Poll

Would you trade Irving for Wall?

Yes
2 (2.8%)
No
67 (93.1%)
Maybe
3 (4.2%)

Total Members Voted: 72

Author Topic: Trade idea: Irving for Wall  (Read 3390 times)

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Re: Trade idea: Irving for Wall
« Reply #75 on: September 12, 2018, 09:01:41 AM »

Offline playdream

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When Kyrie got drafted it was Lebron's team's wrack, not his team, then they made him believe it's going to be his team then Lebron came back again, we all know what kind of player Lebron is: he likes to pass the ball but not the power, plus Cavs front office, it's really a viral enviroment for Kyrie

At least until now i don't see any chemistry problem with him on the team, only good things actually, so why not wait and see before you bash him?


Re: Trade idea: Irving for Wall
« Reply #76 on: September 12, 2018, 09:22:09 AM »

Online Androslav

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When Kyrie got drafted it was Lebron's team's wrack, not his team, then they made him believe it's going to be his team then Lebron came back again, we all know what kind of player Lebron is: he likes to pass the ball but not the power, plus Cavs front office, it's really a viral enviroment for Kyrie

At least until now i don't see any chemistry problem with him on the team, only good things actually, so why not wait and see before you bash him?

Yes, it feels like he is evoking him to fail.
And that is the exact opposite of rooting for a team or cheering for a guy.
I explain that as a behaviour of another teams fan.
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Trade idea: Irving for Wall
« Reply #77 on: September 12, 2018, 11:00:46 AM »

Online Moranis

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Which Deng thread? I didn't see anything in the buyout thread but I'd be interested to read that.
it was in that one I think but a simple internet search of Deng in Cleveland and they come up. It was about the locker room in general and not specifically Irving, but Irving was the best player on that team and obviously contributed to that situation.

I didn't see anything in that thread about it and googling what you're talking about yielded a bunch of results of Luol Deng saying the article about him allegedly complaining about the Cavs locker room was bunk

Quote
“It’s a distraction,” he said. “I mean all this stuff that I hear, but when we’re in the locker room with these guys every day, they love each other. I can’t say one word or one incident, and when we get on the court, we never think twice about it.”
http://www.morningjournal.com/sports/20140419/cleveland-cavaliers-luol-deng-says-kyrie-irving-and-dion-waiters-love-each-other

Quote
"I’m disappointed that there’s an article like that. It doesn’t make sense to me saying, ‘close friends.’ Just name whoever told you that if you do have somebody, but I feel like people are always looking for something to write about. I’m new here, so obviously writing an article like that fits right in saying that’s how I feel. I’ve said it many times. I’m excited for the opportunity. I’m happy to be here."
https://www.fearthesword.com/2014/2/2/5370192/nba-rumors-luol-deng-and-others-express-frustration-with-cleveland

Quote
"I don't say anything outside of this locker room to my friends, and second of all, none of my friends would ever talk to reporters,"
https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/02/luol_deng_says_he_didnt_say_an.html

In terms of the question of whether Kyrie had issues in the locker room pre-Lebron, here are quotes from your links:

Quote
Most problems center around Kyrie and Dion Waiters, and both have attitudes that rub the team the wrong way.

- One teammate said that Irving "acts like he doesn't care"

Quote
The Cleveland Cavaliers locker room appears to be kind of a mess. Shortly after trying to figure out if Kyrie does or does not want out of Cleveland, and how he could go about do it...

Quote
Kyrie Irving allegedly wants to fire his agent, because his agent wants him to stay in Cleveland and Kyrie wants to go to New York.

Ther were A LOT of chemistry issues in Cleveland, many circling around Kyrie. It was a terrible locker room — Waiters, Bynum and Kyrie all had issues, independently and with each other.  Again, outside of last year, contributing positively to the lock room hasn’t been a strength of Kyrie’s. Nothing really separates him from Wall in that specific regard.

Wall has legit issues with Beal. I don’t know of Kyrie having beef with another star on his own team.

Except for Lebron? He clearly “has beef” there.

If you were working at a law firm and a fellow employee tried to cost you your job, or the firm let you go because of the personal vendetta of a partner, you would probably ‘have beef’ too.

So, your argument is that Kyrie doesn’t beef with stars on his own team except when he’s beefing with stars on his own team?

Also, neither of the things in your metaphorical hypothetical are accurate, at least in terms of what allegedly caused the friction.
Yep, Irving didn't want James to even return.  He always had an issue with him.  So he went from beefing with Waiters to beefing with James.

Funny, when people bring up MJ, or Kobe taking Tatum under his wing, I don’t see you guys chiming in that Kobe mentoring Tatum is a bad thing because he had issues with teammates.

Seems like you just hold it against guys you don’t like.

Perhaps you can show me where you said KG was a bad teammate Roy, since he punched Wally Z in Minny. And Moranis, why don’t you point out where you’ve recently called Lebron a bad teammate, since he beefed with Kyrie?
James has a 15 year history in this league in which Irving is the only player that has ever really had an issue with James (now if you want to call James a "coach killer", that is perfectly reasonable given his history).  Irving has a much shorter history and has beefed with players aside from James.  When you look at the totality of the situation, Irving is the one that has a teammate problem, not James. 

Re: Trade idea: Irving for Wall
« Reply #78 on: September 12, 2018, 11:59:37 AM »

Offline smokeablount

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Which Deng thread? I didn't see anything in the buyout thread but I'd be interested to read that.
it was in that one I think but a simple internet search of Deng in Cleveland and they come up. It was about the locker room in general and not specifically Irving, but Irving was the best player on that team and obviously contributed to that situation.

I didn't see anything in that thread about it and googling what you're talking about yielded a bunch of results of Luol Deng saying the article about him allegedly complaining about the Cavs locker room was bunk

Quote
“It’s a distraction,” he said. “I mean all this stuff that I hear, but when we’re in the locker room with these guys every day, they love each other. I can’t say one word or one incident, and when we get on the court, we never think twice about it.”
http://www.morningjournal.com/sports/20140419/cleveland-cavaliers-luol-deng-says-kyrie-irving-and-dion-waiters-love-each-other

Quote
"I’m disappointed that there’s an article like that. It doesn’t make sense to me saying, ‘close friends.’ Just name whoever told you that if you do have somebody, but I feel like people are always looking for something to write about. I’m new here, so obviously writing an article like that fits right in saying that’s how I feel. I’ve said it many times. I’m excited for the opportunity. I’m happy to be here."
https://www.fearthesword.com/2014/2/2/5370192/nba-rumors-luol-deng-and-others-express-frustration-with-cleveland

Quote
"I don't say anything outside of this locker room to my friends, and second of all, none of my friends would ever talk to reporters,"
https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/02/luol_deng_says_he_didnt_say_an.html

In terms of the question of whether Kyrie had issues in the locker room pre-Lebron, here are quotes from your links:

Quote
Most problems center around Kyrie and Dion Waiters, and both have attitudes that rub the team the wrong way.

- One teammate said that Irving "acts like he doesn't care"

Quote
The Cleveland Cavaliers locker room appears to be kind of a mess. Shortly after trying to figure out if Kyrie does or does not want out of Cleveland, and how he could go about do it...

Quote
Kyrie Irving allegedly wants to fire his agent, because his agent wants him to stay in Cleveland and Kyrie wants to go to New York.

Ther were A LOT of chemistry issues in Cleveland, many circling around Kyrie. It was a terrible locker room — Waiters, Bynum and Kyrie all had issues, independently and with each other.  Again, outside of last year, contributing positively to the lock room hasn’t been a strength of Kyrie’s. Nothing really separates him from Wall in that specific regard.

Wall has legit issues with Beal. I don’t know of Kyrie having beef with another star on his own team.

Except for Lebron? He clearly “has beef” there.

If you were working at a law firm and a fellow employee tried to cost you your job, or the firm let you go because of the personal vendetta of a partner, you would probably ‘have beef’ too.

So, your argument is that Kyrie doesn’t beef with stars on his own team except when he’s beefing with stars on his own team?

Also, neither of the things in your metaphorical hypothetical are accurate, at least in terms of what allegedly caused the friction.
Yep, Irving didn't want James to even return.  He always had an issue with him.  So he went from beefing with Waiters to beefing with James.

Funny, when people bring up MJ, or Kobe taking Tatum under his wing, I don’t see you guys chiming in that Kobe mentoring Tatum is a bad thing because he had issues with teammates.

Seems like you just hold it against guys you don’t like.

Perhaps you can show me where you said KG was a bad teammate Roy, since he punched Wally Z in Minny. And Moranis, why don’t you point out where you’ve recently called Lebron a bad teammate, since he beefed with Kyrie?
James has a 15 year history in this league in which Irving is the only player that has ever really had an issue with James (now if you want to call James a "coach killer", that is perfectly reasonable given his history).  Irving has a much shorter history and has beefed with players aside from James.  When you look at the totality of the situation, Irving is the one that has a teammate problem, not James.

Just because a guy quarrels with teammates doesn't mean he's got issues to me.  Like Jimmy Butler beefing with teammates in Minny- if it's true that he's trying to get guys to give more effort, is that really a knock? 

Kyrie wanted to be the man and Lebron was in the way.  Lebron wanted to be the man and Blatt was in the way.  Wall wants to be the man and he's clashing with Beal because he's threatened that Beal will get in the way.  It's a common thread, as is superstars clashing with teammates, so I'm just not sure what the big deal is.  If it weren't Kyrie, you wouldn't be saying anything.
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
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But deliver us from losing

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Re: Trade idea: Irving for Wall
« Reply #79 on: September 12, 2018, 01:47:50 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Which Deng thread? I didn't see anything in the buyout thread but I'd be interested to read that.
it was in that one I think but a simple internet search of Deng in Cleveland and they come up. It was about the locker room in general and not specifically Irving, but Irving was the best player on that team and obviously contributed to that situation.

I didn't see anything in that thread about it and googling what you're talking about yielded a bunch of results of Luol Deng saying the article about him allegedly complaining about the Cavs locker room was bunk

Quote
“It’s a distraction,” he said. “I mean all this stuff that I hear, but when we’re in the locker room with these guys every day, they love each other. I can’t say one word or one incident, and when we get on the court, we never think twice about it.”
http://www.morningjournal.com/sports/20140419/cleveland-cavaliers-luol-deng-says-kyrie-irving-and-dion-waiters-love-each-other

Quote
"I’m disappointed that there’s an article like that. It doesn’t make sense to me saying, ‘close friends.’ Just name whoever told you that if you do have somebody, but I feel like people are always looking for something to write about. I’m new here, so obviously writing an article like that fits right in saying that’s how I feel. I’ve said it many times. I’m excited for the opportunity. I’m happy to be here."
https://www.fearthesword.com/2014/2/2/5370192/nba-rumors-luol-deng-and-others-express-frustration-with-cleveland

Quote
"I don't say anything outside of this locker room to my friends, and second of all, none of my friends would ever talk to reporters,"
https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/02/luol_deng_says_he_didnt_say_an.html

In terms of the question of whether Kyrie had issues in the locker room pre-Lebron, here are quotes from your links:

Quote
Most problems center around Kyrie and Dion Waiters, and both have attitudes that rub the team the wrong way.

- One teammate said that Irving "acts like he doesn't care"

Quote
The Cleveland Cavaliers locker room appears to be kind of a mess. Shortly after trying to figure out if Kyrie does or does not want out of Cleveland, and how he could go about do it...

Quote
Kyrie Irving allegedly wants to fire his agent, because his agent wants him to stay in Cleveland and Kyrie wants to go to New York.

Ther were A LOT of chemistry issues in Cleveland, many circling around Kyrie. It was a terrible locker room — Waiters, Bynum and Kyrie all had issues, independently and with each other.  Again, outside of last year, contributing positively to the lock room hasn’t been a strength of Kyrie’s. Nothing really separates him from Wall in that specific regard.

Wall has legit issues with Beal. I don’t know of Kyrie having beef with another star on his own team.

Except for Lebron? He clearly “has beef” there.

If you were working at a law firm and a fellow employee tried to cost you your job, or the firm let you go because of the personal vendetta of a partner, you would probably ‘have beef’ too.

So, your argument is that Kyrie doesn’t beef with stars on his own team except when he’s beefing with stars on his own team?

Also, neither of the things in your metaphorical hypothetical are accurate, at least in terms of what allegedly caused the friction.
Yep, Irving didn't want James to even return.  He always had an issue with him.  So he went from beefing with Waiters to beefing with James.

Funny, when people bring up MJ, or Kobe taking Tatum under his wing, I don’t see you guys chiming in that Kobe mentoring Tatum is a bad thing because he had issues with teammates.

Seems like you just hold it against guys you don’t like.

Perhaps you can show me where you said KG was a bad teammate Roy, since he punched Wally Z in Minny. And Moranis, why don’t you point out where you’ve recently called Lebron a bad teammate, since he beefed with Kyrie?
James has a 15 year history in this league in which Irving is the only player that has ever really had an issue with James (now if you want to call James a "coach killer", that is perfectly reasonable given his history).  Irving has a much shorter history and has beefed with players aside from James.  When you look at the totality of the situation, Irving is the one that has a teammate problem, not James.

Kind of ridiculous to say Lebron hasn't had any other issues with teammates in his 15 year career when he literally had issues this past season and teammates said he was stat hunting. Obviously that was after Irving was gone.

He also has a history of real mature stuff like this with teammates https://twitter.com/kingjames/status/564281844271947777?s=21

Re: Trade idea: Irving for Wall
« Reply #80 on: September 12, 2018, 02:20:57 PM »

Offline playdream

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Which Deng thread? I didn't see anything in the buyout thread but I'd be interested to read that.
it was in that one I think but a simple internet search of Deng in Cleveland and they come up. It was about the locker room in general and not specifically Irving, but Irving was the best player on that team and obviously contributed to that situation.

I didn't see anything in that thread about it and googling what you're talking about yielded a bunch of results of Luol Deng saying the article about him allegedly complaining about the Cavs locker room was bunk

Quote
“It’s a distraction,” he said. “I mean all this stuff that I hear, but when we’re in the locker room with these guys every day, they love each other. I can’t say one word or one incident, and when we get on the court, we never think twice about it.”
http://www.morningjournal.com/sports/20140419/cleveland-cavaliers-luol-deng-says-kyrie-irving-and-dion-waiters-love-each-other

Quote
"I’m disappointed that there’s an article like that. It doesn’t make sense to me saying, ‘close friends.’ Just name whoever told you that if you do have somebody, but I feel like people are always looking for something to write about. I’m new here, so obviously writing an article like that fits right in saying that’s how I feel. I’ve said it many times. I’m excited for the opportunity. I’m happy to be here."
https://www.fearthesword.com/2014/2/2/5370192/nba-rumors-luol-deng-and-others-express-frustration-with-cleveland

Quote
"I don't say anything outside of this locker room to my friends, and second of all, none of my friends would ever talk to reporters,"
https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/02/luol_deng_says_he_didnt_say_an.html

In terms of the question of whether Kyrie had issues in the locker room pre-Lebron, here are quotes from your links:

Quote
Most problems center around Kyrie and Dion Waiters, and both have attitudes that rub the team the wrong way.

- One teammate said that Irving "acts like he doesn't care"

Quote
The Cleveland Cavaliers locker room appears to be kind of a mess. Shortly after trying to figure out if Kyrie does or does not want out of Cleveland, and how he could go about do it...

Quote
Kyrie Irving allegedly wants to fire his agent, because his agent wants him to stay in Cleveland and Kyrie wants to go to New York.

Ther were A LOT of chemistry issues in Cleveland, many circling around Kyrie. It was a terrible locker room — Waiters, Bynum and Kyrie all had issues, independently and with each other.  Again, outside of last year, contributing positively to the lock room hasn’t been a strength of Kyrie’s. Nothing really separates him from Wall in that specific regard.

Wall has legit issues with Beal. I don’t know of Kyrie having beef with another star on his own team.

Except for Lebron? He clearly “has beef” there.

If you were working at a law firm and a fellow employee tried to cost you your job, or the firm let you go because of the personal vendetta of a partner, you would probably ‘have beef’ too.

So, your argument is that Kyrie doesn’t beef with stars on his own team except when he’s beefing with stars on his own team?

Also, neither of the things in your metaphorical hypothetical are accurate, at least in terms of what allegedly caused the friction.
Yep, Irving didn't want James to even return.  He always had an issue with him.  So he went from beefing with Waiters to beefing with James.

Funny, when people bring up MJ, or Kobe taking Tatum under his wing, I don’t see you guys chiming in that Kobe mentoring Tatum is a bad thing because he had issues with teammates.

Seems like you just hold it against guys you don’t like.

Perhaps you can show me where you said KG was a bad teammate Roy, since he punched Wally Z in Minny. And Moranis, why don’t you point out where you’ve recently called Lebron a bad teammate, since he beefed with Kyrie?
James has a 15 year history in this league in which Irving is the only player that has ever really had an issue with James (now if you want to call James a "coach killer", that is perfectly reasonable given his history).  Irving has a much shorter history and has beefed with players aside from James.  When you look at the totality of the situation, Irving is the one that has a teammate problem, not James.
James chooses his team/teammates/Coach/even GM , so yeah why will he be having those issues? just yell at them or get them out of the team you know?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph7qFvAIRCk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BUMjQByXsA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7lPSn03EfA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNgf6fd88g8

Talking about mutual respect and being a good teammate
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 02:39:26 PM by playdream »

Re: Trade idea: Irving for Wall
« Reply #81 on: September 12, 2018, 04:19:27 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Which Deng thread? I didn't see anything in the buyout thread but I'd be interested to read that.
it was in that one I think but a simple internet search of Deng in Cleveland and they come up. It was about the locker room in general and not specifically Irving, but Irving was the best player on that team and obviously contributed to that situation.

I didn't see anything in that thread about it and googling what you're talking about yielded a bunch of results of Luol Deng saying the article about him allegedly complaining about the Cavs locker room was bunk

Quote
“It’s a distraction,” he said. “I mean all this stuff that I hear, but when we’re in the locker room with these guys every day, they love each other. I can’t say one word or one incident, and when we get on the court, we never think twice about it.”
http://www.morningjournal.com/sports/20140419/cleveland-cavaliers-luol-deng-says-kyrie-irving-and-dion-waiters-love-each-other

Quote
"I’m disappointed that there’s an article like that. It doesn’t make sense to me saying, ‘close friends.’ Just name whoever told you that if you do have somebody, but I feel like people are always looking for something to write about. I’m new here, so obviously writing an article like that fits right in saying that’s how I feel. I’ve said it many times. I’m excited for the opportunity. I’m happy to be here."
https://www.fearthesword.com/2014/2/2/5370192/nba-rumors-luol-deng-and-others-express-frustration-with-cleveland

Quote
"I don't say anything outside of this locker room to my friends, and second of all, none of my friends would ever talk to reporters,"
https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/02/luol_deng_says_he_didnt_say_an.html

In terms of the question of whether Kyrie had issues in the locker room pre-Lebron, here are quotes from your links:

Quote
Most problems center around Kyrie and Dion Waiters, and both have attitudes that rub the team the wrong way.

- One teammate said that Irving "acts like he doesn't care"

Quote
The Cleveland Cavaliers locker room appears to be kind of a mess. Shortly after trying to figure out if Kyrie does or does not want out of Cleveland, and how he could go about do it...

Quote
Kyrie Irving allegedly wants to fire his agent, because his agent wants him to stay in Cleveland and Kyrie wants to go to New York.

Ther were A LOT of chemistry issues in Cleveland, many circling around Kyrie. It was a terrible locker room — Waiters, Bynum and Kyrie all had issues, independently and with each other.  Again, outside of last year, contributing positively to the lock room hasn’t been a strength of Kyrie’s. Nothing really separates him from Wall in that specific regard.

Wall has legit issues with Beal. I don’t know of Kyrie having beef with another star on his own team.

Except for Lebron? He clearly “has beef” there.

If you were working at a law firm and a fellow employee tried to cost you your job, or the firm let you go because of the personal vendetta of a partner, you would probably ‘have beef’ too.

So, your argument is that Kyrie doesn’t beef with stars on his own team except when he’s beefing with stars on his own team?

Also, neither of the things in your metaphorical hypothetical are accurate, at least in terms of what allegedly caused the friction.
Yep, Irving didn't want James to even return.  He always had an issue with him.  So he went from beefing with Waiters to beefing with James.

Funny, when people bring up MJ, or Kobe taking Tatum under his wing, I don’t see you guys chiming in that Kobe mentoring Tatum is a bad thing because he had issues with teammates.

Seems like you just hold it against guys you don’t like.

Perhaps you can show me where you said KG was a bad teammate Roy, since he punched Wally Z in Minny. And Moranis, why don’t you point out where you’ve recently called Lebron a bad teammate, since he beefed with Kyrie?
James has a 15 year history in this league in which Irving is the only player that has ever really had an issue with James (now if you want to call James a "coach killer", that is perfectly reasonable given his history).  Irving has a much shorter history and has beefed with players aside from James.  When you look at the totality of the situation, Irving is the one that has a teammate problem, not James.

Yeah, Moranis, we disagree a lot, but given the fact that you are normally reasonable and articulate (even if I disagree with you), you can't really believe this.

He's had problems with Love. He's had problems with Bosh. He's had problems with Chalmers, JR Smith, Shumphert, and Hughes. He and Wade are friends, but there were pretty clear signals about his displeasure with the way Wade sat out games in his last season in Miami.

James is normally pretty passive aggressive, which means he doesn't call out his teammates to the media. But that doesn't mean he isn't a prickly guy to be around. I don't think he is the worst teammate in the league, but he's had his share of teammate problems.

I think Kyrie Irving is a dominate personality that prefers open dialogue, which is something James doesn't really do. I think Irving is charismatic and likeable (young Celtic players seem to love him), but that doesn't mean he always gets along with everyone.

Re: Trade idea: Irving for Wall
« Reply #82 on: September 12, 2018, 05:13:45 PM »

Offline celticsclay

  • Satch Sanders
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Which Deng thread? I didn't see anything in the buyout thread but I'd be interested to read that.
it was in that one I think but a simple internet search of Deng in Cleveland and they come up. It was about the locker room in general and not specifically Irving, but Irving was the best player on that team and obviously contributed to that situation.

I didn't see anything in that thread about it and googling what you're talking about yielded a bunch of results of Luol Deng saying the article about him allegedly complaining about the Cavs locker room was bunk

Quote
“It’s a distraction,” he said. “I mean all this stuff that I hear, but when we’re in the locker room with these guys every day, they love each other. I can’t say one word or one incident, and when we get on the court, we never think twice about it.”
http://www.morningjournal.com/sports/20140419/cleveland-cavaliers-luol-deng-says-kyrie-irving-and-dion-waiters-love-each-other

Quote
"I’m disappointed that there’s an article like that. It doesn’t make sense to me saying, ‘close friends.’ Just name whoever told you that if you do have somebody, but I feel like people are always looking for something to write about. I’m new here, so obviously writing an article like that fits right in saying that’s how I feel. I’ve said it many times. I’m excited for the opportunity. I’m happy to be here."
https://www.fearthesword.com/2014/2/2/5370192/nba-rumors-luol-deng-and-others-express-frustration-with-cleveland

Quote
"I don't say anything outside of this locker room to my friends, and second of all, none of my friends would ever talk to reporters,"
https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/02/luol_deng_says_he_didnt_say_an.html

In terms of the question of whether Kyrie had issues in the locker room pre-Lebron, here are quotes from your links:

Quote
Most problems center around Kyrie and Dion Waiters, and both have attitudes that rub the team the wrong way.

- One teammate said that Irving "acts like he doesn't care"

Quote
The Cleveland Cavaliers locker room appears to be kind of a mess. Shortly after trying to figure out if Kyrie does or does not want out of Cleveland, and how he could go about do it...

Quote
Kyrie Irving allegedly wants to fire his agent, because his agent wants him to stay in Cleveland and Kyrie wants to go to New York.

Ther were A LOT of chemistry issues in Cleveland, many circling around Kyrie. It was a terrible locker room — Waiters, Bynum and Kyrie all had issues, independently and with each other.  Again, outside of last year, contributing positively to the lock room hasn’t been a strength of Kyrie’s. Nothing really separates him from Wall in that specific regard.

Wall has legit issues with Beal. I don’t know of Kyrie having beef with another star on his own team.

Except for Lebron? He clearly “has beef” there.

If you were working at a law firm and a fellow employee tried to cost you your job, or the firm let you go because of the personal vendetta of a partner, you would probably ‘have beef’ too.

So, your argument is that Kyrie doesn’t beef with stars on his own team except when he’s beefing with stars on his own team?

Also, neither of the things in your metaphorical hypothetical are accurate, at least in terms of what allegedly caused the friction.
Yep, Irving didn't want James to even return.  He always had an issue with him.  So he went from beefing with Waiters to beefing with James.

Funny, when people bring up MJ, or Kobe taking Tatum under his wing, I don’t see you guys chiming in that Kobe mentoring Tatum is a bad thing because he had issues with teammates.

Seems like you just hold it against guys you don’t like.

Perhaps you can show me where you said KG was a bad teammate Roy, since he punched Wally Z in Minny. And Moranis, why don’t you point out where you’ve recently called Lebron a bad teammate, since he beefed with Kyrie?
James has a 15 year history in this league in which Irving is the only player that has ever really had an issue with James (now if you want to call James a "coach killer", that is perfectly reasonable given his history).  Irving has a much shorter history and has beefed with players aside from James.  When you look at the totality of the situation, Irving is the one that has a teammate problem, not James.

Yeah, Moranis, we disagree a lot, but given the fact that you are normally reasonable and articulate (even if I disagree with you), you can't really believe this.

He's had problems with Love. He's had problems with Bosh. He's had problems with Chalmers, JR Smith, Shumphert, and Hughes. He and Wade are friends, but there were pretty clear signals about his displeasure with the way Wade sat out games in his last season in Miami.

James is normally pretty passive aggressive, which means he doesn't call out his teammates to the media. But that doesn't mean he isn't a prickly guy to be around. I don't think he is the worst teammate in the league, but he's had his share of teammate problems.

I think Kyrie Irving is a dominate personality that prefers open dialogue, which is something James doesn't really do. I think Irving is charismatic and likeable (young Celtic players seem to love him), but that doesn't mean he always gets along with everyone.

Yea I don't think anyone can say he has never had an issue. That is a bit silly (and I wouldn't make that claim about any of our celtics players that had 15 years in the league either. I am interested to see how Lebron is as a teammate as he was probably the most petulant of his career last season and certainly played a significant role in horrible team chemistry

Re: Trade idea: Irving for Wall
« Reply #83 on: September 12, 2018, 06:20:41 PM »

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KG didn't exactly have a sterling locker room reputation before coming to Boston, yet, he changed the entire culture of the Celtics and became a tremendous influence in the locker room. Sure, it's fair to critique Irving's locker room presence prior to coming to Boston but, the important part of judging him will be now, in Boston, where this far, he has been an excellent role model and developmental influence to the C's youth. If he continues that this year and beyond, it will more than likely make people forget all about his problems in Cleveland, much like KG's time in Minny was put in the past to be forgotten.

Re: Trade idea: Irving for Wall
« Reply #84 on: September 13, 2018, 10:28:33 AM »

Online Moranis

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Which Deng thread? I didn't see anything in the buyout thread but I'd be interested to read that.
it was in that one I think but a simple internet search of Deng in Cleveland and they come up. It was about the locker room in general and not specifically Irving, but Irving was the best player on that team and obviously contributed to that situation.

I didn't see anything in that thread about it and googling what you're talking about yielded a bunch of results of Luol Deng saying the article about him allegedly complaining about the Cavs locker room was bunk

Quote
“It’s a distraction,” he said. “I mean all this stuff that I hear, but when we’re in the locker room with these guys every day, they love each other. I can’t say one word or one incident, and when we get on the court, we never think twice about it.”
http://www.morningjournal.com/sports/20140419/cleveland-cavaliers-luol-deng-says-kyrie-irving-and-dion-waiters-love-each-other

Quote
"I’m disappointed that there’s an article like that. It doesn’t make sense to me saying, ‘close friends.’ Just name whoever told you that if you do have somebody, but I feel like people are always looking for something to write about. I’m new here, so obviously writing an article like that fits right in saying that’s how I feel. I’ve said it many times. I’m excited for the opportunity. I’m happy to be here."
https://www.fearthesword.com/2014/2/2/5370192/nba-rumors-luol-deng-and-others-express-frustration-with-cleveland

Quote
"I don't say anything outside of this locker room to my friends, and second of all, none of my friends would ever talk to reporters,"
https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/02/luol_deng_says_he_didnt_say_an.html

In terms of the question of whether Kyrie had issues in the locker room pre-Lebron, here are quotes from your links:

Quote
Most problems center around Kyrie and Dion Waiters, and both have attitudes that rub the team the wrong way.

- One teammate said that Irving "acts like he doesn't care"

Quote
The Cleveland Cavaliers locker room appears to be kind of a mess. Shortly after trying to figure out if Kyrie does or does not want out of Cleveland, and how he could go about do it...

Quote
Kyrie Irving allegedly wants to fire his agent, because his agent wants him to stay in Cleveland and Kyrie wants to go to New York.

Ther were A LOT of chemistry issues in Cleveland, many circling around Kyrie. It was a terrible locker room — Waiters, Bynum and Kyrie all had issues, independently and with each other.  Again, outside of last year, contributing positively to the lock room hasn’t been a strength of Kyrie’s. Nothing really separates him from Wall in that specific regard.

Wall has legit issues with Beal. I don’t know of Kyrie having beef with another star on his own team.

Except for Lebron? He clearly “has beef” there.

If you were working at a law firm and a fellow employee tried to cost you your job, or the firm let you go because of the personal vendetta of a partner, you would probably ‘have beef’ too.

So, your argument is that Kyrie doesn’t beef with stars on his own team except when he’s beefing with stars on his own team?

Also, neither of the things in your metaphorical hypothetical are accurate, at least in terms of what allegedly caused the friction.
Yep, Irving didn't want James to even return.  He always had an issue with him.  So he went from beefing with Waiters to beefing with James.

Funny, when people bring up MJ, or Kobe taking Tatum under his wing, I don’t see you guys chiming in that Kobe mentoring Tatum is a bad thing because he had issues with teammates.

Seems like you just hold it against guys you don’t like.

Perhaps you can show me where you said KG was a bad teammate Roy, since he punched Wally Z in Minny. And Moranis, why don’t you point out where you’ve recently called Lebron a bad teammate, since he beefed with Kyrie?
James has a 15 year history in this league in which Irving is the only player that has ever really had an issue with James (now if you want to call James a "coach killer", that is perfectly reasonable given his history).  Irving has a much shorter history and has beefed with players aside from James.  When you look at the totality of the situation, Irving is the one that has a teammate problem, not James.

Yeah, Moranis, we disagree a lot, but given the fact that you are normally reasonable and articulate (even if I disagree with you), you can't really believe this.

He's had problems with Love. He's had problems with Bosh. He's had problems with Chalmers, JR Smith, Shumphert, and Hughes. He and Wade are friends, but there were pretty clear signals about his displeasure with the way Wade sat out games in his last season in Miami.

James is normally pretty passive aggressive, which means he doesn't call out his teammates to the media. But that doesn't mean he isn't a prickly guy to be around. I don't think he is the worst teammate in the league, but he's had his share of teammate problems.

I think Kyrie Irving is a dominate personality that prefers open dialogue, which is something James doesn't really do. I think Irving is charismatic and likeable (young Celtic players seem to love him), but that doesn't mean he always gets along with everyone.
I don't consider disagreements here and there to be issues.  If that was the case, then every team would have considerable issues all of the time.  I mean a couple of weeks ago, Bosh was talking about playing for the Lakers and reuniting with James.  Clearly, he and James had all sorts of issues  ;).  And Wade, man he hated playing with James so much he decided to join him in Cleveland.

Oh and Chalmers, here is what he said last summer.

Quote
"It can be tough (playing with LeBron) sometimes just because he’s such a dominant player,” Chalmers said. “He’s the best player in the NBA, so it boils down to the coach. Is the coach going to get everybody else involved, or is he gonna let Bron’ decide when he wants to get everybody else involved? That’s one of the things we were going back-and-forth with (in) Miami. But as a teammate — he’s a great teammate. I’ve never had any problems (with him), even when we had that one argument on the court. At the end of the day, we’re still brothers. We were over that after it already happened, and the media made it more than what it was.

“I can’t say (LeBron) is a bad teammate. He’s a great teammate, a great dude. And when you’re a guy like Kyrie, and you’re young and you’re ‘the man,’ I can see him wanting to be traded to be on his own team, but I don’t think it’s as personal as what everybody is trying to make it seem.”

That sure does sound like a guy that hated playing with Lebron. 

Re: Trade idea: Irving for Wall
« Reply #85 on: September 13, 2018, 01:32:35 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Which Deng thread? I didn't see anything in the buyout thread but I'd be interested to read that.
it was in that one I think but a simple internet search of Deng in Cleveland and they come up. It was about the locker room in general and not specifically Irving, but Irving was the best player on that team and obviously contributed to that situation.

I didn't see anything in that thread about it and googling what you're talking about yielded a bunch of results of Luol Deng saying the article about him allegedly complaining about the Cavs locker room was bunk

Quote
“It’s a distraction,” he said. “I mean all this stuff that I hear, but when we’re in the locker room with these guys every day, they love each other. I can’t say one word or one incident, and when we get on the court, we never think twice about it.”
http://www.morningjournal.com/sports/20140419/cleveland-cavaliers-luol-deng-says-kyrie-irving-and-dion-waiters-love-each-other

Quote
"I’m disappointed that there’s an article like that. It doesn’t make sense to me saying, ‘close friends.’ Just name whoever told you that if you do have somebody, but I feel like people are always looking for something to write about. I’m new here, so obviously writing an article like that fits right in saying that’s how I feel. I’ve said it many times. I’m excited for the opportunity. I’m happy to be here."
https://www.fearthesword.com/2014/2/2/5370192/nba-rumors-luol-deng-and-others-express-frustration-with-cleveland

Quote
"I don't say anything outside of this locker room to my friends, and second of all, none of my friends would ever talk to reporters,"
https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/02/luol_deng_says_he_didnt_say_an.html

In terms of the question of whether Kyrie had issues in the locker room pre-Lebron, here are quotes from your links:

Quote
Most problems center around Kyrie and Dion Waiters, and both have attitudes that rub the team the wrong way.

- One teammate said that Irving "acts like he doesn't care"

Quote
The Cleveland Cavaliers locker room appears to be kind of a mess. Shortly after trying to figure out if Kyrie does or does not want out of Cleveland, and how he could go about do it...

Quote
Kyrie Irving allegedly wants to fire his agent, because his agent wants him to stay in Cleveland and Kyrie wants to go to New York.

Ther were A LOT of chemistry issues in Cleveland, many circling around Kyrie. It was a terrible locker room — Waiters, Bynum and Kyrie all had issues, independently and with each other.  Again, outside of last year, contributing positively to the lock room hasn’t been a strength of Kyrie’s. Nothing really separates him from Wall in that specific regard.

Yeah, I obviously don't have a great memory of Cleveland's locker room situation in between Lebron stints. There probably were a lot of chemistry issues but look at the names you're pulling up. Dion Waiters and Andrew Bynum were never exactly finalists for sportsman of the year. And we're still talking about the Cavaliers, a dysfunctional organization.

On top of that, we're talking about Kyrie Irving when he was 21 years old.

Like I said before, I don't hold whatever locker room drama there was in Cleveland against Kyrie, given how the locker room in Cleveland stayed after he left and the way the Celtics locker room was adding Kyrie.
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