Author Topic: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance  (Read 3556 times)

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Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #60 on: August 17, 2018, 01:03:44 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Some follow-up:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/16/politics/mcraven-trump-brennan-security-clearance-revoke/index.html

Quote
"Through your actions, you have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children, humiliated us on the world stage and, worst of all, divided us as a nation," McRaven said of Trump.
"If you think for a moment that your McCarthy-era tactics will suppress the voices of criticism, you are sadly mistaken. The criticism will continue until you become the leader we prayed you would be," he added.

This is a truly stunning rebuke by Admiral McRaven.   McRaven's credentials and character are considered unassailable.  He is incredibly highly respected by basically everyone, from the rank & file to the top.   If Trump turns and does his usual vulgar, petty attacks against him as well ...
Tp for the quote. This is astonishing for someone of his background. I am sure he will continue to speak out and I hope others join him.

It's really not that astonishing.  McRaven has been rumored to be a Democrat Presidential / Vice Presidential candidate at least since 2014.  He's been criticizing Trump for years.  This is a good way for him to renew his exposure.
throw dirt on him all you want Roy.  it won't diminish what he's done.  Republican politicians have shown no backbone to stand up to Trump.  Seems like it's being left to non-politicians of better character.

Lol. You crack me up. Where did I throw dirt on him?  I stated well-known facts that for some reason caused you to overreact. Why?

He’s a Trump critic and Democrat that’s been linked to running for national office. Those are facts. They don’t make his Trump criticism wrong, but they do make that criticism far from “astonishing “.
glad you enjoyed the laugh but let's be honest and clear here --> your comments were clearly meant to cast him in a negative, self-serving light rather than a positive one.   This move did take some guts and backbone regardless of his political affiliation.

Sorry, but no. Your mind-reading skills must be a little rusty.

My post was to point out that these comments aren’t in any way a surprise. He’s been critical of Trump before, he’s a possible Democrat VP or even Presidential candidate. It doesn’t make his comments wrong, it just makes them unsurprising, at least to anybody familiar with McRaven’s past commentary.

Why would anybody be “astonished” that McRaven criticized Trump? He’s done it loudly and forcefully before, and he’ll do it again. If he was on active duty I might be surprised, but he’s retired and has moved on to the next phase of his career, which allows him to speak out as he sees fit.
well, your mind-reading skills or just reading skills are a bit rusty too then Roy because I wasn't the one that said this was 'astonishing'.  I called into question your comment that cast a negative tone on what he did suggesting it was done for political purposes rather than showing some moral character and backbone in a situation where our politicians are seriously failing us as a nation.

My comments were specifically related to the “astonishing “ comment. Any negativity you read into the facts I posted is due to your own bias and/or your misunderstanding of the context of the conversation you injected yourself into. The guy is a Trump critic and a Democrat connected to national office.  One more time: those facts don’t invalidate his opinion, they just make it unsurprising.

Do you disagree? Are you surprised or astonished?
It's really not that astonishing.  McRaven has been rumored to be a Democrat Presidential / Vice Presidential candidate at least since 2014.  He's been criticizing Trump for years.  This is a good way for him to renew his exposure.

just to help clarify the negative part of your post -- see the bolded part.  that statement is a negative connotation that he's doing it to get a attention with an ulterior motive.  that's not a bias on my part.  that's not a "fact" but your interpretation of why he did this. 

one other comment -- nothing in what you originally said really conveys your subsequent comments about what he said 'not being wrong'. 

As for being 'astonished' - a bit of an overstatement I think but as someone who has become cynical about Washington the past several administrations, I was a bit surprised someone in a high position stuck their neck out at all on this to support Brennan that wasn't looking for immediate political gain for doing so.  In short, if a Dem in congress did this, I'd give them some credit but see it more of a grandstand move whereas with McRaven it comes across as more of a moral support move. 
« Last Edit: August 17, 2018, 01:09:09 PM by slamtheking »

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #61 on: August 17, 2018, 01:14:36 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I think the think that rings disingenuous is that, under the guise of commenting on the question of whether McRaven making the comment is "astonishing" or not, what Roy appeared to really do was raise the partisan flag in a way that to more than one of us clearly looked like an attempt to dismiss the credibility of what he said.  If that was not Roy's intent, then fine.  But it clearly played that way.

What is "astonishing" about the remarks is less about the speaker than about what had to be said.  And that the same message has been stated as well by multiple former top IC/DOD officials from a wide variety of partisan backgrounds re-inforces that point.   The issue is not about party membership.

So frankly, it reads as very disingenuous and as yet another red herring to have thrown the partisan flag down and make the thread about McRaven's party affiliation.

TP for stating the point better than I've been stating it.

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #62 on: August 17, 2018, 01:24:26 PM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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I think the think that rings disingenuous is that, under the guise of commenting on the question of whether McRaven making the comment is "astonishing" or not, what Roy appeared to really do was raise the partisan flag in a way that to more than one of us clearly looked like an attempt to dismiss the credibility of what he said.  If that was not Roy's intent, then fine.  But it clearly played that way.

What is "astonishing" about the remarks is less about the speaker than about what had to be said.  And that the same message has been stated as well by multiple former top IC/DOD officials from a wide variety of partisan backgrounds re-inforces that point.   The issue is not about party membership.

So frankly, it reads as very disingenuous and as yet another red herring to have thrown the partisan flag down and make the thread about McRaven's party affiliation.

TP for stating the point better than I've been stating it.
When one becomes accustomed to putting party before country it is easy to assign that thinking to others.
The future of this nation depends on people like retired United States Navy Admiral McRaven to voice their opposition to the current path.
It also depends on  a lot of trump supporters pulling their heads out of the sand.

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #63 on: August 17, 2018, 01:42:44 PM »

Offline fandrew

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Just a little FYI, security clearances have an end date. Two examples are secret and top secret. for a secret clearance, it lasts for 10 years. and for a top secret clearance, it lasts for 5 years. when it is about a year out from its expiration you need to go through the process of being investigated again to renew your clearance.

For high-level government individuals who come in without a clearance, they are given priority and can be given interim clearances that last for a year or so anyhow. I'm pretty sure that federal elected officials gain their clearance upon being elected, and it is very hard for them to lose it.

Also, just because you have a clearance does not mean you have access to information. All information is need-to-know. You need the clearance to be allowed access to sensitive information. So someone who leaves a job or even gets fired can find a job again where their clearance can be used, but they can't just demand information because they have a clearance, or have access to a secure location. The clearance allows for the permission to be given for the access, its not the permission for the access itself.

So people like Brennan can't do anything with their clearance other than using it to get a job that requires it anyhow. If a new administration came into power he could also get his clearance reinstated upon review.

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Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #64 on: August 17, 2018, 03:50:20 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I think the think that rings disingenuous is that, under the guise of commenting on the question of whether McRaven making the comment is "astonishing" or not, what Roy appeared to really do was raise the partisan flag in a way that to more than one of us clearly looked like an attempt to dismiss the credibility of what he said.  If that was not Roy's intent, then fine.  But it clearly played that way.

What is "astonishing" about the remarks is less about the speaker than about what had to be said.  And that the same message has been stated as well by multiple former top IC/DOD officials from a wide variety of partisan backgrounds re-inforces that point.   The issue is not about party membership.

So frankly, it reads as very disingenuous and as yet another red herring to have thrown the partisan flag down and make the thread about McRaven's party affiliation.

It only looks like that way if your mind is poisoned ahead of time, making you preconditioned to disregard anything a conservative said.

I already indicated that I think Trump is wrong here, which in turn makes me aligned with McRaven.  Why would I be trying to disparage him, when I'm defending his position? Again, it's a bit sad that nick is the only one that picked up on that.  People are so intent on calling each other out that they can't even tell when they're in agreement with one another.


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Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #65 on: August 17, 2018, 08:26:26 PM »

Offline blink

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I and many others have been suggesting earlier in this thread that the white house is using the revoking of security clearances as a distraction to remove bad press from the media cycle.  Sounds like that speculation was true. 

'Trump wants to sign “most, if not all” of them, said one senior White House official, who indicated that communications aides, including press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders and Bill Shine, the newly named deputy chief of staff, have discussed the optimum times to release them as a distraction during unfavorable news cycles.'

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/former-intelligence-officials-rebuke-trump-for-pulling-brennans-security-clearance/2018/08/17/ea8382f2-a20d-11e8-8e87-c869fe70a721_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ed6394f78488


Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #66 on: August 17, 2018, 08:55:10 PM »

Offline blink

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Now the total is over 60 former CIA officials that have rebuked Trump's removal of Brennan's security clearance.  Unfortunate that it is only former officials, but I guess the current ones would be too worried about losing their jobs.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-former-cia-officials-sign-letter-against-trumps-security-clearance-decision/

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #67 on: August 17, 2018, 11:06:37 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Some follow-up:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/16/politics/mcraven-trump-brennan-security-clearance-revoke/index.html

Quote
"Through your actions, you have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children, humiliated us on the world stage and, worst of all, divided us as a nation," McRaven said of Trump.
"If you think for a moment that your McCarthy-era tactics will suppress the voices of criticism, you are sadly mistaken. The criticism will continue until you become the leader we prayed you would be," he added.

This is a truly stunning rebuke by Admiral McRaven.   McRaven's credentials and character are considered unassailable.  He is incredibly highly respected by basically everyone, from the rank & file to the top.   If Trump turns and does his usual vulgar, petty attacks against him as well ...
Tp for the quote. This is astonishing for someone of his background. I am sure he will continue to speak out and I hope others join him.

It's really not that astonishing.  McRaven has been rumored to be a Democrat Presidential / Vice Presidential candidate at least since 2014.  He's been criticizing Trump for years.  This is a good way for him to renew his exposure.

Yes, when he twice emphatically stated that he would not be running with Hillary and has come nowhere close to any level of the political arena since that time. ::)

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #68 on: August 17, 2018, 11:08:32 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Now the total is over 60 former CIA officials that have rebuked Trump's removal of Brennan's security clearance.  Unfortunate that it is only former officials, but I guess the current ones would be too worried about losing their jobs.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-former-cia-officials-sign-letter-against-trumps-security-clearance-decision/

People still write letters? ;D

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #69 on: August 18, 2018, 02:40:06 AM »

Offline eja117

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Now the total is over 60 former CIA officials that have rebuked Trump's removal of Brennan's security clearance.  Unfortunate that it is only former officials, but I guess the current ones would be too worried about losing their jobs.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-former-cia-officials-sign-letter-against-trumps-security-clearance-decision/
Are these basically the same intelligence officials that were illegally spying on us and lying about it and then chased Snowden to Russia, for telling us about it and refuse to try him under the whistle blower act, instead only offering to try him under the espionage act so that none of us will ever see any of the evidence?  Or are they the same ones that illegally leaked contents of a dossier compiled by a foreigner, which was paid for by a campaign, in a blatant attempt to change the election? Is it the same intelligence community that fed false information to Colin Powell so he'd lie to the UN Security Council about the need to invade Iraq? Is it the same intelligence community that couldn't catch a terrorist when his father called the FBI and told them "My son is a terrorist. He's going to do bad things." Is it the same intelligence community that blew off Russia when they tipped us off about the Tsarnaevs? Is this the same intelligence community that knew within hours that Bin Laden was behind 9/11 but was impotent to prevent it? Gee I can't imagine why people in that intelligence community could possibly be candidates for having their security clearances yanked. Does anyone else get tired of hearing how that community is a bunch of patriots and good Americans?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 03:01:32 AM by eja117 »

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #70 on: August 18, 2018, 08:24:09 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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Now the total is over 60 former CIA officials that have rebuked Trump's removal of Brennan's security clearance.  Unfortunate that it is only former officials, but I guess the current ones would be too worried about losing their jobs.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-former-cia-officials-sign-letter-against-trumps-security-clearance-decision/
Are these basically the same intelligence officials that were illegally spying on us and lying about it and then chased Snowden to Russia, for telling us about it and refuse to try him under the whistle blower act, instead only offering to try him under the espionage act so that none of us will ever see any of the evidence?  Or are they the same ones that illegally leaked contents of a dossier compiled by a foreigner, which was paid for by a campaign, in a blatant attempt to change the election? Is it the same intelligence community that fed false information to Colin Powell so he'd lie to the UN Security Council about the need to invade Iraq? Is it the same intelligence community that couldn't catch a terrorist when his father called the FBI and told them "My son is a terrorist. He's going to do bad things." Is it the same intelligence community that blew off Russia when they tipped us off about the Tsarnaevs? Is this the same intelligence community that knew within hours that Bin Laden was behind 9/11 but was impotent to prevent it? Gee I can't imagine why people in that intelligence community could possibly be candidates for having their security clearances yanked. Does anyone else get tired of hearing how that community is a bunch of patriots and good Americans?
deviating from the topic but you have a fair point about the agencies not being perfect and having some explaining to do on that however let me pose these 2 questions to you:
1. who do you think is still at agencies?  i'll help you out -- it's the same people. 
2. what do you think is going to be done to address that?  Considering the corruption in the Trump camp, would you really want Trump to be filling the agencies with his lackeys whose primary qualification would be loyalty to him?  That assumes he even knows anyone who'd be at least minimally qualified to work there.

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #71 on: August 18, 2018, 10:16:26 AM »

Offline eja117

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Well if people in his staff made the hires instead of the intelligence community spying on him and us the intelligence community could start spying on his enemies. I'm fine with that. I also wasn't a big fan of when the IRS was weaponized against conservatives. A little turning of the tables wouldn't bother me at all. Quite honestly maybe the left should have thought of this before they did all this stuff.

And I am just guessing.....we'll know in the next 3 weeks if Mueller has anything substantial on Trump because now that Trump has done this if there's anything out there it will be leaked. I think if he gets through the next 3 weeks he gets through the next 3 years
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 10:21:30 AM by eja117 »

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #72 on: August 18, 2018, 10:49:10 AM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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Now the total is over 60 former CIA officials that have rebuked Trump's removal of Brennan's security clearance.  Unfortunate that it is only former officials, but I guess the current ones would be too worried about losing their jobs.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-former-cia-officials-sign-letter-against-trumps-security-clearance-decision/
Are these basically the same intelligence officials that were illegally spying on us and lying about it and then chased Snowden to Russia, for telling us about it and refuse to try him under the whistle blower act, instead only offering to try him under the espionage act so that none of us will ever see any of the evidence?  Or are they the same ones that illegally leaked contents of a dossier compiled by a foreigner, which was paid for by a campaign, in a blatant attempt to change the election? Is it the same intelligence community that fed false information to Colin Powell so he'd lie to the UN Security Council about the need to invade Iraq? Is it the same intelligence community that couldn't catch a terrorist when his father called the FBI and told them "My son is a terrorist. He's going to do bad things." Is it the same intelligence community that blew off Russia when they tipped us off about the Tsarnaevs? Is this the same intelligence community that knew within hours that Bin Laden was behind 9/11 but was impotent to prevent it? Gee I can't imagine why people in that intelligence community could possibly be candidates for having their security clearances yanked. Does anyone else get tired of hearing how that community is a bunch of patriots and good Americans?

A few facts mixed in with a bunch of partisan fiction.

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #73 on: August 18, 2018, 10:52:16 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Now the total is over 60 former CIA officials that have rebuked Trump's removal of Brennan's security clearance.  Unfortunate that it is only former officials, but I guess the current ones would be too worried about losing their jobs.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-former-cia-officials-sign-letter-against-trumps-security-clearance-decision/
Are these basically the same intelligence officials that were illegally spying on us and lying about it and then chased Snowden to Russia, for telling us about it and refuse to try him under the whistle blower act, instead only offering to try him under the espionage act so that none of us will ever see any of the evidence?  Or are they the same ones that illegally leaked contents of a dossier compiled by a foreigner, which was paid for by a campaign, in a blatant attempt to change the election? Is it the same intelligence community that fed false information to Colin Powell so he'd lie to the UN Security Council about the need to invade Iraq? Is it the same intelligence community that couldn't catch a terrorist when his father called the FBI and told them "My son is a terrorist. He's going to do bad things." Is it the same intelligence community that blew off Russia when they tipped us off about the Tsarnaevs? Is this the same intelligence community that knew within hours that Bin Laden was behind 9/11 but was impotent to prevent it? Gee I can't imagine why people in that intelligence community could possibly be candidates for having their security clearances yanked. Does anyone else get tired of hearing how that community is a bunch of patriots and good Americans?

A few facts mixed in with a bunch of partisan fiction.

Sounds like eja would be qualified to run a news network, then.


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Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #74 on: August 18, 2018, 10:57:22 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Well if people in his staff made the hires instead of the intelligence community spying on him and us the intelligence community could start spying on his enemies. I'm fine with that. I also wasn't a big fan of when the IRS was weaponized against conservatives. A little turning of the tables wouldn't bother me at all. Quite honestly maybe the left should have thought of this before they did all this stuff.

And I am just guessing.....we'll know in the next 3 weeks if Mueller has anything substantial on Trump because now that Trump has done this if there's anything out there it will be leaked. I think if he gets through the next 3 weeks he gets through the next 3 years

This didn’t happen, quite frankly.  I’ll never convince you otherwise, because you’ll believe what people who have benefited from this lie want you to believe, but that flat out isn’t close to what happened.
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