Author Topic: Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime  (Read 4891 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime
« on: February 09, 2013, 01:04:52 PM »

Offline ssspence

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4621
  • Tommy Points: 264
  • James Naismith to Dickey Betts for the jam.....
Better without Rajon Rondo? No. Playing harder -- and happier -- without everything revolving around Rondo and without his, uh, moods. Hard to argue against the claim that life around the Celtics is simply lighter, these days when you see them lock in, win six in a row without the All-Star point guard and move the ball better than they have all season. The Celtics, for the first time in ages, really look like a team.

I hope somewhere Rondo is reading items like this, and Ainge's very smartly pointed comments about a slightly more team oriented role when he returns.

Re: Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2013, 01:10:03 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23069
  • Tommy Points: 1082


  Maybe Danny will talk to Doc about changing the offense to add in the uptempo play we've been seeing when Rondo comes back, and maybe he'll also make smartly pointed comments to the rest of the team that they should play hard all the time, not just when Rondo's out.

  Or are we now labeling trying harder when you have a bigger role in the offense and handle the ball more "team oriented"?

Re: Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2013, 01:11:56 PM »

Offline snively

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5415
  • Tommy Points: 384
Irritated how short-sighted the media is with this narrative.  Did they not see the 6 game winning streak with Rondo?  Did they miss the 2nd half of last season?
Pick 2 Team: Rockets (McHale)
PG M. Chalmers ($4 mil) SG J. Harden ($5.8 mil) SF W. Chandler ($5.9) PF Nene ($13) C S. Hawes ($6.5) 6th man: Ginobli ($14.1) 7th man: Marv Williams ($8.3) Enforcers: F. Ezeli ($1), C. Hayes ($5.5) Bench Marksman: A. Morrow ($4) Young Gun: R. Jackson ($1.2) Greybeard: P. Prigioni ($.5) Towel-Waver: Mike Scott ($.5)

Re: Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2013, 01:16:18 PM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12384
  • Tommy Points: 1197


  Maybe Danny will talk to Doc about changing the offense to add in the uptempo play we've been seeing when Rondo comes back, and maybe he'll also make smartly pointed comments to the rest of the team that they should play hard all the time, not just when Rondo's out.

  Or are we now labeling trying harder when you have a bigger role in the offense and handle the ball more "team oriented"?

I just can't agree with your assesment of adding "uptempo" play. I find it absolutely false. This is the style of play he wanted to play with Rondo, yet for some reason it didn't happen... no use in pointing fingers now, but it simply didn't, despite it being completely in Rondo's power to make it happen.

What I do want to see though is a change in how our ball moves, and how much Rondo dominates the ball in our half-court sets, and how quickly he starts our offense. And it's not solely on him, Pierce has a hand in that aspect too.

And I'm one of the few out there that actually like Rondo off the ball, so would like to see more of that. I think his style of play could be more dangerous from those positions, particularly since he's a bit averse at taking players off the dribble for some reason despite it being an option for him in pretty much every single play.

Re: Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2013, 01:17:25 PM »

Offline staticcc

  • Marcus Smart
  • Posts: 423
  • Tommy Points: 29
Irritated how short-sighted the media is with this narrative.  Did they not see the 6 game winning streak with Rondo?  Did they miss the 2nd half of last season?

Different season. Bradley was fully healthy except for the playoffs and Ray Allen was there to make all of Rondo's "get to the rim but pass off the sure 2 points" passes.
"The bigger the lie, the more they believe." - Bunk

Re: Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2013, 01:26:37 PM »

Offline ssspence

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4621
  • Tommy Points: 264
  • James Naismith to Dickey Betts for the jam.....
Irritated how short-sighted the media is with this narrative.  Did they not see the 6 game winning streak with Rondo?  Did they miss the 2nd half of last season?

Just take it for what it is: a guy pointing out that Rondo's teammates have felt a sense of relief from his relentless militant attitude.

Re: Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2013, 01:31:34 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6175
  • Tommy Points: 382
  • Jeff Green
Better without Rajon Rondo? No. Playing harder -- and happier -- without everything revolving around Rondo and without his, uh, moods. Hard to argue against the claim that life around the Celtics is simply lighter, these days when you see them lock in, win six in a row without the All-Star point guard and move the ball better than they have all season. The Celtics, for the first time in ages, really look like a team.

I hope somewhere Rondo is reading items like this, and Ainge's very smartly pointed comments about a slightly more team oriented role when he returns.

I hope he comes back with a new perspective of this game
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2013, 01:32:13 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23069
  • Tommy Points: 1082


  Maybe Danny will talk to Doc about changing the offense to add in the uptempo play we've been seeing when Rondo comes back, and maybe he'll also make smartly pointed comments to the rest of the team that they should play hard all the time, not just when Rondo's out.

  Or are we now labeling trying harder when you have a bigger role in the offense and handle the ball more "team oriented"?

I just can't agree with your assesment of adding "uptempo" play. I find it absolutely false. This is the style of play he wanted to play with Rondo, yet for some reason it didn't happen... no use in pointing fingers now, but it simply didn't, despite it being completely in Rondo's power to make it happen.

  Maybe. I think I've seen enough quotes from Doc and the players stating or alluding to trying to get more transition baskets with Rondo out to believe it's not my imagination.

What I do want to see though is a change in how our ball moves, and how much Rondo dominates the ball in our half-court sets, and how quickly he starts our offense. And it's not solely on him, Pierce has a hand in that aspect too.

  I'd say we certainly look different without Rondo (or PP) controlling the ball during half-court sets but I think that, for all the ball movement, we're ending up with similar shots at the same time in the shot clock that we typically see.

And I'm one of the few out there that actually like Rondo off the ball, so would like to see more of that. I think his style of play could be more dangerous from those positions, particularly since he's a bit averse at taking players off the dribble for some reason despite it being an option for him in pretty much every single play.

  Not sure exactly what you're referring to. Also, someone posted in another thread that Rondo drives into the lane more than almost anyone else in the league.

Re: Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2013, 01:44:33 PM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12384
  • Tommy Points: 1197


  Maybe Danny will talk to Doc about changing the offense to add in the uptempo play we've been seeing when Rondo comes back, and maybe he'll also make smartly pointed comments to the rest of the team that they should play hard all the time, not just when Rondo's out.

  Or are we now labeling trying harder when you have a bigger role in the offense and handle the ball more "team oriented"?

I just can't agree with your assesment of adding "uptempo" play. I find it absolutely false. This is the style of play he wanted to play with Rondo, yet for some reason it didn't happen... no use in pointing fingers now, but it simply didn't, despite it being completely in Rondo's power to make it happen.

  Maybe. I think I've seen enough quotes from Doc and the players stating or alluding to trying to get more transition baskets with Rondo out to believe it's not my imagination.

What else are they going to say really? But since January, would you say that our second unit, that being one that had Jet and Lee at the guard positions, didn't have an uptempo style?

I though that was a constant, so why with the same group of people wasn't it occurring more once you subbed Rondo in? At this point, I really don't care who's to blame honestly, but variable that changed was Rondo.

Quote
What I do want to see though is a change in how our ball moves, and how much Rondo dominates the ball in our half-court sets, and how quickly he starts our offense. And it's not solely on him, Pierce has a hand in that aspect too.

  I'd say we certainly look different without Rondo (or PP) controlling the ball during half-court sets but I think that, for all the ball movement, we're ending up with similar shots at the same time in the shot clock that we typically see.

I think you're underestimating rhythm and the effect ball movement has on defenses. I'll tell you this much though, we'd be getting even better shots if the ball was moving this way with Rondo on the floor because despite everything, he's still our best passer and has the batter vision.

And we've seen it with Rondo, but just through stretches.

Quote
And I'm one of the few out there that actually like Rondo off the ball, so would like to see more of that. I think his style of play could be more dangerous from those positions, particularly since he's a bit averse at taking players off the dribble for some reason despite it being an option for him in pretty much every single play.

  Not sure exactly what you're referring to. Also, someone posted in another thread that Rondo drives into the lane more than almost anyone else in the league.

I don't think that really means much, particularly with the amount of control he has on possessions, and how he compares to other players and their ability to get shots off on other points in the court.

Re: Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2013, 02:27:07 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8552
  • Tommy Points: 498
The media does not like Rondo, he is not a darling.   A lot here don't like Rondo and must be the people swayed by the media?

Re: Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2013, 02:36:58 PM »

Offline scaryjerry

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1636
  • Tommy Points: 72
When rondo was healthy...the team had expectations....rondo had expectations his teammates would make the easy shots he supplied them with.

He got hurt and there were 0 expectations...they were written off almost entirely and it turned into a spectical on national tv that they were pretty much done.

KG and Pierce are still on the team and along with Doc have rallied themselves and everyone around that

Re: Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2013, 02:57:25 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4424
  • Tommy Points: 487
  • bammokja


  Maybe Danny will talk to Doc about changing the offense to add in the uptempo play we've been seeing when Rondo comes back, and maybe he'll also make smartly pointed comments to the rest of the team that they should play hard all the time, not just when Rondo's out.

  Or are we now labeling trying harder when you have a bigger role in the offense and handle the ball more "team oriented"?

I just can't agree with your assesment of adding "uptempo" play. I find it absolutely false. This is the style of play he wanted to play with Rondo, yet for some reason it didn't happen... no use in pointing fingers now, but it simply didn't, despite it being completely in Rondo's power to make it happen.

What I do want to see though is a change in how our ball moves, and how much Rondo dominates the ball in our half-court sets, and how quickly he starts our offense. And it's not solely on him, Pierce has a hand in that aspect too.

And I'm one of the few out there that actually like Rondo off the ball, so would like to see more of that. I think his style of play could be more dangerous from those positions, particularly since he's a bit averse at taking players off the dribble for some reason despite it being an option for him in pretty much every single play.

Good points. This got me thinking on rondo dominating the ball, seemingly more this year at least to me.

What would happen if the celtics passed the ball more as they do now, even with rondo on the floor? What if the offense did not run through him so much?  if rondo is not handling the ball, what role would he have? He isn't a reliable shooter who can make shots when contested. He doesn't have a varied offensive skill set to make his own shot consistently. He certainly would not spread the floor and make defenses lay off other celtics.

What would be his role in an offense where he isn't dominating the ball handling? about the only thing I can think of is him running to the basket (ala Bradley cutting) to receive passes from others and get lay ups.

How would the celtics integrate rondo into an offense differently?

These are real questions I am posing to the board.
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2013, 02:57:40 PM »

Offline ssspence

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4621
  • Tommy Points: 264
  • James Naismith to Dickey Betts for the jam.....
When rondo was healthy...the team had expectations....rondo had expectations his teammates would make the easy shots he supplied them with.

He got hurt and there were 0 expectations...they were written off almost entirely and it turned into a spectical on national tv that they were pretty much done.

KG and Pierce are still on the team and along with Doc have rallied themselves and everyone around that

Killer rationalization.

Re: Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2013, 03:08:10 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23069
  • Tommy Points: 1082


  Maybe Danny will talk to Doc about changing the offense to add in the uptempo play we've been seeing when Rondo comes back, and maybe he'll also make smartly pointed comments to the rest of the team that they should play hard all the time, not just when Rondo's out.

  Or are we now labeling trying harder when you have a bigger role in the offense and handle the ball more "team oriented"?

I just can't agree with your assesment of adding "uptempo" play. I find it absolutely false. This is the style of play he wanted to play with Rondo, yet for some reason it didn't happen... no use in pointing fingers now, but it simply didn't, despite it being completely in Rondo's power to make it happen.

What I do want to see though is a change in how our ball moves, and how much Rondo dominates the ball in our half-court sets, and how quickly he starts our offense. And it's not solely on him, Pierce has a hand in that aspect too.

And I'm one of the few out there that actually like Rondo off the ball, so would like to see more of that. I think his style of play could be more dangerous from those positions, particularly since he's a bit averse at taking players off the dribble for some reason despite it being an option for him in pretty much every single play.

Good points. This got me thinking on rondo dominating the ball, seemingly more this year at least to me.

What would happen if the celtics passed the ball more as they do now, even with rondo on the floor? What if the offense did not run through him so much?  if rondo is not handling the ball, what role would he have? He isn't a reliable shooter who can make shots when contested. He doesn't have a varied offensive skill set to make his own shot consistently. He certainly would not spread the floor and make defenses lay off other celtics.

What would be his role in an offense where he isn't dominating the ball handling? about the only thing I can think of is him running to the basket (ala Bradley cutting) to receive passes from others and get lay ups.

How would the celtics integrate rondo into an offense differently?

These are real questions I am posing to the board.

  Put Rondo in this offense and swing the ball over to him with no defender on him and he has the option of taking an open shot, making a pass or an easy drive to the lane for a dishoff or a shot. He's also good at cutting without the ball.

Re: Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2013, 03:15:50 PM »

Offline saltlover

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2519
  • Tommy Points: 234
Irritated how short-sighted the media is with this narrative.  Did they not see the 6 game winning streak with Rondo?  Did they miss the 2nd half of last season?

Different season. Bradley was fully healthy except for the playoffs and Ray Allen was there to make all of Rondo's "get to the rim but pass off the sure 2 points" passes.

Oh come on.  Ignore the prior six-game winning streak with Rondo all you like.

That streak we won 4 home games and 2 road games compared to 5 and 1 in the current streak.

That streak we had a larger point differential in our six wins.

That streak we played against 4 teams who would be in the playoffs compared with 2 in this streak.

The winning percentage of the teams we bit in that streak was better than the winning percentage of teams in this streak.  And the strength of schedule looks better than it is because we played the Clippers without Chris Paul.

Seriously, that streak, a month ago, with Rondo, was more impressive that the current streak by most measurements of impressive wins.  I'm sorry it doesn't fit your "team-is-better-without-Rondo narrative", but don't ignore it.

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsBlog Forums.

Welcome to CelticsBlog