Author Topic: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?  (Read 7639 times)

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Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #75 on: February 25, 2013, 10:51:49 AM »

Offline ssspence

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I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.

If they're going to trade Rondo, it will likely be a 2-for-1 including one very good established player, and either a prospect or another starter.

Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #76 on: February 25, 2013, 11:01:10 AM »

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Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #77 on: February 25, 2013, 11:11:51 AM »

Online BballTim

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I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.

Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #78 on: February 25, 2013, 11:27:54 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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The fact that Rondo was (arguably) the best player, or (inarguably) at least the second best player on a team that made it to a seventh game of the ECF last year,  the fact that he finished 8th in MVP voting for the 2011-2012 season, was an all star and a 3rd team all NBA selection, the fact that he has been voted to the all NBA defensive team by opposing coaches four straight years, the fact that this year was his fourth straight all star selection, the fact that he was voted 10th in the MVP voting for the 2010-2011 season, the fact that he was one of the best players in the playoffs in both the 2009 season without Kevin Garnett and the 2010 season where we made it to within four minutes of a title, the fact that he was dominant in our first round series in 2011 and gamely fought on against the Heat in the second round with only one arm are all merely examples of homerism and the tendency of a few Celtics fans to completely overrate our point guard.

In reality, despite the above facts, Rajon Rondo is almost completely useless and worthless.   


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Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #79 on: February 25, 2013, 11:29:32 AM »

Offline ssspence

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I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.

I'm not commenting about how effective Rondo is. I'm pointing out that you're overrating his trade value.

If you're saying you'd rather just keep Rondo than trade him for Mayo and Conley -- fair enough. If you're hoping the Cs could get more -- I doubt it. 


Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #80 on: February 25, 2013, 12:04:53 PM »

Online BballTim

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I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.

I'm not commenting about how effective Rondo is. I'm pointing out that you're overrating his trade value.

  You're guessing that I'm overrating his trade value, neither of us know exactly what it is and your assumption seems to be that his trade value isn't based on how effective a player he is.
 
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 12:12:53 PM by BballTim »

Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #81 on: February 25, 2013, 01:50:55 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.

I'm not commenting about how effective Rondo is. I'm pointing out that you're overrating his trade value.

  You're guessing that I'm overrating his trade value, neither of us know exactly what it is and your assumption seems to be that his trade value isn't based on how effective a player he is.
well we know that Rondo couldn't be traded for Chris Paul or Stephen Curry before last year.  This was 22 year old Steph Curry that had an ankle injury, not the 24 year old Steph Curry of right now.  I think that should give you a pretty good idea of his trade value.
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Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #82 on: February 25, 2013, 01:54:40 PM »

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I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.

I'm not commenting about how effective Rondo is. I'm pointing out that you're overrating his trade value.

  You're guessing that I'm overrating his trade value, neither of us know exactly what it is and your assumption seems to be that his trade value isn't based on how effective a player he is.
well we know that Rondo couldn't be traded for Chris Paul or Stephen Curry before last year.  This was 22 year old Steph Curry that had an ankle injury, not the 24 year old Steph Curry of right now.  I think that should give you a pretty good idea of his trade value.

  We also know that he's the kind of player that the Lakers would discuss trading Dwight Howard for, clearly his value has shot up since then.

Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #83 on: February 25, 2013, 02:20:30 PM »

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I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.

I'm not commenting about how effective Rondo is. I'm pointing out that you're overrating his trade value.

  You're guessing that I'm overrating his trade value, neither of us know exactly what it is and your assumption seems to be that his trade value isn't based on how effective a player he is.
well we know that Rondo couldn't be traded for Chris Paul or Stephen Curry before last year.  This was 22 year old Steph Curry that had an ankle injury, not the 24 year old Steph Curry of right now.  I think that should give you a pretty good idea of his trade value.

  We also know that he's the kind of player that the Lakers would discuss trading Dwight Howard for, clearly his value has shot up since then.
It was probably a darn short discussion and it happened before Rondo went out with a torn ACL.  I'm sure Rondo for Dwight could theoretically be discussed if Dwight was demanding a trade and planning on bailing on LA and leaving them nothing in return. 

Rondo's a great player, but he's a limited player and not someone who can carry a team.  He also has severe flaws in his game and requires a really specific style of team and type of teammates in order for him to be successful.  It really hurts his potential trade value.  Look at the kind of deals we've been rejected for.

Chris Paul - Clearly superior to Rondo in most ways
Steph Curry - You take elite shooting over elite passing all day.
Pau Gasol - You take an elite big over an elite passer all day.. 

Elite scoring and elite bigs are what wins titles... this isn't football.  You don't need a quarterback.  You need someone who can put the ball the bucket and prevent others from doing the same.

So I think the type of guy you could get for Rondo would be a big who isn't quite elite... or a scorer who isn't quite elite.  I'm talkin bout someone like a Danny Granger if you're looking for scoring.  Or... perhaps someone like Al Jefferson from a team like Utah who needs an upgrade at PG and is loaded with bigs.  That's the wheelhouse for ROndo's trade value. 

Really when you look at Rondo's career he's basically a poor man's Jason Kidd.  Kidd has been traded multiple times in his career

#1 - Along with two guys who were recently picked in the 1st round, he was traded for for Michael Finley (who at that point was 23 years old and averaging 13 points... eventually made a couple allstar teams in his career but never was an "elite" scorer) ... and 27 year old Sam Cassell who actually was only like a 14 and 5 guy at the time.   

What would you compare that trade to at that point in their respective careers?... I think it would be like trading Rondo + Sully + Melo for Darren Collinson and OJ Mayo.

#2 - Traded for Stephon Marbury... a bit of a headcase.  He had yet to make an allstar team.  More of a scorer than a traditional point guard.  His team had stunk.  He was still only 23 though.  What would you compare that trade to?... Rondo for Brandon Jennings?

#3 - Traded for Devin Harris ... strange deal, because Kidd was kind of over the hill and Harris was a young decent player who had put together some inflated stats.  He was 24 and averaging 14 and 4.  That's like trading Rondo for something between a Ramon Sessions and a Brandon Knight.

And then of course Kidd's trade value was always higher than Rondo's just because Kidd in his prime was better than Rondo and Kidd (on the court at least) didn't seem to have a lot of the stigmas that Rondo has (moody, poor leadership, mails in games). 

So I'd say Rondo's trade value (when healthy) is somewhere between Al Jefferson and Ramon Sessions.   I'd say Rondo's trade value during the trade deadline (torn ACL) was just about nothing.  And I'd say that I'd rather hang onto Rondo than get the kind of return we'd be able to get for him.

Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #84 on: February 25, 2013, 02:45:53 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

"As good as the C's will ever do" is probably not enough of a return to justify trading Rondo for pure basketball reasons.  You'd probably need something like salary cap or locker room reasons to justify trading Rondo for the best you are likely to get back for him.
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Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #85 on: February 25, 2013, 03:18:39 PM »

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I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.

I'm not commenting about how effective Rondo is. I'm pointing out that you're overrating his trade value.

  You're guessing that I'm overrating his trade value, neither of us know exactly what it is and your assumption seems to be that his trade value isn't based on how effective a player he is.
well we know that Rondo couldn't be traded for Chris Paul or Stephen Curry before last year.  This was 22 year old Steph Curry that had an ankle injury, not the 24 year old Steph Curry of right now.  I think that should give you a pretty good idea of his trade value.

  We also know that he's the kind of player that the Lakers would discuss trading Dwight Howard for, clearly his value has shot up since then.
It was probably a darn short discussion and it happened before Rondo went out with a torn ACL.  I'm sure Rondo for Dwight could theoretically be discussed if Dwight was demanding a trade and planning on bailing on LA and leaving them nothing in return. 

Rondo's a great player, but he's a limited player and not someone who can carry a team.  He also has severe flaws in his game and requires a really specific style of team and type of teammates in order for him to be successful.  It really hurts his potential trade value.  Look at the kind of deals we've been rejected for.

Chris Paul - Clearly superior to Rondo in most ways
Steph Curry - You take elite shooting over elite passing all day.
Pau Gasol - You take an elite big over an elite passer all day.. 

Elite scoring and elite bigs are what wins titles... this isn't football.  You don't need a quarterback.  You need someone who can put the ball the bucket and prevent others from doing the same.

  Color me unsurprised that you'd dismiss any rumors that show Rondo to be valuable yet treat other rumors like fact. Also Rondo's shown himself to be a player who's capable of carrying the team  in multiple playoff runs. It's also completely untrue that he requires a really specific style of team and type of teammates in order for him to be successful". I'd love to here about the specific style of team and type of teammates that includes either Bradley or Ray at sg, and any of Shaq or Perk or Bass as a front court partner with KG. And you can come up with as many reasons as you like that you think that "other players win titles", but that doesn't mean Rondo hasn't led the team on deep playoff runs and it also doesn't mean that players like Curry, Paul or Pau have led teams as far as Rondo has.

Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #86 on: February 25, 2013, 03:38:43 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Really when you look at Rondo's career he's basically a poor man's Jason Kidd.  Kidd has been traded multiple times in his career

#1 - Along with two guys who were recently picked in the 1st round, he was traded for for Michael Finley (who at that point was 23 years old and averaging 13 points... eventually made a couple allstar teams in his career but never was an "elite" scorer) ... and 27 year old Sam Cassell who actually was only like a 14 and 5 guy at the time.   

What would you compare that trade to at that point in their respective careers?... I think it would be like trading Rondo + Sully + Melo for Darren Collinson and OJ Mayo.

#2 - Traded for Stephon Marbury... a bit of a headcase.  He had yet to make an allstar team.  More of a scorer than a traditional point guard.  His team had stunk.  He was still only 23 though.  What would you compare that trade to?... Rondo for Brandon Jennings?

#3 - Traded for Devin Harris ... strange deal, because Kidd was kind of over the hill and Harris was a young decent player who had put together some inflated stats.  He was 24 and averaging 14 and 4.  That's like trading Rondo for something between a Ramon Sessions and a Brandon Knight.

And then of course Kidd's trade value was always higher than Rondo's just because Kidd in his prime was better than Rondo and Kidd (on the court at least) didn't seem to have a lot of the stigmas that Rondo has (moody, poor leadership, mails in games). 

So I'd say Rondo's trade value (when healthy) is somewhere between Al Jefferson and Ramon Sessions.   I'd say Rondo's trade value during the trade deadline (torn ACL) was just about nothing.  And I'd say that I'd rather hang onto Rondo than get the kind of return we'd be able to get for him.

I definitely think the Kidd comparison is a good one for Rondo.  Rondo is truly a unique player, but Jason Kidd is probably the player in recent memory who is most reminiscent of Rajon. 

Interestingly, in each of the trades you mention, the team that acquired Kidd got the better of the trade.  Maybe that should serve as a lesson for Danny if he ever thinks about trading away Rondo for more of a scorer. 

Also, I want to point out that when you say that Kidd in his prime was better than Rondo, you should keep in mind that Rondo hasn't reached his prime yet.

That knee is the big wild card now.  I'm hoping it heals up completely so that we get to see him reach that prime as a Celtic.   
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Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #87 on: February 25, 2013, 03:51:01 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Really when you look at Rondo's career he's basically a poor man's Jason Kidd.  Kidd has been traded multiple times in his career

#1 - Along with two guys who were recently picked in the 1st round, he was traded for for Michael Finley (who at that point was 23 years old and averaging 13 points... eventually made a couple allstar teams in his career but never was an "elite" scorer) ... and 27 year old Sam Cassell who actually was only like a 14 and 5 guy at the time.   

What would you compare that trade to at that point in their respective careers?... I think it would be like trading Rondo + Sully + Melo for Darren Collinson and OJ Mayo.

#2 - Traded for Stephon Marbury... a bit of a headcase.  He had yet to make an allstar team.  More of a scorer than a traditional point guard.  His team had stunk.  He was still only 23 though.  What would you compare that trade to?... Rondo for Brandon Jennings?

#3 - Traded for Devin Harris ... strange deal, because Kidd was kind of over the hill and Harris was a young decent player who had put together some inflated stats.  He was 24 and averaging 14 and 4.  That's like trading Rondo for something between a Ramon Sessions and a Brandon Knight.

And then of course Kidd's trade value was always higher than Rondo's just because Kidd in his prime was better than Rondo and Kidd (on the court at least) didn't seem to have a lot of the stigmas that Rondo has (moody, poor leadership, mails in games). 

So I'd say Rondo's trade value (when healthy) is somewhere between Al Jefferson and Ramon Sessions.   I'd say Rondo's trade value during the trade deadline (torn ACL) was just about nothing.  And I'd say that I'd rather hang onto Rondo than get the kind of return we'd be able to get for him.

I definitely think the Kidd comparison is a good one for Rondo.  Rondo is truly a unique player, but Jason Kidd is probably the player in recent memory who is most reminiscent of Rajon. 

Interestingly, in each of the trades you mention, the team that acquired Kidd got the better of the trade.  Maybe that should serve as a lesson for Danny if he ever thinks about trading away Rondo for more of a scorer. 

Also, I want to point out that when you say that Kidd in his prime was better than Rondo, you should keep in mind that Rondo hasn't reached his prime yet.

That knee is the big wild card now.  I'm hoping it heals up completely so that we get to see him reach that prime as a Celtic.

The difference is that Kidd was a better shooter than Rondo, and I don't recall him ever having Rondo's maturity issues (constant suspensions, playing when he feels like it, etc).  Same can be said for Stockton too.

Kidd was always a good free throw shooter so he wasn't afraid of being fouled at the end of games, he could hot the three so defenders couldn't D way off him the way they can with Rondo, and he always showed up to play.  I also think he was better at playing to other guy's strengths than Rondo.

How many guys can you think of who got significantly better after playing with Rondo?

Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #88 on: February 25, 2013, 03:51:31 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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Really when you look at Rondo's career he's basically a poor man's Jason Kidd.  Kidd has been traded multiple times in his career

#1 - Along with two guys who were recently picked in the 1st round, he was traded for for Michael Finley (who at that point was 23 years old and averaging 13 points... eventually made a couple allstar teams in his career but never was an "elite" scorer) ... and 27 year old Sam Cassell who actually was only like a 14 and 5 guy at the time.   

What would you compare that trade to at that point in their respective careers?... I think it would be like trading Rondo + Sully + Melo for Darren Collinson and OJ Mayo.

#2 - Traded for Stephon Marbury... a bit of a headcase.  He had yet to make an allstar team.  More of a scorer than a traditional point guard.  His team had stunk.  He was still only 23 though.  What would you compare that trade to?... Rondo for Brandon Jennings?

#3 - Traded for Devin Harris ... strange deal, because Kidd was kind of over the hill and Harris was a young decent player who had put together some inflated stats.  He was 24 and averaging 14 and 4.  That's like trading Rondo for something between a Ramon Sessions and a Brandon Knight.

And then of course Kidd's trade value was always higher than Rondo's just because Kidd in his prime was better than Rondo and Kidd (on the court at least) didn't seem to have a lot of the stigmas that Rondo has (moody, poor leadership, mails in games). 

So I'd say Rondo's trade value (when healthy) is somewhere between Al Jefferson and Ramon Sessions.   I'd say Rondo's trade value during the trade deadline (torn ACL) was just about nothing.  And I'd say that I'd rather hang onto Rondo than get the kind of return we'd be able to get for him.

I definitely think the Kidd comparison is a good one for Rondo.  Rondo is truly a unique player, but Jason Kidd is probably the player in recent memory who is most reminiscent of Rajon. 

Interestingly, in each of the trades you mention, the team that acquired Kidd got the better of the trade.  Maybe that should serve as a lesson for Danny if he ever thinks about trading away Rondo for more of a scorer. 

Also, I want to point out that when you say that Kidd in his prime was better than Rondo, you should keep in mind that Rondo hasn't reached his prime yet.

That knee is the big wild card now.  I'm hoping it heals up completely so that we get to see him reach that prime as a Celtic.

The difference is that Kidd was a better shooter than Rondo, and I don't recall him ever having Rondo's maturity issues (constant suspensions, playing when he feels like it, etc).  Same can be said for Stockton too.

Kidd was always a good free throw shooter so he wasn't afraid of being fouled at the end of games, he could hot the three so defenders couldn't D way off him the way they can with Rondo, and he always showed up to play.  I also think he was better at playing to other guy's strengths than Rondo.

How many guys can you think of who got significantly better after playing with Rondo?

Kidd used to be a below-average shooter, I thought.
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

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Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
« Reply #89 on: February 25, 2013, 04:06:34 PM »

Online BballTim

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Really when you look at Rondo's career he's basically a poor man's Jason Kidd.  Kidd has been traded multiple times in his career

#1 - Along with two guys who were recently picked in the 1st round, he was traded for for Michael Finley (who at that point was 23 years old and averaging 13 points... eventually made a couple allstar teams in his career but never was an "elite" scorer) ... and 27 year old Sam Cassell who actually was only like a 14 and 5 guy at the time.   

What would you compare that trade to at that point in their respective careers?... I think it would be like trading Rondo + Sully + Melo for Darren Collinson and OJ Mayo.

#2 - Traded for Stephon Marbury... a bit of a headcase.  He had yet to make an allstar team.  More of a scorer than a traditional point guard.  His team had stunk.  He was still only 23 though.  What would you compare that trade to?... Rondo for Brandon Jennings?

#3 - Traded for Devin Harris ... strange deal, because Kidd was kind of over the hill and Harris was a young decent player who had put together some inflated stats.  He was 24 and averaging 14 and 4.  That's like trading Rondo for something between a Ramon Sessions and a Brandon Knight.

And then of course Kidd's trade value was always higher than Rondo's just because Kidd in his prime was better than Rondo and Kidd (on the court at least) didn't seem to have a lot of the stigmas that Rondo has (moody, poor leadership, mails in games). 

So I'd say Rondo's trade value (when healthy) is somewhere between Al Jefferson and Ramon Sessions.   I'd say Rondo's trade value during the trade deadline (torn ACL) was just about nothing.  And I'd say that I'd rather hang onto Rondo than get the kind of return we'd be able to get for him.

I definitely think the Kidd comparison is a good one for Rondo.  Rondo is truly a unique player, but Jason Kidd is probably the player in recent memory who is most reminiscent of Rajon. 

Interestingly, in each of the trades you mention, the team that acquired Kidd got the better of the trade.  Maybe that should serve as a lesson for Danny if he ever thinks about trading away Rondo for more of a scorer. 

Also, I want to point out that when you say that Kidd in his prime was better than Rondo, you should keep in mind that Rondo hasn't reached his prime yet.

That knee is the big wild card now.  I'm hoping it heals up completely so that we get to see him reach that prime as a Celtic.

The difference is that Kidd was a better shooter than Rondo, and I don't recall him ever having Rondo's maturity issues (constant suspensions, playing when he feels like it, etc).  Same can be said for Stockton too.

Kidd was always a good free throw shooter so he wasn't afraid of being fouled at the end of games, he could hot the three so defenders couldn't D way off him the way they can with Rondo, and he always showed up to play.  I also think he was better at playing to other guy's strengths than Rondo.

How many guys can you think of who got significantly better after playing with Rondo?

  You don't know much about Kidd if you think he never had maturity issues. They had to break up the Mavs in no small part over a feud he had with a teammate over a girl. Rondo's had 4 seasons with a higher efg% than Kidd's best year before he was 35, he wasn't anywhere near the shooter you think he was either. And if you're looking for players that had their best shooting years playing with Rondo, start with PP, RA, probably KG, Shaq, Krstic and Green. I'm sure there are others. The claim that Rondo doesn't make other players better is nonsensical.

 

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