Wall, a first-pick who is fulfilling expectations, is an average PG, then the PG position is absurd. This is crazy, every team has a good PG (except Detroit) o_o

I can't even say that was my list now. That was so inaccurate. I could move any of those players up or down 10 spots depending on how I feel... :|
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

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"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: The NBA's top 10 PG's according to SI (Rondo is number 6)
« Reply #74 on: March 04, 2013, 05:00:26 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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There...rant ended. ;D