Author Topic: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance  (Read 3557 times)

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Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #75 on: August 18, 2018, 02:01:28 PM »

Offline eja117

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Maybe what the intelligence community could do is give Trump's entire staff immunity and then conclude that yes he did do some illegal things and lied about it, but there was no intent so we shouldn't prosecute which is not to say that someone else doing something similar wouldn't be prosecuted, but in this case it wouldn't be proper. Then we can all have a good laugh and call it even, and Donna Brazille can host a toast with Bernie saying "God Bless us Everyone."   Case closed. Roll credits.

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #76 on: August 18, 2018, 02:04:35 PM »

Offline eja117

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Well if people in his staff made the hires instead of the intelligence community spying on him and us the intelligence community could start spying on his enemies. I'm fine with that. I also wasn't a big fan of when the IRS was weaponized against conservatives. A little turning of the tables wouldn't bother me at all. Quite honestly maybe the left should have thought of this before they did all this stuff.

And I am just guessing.....we'll know in the next 3 weeks if Mueller has anything substantial on Trump because now that Trump has done this if there's anything out there it will be leaked. I think if he gets through the next 3 weeks he gets through the next 3 years

This didn’t happen, quite frankly.  I’ll never convince you otherwise, because you’ll believe what people who have benefited from this lie want you to believe, but that flat out isn’t close to what happened.
Maybe the IRS was just incompetent like Comey's FBI

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #77 on: August 18, 2018, 02:05:19 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Maybe what the intelligence community could do is give Trump's entire staff immunity and then conclude that yes he did do some illegal things and lied about it, but there was no intent so we shouldn't prosecute which is not to say that someone else doing something similar wouldn't be prosecuted, but in this case it wouldn't be proper. Then we can all have a good laugh and call it even, and Donna Brazille can host a toast with Bernie saying "God Bless us Everyone."   Case closed. Roll credits.

I see what you did there.


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Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #78 on: August 18, 2018, 02:07:24 PM »

Offline eja117

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Remember the time Comey's FBI was leaking everything possible negative about Trump but managed not to leak the part where he wasn't the subject of investigation? Why would any of those people have security clearances revoked?

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #79 on: August 18, 2018, 02:23:41 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Well if people in his staff made the hires instead of the intelligence community spying on him and us the intelligence community could start spying on his enemies. I'm fine with that. I also wasn't a big fan of when the IRS was weaponized against conservatives. A little turning of the tables wouldn't bother me at all. Quite honestly maybe the left should have thought of this before they did all this stuff.

And I am just guessing.....we'll know in the next 3 weeks if Mueller has anything substantial on Trump because now that Trump has done this if there's anything out there it will be leaked. I think if he gets through the next 3 weeks he gets through the next 3 years

This didn’t happen, quite frankly.  I’ll never convince you otherwise, because you’ll believe what people who have benefited from this lie want you to believe, but that flat out isn’t close to what happened.
Maybe the IRS was just incompetent like Comey's FBI

Incompetence was definitely part of the problem.  Being completely understaffed was also part of the problem.  But there was absolutely zero intent.

Short story:  I know someone who started at that division of the IRS in late 2012.  He started with about 12 other new hires — they were the first new employees that division had been given since 2008.  Second week there, he said “It’s crazy.  There’s this guy Bob (I changed his name.) They just gave me a lot of his work.  There are cases dating back to 2005 that he hasn’t touched in years.  And our manager is just counting the days to his retirement.”

Fast forward about 9 months, after the scandal broke.  I mention to my friend that his work is in the news.  He said “Remember Bob?  All of those cases were assigned to him.”
“When an alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.”

Leviticus 19:33-34

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #80 on: August 18, 2018, 02:48:50 PM »

Offline eja117

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Well if people in his staff made the hires instead of the intelligence community spying on him and us the intelligence community could start spying on his enemies. I'm fine with that. I also wasn't a big fan of when the IRS was weaponized against conservatives. A little turning of the tables wouldn't bother me at all. Quite honestly maybe the left should have thought of this before they did all this stuff.

And I am just guessing.....we'll know in the next 3 weeks if Mueller has anything substantial on Trump because now that Trump has done this if there's anything out there it will be leaked. I think if he gets through the next 3 weeks he gets through the next 3 years

This didn’t happen, quite frankly.  I’ll never convince you otherwise, because you’ll believe what people who have benefited from this lie want you to believe, but that flat out isn’t close to what happened.
Maybe the IRS was just incompetent like Comey's FBI

Incompetence was definitely part of the problem.  Being completely understaffed was also part of the problem.  But there was absolutely zero intent.

Short story:  I know someone who started at that division of the IRS in late 2012.  He started with about 12 other new hires — they were the first new employees that division had been given since 2008.  Second week there, he said “It’s crazy.  There’s this guy Bob (I changed his name.) They just gave me a lot of his work.  There are cases dating back to 2005 that he hasn’t touched in years.  And our manager is just counting the days to his retirement.”

Fast forward about 9 months, after the scandal broke.  I mention to my friend that his work is in the news.  He said “Remember Bob?  All of those cases were assigned to him.”
Oh so that's why conservatives groups were targeted 3 times as often. Social media firms should go with that as to why they have a double standard towards conservatives as well. It's not what it looks like guys! We're just swamped with work!

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #81 on: August 18, 2018, 03:29:38 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Well if people in his staff made the hires instead of the intelligence community spying on him and us the intelligence community could start spying on his enemies. I'm fine with that. I also wasn't a big fan of when the IRS was weaponized against conservatives. A little turning of the tables wouldn't bother me at all. Quite honestly maybe the left should have thought of this before they did all this stuff.

And I am just guessing.....we'll know in the next 3 weeks if Mueller has anything substantial on Trump because now that Trump has done this if there's anything out there it will be leaked. I think if he gets through the next 3 weeks he gets through the next 3 years

This didn’t happen, quite frankly.  I’ll never convince you otherwise, because you’ll believe what people who have benefited from this lie want you to believe, but that flat out isn’t close to what happened.
Maybe the IRS was just incompetent like Comey's FBI

Incompetence was definitely part of the problem.  Being completely understaffed was also part of the problem.  But there was absolutely zero intent.

Short story:  I know someone who started at that division of the IRS in late 2012.  He started with about 12 other new hires — they were the first new employees that division had been given since 2008.  Second week there, he said “It’s crazy.  There’s this guy Bob (I changed his name.) They just gave me a lot of his work.  There are cases dating back to 2005 that he hasn’t touched in years.  And our manager is just counting the days to his retirement.”

Fast forward about 9 months, after the scandal broke.  I mention to my friend that his work is in the news.  He said “Remember Bob?  All of those cases were assigned to him.”
Oh so that's why conservatives groups were targeted 3 times as often. Social media firms should go with that as to why they have a double standard towards conservatives as well. It's not what it looks like guys! We're just swamped with work!

Do you remember the 2010 election?  Conservative groups were way more active.  You trounced the liberal groups.  And accordingly, yeah, you created way more groups, and so way more were caught up in this, because there were simply more being started up.

That’s the short story, of course.  The slightly longer story is that a lot of the Tea Party groups that were starting and found instructions online about how to start up a 501(c)(4) organization, and had shared those instructions with each other.  Unfortunately those instructions they found weren’t correct, and so many (but not all) of the applications had the same error.  So what happened is a couple of employees in Cincinnati, who would normally see about 10 applications per month instead started seeing 100 applications per month, because you guys were so freaking motivated.  Many of them had errors, and they all seemed to be related to each other because they had similar names and the same errors.  So they called DC, and someone in DC gave Bob the assignment.  And Bob, who was clueless, and not a lawyer, said “send all the Patriot and Tea Party groups to me.”  So that’s what the Cincinnati people did (even tho they should have approved the ones that came in that were correct).  And then Bob sat on them, because that’s what Bob did to all of the work he got.

I mean this truly, if this didn’t blow up and cause a huge scandal, Bob would still be at the IRS.  And this time around the people in Cincinnati would have called Bob and said “Hey, there’s all these groups called Indivisible and they all look like they’re related, what should we do?” And Bob would have said “Send them to me” and would have just sat on them.

But there are some things that no one talks about, and I want to highlight them.

1) Most of the applications that were sent to DC instead of being instantly approved had substantial errors in them.
2) Yeah, workload really did mater.  TEGE (Tax-Exempt and Government Entities) has its workforce slashed over the course of the decade (by both Bush and Obama), and there was a huge influx of applications in 2009 and 2010 that they simply didn’t have the staff to deal with them, even if they had competent staff instead of Bob.
3) In 2009, the Tea Party groups all said they were separate from Republicans and non-partisan.  So even though they shouldn’t have been singled out in the manner that they were, all the applications indicated that they were non-partisan groups, and people legitimately didn’t realize they would be doing something that might seem partisan in hindsight.
4) The result of all this is that if you want to start up your own tax-exempt group, you can do so very easily and no one will stop you even if you break all the rules.  There is zero oversight now.  And this is a problem.  Are charities using their money how they say? Who knows.  Are (c)(4)s electioneering on behalf of (c)(3)s? Who cares (and most people don’t even know what that means).  Is your contribution to a terrorist organization tax-deductible now? Quite probably.  And are very rich people giving money to foundations they control, writing off the donations, and using the funds of said foundation to benefit themselves.  Absolutely.  But we’re okay with all of that because Republicans who trounced Democrats in the election get to feel persecuted at the same time they actually won.

Anyway, all this is extremely off-topic.
“When an alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.”

Leviticus 19:33-34

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #82 on: August 18, 2018, 04:10:21 PM »

Offline blink

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Now the total is over 60 former CIA officials that have rebuked Trump's removal of Brennan's security clearance.  Unfortunate that it is only former officials, but I guess the current ones would be too worried about losing their jobs.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-former-cia-officials-sign-letter-against-trumps-security-clearance-decision/
Are these basically the same intelligence officials that were illegally spying on us and lying about it and then chased Snowden to Russia, for telling us about it and refuse to try him under the whistle blower act, instead only offering to try him under the espionage act so that none of us will ever see any of the evidence?  Or are they the same ones that illegally leaked contents of a dossier compiled by a foreigner, which was paid for by a campaign, in a blatant attempt to change the election? Is it the same intelligence community that fed false information to Colin Powell so he'd lie to the UN Security Council about the need to invade Iraq? Is it the same intelligence community that couldn't catch a terrorist when his father called the FBI and told them "My son is a terrorist. He's going to do bad things." Is it the same intelligence community that blew off Russia when they tipped us off about the Tsarnaevs? Is this the same intelligence community that knew within hours that Bin Laden was behind 9/11 but was impotent to prevent it? Gee I can't imagine why people in that intelligence community could possibly be candidates for having their security clearances yanked. Does anyone else get tired of hearing how that community is a bunch of patriots and good Americans?

Did Trump use any of those 'issues' as a basis for removing Brennan's security clearance?  Not to my understanding of it.  The things listed by Sarah Sanders and Trump didn't have anything to do with that.  Sarah Sanders claimed that 'Mr. Brennan’s lying and recent conduct' and that 'erratic conduct and behavior' was the reason.  Trump claimed it was related to the Russia investigation. 

If you want to go off topic onto a complete indictment of the US national security apparatus, feel free, but maybe do it in your own thread.

« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 04:27:17 PM by blink »

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #83 on: August 18, 2018, 04:24:35 PM »

Offline eja117

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Well if people in his staff made the hires instead of the intelligence community spying on him and us the intelligence community could start spying on his enemies. I'm fine with that. I also wasn't a big fan of when the IRS was weaponized against conservatives. A little turning of the tables wouldn't bother me at all. Quite honestly maybe the left should have thought of this before they did all this stuff.

And I am just guessing.....we'll know in the next 3 weeks if Mueller has anything substantial on Trump because now that Trump has done this if there's anything out there it will be leaked. I think if he gets through the next 3 weeks he gets through the next 3 years

This didn’t happen, quite frankly.  I’ll never convince you otherwise, because you’ll believe what people who have benefited from this lie want you to believe, but that flat out isn’t close to what happened.
Maybe the IRS was just incompetent like Comey's FBI

Incompetence was definitely part of the problem.  Being completely understaffed was also part of the problem.  But there was absolutely zero intent.

Short story:  I know someone who started at that division of the IRS in late 2012.  He started with about 12 other new hires — they were the first new employees that division had been given since 2008.  Second week there, he said “It’s crazy.  There’s this guy Bob (I changed his name.) They just gave me a lot of his work.  There are cases dating back to 2005 that he hasn’t touched in years.  And our manager is just counting the days to his retirement.”

Fast forward about 9 months, after the scandal broke.  I mention to my friend that his work is in the news.  He said “Remember Bob?  All of those cases were assigned to him.”
Oh so that's why conservatives groups were targeted 3 times as often. Social media firms should go with that as to why they have a double standard towards conservatives as well. It's not what it looks like guys! We're just swamped with work!

Do you remember the 2010 election?  Conservative groups were way more active.  You trounced the liberal groups.  And accordingly, yeah, you created way more groups, and so way more were caught up in this, because there were simply more being started up.

That’s the short story, of course.  The slightly longer story is that a lot of the Tea Party groups that were starting and found instructions online about how to start up a 501(c)(4) organization, and had shared those instructions with each other.  Unfortunately those instructions they found weren’t correct, and so many (but not all) of the applications had the same error.  So what happened is a couple of employees in Cincinnati, who would normally see about 10 applications per month instead started seeing 100 applications per month, because you guys were so freaking motivated.  Many of them had errors, and they all seemed to be related to each other because they had similar names and the same errors.  So they called DC, and someone in DC gave Bob the assignment.  And Bob, who was clueless, and not a lawyer, said “send all the Patriot and Tea Party groups to me.”  So that’s what the Cincinnati people did (even tho they should have approved the ones that came in that were correct).  And then Bob sat on them, because that’s what Bob did to all of the work he got.

I mean this truly, if this didn’t blow up and cause a huge scandal, Bob would still be at the IRS.  And this time around the people in Cincinnati would have called Bob and said “Hey, there’s all these groups called Indivisible and they all look like they’re related, what should we do?” And Bob would have said “Send them to me” and would have just sat on them.

But there are some things that no one talks about, and I want to highlight them.

1) Most of the applications that were sent to DC instead of being instantly approved had substantial errors in them.
2) Yeah, workload really did mater.  TEGE (Tax-Exempt and Government Entities) has its workforce slashed over the course of the decade (by both Bush and Obama), and there was a huge influx of applications in 2009 and 2010 that they simply didn’t have the staff to deal with them, even if they had competent staff instead of Bob.
3) In 2009, the Tea Party groups all said they were separate from Republicans and non-partisan.  So even though they shouldn’t have been singled out in the manner that they were, all the applications indicated that they were non-partisan groups, and people legitimately didn’t realize they would be doing something that might seem partisan in hindsight.
4) The result of all this is that if you want to start up your own tax-exempt group, you can do so very easily and no one will stop you even if you break all the rules.  There is zero oversight now.  And this is a problem.  Are charities using their money how they say? Who knows.  Are (c)(4)s electioneering on behalf of (c)(3)s? Who cares (and most people don’t even know what that means).  Is your contribution to a terrorist organization tax-deductible now? Quite probably.  And are very rich people giving money to foundations they control, writing off the donations, and using the funds of said foundation to benefit themselves.  Absolutely.  But we’re okay with all of that because Republicans who trounced Democrats in the election get to feel persecuted at the same time they actually won.

Anyway, all this is extremely off-topic.
I'm pretty sure in a similar vein all the issues the Trump administration is having....it's all just a workload misunderstanding.

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #84 on: August 18, 2018, 04:27:08 PM »

Offline eja117

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Now the total is over 60 former CIA officials that have rebuked Trump's removal of Brennan's security clearance.  Unfortunate that it is only former officials, but I guess the current ones would be too worried about losing their jobs.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-former-cia-officials-sign-letter-against-trumps-security-clearance-decision/
Are these basically the same intelligence officials that were illegally spying on us and lying about it and then chased Snowden to Russia, for telling us about it and refuse to try him under the whistle blower act, instead only offering to try him under the espionage act so that none of us will ever see any of the evidence?  Or are they the same ones that illegally leaked contents of a dossier compiled by a foreigner, which was paid for by a campaign, in a blatant attempt to change the election? Is it the same intelligence community that fed false information to Colin Powell so he'd lie to the UN Security Council about the need to invade Iraq? Is it the same intelligence community that couldn't catch a terrorist when his father called the FBI and told them "My son is a terrorist. He's going to do bad things." Is it the same intelligence community that blew off Russia when they tipped us off about the Tsarnaevs? Is this the same intelligence community that knew within hours that Bin Laden was behind 9/11 but was impotent to prevent it? Gee I can't imagine why people in that intelligence community could possibly be candidates for having their security clearances yanked. Does anyone else get tired of hearing how that community is a bunch of patriots and good Americans?

Did Trump use any of those 'issues' as a basis for removing Brennan's security clearance?  Nope he didn't.

If you want to go into a complete off the rails indictment of the US national security apparatus, feel free, but maybe do it in your own thread.
Yeah, I'm sure none of this is related on any level.

It's a little interesting the left's answer to all this is "There's no deep state. The intelligence community isn't doing anything cruddy. They just have a big workload and keep stumbling into deep statey type stuff."

Has anyone gotten Snowden's quotes on all this?

Has wikileaks posted anything lately?

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #85 on: August 18, 2018, 04:38:45 PM »

Offline blink

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Now the total is over 60 former CIA officials that have rebuked Trump's removal of Brennan's security clearance.  Unfortunate that it is only former officials, but I guess the current ones would be too worried about losing their jobs.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-former-cia-officials-sign-letter-against-trumps-security-clearance-decision/
Are these basically the same intelligence officials that were illegally spying on us and lying about it and then chased Snowden to Russia, for telling us about it and refuse to try him under the whistle blower act, instead only offering to try him under the espionage act so that none of us will ever see any of the evidence?  Or are they the same ones that illegally leaked contents of a dossier compiled by a foreigner, which was paid for by a campaign, in a blatant attempt to change the election? Is it the same intelligence community that fed false information to Colin Powell so he'd lie to the UN Security Council about the need to invade Iraq? Is it the same intelligence community that couldn't catch a terrorist when his father called the FBI and told them "My son is a terrorist. He's going to do bad things." Is it the same intelligence community that blew off Russia when they tipped us off about the Tsarnaevs? Is this the same intelligence community that knew within hours that Bin Laden was behind 9/11 but was impotent to prevent it? Gee I can't imagine why people in that intelligence community could possibly be candidates for having their security clearances yanked. Does anyone else get tired of hearing how that community is a bunch of patriots and good Americans?

Did Trump use any of those 'issues' as a basis for removing Brennan's security clearance?  Nope he didn't.

If you want to go into a complete off the rails indictment of the US national security apparatus, feel free, but maybe do it in your own thread.
Yeah, I'm sure none of this is related on any level.

It's a little interesting the left's answer to all this is "There's no deep state. The intelligence community isn't doing anything cruddy. They just have a big workload and keep stumbling into deep statey type stuff."

Has anyone gotten Snowden's quotes on all this?

Has wikileaks posted anything lately?

Snowden, Wikileaks, deep state have nothing do do with the removal of the security clearance.  This was about Trump finding a way to be vindictive to a former intelligence officer because he didn't like being criticized. 

The real problem though is that even when every intelligence agency tells Trump 'Russia is responsible for interference in the 2016 elections and they are interfering in this years elections' all he can do is claim it is all a hoax.  But no one but his 'base', Rand Paul, and Dana Rohrabacher actually believe him. 
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 04:48:34 PM by blink »

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #86 on: August 18, 2018, 04:50:57 PM »

Offline eja117

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Now the total is over 60 former CIA officials that have rebuked Trump's removal of Brennan's security clearance.  Unfortunate that it is only former officials, but I guess the current ones would be too worried about losing their jobs.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-former-cia-officials-sign-letter-against-trumps-security-clearance-decision/
Are these basically the same intelligence officials that were illegally spying on us and lying about it and then chased Snowden to Russia, for telling us about it and refuse to try him under the whistle blower act, instead only offering to try him under the espionage act so that none of us will ever see any of the evidence?  Or are they the same ones that illegally leaked contents of a dossier compiled by a foreigner, which was paid for by a campaign, in a blatant attempt to change the election? Is it the same intelligence community that fed false information to Colin Powell so he'd lie to the UN Security Council about the need to invade Iraq? Is it the same intelligence community that couldn't catch a terrorist when his father called the FBI and told them "My son is a terrorist. He's going to do bad things." Is it the same intelligence community that blew off Russia when they tipped us off about the Tsarnaevs? Is this the same intelligence community that knew within hours that Bin Laden was behind 9/11 but was impotent to prevent it? Gee I can't imagine why people in that intelligence community could possibly be candidates for having their security clearances yanked. Does anyone else get tired of hearing how that community is a bunch of patriots and good Americans?

Did Trump use any of those 'issues' as a basis for removing Brennan's security clearance?  Nope he didn't.

If you want to go into a complete off the rails indictment of the US national security apparatus, feel free, but maybe do it in your own thread.
Yeah, I'm sure none of this is related on any level.

It's a little interesting the left's answer to all this is "There's no deep state. The intelligence community isn't doing anything cruddy. They just have a big workload and keep stumbling into deep statey type stuff."

Has anyone gotten Snowden's quotes on all this?

Has wikileaks posted anything lately?

Snowden, Wikileaks, deep state have nothing do do with the removal of the security clearance.  This was about Trump finding a way to be vindictive to a former intelligence officer because he didn't like being criticized. 

The real problem though is that even when every intelligence agency tells Trump 'Russia is responsible for interference in the 2016 elections and they are interfering in this years elections' all he can do is claim it is all a hoax.  But no one but his 'base', Rand Paul, and Dana Rohrabacher actually believe him.
And then we find out more incompetence, lawbreaking, and blatant partisanship in the intelligence community and the left says "pay no attention to that!"

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #87 on: August 18, 2018, 05:05:12 PM »

Offline blink

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Now the total is over 60 former CIA officials that have rebuked Trump's removal of Brennan's security clearance.  Unfortunate that it is only former officials, but I guess the current ones would be too worried about losing their jobs.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-former-cia-officials-sign-letter-against-trumps-security-clearance-decision/
Are these basically the same intelligence officials that were illegally spying on us and lying about it and then chased Snowden to Russia, for telling us about it and refuse to try him under the whistle blower act, instead only offering to try him under the espionage act so that none of us will ever see any of the evidence?  Or are they the same ones that illegally leaked contents of a dossier compiled by a foreigner, which was paid for by a campaign, in a blatant attempt to change the election? Is it the same intelligence community that fed false information to Colin Powell so he'd lie to the UN Security Council about the need to invade Iraq? Is it the same intelligence community that couldn't catch a terrorist when his father called the FBI and told them "My son is a terrorist. He's going to do bad things." Is it the same intelligence community that blew off Russia when they tipped us off about the Tsarnaevs? Is this the same intelligence community that knew within hours that Bin Laden was behind 9/11 but was impotent to prevent it? Gee I can't imagine why people in that intelligence community could possibly be candidates for having their security clearances yanked. Does anyone else get tired of hearing how that community is a bunch of patriots and good Americans?

Did Trump use any of those 'issues' as a basis for removing Brennan's security clearance?  Nope he didn't.

If you want to go into a complete off the rails indictment of the US national security apparatus, feel free, but maybe do it in your own thread.
Yeah, I'm sure none of this is related on any level.

It's a little interesting the left's answer to all this is "There's no deep state. The intelligence community isn't doing anything cruddy. They just have a big workload and keep stumbling into deep statey type stuff."

Has anyone gotten Snowden's quotes on all this?

Has wikileaks posted anything lately?

Snowden, Wikileaks, deep state have nothing do do with the removal of the security clearance.  This was about Trump finding a way to be vindictive to a former intelligence officer because he didn't like being criticized. 

The real problem though is that even when every intelligence agency tells Trump 'Russia is responsible for interference in the 2016 elections and they are interfering in this years elections' all he can do is claim it is all a hoax.  But no one but his 'base', Rand Paul, and Dana Rohrabacher actually believe him.
And then we find out more incompetence, lawbreaking, and blatant partisanship in the intelligence community and the left says "pay no attention to that!"

So this thread is about Trump revoking Brennan's security clearance.  Do you have any sources or information stating the reason he did it relates to any of the stuff you have posted? 

Have there been bad things done by us intelligence services in the past.  Yes of course.  Is it directly related to what Trump did?  no.


Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #88 on: August 18, 2018, 06:19:08 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Now the total is over 60 former CIA officials that have rebuked Trump's removal of Brennan's security clearance.  Unfortunate that it is only former officials, but I guess the current ones would be too worried about losing their jobs.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-former-cia-officials-sign-letter-against-trumps-security-clearance-decision/
Are these basically the same intelligence officials that were illegally spying on us and lying about it and then chased Snowden to Russia, for telling us about it and refuse to try him under the whistle blower act, instead only offering to try him under the espionage act so that none of us will ever see any of the evidence?  Or are they the same ones that illegally leaked contents of a dossier compiled by a foreigner, which was paid for by a campaign, in a blatant attempt to change the election? Is it the same intelligence community that fed false information to Colin Powell so he'd lie to the UN Security Council about the need to invade Iraq? Is it the same intelligence community that couldn't catch a terrorist when his father called the FBI and told them "My son is a terrorist. He's going to do bad things." Is it the same intelligence community that blew off Russia when they tipped us off about the Tsarnaevs? Is this the same intelligence community that knew within hours that Bin Laden was behind 9/11 but was impotent to prevent it? Gee I can't imagine why people in that intelligence community could possibly be candidates for having their security clearances yanked. Does anyone else get tired of hearing how that community is a bunch of patriots and good Americans?

Did Trump use any of those 'issues' as a basis for removing Brennan's security clearance?  Nope he didn't.

If you want to go into a complete off the rails indictment of the US national security apparatus, feel free, but maybe do it in your own thread.
Yeah, I'm sure none of this is related on any level.

It's a little interesting the left's answer to all this is "There's no deep state. The intelligence community isn't doing anything cruddy. They just have a big workload and keep stumbling into deep statey type stuff."

Has anyone gotten Snowden's quotes on all this?

Has wikileaks posted anything lately?

Snowden, Wikileaks, deep state have nothing do do with the removal of the security clearance.  This was about Trump finding a way to be vindictive to a former intelligence officer because he didn't like being criticized. 

The real problem though is that even when every intelligence agency tells Trump 'Russia is responsible for interference in the 2016 elections and they are interfering in this years elections' all he can do is claim it is all a hoax.  But no one but his 'base', Rand Paul, and Dana Rohrabacher actually believe him.
And then we find out more incompetence, lawbreaking, and blatant partisanship in the intelligence community and the left says "pay no attention to that!"


If this wasn't Donald Trump we are talking about, then I'd say your knee-jerk response that Trump made a sound decision based on thoughtful assessment of the character, competence and trustworthiness of the former CIA director could be reasonable.   But we are talking about Donald Trump, who gives us frequent credible evidence that his decisions are impulsive and regularly based on things he's heard on Fox News, or whispered from Miller or Bannon, or simply because someone said something about him that was unflattering.  I understand that all the things you suggest that might justify punitive actions toward Brennan could be true -- I am simply astounded that your instincts tell you, in the absence of known facts (rather than speculative "facts"), that Trump's decision is likely to be justified and well-reasoned.   

My instinct is not to trust either political side, but absolutely under no circumstances do I give Donald Trump the benefit of the doubt, ever.  I used to (including the belief that he would become more presidential and less divisive once president), but his lying, narcissism and impulsivity have earned him the burden of proof.   He may be justified in his actions (I am sure sometimes he is), but it is never my initial expectation that he is.

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #89 on: August 18, 2018, 10:33:41 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Do you remember the 2010 election?  Conservative groups were way more active.  You trounced the liberal groups.  And accordingly, yeah, you created way more groups, and so way more were caught up in this, because there were simply more being started up.

That’s the short story, of course.  The slightly longer story is that a lot of the Tea Party groups that were starting and found instructions online about how to start up a 501(c)(4) organization, and had shared those instructions with each other.  Unfortunately those instructions they found weren’t correct, and so many (but not all) of the applications had the same error.  So what happened is a couple of employees in Cincinnati, who would normally see about 10 applications per month instead started seeing 100 applications per month, because you guys were so freaking motivated.  Many of them had errors, and they all seemed to be related to each other because they had similar names and the same errors.  So they called DC, and someone in DC gave Bob the assignment.  And Bob, who was clueless, and not a lawyer, said “send all the Patriot and Tea Party groups to me.”  So that’s what the Cincinnati people did (even tho they should have approved the ones that came in that were correct).  And then Bob sat on them, because that’s what Bob did to all of the work he got.

I mean this truly, if this didn’t blow up and cause a huge scandal, Bob would still be at the IRS.  And this time around the people in Cincinnati would have called Bob and said “Hey, there’s all these groups called Indivisible and they all look like they’re related, what should we do?” And Bob would have said “Send them to me” and would have just sat on them.

But there are some things that no one talks about, and I want to highlight them.

1) Most of the applications that were sent to DC instead of being instantly approved had substantial errors in them.
2) Yeah, workload really did mater.  TEGE (Tax-Exempt and Government Entities) has its workforce slashed over the course of the decade (by both Bush and Obama), and there was a huge influx of applications in 2009 and 2010 that they simply didn’t have the staff to deal with them, even if they had competent staff instead of Bob.
3) In 2009, the Tea Party groups all said they were separate from Republicans and non-partisan.  So even though they shouldn’t have been singled out in the manner that they were, all the applications indicated that they were non-partisan groups, and people legitimately didn’t realize they would be doing something that might seem partisan in hindsight.
4) The result of all this is that if you want to start up your own tax-exempt group, you can do so very easily and no one will stop you even if you break all the rules.  There is zero oversight now.  And this is a problem.  Are charities using their money how they say? Who knows.  Are (c)(4)s electioneering on behalf of (c)(3)s? Who cares (and most people don’t even know what that means).  Is your contribution to a terrorist organization tax-deductible now? Quite probably.  And are very rich people giving money to foundations they control, writing off the donations, and using the funds of said foundation to benefit themselves.  Absolutely.  But we’re okay with all of that because Republicans who trounced Democrats in the election get to feel persecuted at the same time they actually won.

Anyway, all this is extremely off-topic.

Wow. Thank you for providing such a thorough explanation - TP. :)