Author Topic: IF we keep this group intact, what BIG can we get? Dalembert!  (Read 3944 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: IF we keep this group intact, what BIG can we get? Dalembert!
« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2013, 07:17:56 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Sam Jones
  • **********************
  • Posts: 22638
  • Tommy Points: 1041
Rondo for Dalembert plus a pick?

I'm imagining a KG/Dalembert frontcourt...

Who would the Bucks flip Rondo to, and what extra piece coudl we get in addition to Dalembert in a 3-way?  Dragic, with Gortat going to ATL for Smith?



+1...I do that.

Dalembert helps us win now. A KG/Dalembert frontcourt would be intimidating defensively.

Dragic becomes our PG for now and the future.

Good for this year and next and Dalembert helps extend KGs career into next year.

I like that a lot better than trading PP or KG.

  That team won't go far. The upside isn't much higher than last year's Hawks/Pacers/Sixers. You might win some games if PP plays great but I don't know whether he can have a sustained run of good play in the postseason. It's interesting that there are simultaneous threads discussing whether we need a player significantly better than Rondo to contend and whether we can win now without Rondo *or* a player that's much better than him.

I think it ends up being a 'fit' thing. 

It happens that we have a bunch of players-an incredible depth of players-that are at star or substar (or dearly close to it) status that can initiate things with a basketball.  I would argue that a lineup where the offense could be initiated by any of 5 players is better than one where one person holds the ball and sets up the shot.  I think that offensively,

Barbosa/JET/Pierce/Green/KG

could get points whenever they wanted to; there would be a mismatch somewhere, even if it takes the 4th or 5th option.  That group needs to be able to execute at that level, but if they do, they can score at will on anybody.

  We'd have a team with 2 star to sub-star players and the rest are in the average(ish) or lower category. That lineup can't get points any time they want to, in fact as we're starting to see they struggle in a slower paced, half court game. You tend to see that a lot in the playoffs.

Pierce and KG are both star enough to facilitate an offense in the half court, especially if they have each other to play off of.

Two of Green, JET, and Barbosa have to have 6POY/3rd option-level years, and I think that's reasonable.  Green was starting PF on a WCF team; Barbosa and JET won 6POY.

Bradley and Lee start and set the tone with DEFENSE.

That's a nice top-7 rotation there.  Bass is a good #9 guy.

Add a C to backup KG or start next to him, and we have a strong contender, IMO. 

Trade Rondo for that guy:  Gortat, Okafor, or Dalembert.

  First of all PP and KG aren't going to run a good half court offense against top level defenses in the playoffs on a regular basis. A couple of games maybe, but that's it. Secondly, I wouldn't count on two backups on the same team having career level years.  And, again, good depth doesn't lead to long playoff runs, players that are capable of dominating playoff games do.

Re: IF we keep this group intact, what BIG can we get? Dalembert!
« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2013, 07:20:25 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9472
  • Tommy Points: 509
Milwaukee, is stacked with big men...
And the Warriors... and LA... and Utah...
I think Millsap, Hayward and a first are as hefty a return for Rondo as you're going to get. Doubt it's going to happen, though.
Managing Rilski Sportist to glory at http://www.buzzerbeater.com

Re: IF we keep this group intact, what BIG can we get? Dalembert!
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2013, 07:24:22 PM »

Offline arctic 3.0

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1504
  • Tommy Points: 230
Rondo for Dalembert plus a pick?

I'm imagining a KG/Dalembert frontcourt...

Who would the Bucks flip Rondo to, and what extra piece coudl we get in addition to Dalembert in a 3-way?  Dragic, with Gortat going to ATL for Smith?



+1...I do that.

Dalembert helps us win now. A KG/Dalembert frontcourt would be intimidating defensively.

Dragic becomes our PG for now and the future.

Good for this year and next and Dalembert helps extend KGs career into next year.

I like that a lot better than trading PP or KG.

  That team won't go far. The upside isn't much higher than last year's Hawks/Pacers/Sixers. You might win some games if PP plays great but I don't know whether he can have a sustained run of good play in the postseason. It's interesting that there are simultaneous threads discussing whether we need a player significantly better than Rondo to contend and whether we can win now without Rondo *or* a player that's much better than him.

I think it ends up being a 'fit' thing. 

It happens that we have a bunch of players-an incredible depth of players-that are at star or substar (or dearly close to it) status that can initiate things with a basketball.  I would argue that a lineup where the offense could be initiated by any of 5 players is better than one where one person holds the ball and sets up the shot.  I think that offensively,

Barbosa/JET/Pierce/Green/KG

could get points whenever they wanted to; there would be a mismatch somewhere, even if it takes the 4th or 5th option.  That group needs to be able to execute at that level, but if they do, they can score at will on anybody.

Let's look at defense.

We have possibly the best defensive backcourt tandem in Bradley and Lee.  Enough said.  And Pierce and Green can hold the SF duties as well as any tandem at the position in the league for 48 minutes.

KG is an all-NBA defender, still, IMO.  We've seen units with Bass be successful next to KG.  That leaves...

A need for a defensive big that can play competently on both sides of the ball. 

Dalembert fits the bill, as would Gortat for sure, and Okafor as well.  I think we could win the whole thing this year if we could swap Rondo for one of those guys.

Completely agree.

If we supposedly all in this year, a defensive, rebounding big helps us get over the top.

Rondo is not helping us win this year injured. He can help us win in trade.

Phoenix wants to lose this year. Give us Gortat and Dragic for Rondo and maybe an expiring from a third team. They are going after Josh Smith this summer. Rondo will be quite a selling point for them.

 If we don;t get a big, we're not gonna compete this year. If we don't get a big, it's time to trade our veteran assets for the future.

dragic and gortat for rondo is good a great return and i think phx would have to consider.
it helps the c's compete this year and stabilizes us for the next few...
I think that's hardly enough for Rondo.  An ok center and an ok PG?   yuck.  PHX would have to throw in 2 unprotected first rounders from 2014 and 2016 at least for me to entertain this
Dragic is really coming into his own. 14 pts, 6+ assists and 1.2 steals. He's got a nose for rebounds and has been registering double doubles regularly. I see him as kind of "rondo lite" with a better shot but untested in the playoffs.
I can't see him d up labron with a snarl on his face (really do love rondo) but I can see him running our o efficiently.
Add a young skilled vet center to the mix and you've got a deal I'd have to make.

And we get to keep PP and KG. We'd be a real tough out this year and next.

Suns incentive is that they suck even more to enhance their draft position and get Rondo to rebuild quickly and to entice Josh Smith to play with his buddy in the desert.

From our lips to Danny's ears. Not sure Suns do this though.
Dragic, barbossa
Bradley, lee, terry
Pierce, green
Kg, bass
Gortat, Collins, wilcox
 What stands out with this lineup is that
We all of a sudden have a lot of guard depth
And between kg, gortat bass and green we have solid depth at the 4 and 5

We could try and move terry and bass for another big or expiring deal.

Re: IF we keep this group intact, what BIG can we get? Dalembert!
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2013, 07:24:42 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9489
  • Tommy Points: 721
I'd rather Rondo retire here.

What is this, a retirement home? Why are people so hooked to seeing people retire in boston? Its ridiculous.

Because it feels like the opposite of corporatization of sports (and the rest of American life).
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: IF we keep this group intact, what BIG can we get? Dalembert!
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2013, 07:39:42 PM »

Offline WMark

  • Kelly Olynyk
  • Posts: 34
  • Tommy Points: 0
DA will wait to see who is bought out before making any of the deals suggested in this thread. 

Re: IF we keep this group intact, what BIG can we get? Dalembert!
« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2013, 08:23:28 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2461
  • Tommy Points: 250
Milwaukee, is stacked with big men...
And the Warriors... and LA... and Utah...
I think Millsap, Hayward and a first are as hefty a return for Rondo as you're going to get. Doubt it's going to happen, though.

+1...I like this too, as well as the Suns trade. Either, or for me.

The premise is that Rondo does us no good this year for sure, and at least part of next. If we keep PP and KG to compete this year and next year (which is my preference), we gotta get a big (Dalemebrt being, my least preferred, despite my OP), but he is good value, because we don't have to give up PP, KG, or RR and can still compete. I'd still rather Milsap or Gortat.

If we don't get a big, I don't think that we can climb that championship mountain, so we might as well cash in KG and PP while they still have decent value.. Not my preference, but gotta be pragmatic here.

Re: IF we keep this group intact, what BIG can we get? Dalembert!
« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2013, 08:42:28 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6175
  • Tommy Points: 382
  • Jeff Green
I'd rather Rondo retire here.

What is this, a retirement home? Why are people so hooked to seeing people retire in boston? Its ridiculous.

Because it feels like the opposite of corporatization of sports (and the rest of American life).

The Spurs do it, and they've been the most successful franchise in the league these past 15 years. We need to do the same. Look at their players.... Parker/Duncan/Ginobili/Green (came, won't leave)/Blair/Leonard/Splitter/de Colo/Diaw (came and stayed)/Jackson (back for second run).

The players are fiercely loyal to the franchise, AND vice versa and they have continuity EVERY year. And that's why they are one of the most successful franchises EVER.

And they're not a FA magnet or popular destination. They just have good management.

Jeez Louise... keep Bradley/Sully/Garnett/Pierce/Rondo and retire them ALL as Celtics.
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: IF we keep this group intact, what BIG can we get? Dalembert!
« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2013, 08:47:20 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2925
  • Tommy Points: 391
I'd rather Rondo retire here.

What is this, a retirement home? Why are people so hooked to seeing people retire in boston? Its ridiculous.

Because it feels like the opposite of corporatization of sports (and the rest of American life).

The Spurs do it, and they've been the most successful franchise in the league these past 15 years. We need to do the same. Look at their players.... Parker/Duncan/Ginobili/Green (came, won't leave)/Blair/Leonard/Splitter/de Colo/Diaw (came and stayed)/Jackson (back for second run).

The players are fiercely loyal to the franchise, AND vice versa and they have continuity EVERY year. And that's why they are one of the most successful franchises EVER.

And they're not a FA magnet or popular destination. They just have good management.

Jeez Louise... keep Bradley/Sully/Garnett/Pierce/Rondo and retire them ALL as Celtics.

The Celtics don't do it, they are the most successful...
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Re: IF we keep this group intact, what BIG can we get? Dalembert!
« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2013, 09:22:42 PM »

Offline Surferdad

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2985
  • Tommy Points: 148
  • "He fiddles...and diddles..."
I doubt we have any players we're willing to trade Milwaukee would have any interest in.  We could make a three team trade involving Memphis.

Bos: Out-Terry, Collins
     In-Dalembert

Mem: Out-Trade exception ($5m), 2nd rd pick
     In-Terry

Mil: Out-Dalembert
     In-Trade exception ($6.7m), 2nd rd pick (Mem)


Boston gets an additional front court body who could really help on defense and rebounding but doesn't really lose anything in guard production (Barbosa is playing better than Terry).

Milwaukee would do well to get a fairly decent sized trade exception, and a draft pick, for a player who is hardly playing for them and is expiring anyway.

Memphis gets a bench scorer to fill an obvious need for them.  They really don't have even one suitable back-up guard.  Giving up 2nd rd pick for Terry is a steal for them.

Edit:  Originally I had a Trade exception coming to Boston from Memphis, but apparently TE's are not transferrable in this manner.  This trade, as updated, is iffy I guess.  Dalembert for Terry is probably too little value.  Something in this vein woul probably be our best bet to trade for a big, however.

Maybe Terry would interest them. They could use a 2 guard.

If not, I think you're right, we need to get a third team involved.
I would rather not talk about trading Rondo.  If there is some way to get Dalembert here for Collins and a pick, I would do it.  Heck I might even throw in Melo if another asset is coming back.

Re: IF we keep this group intact, what BIG can we get? Dalembert!
« Reply #39 on: February 04, 2013, 09:27:27 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6175
  • Tommy Points: 382
  • Jeff Green
I'd rather Rondo retire here.

What is this, a retirement home? Why are people so hooked to seeing people retire in boston? Its ridiculous.

Because it feels like the opposite of corporatization of sports (and the rest of American life).

The Spurs do it, and they've been the most successful franchise in the league these past 15 years. We need to do the same. Look at their players.... Parker/Duncan/Ginobili/Green (came, won't leave)/Blair/Leonard/Splitter/de Colo/Diaw (came and stayed)/Jackson (back for second run).

The players are fiercely loyal to the franchise, AND vice versa and they have continuity EVERY year. And that's why they are one of the most successful franchises EVER.

And they're not a FA magnet or popular destination. They just have good management.

Jeez Louise... keep Bradley/Sully/Garnett/Pierce/Rondo and retire them ALL as Celtics.

The Celtics don't do it, they are the most successful...

Don't get lost in the past. The Spur are the best franchise in the NBA since they drafted Duncan.
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: IF we keep this group intact, what BIG can we get? Dalembert!
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2013, 08:29:22 AM »

Offline arctic 3.0

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1504
  • Tommy Points: 230
I woke up this morning thinking about the proposed phx/ bid trade
(Rondo, mello for gortat dragic).
IMO this is great return and makes sience for phx as well if:
They want smith, rondo is a huge selling point.
If they want to score in the lottery, drajic and gortat are their most productive players and are standing in the way of more losses. Rondo's a perfect acquisition.
A star player who will attract their number one off season target and not hinder their chances in this years lotto.
I can't stress enough how good I think drajic can become. Playing on this vet team with real leadership in kg snd pp all he has to do is be a competent ball handler. IMO he will prove to be much more then that. He may end up making us forget about rondo real quick.
As I always state in these rondo trade threads, I've loved rr's game from his rookie preseason, just think that if we get enough in return we have to think about moving  on. I've laid out my reasons in other threads and won't repeat myself here)

Re: IF we keep this group intact, what BIG can we get? Dalembert!
« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2013, 08:41:07 AM »

Offline krook

  • Rajon Rondo
  • Posts: 808
  • Tommy Points: 23
it seems like all celtics fans wants rondo out whoah!

Re: IF we keep this group intact, what BIG can we get? Dalembert!
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2013, 08:47:52 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9472
  • Tommy Points: 509
it seems like all celtics fans wants rondo out whoah!
It seems like all Celtics fans now realize he's not irreplaceable, and can be traded for value. Who would have thought.
Managing Rilski Sportist to glory at http://www.buzzerbeater.com

Re: IF we keep this group intact, what BIG can we get? Dalembert!
« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2013, 11:12:49 AM »

Offline krook

  • Rajon Rondo
  • Posts: 808
  • Tommy Points: 23
it seems like all celtics fans wants rondo out whoah!
It seems like all Celtics fans now realize he's not irreplaceable, and can be traded for value. Who would have thought.

yah

Re: IF we keep this group intact, what BIG can we get? Dalembert!
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2013, 05:30:25 PM »

Offline erisred

  • Jeff Green
  • Posts: 572
  • Tommy Points: 32
it seems like all celtics fans wants rondo out whoah!
I don't *want* Rondo out, but Gortat and Dragic for him is an awfully good haul. It fills two immediate needs with young vets who could help this team now and in the future at the cost of the best player in the deal, but one that won't help us this year. Tempting...but, in the NBA, "he who gets the best player, wins the deal" and Rondo is clearly the best player. But Rondo isn't healthy and Gortat/Dragic are...tough calculus here. Let Danny decide. ;)

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsBlog Forums.

Welcome to CelticsBlog