Why would Irving's salary be unavailable if he left?

[tenn_smoothie]

From ESPN,

The big iceberg on the Celtics' horizon is Irving's free agency next summer. If he leaves, Boston won't have any cap space to sign a replacement

This is probably common knowledge - just explain to me why, if Irving were to leave the Celts after this season and sign elsewhere as a free agent, would his 20M salary not become available at that point for the Celtics to sign their own free agent to replace him ?

[nickagneta]

No his salary is only subtracted from the team's total salary which is how they determine if you have cap space. It's almost a guarantee that even with subtracting Irving's $20 million that the Celtics will be over the salary cap, hence no cap space to sign someone of Kryrie's caliber.

[JSD]

NBA uses a soft cap, which means you can go over the cap only to sign your own players.


Hypothetical Example Using Fake Numbers:

$100,000,000 Cap

$117,000,000 Celtics total salary after going over cap to sign their guys.
 - $20,000,000 Kyrie’s salary

This would bring the Celtics to $97,000,000 with $3,000,000 to spend on the open market.


Again, these are fake but easy to understand numbers.

[dreamgreen]

You can thank the NBA for their terrible salary cap system.

[Vermont Green]

Another nuance to this is we can go over the cap (up to a point) to sign our own players such as Rozier, Brown, and Tatum but we cannot sign a new player unless we have cap space. 

According to Spotrac, our current salary is about $127M (active roster, not counting holds) and the Cap is $101M so even if we lose Irving, we are still over the cap.

I think this is part of why we signed Smart.  It was either have Smart or have nothing.  Having Smart means we can do trades if needed.  But we couldn't say "well instead of Smart for $11M, why don't we sign this other guy we like better for $8M.

[Moranis]

Another nuance to this is we can go over the cap (up to a point) to sign our own players such as Rozier, Brown, and Tatum but we cannot sign a new player unless we have cap space. 

According to Spotrac, our current salary is about $127M (active roster, not counting holds) and the Cap is $101M so even if we lose Irving, we are still over the cap.

I think this is part of why we signed Smart.  It was either have Smart or have nothing.  Having Smart means we can do trades if needed.  But we couldn't say "well instead of Smart for $11M, why don't we sign this other guy we like better for $8M.

well we actually could have done that since we could have use the MLE.

[BitterJim]

Another nuance to this is we can go over the cap (up to a point) to sign our own players such as Rozier, Brown, and Tatum but we cannot sign a new player unless we have cap space. 

According to Spotrac, our current salary is about $127M (active roster, not counting holds) and the Cap is $101M so even if we lose Irving, we are still over the cap.

I think this is part of why we signed Smart.  It was either have Smart or have nothing.  Having Smart means we can do trades if needed.  But we couldn't say "well instead of Smart for $11M, why don't we sign this other guy we like better for $8M.

well we actually could have done that since we could have use the MLE.

Yes, but that would have hard-capped us at the tax apron, greatly reducing team flexibility. It also puts more restrictions on the contract than Smart's has (ex: maximum number of years)

[Moranis]

Another nuance to this is we can go over the cap (up to a point) to sign our own players such as Rozier, Brown, and Tatum but we cannot sign a new player unless we have cap space. 

According to Spotrac, our current salary is about $127M (active roster, not counting holds) and the Cap is $101M so even if we lose Irving, we are still over the cap.

I think this is part of why we signed Smart.  It was either have Smart or have nothing.  Having Smart means we can do trades if needed.  But we couldn't say "well instead of Smart for $11M, why don't we sign this other guy we like better for $8M.

well we actually could have done that since we could have use the MLE.

Yes, but that would have hard-capped us at the tax apron, greatly reducing team flexibility. It also puts more restrictions on the contract than Smart's has (ex: maximum number of years)

Um, in that scenario Smart isn't on the team.

[BitterJim]

Another nuance to this is we can go over the cap (up to a point) to sign our own players such as Rozier, Brown, and Tatum but we cannot sign a new player unless we have cap space. 

According to Spotrac, our current salary is about $127M (active roster, not counting holds) and the Cap is $101M so even if we lose Irving, we are still over the cap.

I think this is part of why we signed Smart.  It was either have Smart or have nothing.  Having Smart means we can do trades if needed.  But we couldn't say "well instead of Smart for $11M, why don't we sign this other guy we like better for $8M.

well we actually could have done that since we could have use the MLE.

Yes, but that would have hard-capped us at the tax apron, greatly reducing team flexibility. It also puts more restrictions on the contract than Smart's has (ex: maximum number of years)

Um, in that scenario Smart isn't on the team.

Yup. And signing a player to the MLE instead of re-signing Smart would have other consequences.

The MLE salary signed instead would put restrictions on the team (like hard-capping us). The contract signed with the MLE would also have different restrictions than the one used to re-sign Smart (like fewer years), which would impact what player you could get with it.

[bogg]

You can thank the NBA for their terrible salary cap system.

Without the NBA's terrible salary cap system Boston would have no choice but to lose at least one of Horford/Hayward/Irving for nothing next summer. If they were operating under the NFL's rules Smart, Morris, Baynes, and likely one other contract would have had to be lost for nothing this past summer and the narrative around the Celtics would be about 18-19 being their final year together and whether they'd win a title in the only shot they'll get. 

[Roy H.]

Another nuance to this is we can go over the cap (up to a point) to sign our own players such as Rozier, Brown, and Tatum but we cannot sign a new player unless we have cap space. 

According to Spotrac, our current salary is about $127M (active roster, not counting holds) and the Cap is $101M so even if we lose Irving, we are still over the cap.

I think this is part of why we signed Smart.  It was either have Smart or have nothing.  Having Smart means we can do trades if needed.  But we couldn't say "well instead of Smart for $11M, why don't we sign this other guy we like better for $8M.

well we actually could have done that since we could have use the MLE.

Yes, but that would have hard-capped us at the tax apron, greatly reducing team flexibility. It also puts more restrictions on the contract than Smart's has (ex: maximum number of years)

Um, in that scenario Smart isn't on the team.

Yup. And signing a player to the MLE instead of re-signing Smart would have other consequences.

The MLE salary signed instead would put restrictions on the team (like hard-capping us). The contract signed with the MLE would also have different restrictions than the one used to re-sign Smart (like fewer years), which would impact what player you could get with it.

The MLE allows 4 year contracts, so there’s no real difference in that regard.

[tenn_smoothie]

I hear the plus and minus of this modern CBA - another question I have is, what was the CBA or its equivalent in the 80's with Bird's Celtics and the 70's with Cowens' group. I was a fan during those eras and certainly remember the bitterness of losing Chaney and Silas to free agency, but there was much less hand wringing back then over keeping a great team intact. Why is that ?

[droopdog7]

From ESPN,

The big iceberg on the Celtics' horizon is Irving's free agency next summer. If he leaves, Boston won't have any cap space to sign a replacement

This is probably common knowledge - just explain to me why, if Irving were to leave the Celts after this season and sign elsewhere as a free agent, would his 20M salary not become available at that point for the Celtics to sign their own free agent to replace him ?

Beacuse we would be over the salary cap if we resigned him or not. 

[trickybilly]

You can thank the NBA for their terrible salary cap system.

I actually think it is one of the best, nuanced, and fair systems in all sports (except the owners still get too much).

What's your problem with it?

[KungPoweChicken]

If Irving leaves, the Celtics probably lock up Rozier to a long-term contract.