Author Topic: Grande: Celtics Sacrificing Minutes, Shots a Legitimate Issue  (Read 4665 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Grande: Celtics Sacrificing Minutes, Shots a Legitimate Issue
« on: August 21, 2018, 07:33:55 PM »

Offline mgent

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7567
  • Tommy Points: 1962
I don't really think so.  Anyone agree with him?

Gotta say after really looking closer at how many shots everybody needs, it's tighter than I thought.  Minutes I'm not concerned about at all (unless Theis, Morris, and Baynes all play 1000x better than last year).



https://www.celticsblog.com/2018/8/21/17765978/grande-celtics-sacrificing-minutes-shots-a-legitimate-issue-nba-boston
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Grande: Celtics Sacrificing Minutes, Shots a Legitimate Issue
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2018, 07:37:38 PM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8497
  • Tommy Points: 975
It's definitely an issue. Each of the starters playing 30 minutes per game would leave 90 TOTAL minutes for bench guys, which include Smart, Rozier, Baynes, Morris, Theis, etc.

This is going to be Stevens' best team yet, but probably the most difficult in terms of managing minutes dealing with egos.

Re: Grande: Celtics Sacrificing Minutes, Shots a Legitimate Issue
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2018, 07:45:24 PM »

Offline timpiker

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1696
  • Tommy Points: 112
I refuse to believe that too many good players is a bad thing

Re: Grande: Celtics Sacrificing Minutes, Shots a Legitimate Issue
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2018, 07:46:59 PM »

Online hpantazo

  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24882
  • Tommy Points: 2700
If it was from most other reporters/analysts I'd say they are just speculating based on how deep and talented our roster is. Grande however I'm sure already has a sense of how willing most of our guys are to sacrifice shots and playing time for the good of the team this season, so its a bit of a concern.

Re: Grande: Celtics Sacrificing Minutes, Shots a Legitimate Issue
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2018, 07:51:05 PM »

Offline jambr380

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13002
  • Tommy Points: 1756
  • Everybody knows what's best for you
Injuries occur (as we all know from last year) so I am not too worried. Even if all players stayed healthy and played all 82 games this year, then you could still work it out so that the 5 players Eddie laid out above would have okay minutes.

Smart - 24
Rozier - 24
Baynes - 16
Morris - 16
Theis - 10

I realize this isn't perfect and it doesn't leave any minutes for the deep bench, but a solid 32MPG last year needed to be distributed because of the loss of Hayward. That doesn't even take into account the late season losses of Kyrie or Theis (or the 28 games each missed by Smart and Morris).

But, like I said, there will be injuries (or at least days off) and players will more than make up their minutes that way. And if they don't, they are likely not players we are planning to keep long-term anyway.

Re: Grande: Celtics Sacrificing Minutes, Shots a Legitimate Issue
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2018, 07:54:06 PM »

Offline jambr380

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13002
  • Tommy Points: 1756
  • Everybody knows what's best for you
I refuse to believe that too many good players is a bad thing

I played like 25 seasons of MyGM on NBA 2K18 last year and I can say with certainty that having too many good players was a problem in that game. I constantly had 5+ players wanting to improve their role or get an increase in minutes. Super-annoying!  :P
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 08:03:23 PM by jambr380 »

Re: Grande: Celtics Sacrificing Minutes, Shots a Legitimate Issue
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2018, 08:08:29 PM »

Offline SCeltic34

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16005
  • Tommy Points: 1956
Good problem to have.  If anyone is going to be willing to sacrifice shots it's going to be Horford.  I wouldn't be surprised if he averages only 10 PPG or even less this season, and with our depth I think Brad is going to play him around 28 MPG to preserve him for the playoffs.

Last season FG attempts per game:
Kyrie - 18.1 attempts in 32.2 MPG
Brown - 11.5 attempts in 30.7 MPG
Morris - 11.3 attempts in 26.7 MPG
Horford - 10.5 attempts in 31.6 MPG
Tatum - 10.4 attempts in 30.5 MPG
Rozier - 10 attempts in 25.9 MPG
Smart - 9.5 attempts in 29.9 MPG
Baynes - 5.5 attempts in 18.3 MPG

In his final 2 seasons with Utah, Hayward's FG attempts per game have been 15 and 15.8.  At least one of Hayward, Tatum, or Kyrie will be on the floor at all times I'm guessing to help anchor the 2nd unit.  If it's Hayward, this would be a good way to get him his shots.

Morris ideally would shoot less, as would Rozier.  Smart needs to shoot way less than he does and I hope Brad restricts him a bit this year.  If they are willing to accept a smaller role in addition to Kyrie hopefully sacrificing a bit of his iso-ball for the good of the team, I think we can have great scoring balance without our vets getting too disgruntled.  I think if anyone is going to have a problem it's going to be Morris.

Re: Grande: Celtics Sacrificing Minutes, Shots a Legitimate Issue
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2018, 08:17:41 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48120
  • Tommy Points: 8794
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
I refuse to believe that too many good players is a bad thing

I played like 25 seasons of MyGM on NBA 2K18 last year and I can say with certainty that having too many good players was a problem in that game. I constantly had 5+ players wanting to improve their role or get an increase in minutes. Super-annoying!  :P
Well there you have it. If NBA2K says it's a problem, it must be. 😉😄

Re: Grande: Celtics Sacrificing Minutes, Shots a Legitimate Issue
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2018, 08:20:35 PM »

Offline Beat LA

  • NCE
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8338
  • Tommy Points: 896
  • Mr. Emoji
I refuse to believe that too many good players is a bad thing

I played like 25 seasons of MyGM on NBA 2K18 last year and I can say with certainty that having too many good players was a problem in that game. I constantly had 5+ players wanting to improve their role or get an increase in minutes. Super-annoying!  :P

Lol, TP. ;D

As for the thread, shots shouldn't be as to, well, too much of an issue if the teams opts to pick up the tempo. I think.

Re: Grande: Celtics Sacrificing Minutes, Shots a Legitimate Issue
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2018, 08:48:57 PM »

Offline moiso

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7640
  • Tommy Points: 441
Yes, this is a good problem to have but it does concern me.  We have an awful lot of players who would be getting a lot more shots on other teams.  Of the vets I’m concerned with Irving and Morris taking too many shots, and Horford (he won’t care) and Hayward not getting enough.  And the young guys are talented and will be looking to establish themselves.  Tatum deserves a lot of shots and Brown  and Rozier will need their share.  I’d like to see Smart really cut down on his shot attempts but I don’t see that happening.

Re: Grande: Celtics Sacrificing Minutes, Shots a Legitimate Issue
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2018, 09:09:54 PM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8497
  • Tommy Points: 975
I refuse to believe that too many good players is a bad thing

I played like 25 seasons of MyGM on NBA 2K18 last year and I can say with certainty that having too many good players was a problem in that game. I constantly had 5+ players wanting to improve their role or get an increase in minutes. Super-annoying!  :P

Lol, TP. ;D

As for the thread, shots shouldn't be as to, well, too much of an issue if the teams opts to pick up the tempo. I think.

It doesn't matter how fast we play since it's hard to put up too many shots when you're playing 20 minutes per game. Rozier and Morris, with their impending free agency, seem like potential sulking  candidates, since they seem most likely to be impacted by a minutes squeeze. Plus, those 2 players, unlike Smart or Baynes, don't offer much contribution if it's not scoring.

Re: Grande: Celtics Sacrificing Minutes, Shots a Legitimate Issue
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2018, 09:27:01 PM »

Offline 18isGREATERthan72

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 469
  • Tommy Points: 34
For most of the regular season, this won't be an issue.

Realistically, the starters should be blowing out at least half the league, which means the bench gets a lot more run and the chance to get their shots up.

Come playoff time and the roster starts to tighten up though, some guys might not feel as great about it especially with how they performed in place of injured players (Morris and Rozier are the two that come to mind)

Re: Grande: Celtics Sacrificing Minutes, Shots a Legitimate Issue
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2018, 09:33:45 PM »

Online BitterJim

  • NGT
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8912
  • Tommy Points: 1212
Injuries occur (as we all know from last year) so I am not too worried. Even if all players stayed healthy and played all 82 games this year, then you could still work it out so that the 5 players Eddie laid out above would have okay minutes.

Smart - 24
Rozier - 24
Baynes - 16
Morris - 16
Theis - 10

I realize this isn't perfect and it doesn't leave any minutes for the deep bench, but a solid 32MPG last year needed to be distributed because of the loss of Hayward. That doesn't even take into account the late season losses of Kyrie or Theis (or the 28 games each missed by Smart and Morris).

But, like I said, there will be injuries (or at least days off) and players will more than make up their minutes that way. And if they don't, they are likely not players we are planning to keep long-term anyway.

Those minutes would mean Horford was stuck playing at least 22 of his 30 mpg at center (and that assumes Theis can play as the sole big on the floor, which I doubt).  We could get around it by playing some zero-big lineups, but that would be a disaster.

I think you need to give Baynes 20 mpg, and give Williams a few minutes. I think Morris is the guy who loses minutes in that situation
I'm bitter.

Re: Grande: Celtics Sacrificing Minutes, Shots a Legitimate Issue
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2018, 09:36:23 PM »

Online BitterJim

  • NGT
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8912
  • Tommy Points: 1212
Good problem to have.  If anyone is going to be willing to sacrifice shots it's going to be Horford.  I wouldn't be surprised if he averages only 10 PPG or even less this season, and with our depth I think Brad is going to play him around 28 MPG to preserve him for the playoffs.

Last season FG attempts per game:
Kyrie - 18.1 attempts in 32.2 MPG
Brown - 11.5 attempts in 30.7 MPG
Morris - 11.3 attempts in 26.7 MPG
Horford - 10.5 attempts in 31.6 MPG
Tatum - 10.4 attempts in 30.5 MPG
Rozier - 10 attempts in 25.9 MPG
Smart - 9.5 attempts in 29.9 MPG
Baynes - 5.5 attempts in 18.3 MPG

In his final 2 seasons with Utah, Hayward's FG attempts per game have been 15 and 15.8.  At least one of Hayward, Tatum, or Kyrie will be on the floor at all times I'm guessing to help anchor the 2nd unit.  If it's Hayward, this would be a good way to get him his shots.

Morris ideally would shoot less, as would Rozier.  Smart needs to shoot way less than he does and I hope Brad restricts him a bit this year.  If they are willing to accept a smaller role in addition to Kyrie hopefully sacrificing a bit of his iso-ball for the good of the team, I think we can have great scoring balance without our vets getting too disgruntled.  I think if anyone is going to have a problem it's going to be Morris.

And wasn't that playing in an extremely slow paced offense? I would treat that more like 16-18 shots per game, which makes the problem even harder
I'm bitter.

Re: Grande: Celtics Sacrificing Minutes, Shots a Legitimate Issue
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2018, 09:36:58 PM »

Offline Beat LA

  • NCE
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8338
  • Tommy Points: 896
  • Mr. Emoji
I refuse to believe that too many good players is a bad thing

I played like 25 seasons of MyGM on NBA 2K18 last year and I can say with certainty that having too many good players was a problem in that game. I constantly had 5+ players wanting to improve their role or get an increase in minutes. Super-annoying!  :P

Lol, TP. ;D

As for the thread, shots shouldn't be as to, well, too much of an issue if the teams opts to pick up the tempo. I think.

It doesn't matter how fast we play since it's hard to put up too many shots when you're playing 20 minutes per game. Rozier and Morris, with their impending free agency, seem like potential sulking  candidates, since they seem most likely to be impacted by a minutes squeeze. Plus, those 2 players, unlike Smart or Baynes, don't offer much contribution if it's not scoring.

The faster you play the more possessions are available, quite obviously, ergo more shot opportunities. How many times have we seen Boston routinely stop the opponent and then elect to have Horford bring it up the floor. ::) Like, I understand as to why they elect to go that route, so to speak, but why not just get the ball to Kyrie, Rozier, Brown, and Tatum and watch them go, and if, as I unfortunately suspect, none of those guys are capable of running a 2-on-1/3-on-2 fast break that produces a dunk/layup and/or a foul, well, an emphasis should be put on those skills in practice, at the absolute minimum, imo. Stop running to shoot threes and get some easy baskets. Sad! ::) ;D