Author Topic: We are going to watch some beautiful basketball  (Read 706 times)

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We are going to watch some beautiful basketball
« on: August 17, 2018, 07:54:30 AM »

Online rollie mass

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Kyrie how can you ask for more than Al Horford as a center the guy is a joy to play basketball with.
Kyrie you have Hayward back ,also another fine basketball player you tried to recruit.
Kyrie there are two young players that pushed the boundaries last season.
Kyrie you have Baynes and Mook for some tough guy stuff and Mook can score
Kyrie can anybody not want Marcus on their team for his defensive mayhem and Rozier as your backup.
Kyrie you have Theis in his 2nd season and Semi to stop the opponents bullies.
Kyrie you got draft choices coming and a big being groomed.
Kyrie you got Brad, Ainge and Wyk.
Kyrie  look at the rafters
Kyrie look at the legends and Hall of Famers
Kyrie what more can you want than to play beautiful basketball.

Re: We are going to watch some beautiful basketball
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2018, 08:37:08 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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I agree. Itís an ideal situation.

Itís odd. Kyrie is our most talented player, but his fit is among the worst. Heís not a good passer, heís a bad defender, and his best offense comes from iso play.  Iím hopeful that Kyrieís focus is on fitting in here, rather than on his next step.


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Re: We are going to watch some beautiful basketball
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2018, 08:40:56 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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I agree. Itís an ideal situation.

Itís odd. Kyrie is our most talented player, but his fit is among the worst. Heís not a good passer, heís a bad defender, and his best offense comes from iso play.  Iím hopeful that Kyrieís focus is on fitting in here, rather than on his next step.
Good points, but I expect with CBS that Kyrie will fit in many offensive sets. Also, I think CBS will use Kyrie ability to help others get free on offense.

Gee, I guess my basic point is that in CBS I trust.  ;D
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Re: We are going to watch some beautiful basketball
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2018, 08:51:23 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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I agree. Itís an ideal situation.

Itís odd. Kyrie is our most talented player, but his fit is among the worst. Heís not a good passer, heís a bad defender, and his best offense comes from iso play.  Iím hopeful that Kyrieís focus is on fitting in here, rather than on his next step.
His best offense comes in iso? Do the numbers back that up? That would surprise me.

I was really impressed by Kyrie's ability to play within the offense last year. Coming into the year my fear was that he would revert to isoball too much but after watching him play I didn't think that happened.

This is a great thread topic because the offense is going to be a sight to behold and it reminded me of that.

 The ball movement on this team is going to be amazing, they are going to get so many open shots because almost everyone is a threat to score. I expect them to play at an increased pace to further utilize their depth. Combining the two will lead to the quality of looks sky rocketing compared to last year.
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Re: We are going to watch some beautiful basketball
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2018, 11:10:52 AM »

Offline Erik

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I agree. Itís an ideal situation.

Itís odd. Kyrie is our most talented player, but his fit is among the worst. Heís not a good passer, heís a bad defender, and his best offense comes from iso play.  Iím hopeful that Kyrieís focus is on fitting in here, rather than on his next step.
His best offense comes in iso? Do the numbers back that up? That would surprise me.

I was really impressed by Kyrie's ability to play within the offense last year. Coming into the year my fear was that he would revert to isoball too much but after watching him play I didn't think that happened.

This is a great thread topic because the offense is going to be a sight to behold and it reminded me of that.

 The ball movement on this team is going to be amazing, they are going to get so many open shots because almost everyone is a threat to score. I expect them to play at an increased pace to further utilize their depth. Combining the two will lead to the quality of looks sky rocketing compared to last year.

No, it doesn't. ISO is generally the least efficient form of offense, statistically. I've read a stat that ISO plays result in roughly .78 PPP (points per possession), which is the least. Kyrie's Iso is 1.04 PPP which ranks him 8th after Harden, Paul, Schroder, Lillard, Rivers, Durant, and Oladipo). His best offense is in the pick and roll at 1.1 and handoff at 1.16. We'll need ISO Kyrie for the 4th quarter when defense tightens up and you need clock management.

Other than that, I expect more of the same offense where everyone touches the ball until there's a wide open shot. This is how:
When Kyrie was the ball handler in the pick and roll in 17-18, our points per possession is 1.1 (48.6% score frequency). That's either #1 or #2 in ball handlers with more than 20 games played & 2 PnR possessions per game (Kyrie #1 in score freq (Curry 47.1%), Curry in PPP at 1.13 (they get more 3s)).

Brad knows this. One of the go-to moves is a Kyrie/Horford PnR, which gets overplayed by the defense because you have to respect Kyrie's drive, allowing either Horford an easy roll to the hoop or a wide open 3 by one of the other 3 players.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xB8INkZ7BA

Another play that they score well in is dribble handoff where Kyrie is also ranked #1 in PPP at 1.16:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3hxOpn7LZI

I can't find a clip of the more common one where Horford has the ball at the top of the key and hands it off to Kyrie coming around.

I'd argue that Horford is the most irreplaceable person on the team. But to say that Kyrie has the least fit in the team is nuts. Sure we can play without him, but you're taking away the best ball handler in the best offensive set in basketball. That's not easily replaceable considering the next best on the Celtics in that situation is Marcus Smart with a PPP of .77 and score Freq of 35.5%...
« Last Edit: August 17, 2018, 11:31:10 AM by Erik »

Re: We are going to watch some beautiful basketball
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2018, 12:04:31 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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If he can also step up on defense, he'll be phenomenally dangerous- especially against the likes of Stephen Curry.

Re: We are going to watch some beautiful basketball
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2018, 12:17:25 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Excellent post, rollie. One of your best. TP.

Re: We are going to watch some beautiful basketball
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2018, 01:07:09 PM »

Online rollie mass

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 Another benefit with the Celtics is Kyries defense can be covered up allowing him to play for the long haul. We are so deep with defenders.The 2nd unit will more than likely blow out the opponents benches.Marcus and Rozier will hound 2nd string guards off there spots eating the clock  while forcing turnovers and bad shots,

Boston fans also love the theatrics of great passes but even more important is they appreciate a well timed simple pass in the flow.,A good solid screen and a timed hand off .Or Baynes and his wall offs opening the lane like an autobahn for Jaylen..The backdoor cuts of Jaylen or his quick slant cuts to the rim.
Horford spreads the floor with his 3 point shooting and pick and rolls making Kyrie impossible to guard
This all comes down from Ainge and Brad and the love of this game and our Celtics history.
Team basketball,team defense ,rebound and fast break.
The Celtics were into small ball with Cowens, Havilcek ran people to death,
Bird, McHale and Parish what an odd assortment with DJ and Ainge but that ball sometimes.
 didn't touch the floor.
The there is Marcus coming back from wrist surgery and going flat out dive a la Cowens.
That is freeze framed forever in my mind.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2018, 01:15:48 PM by rollie mass »

Re: We are going to watch some beautiful basketball
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2018, 01:31:03 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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I agree. It’s an ideal situation.

It’s odd. Kyrie is our most talented player, but his fit is among the worst. He’s not a good passer, he’s a bad defender, and his best offense comes from iso play.  I’m hopeful that Kyrie’s focus is on fitting in here, rather than on his next step.
His best offense comes in iso? Do the numbers back that up? That would surprise me.

I was really impressed by Kyrie's ability to play within the offense last year. Coming into the year my fear was that he would revert to isoball too much but after watching him play I didn't think that happened.

This is a great thread topic because the offense is going to be a sight to behold and it reminded me of that.

 The ball movement on this team is going to be amazing, they are going to get so many open shots because almost everyone is a threat to score. I expect them to play at an increased pace to further utilize their depth. Combining the two will lead to the quality of looks sky rocketing compared to last year.

Kyrie is an interesting player. I agree with what Erik said, which is that Kyrie can score well on flow and motion plays - and the stats seem to bear it out.

At the same time, I have a hard time shaking the eye-test feeling that when he was in the game, often the ball didn't move as well as it could. He held it too long sometimes, and especially at the end of games (when his legs were tired??) he sometimes launched long threes at the end of the clock. He's such a great shooter that sometimes it works out OK, but I had the thought we could do better. Maybe that's part of what Roy's getting at, when he calls out KI's passing.

I am hoping, with rollie, that having the full set of weapons - especially Gordon, but also another year of development from the young guys - is really going to unlock a devastating offense with plenty of motion *and* guys who can finish.

Re: We are going to watch some beautiful basketball
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2018, 01:39:10 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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I agree. Itís an ideal situation.

Itís odd. Kyrie is our most talented player, but his fit is among the worst. Heís not a good passer, heís a bad defender, and his best offense comes from iso play.  Iím hopeful that Kyrieís focus is on fitting in here, rather than on his next step.
His best offense comes in iso? Do the numbers back that up? That would surprise me.

I was really impressed by Kyrie's ability to play within the offense last year. Coming into the year my fear was that he would revert to isoball too much but after watching him play I didn't think that happened.

This is a great thread topic because the offense is going to be a sight to behold and it reminded me of that.

 The ball movement on this team is going to be amazing, they are going to get so many open shots because almost everyone is a threat to score. I expect them to play at an increased pace to further utilize their depth. Combining the two will lead to the quality of looks sky rocketing compared to last year.

Kyrie is an interesting player. I agree with what Erik said, which is that Kyrie can score well on flow and motion plays - and the stats seem to bear it out.

At the same time, I have a hard time shaking the eye-test feeling that when he was in the game, often the ball didn't move as well as it could. He held it too long sometimes, and especially at the end of games (when his legs were tired??) he sometimes launched long threes at the end of the clock. He's such a great shooter that sometimes it works out OK, but I had the thought we could do better. Maybe that's part of what Roy's getting at, when he calls out KI's passing.

I am hoping, with rollie, that having the full set of weapons - especially Gordon, but also another year of development from the young guys - is really going to unlock a devastating offense with plenty of motion *and* guys who can finish.
I thought Kyrie did a great job of moving the ball to start the season. He really made an effort to get Tatum and Brown quality looks to start the game then he would take over down the stretch. I thought this was especially evident during the early season winning streak.

Later in the season when the C's were really beat down by injuries I thought Kyrie relied on the ISO more but I think that was out of necessity rather than his personal preference.
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Re: We are going to watch some beautiful basketball
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2018, 01:43:14 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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I agree. It’s an ideal situation.

It’s odd. Kyrie is our most talented player, but his fit is among the worst. He’s not a good passer, he’s a bad defender, and his best offense comes from iso play.  I’m hopeful that Kyrie’s focus is on fitting in here, rather than on his next step.
His best offense comes in iso? Do the numbers back that up? That would surprise me.

I was really impressed by Kyrie's ability to play within the offense last year. Coming into the year my fear was that he would revert to isoball too much but after watching him play I didn't think that happened.

This is a great thread topic because the offense is going to be a sight to behold and it reminded me of that.

 The ball movement on this team is going to be amazing, they are going to get so many open shots because almost everyone is a threat to score. I expect them to play at an increased pace to further utilize their depth. Combining the two will lead to the quality of looks sky rocketing compared to last year.

Kyrie is an interesting player. I agree with what Erik said, which is that Kyrie can score well on flow and motion plays - and the stats seem to bear it out.

At the same time, I have a hard time shaking the eye-test feeling that when he was in the game, often the ball didn't move as well as it could. He held it too long sometimes, and especially at the end of games (when his legs were tired??) he sometimes launched long threes at the end of the clock. He's such a great shooter that sometimes it works out OK, but I had the thought we could do better. Maybe that's part of what Roy's getting at, when he calls out KI's passing.

I am hoping, with rollie, that having the full set of weapons - especially Gordon, but also another year of development from the young guys - is really going to unlock a devastating offense with plenty of motion *and* guys who can finish.
I thought Kyrie did a great job of moving the ball to start the season. He really made an effort to get Tatum and Brown quality looks to start the game then he would take over down the stretch. I thought this was especially evident during the early season winning streak.

Later in the season when the C's were really beat down by injuries I thought Kyrie relied on the ISO more but I think that was out of necessity rather than his personal preference.

Yeah, I would second that early-game vs late-game Kyrie, especially in the first part of the season. The hard thing for me to figure is that I thought the ball moved more at the end of the season after TR took over from Kyrie - which seemed good - but the team's scoring plummeted - which is very not-good and of course the point.  Then the offense did recover some in the playoffs.

It would be interesting to compare parts of the season: dribbles, time spent holding the ball, and the number of passes ... but lunch is about over. I may look later.

Re: We are going to watch some beautiful basketball
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2018, 03:16:23 PM »

Offline billysan

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I'm  sure everyone has a theory as do I.  I believe there will be a lot of experimentation  with line ups and sets this year especially  in the early part of the season. Brad has so many toys to playo with and I  believe  that is a good thing. I think we will see the offense running through several different players as facilitators so Kyrie  can play off the ball more. This can only increase  his efficiency. 

Kyrie should be ecstatic.
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Re: We are going to watch some beautiful basketball
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2018, 04:39:27 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Yes, lots of beautiful basketball, unless the "major injury" bug strikes for the 11th season in a row.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

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Re: We are going to watch some beautiful basketball
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2018, 05:06:49 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Yes, lots of beautiful basketball, unless the "major injury" bug strikes for the 11th season in a row.
Boooooooooo

😁😁😁😎😎😎

Re: We are going to watch some beautiful basketball
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2018, 05:16:18 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Yes, lots of beautiful basketball, unless the "major injury" bug strikes for the 11th season in a row.
Boooooooooo

😁😁😁😎😎😎

If this happens I will be devastated. I am looking forward to this seasons so much.