Author Topic: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance  (Read 3594 times)

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Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2018, 02:33:53 PM »

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And, I’d be fine revoking everyone’s clearance one year after leaving government service.


This over-simplifies how clearances works and is simply not practical.

Clearances aren't just held by direct government employees, but also by contractors.  And contracts end and people shift jobs in the real world.   Just because someone has for the moment left government service doesn't mean they won't be resuming government service later, in the same or a different capacity.  In fact that is very common.

Getting a clearance is the result of an investigation, a gathering of information about the individual that is expensive.

Thus clearances are ultimately associated with _people_.  Not who they work for.   And this makes perfect sense.  Whether someone is trustworthy is not based on who they work for.

What you may be thinking about, which DOES have a lot to do with who you are working for and what you are working on is "need to know".   That is a separate but important distinction from 'clearances'.

Having clearances is an aspect of a person -- it establishes level of trustworthiness.

But whether they have access to any particular information still has to depend not just on their trustworthiness, but also on their need to know.

In normal procedures, when someone is "off boarded" from a program, they are debriefed and no longer have a "need to know".  Thus while they may (usually) still have their clearances, they no longer have access.

Even before Trump pulled this maneuver, it isn't as if Brenner could have just walked into any top secret facility and gotten access to any top secret document that he wanted.   He would have had to been approved for access based on a need to know.

Trump pulling this maneuver is pure capriciousness.   It doesn't affect Brenner's access to classified information right now (because he probably doesn't have any based on "need to know").  It potentially, however, impacts his future employment opportunities in a big way.   So it is very much punitive.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 03:25:08 PM by mmmmm »
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Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2018, 02:42:00 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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you know, attacking brennan may not turn out the way trump expects.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/16/opinion/john-brennan-trump-russia-collusion-security-clearance.html
in all honesty, I don't think this is going to affect Trump at all.  Until Congress holds him accountable like they're supposed to, he'll continue his act of Emperor.

Agree.

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Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2018, 03:16:15 PM »

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A general question: is there any point at which a critic becomes so vocal that they become compromised, and therefore should lose clearance?

I would think that fired employees would lose clearance. To me that’s common sense.

It would depend on the reason for their firing.   If they were fired because of an adverse security incident, or for any reason that puts their trustworthiness in question, probably.

If they were fired because, say, they just weren't good at the particular job they were hired to do, then maybe not. 

Clearances are about level of trustworthiness.  Not necessarily about how good you are at your particular job.
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And, anybody leaking secure material should lose their clearance.
Definitely agree.   Unfortunately, when the President did so, early into his term, there was no one around to fire him or take away his clearance.
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What if Brennan went beyond criticism to imply that he had inside information, and without revealing it, criticized the President? Something like, “I’ve seen some of the stuff he’s doing in North Korea, and he could get millions killed”?
Well, what if?   As far as anyone can tell, that never ever happened.   
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In this instance Trump seems petty and is further poisoning the political well, but I think it’s interesting to explore what’s appropriate in a non-Trumpian context.

It’s probably good to know what “security clearance “ means, too. Aren’t their different levels? Might it make sense to just reduce, rather than eliminate, somebody’s access?
As I indicated in my other response.  Clearances are an assigned characteristic of an individual that establish trustworthiness for access to information.  But they are not sufficient by themselves to be granted actual access to information.  For the latter, one also requires a 'need to know', as authorized by an appropriate authority.

Getting a clearance is usually a long, involved process.  The result of an investigation that isn't cheap.   Revoking that without actual legitimate cause is wasteful.

There are long, established procedures and regulations around this that have had decades of careful thought put into.    What Trump has just done is very dangerous and threatens to put serious, dangerous political cracks into the foundation of how our national security works.
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Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2018, 05:57:26 PM »

Offline Greenback

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Many people wonder how Mr. Brennan got a security clearance in the first place.
Everyone wants truth on his side, not everyone wants to be on the side of truth.

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2018, 07:21:59 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Many people wonder how Mr. Brennan got a security clearance in the first place.

I'm pretty sure that it goes with becoming the head of the CIA, so...

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2018, 07:25:53 PM »

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Many people wonder how Mr. Brennan got a security clearance in the first place.

I'm pretty sure that it goes with becoming the head of the CIA, so...
And he was a top ranking intelligence officer under both republican and democratic administrations, so obviously both sides of the aisle felt he should have had his clearances.

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2018, 08:17:14 PM »

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Many people wonder how Mr. Brennan got a security clearance in the first place.
Who and why? Please try to avoid making generalized and sweeping statements that are not supported by any data or information.

Adding a link here would help as well.
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Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2018, 08:24:40 PM »

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Many people wonder how Mr. Brennan got a security clearance in the first place.

Who are the "many" people? I'll bet it's a few folks heard on Fox News or on conservative radio.  You could find a few people, especially in this political climate, to say anything.  Of course, now "many" people believe them 

"Many" is pure Trump-mimicry.

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #38 on: August 16, 2018, 09:35:11 PM »

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Some follow-up:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/16/politics/mcraven-trump-brennan-security-clearance-revoke/index.html

Quote
"Through your actions, you have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children, humiliated us on the world stage and, worst of all, divided us as a nation," McRaven said of Trump.
"If you think for a moment that your McCarthy-era tactics will suppress the voices of criticism, you are sadly mistaken. The criticism will continue until you become the leader we prayed you would be," he added.

This is a truly stunning rebuke by Admiral McRaven.   McRaven's credentials and character are considered unassailable.  He is incredibly highly respected by basically everyone, from the rank & file to the top.   If Trump turns and does his usual vulgar, petty attacks against him as well ...

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Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2018, 09:56:26 PM »

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Some follow-up:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/16/politics/mcraven-trump-brennan-security-clearance-revoke/index.html

Quote
"Through your actions, you have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children, humiliated us on the world stage and, worst of all, divided us as a nation," McRaven said of Trump.
"If you think for a moment that your McCarthy-era tactics will suppress the voices of criticism, you are sadly mistaken. The criticism will continue until you become the leader we prayed you would be," he added.

This is a truly stunning rebuke by Admiral McRaven.   McRaven's credentials and character are considered unassailable.  He is incredibly highly respected by basically everyone, from the rank & file to the top.   If Trump turns and does his usual vulgar, petty attacks against him as well ...
Tp for the quote. This is astonishing for someone of his background. I am sure he will continue to speak out and I hope others join him.
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Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #40 on: August 16, 2018, 10:09:30 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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you know, attacking brennan may not turn out the way trump expects.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/16/opinion/john-brennan-trump-russia-collusion-security-clearance.html
in all honesty, I don't think this is going to affect Trump at all.  Until Congress holds him accountable like they're supposed to, he'll continue his act of Emperor.

Agree.

Seconded, unfortunately. :-\

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2018, 10:13:50 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Many people wonder how Mr. Brennan got a security clearance in the first place.

I'm pretty sure that it goes with becoming the head of the CIA, so...
And he was a top ranking intelligence officer under both republican and democratic administrations, so obviously both sides of the aisle felt he should have had his clearances.

While I have absolutely no argument with you, there, at the same time, none of that matters to Trump and his base. :-\

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2018, 10:15:24 PM »

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Some follow-up:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/16/politics/mcraven-trump-brennan-security-clearance-revoke/index.html

Quote
"Through your actions, you have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children, humiliated us on the world stage and, worst of all, divided us as a nation," McRaven said of Trump.
"If you think for a moment that your McCarthy-era tactics will suppress the voices of criticism, you are sadly mistaken. The criticism will continue until you become the leader we prayed you would be," he added.

This is a truly stunning rebuke by Admiral McRaven.   McRaven's credentials and character are considered unassailable.  He is incredibly highly respected by basically everyone, from the rank & file to the top.   If Trump turns and does his usual vulgar, petty attacks against him as well ...
Tp for the quote. This is astonishing for someone of his background. I am sure he will continue to speak out and I hope others join him.

It's really not that astonishing.  McRaven has been rumored to be a Democrat Presidential / Vice Presidential candidate at least since 2014.  He's been criticizing Trump for years.  This is a good way for him to renew his exposure.


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Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2018, 10:15:42 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Some follow-up:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/16/politics/mcraven-trump-brennan-security-clearance-revoke/index.html

Quote
"Through your actions, you have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children, humiliated us on the world stage and, worst of all, divided us as a nation," McRaven said of Trump.
"If you think for a moment that your McCarthy-era tactics will suppress the voices of criticism, you are sadly mistaken. The criticism will continue until you become the leader we prayed you would be," he added.

This is a truly stunning rebuke by Admiral McRaven.   McRaven's credentials and character are considered unassailable.  He is incredibly highly respected by basically everyone, from the rank & file to the top.   If Trump turns and does his usual vulgar, petty attacks against him as well ...

What do you mean "if", lol? ;D Ugh.

Re: Trump revokes Brennan's security clearance
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2018, 10:51:27 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Some follow-up:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/16/politics/mcraven-trump-brennan-security-clearance-revoke/index.html

Quote
"Through your actions, you have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children, humiliated us on the world stage and, worst of all, divided us as a nation," McRaven said of Trump.
"If you think for a moment that your McCarthy-era tactics will suppress the voices of criticism, you are sadly mistaken. The criticism will continue until you become the leader we prayed you would be," he added.

This is a truly stunning rebuke by Admiral McRaven.   McRaven's credentials and character are considered unassailable.  He is incredibly highly respected by basically everyone, from the rank & file to the top.   If Trump turns and does his usual vulgar, petty attacks against him as well ...
Tp for the quote. This is astonishing for someone of his background. I am sure he will continue to speak out and I hope others join him.

It's really not that astonishing.  McRaven has been rumored to be a Democrat Presidential / Vice Presidential candidate at least since 2014.  He's been criticizing Trump for years.  This is a good way for him to renew his exposure.
throw dirt on him all you want Roy.  it won't diminish what he's done.  Republican politicians have shown no backbone to stand up to Trump.  Seems like it's being left to non-politicians of better character.