Author Topic: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"  (Read 5454 times)

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Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #90 on: August 17, 2018, 05:06:51 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Funny how the tide has turned on Towns on here.  He walked on water a year ago.  When I said I'd take Embiid over Towns, I was told that was crazy talk.

Yeah this is kind of extreme, isn't it? Towns averaged 21 and 12 last season with an eFG% of 60%, a year removed from a 25 and 12 season on 58 eFG%. He's one of the best, most versatile scorers in the NBA and last season he only took 14 shots a game because his team's offense is so screwed up.

He's not a good defender, it's true. It's also true that he's only 23 years old, the same age as Yabusele and younger than Semi Ojeleye.

Last season, I think Kyrie was better but Towns is still an All NBA caliber player and could easily be better than Kyrie this year.

Don't get me wrong, I think Towns is very good and still will get better. I just don't want him at the price of Irving and Brown (and most seem to agree) especially if we are only getting Teague back alongside him. i think that is why it is coming off as so negative towards Towns.

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #91 on: August 17, 2018, 05:14:00 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Funny how the tide has turned on Towns on here.  He walked on water a year ago.  When I said I'd take Embiid over Towns, I was told that was crazy talk.

Yeah this is kind of extreme, isn't it? Towns averaged 21 and 12 last season with an eFG% of 60%, a year removed from a 25 and 12 season on 58 eFG%. He's one of the best, most versatile scorers in the NBA and last season he only took 14 shots a game because his team's offense is so screwed up.

He's not a good defender, it's true. It's also true that he's only 23 years old, the same age as Yabusele and younger than Semi Ojeleye.

Last season, I think Kyrie was better but Towns is still an All NBA caliber player and could easily be better than Kyrie this year.
Towns needs to show he can contribute to winning.  If Butler had missed one or two more games last season, the TWolves would have missed the playoffs yet again. 

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #92 on: August 17, 2018, 05:15:01 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Funny how the tide has turned on Towns on here.  He walked on water a year ago.  When I said I'd take Embiid over Towns, I was told that was crazy talk.

Yeah this is kind of extreme, isn't it? Towns averaged 21 and 12 last season with an eFG% of 60%, a year removed from a 25 and 12 season on 58 eFG%. He's one of the best, most versatile scorers in the NBA and last season he only took 14 shots a game because his team's offense is so screwed up.

He's not a good defender, it's true. It's also true that he's only 23 years old, the same age as Yabusele and younger than Semi Ojeleye.

Last season, I think Kyrie was better but Towns is still an All NBA caliber player and could easily be better than Kyrie this year.

Don't get me wrong, I think Towns is very good and still will get better. I just don't want him at the price of Irving and Brown (and most seem to agree) especially if we are only getting Teague back alongside him. i think that is why it is coming off as so negative towards Towns.

I agree with that, for sure.
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Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #93 on: August 17, 2018, 05:27:40 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Funny how the tide has turned on Towns on here.  He walked on water a year ago.  When I said I'd take Embiid over Towns, I was told that was crazy talk.

You know that context matters right? Many people have said that if healthy Embiid is a more complete player than cause embiid plays defense (which funny enough is still what he is getting slammed for here). The issue was his health and durability. Has he answered that question after a season with no leg or back issues, maybe, but that was the whole point of the debate. I also don't believe you really forgot that either, so this is a pretty weak and hollow self-congratulatory post you made.
Saying if healthy is really a cop out.  Embiid's health is a risk but so is Towns inability/unwillingness to play good defense.  I'm also not sure Towns has the personality/drive to be a dominant player.  Embiid certainly has and he also has a very high learning aptitude.  I factored everything in and said I'd rather have Embiid even with the health risk.  As for self-congratulatory posts, I'll bow to the master of them. 

Putting that aside, the tenor on Towns has certainly changed.  No one was saying he was the most overrated player in the league.  Pretty much everyone was high on him and some said they'd take Towns over AD.

I can't speak for everyone, but I am definitely less high on Towns than I was a year ago. I thought he would take a bigger leap this past offseason with Butler there. Instead it seems like no concerns have emerged about his motor and effort which I didn't think were known before.

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #94 on: August 17, 2018, 05:41:47 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Funny how the tide has turned on Towns on here.  He walked on water a year ago.  When I said I'd take Embiid over Towns, I was told that was crazy talk.

Yeah this is kind of extreme, isn't it? Towns averaged 21 and 12 last season with an eFG% of 60%, a year removed from a 25 and 12 season on 58 eFG%. He's one of the best, most versatile scorers in the NBA and last season he only took 14 shots a game because his team's offense is so screwed up.

He's not a good defender, it's true. It's also true that he's only 23 years old, the same age as Yabusele and younger than Semi Ojeleye.

Last season, I think Kyrie was better but Towns is still an All NBA caliber player and could easily be better than Kyrie this year.

Don't get me wrong, I think Towns is very good and still will get better. I just don't want him at the price of Irving and Brown (and most seem to agree) especially if we are only getting Teague back alongside him. i think that is why it is coming off as so negative towards Towns.
The point of this thread was based on Ainge thinking Irving was leaving after this season.  So the price of Towns would be Brown, Irving (1 season) and having Teague on the books for 2 seasons for 19M each.   Losing Irving (1 season) wouldn't really matter unless you think we've got a good shot at the championship this season.  Teague's salary wouldn't really matter since we're well over the cap.  He could be traded or stretched next offseason. 

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #95 on: August 17, 2018, 05:46:24 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Watching college players team up more and more I'm surprised the NBA has been able to keep guys that are good friends apart so long. And I suppose working/playing with friends or in a good family city is more important than getting bounced by the Warriors these days.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2018, 09:22:39 PM by Csfan1984 »
Mock "trade deadline" team: Blazers.
PG-Lillard, Napier, Baldwin
SG-McCollum, Connaughton, Wilcox
SF-Fournier, Harkless, Layman
PF-Aminu, Davis
C- Nurkic, Leonard, Collins

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #96 on: August 17, 2018, 06:30:11 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Funny how the tide has turned on Towns on here.  He walked on water a year ago.  When I said I'd take Embiid over Towns, I was told that was crazy talk.

Yeah this is kind of extreme, isn't it? Towns averaged 21 and 12 last season with an eFG% of 60%, a year removed from a 25 and 12 season on 58 eFG%. He's one of the best, most versatile scorers in the NBA and last season he only took 14 shots a game because his team's offense is so screwed up.

He's not a good defender, it's true. It's also true that he's only 23 years old, the same age as Yabusele and younger than Semi Ojeleye.

Last season, I think Kyrie was better but Towns is still an All NBA caliber player and could easily be better than Kyrie this year.

Don't get me wrong, I think Towns is very good and still will get better. I just don't want him at the price of Irving and Brown (and most seem to agree) especially if we are only getting Teague back alongside him. i think that is why it is coming off as so negative towards Towns.
The point of this thread was based on Ainge thinking Irving was leaving after this season.  So the price of Towns would be Brown, Irving (1 season) and having Teague on the books for 2 seasons for 19M each.   Losing Irving (1 season) wouldn't really matter unless you think we've got a good shot at the championship this season.  Teague's salary wouldn't really matter since we're well over the cap.  He could be traded or stretched next offseason.

We have the second or third best title odds of any team in the league depending where you look. I don't know how to quantify a 'good shot" but we are being given a 15% chance to win it all. I don't take punting that chance to zero with teague as insignificant. We have a legit chance this year of winning a championship. I don't think we should give that up for just about anything personally.

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #97 on: August 17, 2018, 06:44:52 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Funny how the tide has turned on Towns on here.  He walked on water a year ago.  When I said I'd take Embiid over Towns, I was told that was crazy talk.

Yeah this is kind of extreme, isn't it? Towns averaged 21 and 12 last season with an eFG% of 60%, a year removed from a 25 and 12 season on 58 eFG%. He's one of the best, most versatile scorers in the NBA and last season he only took 14 shots a game because his team's offense is so screwed up.

He's not a good defender, it's true. It's also true that he's only 23 years old, the same age as Yabusele and younger than Semi Ojeleye.

Last season, I think Kyrie was better but Towns is still an All NBA caliber player and could easily be better than Kyrie this year.

Don't get me wrong, I think Towns is very good and still will get better. I just don't want him at the price of Irving and Brown (and most seem to agree) especially if we are only getting Teague back alongside him. i think that is why it is coming off as so negative towards Towns.
The point of this thread was based on Ainge thinking Irving was leaving after this season.  So the price of Towns would be Brown, Irving (1 season) and having Teague on the books for 2 seasons for 19M each.   Losing Irving (1 season) wouldn't really matter unless you think we've got a good shot at the championship this season.  Teague's salary wouldn't really matter since we're well over the cap.  He could be traded or stretched next offseason.

We have the second or third best title odds of any team in the league depending where you look. I don't know how to quantify a 'good shot" but we are being given a 15% chance to win it all. I don't take punting that chance to zero with teague as insignificant. We have a legit chance this year of winning a championship. I don't think we should give that up for just about anything personally.
I'm not that high on Towns so I'd agree.  However if you are high on Towns and not that high on Brown, I think it is an easy trade to make. 

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #98 on: August 17, 2018, 08:07:14 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Funny how the tide has turned on Towns on here.  He walked on water a year ago.  When I said I'd take Embiid over Towns, I was told that was crazy talk.

Yeah this is kind of extreme, isn't it? Towns averaged 21 and 12 last season with an eFG% of 60%, a year removed from a 25 and 12 season on 58 eFG%. He's one of the best, most versatile scorers in the NBA and last season he only took 14 shots a game because his team's offense is so screwed up.

He's not a good defender, it's true. It's also true that he's only 23 years old, the same age as Yabusele and younger than Semi Ojeleye.

Last season, I think Kyrie was better but Towns is still an All NBA caliber player and could easily be better than Kyrie this year.

Don't get me wrong, I think Towns is very good and still will get better. I just don't want him at the price of Irving and Brown (and most seem to agree) especially if we are only getting Teague back alongside him. i think that is why it is coming off as so negative towards Towns.
The point of this thread was based on Ainge thinking Irving was leaving after this season.  So the price of Towns would be Brown, Irving (1 season) and having Teague on the books for 2 seasons for 19M each.   Losing Irving (1 season) wouldn't really matter unless you think we've got a good shot at the championship this season.  Teague's salary wouldn't really matter since we're well over the cap.  He could be traded or stretched next offseason.

We have the second or third best title odds of any team in the league depending where you look. I don't know how to quantify a 'good shot" but we are being given a 15% chance to win it all. I don't take punting that chance to zero with teague as insignificant. We have a legit chance this year of winning a championship. I don't think we should give that up for just about anything personally.
I'm not that high on Towns so I'd agree.  However if you are high on Towns and not that high on Brown, I think it is an easy trade to make.

Isn't it pretty hard to not be high on Brown given his age and what we just saw in the playoffs?

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #99 on: August 17, 2018, 09:16:16 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Funny how the tide has turned on Towns on here.  He walked on water a year ago.  When I said I'd take Embiid over Towns, I was told that was crazy talk.

Yeah this is kind of extreme, isn't it? Towns averaged 21 and 12 last season with an eFG% of 60%, a year removed from a 25 and 12 season on 58 eFG%. He's one of the best, most versatile scorers in the NBA and last season he only took 14 shots a game because his team's offense is so screwed up.

He's not a good defender, it's true. It's also true that he's only 23 years old, the same age as Yabusele and younger than Semi Ojeleye.

Last season, I think Kyrie was better but Towns is still an All NBA caliber player and could easily be better than Kyrie this year.

Don't get me wrong, I think Towns is very good and still will get better. I just don't want him at the price of Irving and Brown (and most seem to agree) especially if we are only getting Teague back alongside him. i think that is why it is coming off as so negative towards Towns.
The point of this thread was based on Ainge thinking Irving was leaving after this season.  So the price of Towns would be Brown, Irving (1 season) and having Teague on the books for 2 seasons for 19M each.   Losing Irving (1 season) wouldn't really matter unless you think we've got a good shot at the championship this season.  Teague's salary wouldn't really matter since we're well over the cap.  He could be traded or stretched next offseason.

We have the second or third best title odds of any team in the league depending where you look. I don't know how to quantify a 'good shot" but we are being given a 15% chance to win it all. I don't take punting that chance to zero with teague as insignificant. We have a legit chance this year of winning a championship. I don't think we should give that up for just about anything personally.
I'm not that high on Towns so I'd agree.  However if you are high on Towns and not that high on Brown, I think it is an easy trade to make.
I like Brown a lot, but Towns was one of the 15 best players in the NBA last year (by most metrics including his 3rd Team All NBA) in just his 3rd year in the league, where he had one of the best and most efficient overall shooting season for a big man ever (and was pretty darn good historically for all players).  I think that is about the best you can expect from Brown if he even reaches his peak (that is pretty much where Pierce was most of his career, which seems to be Brown's best case).  Brown is also much more repetitive on the Celtics than Towns is.  The C's have Hayward, Tatum, and Smart all locked in for at least 3 seasons.  There is a much greater need for a big man than a wing. 

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #100 on: August 29, 2018, 09:24:00 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Rather than starting a new post, I thought I'd share this here (hopefully it hasn't been shared elsewhere.

Woj knows stuff. He's plugged in. This is further proof that this was a summer narrative to get clicks, but had no basis in the real NBA world.

https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2018/08/27/adrian-wojnarowski-boston-celtics-over-field-kyrie-irving/

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #101 on: August 29, 2018, 12:44:58 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Rather than starting a new post, I thought I'd share this here (hopefully it hasn't been shared elsewhere.

Woj knows stuff. He's plugged in. This is further proof that this was a summer narrative to get clicks, but had no basis in the real NBA world.

https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2018/08/27/adrian-wojnarowski-boston-celtics-over-field-kyrie-irving/

The only scenario that really scares me is if durant, irving and butler all decided to go to new york. Otherwise i see him staying here. i don't think he wants his only championship to be with Lebron and, unless a 3 star superteam forms, we are his best chance at doing so.

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #102 on: August 29, 2018, 01:47:36 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Rather than starting a new post, I thought I'd share this here (hopefully it hasn't been shared elsewhere.

Woj knows stuff. He's plugged in. This is further proof that this was a summer narrative to get clicks, but had no basis in the real NBA world.

https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2018/08/27/adrian-wojnarowski-boston-celtics-over-field-kyrie-irving/

The only scenario that really scares me is if durant, irving and butler all decided to go to new york. Otherwise i see him staying here. i don't think he wants his only championship to be with Lebron and, unless a 3 star superteam forms, we are his best chance at doing so.

Good thing is that the Knicks cannot possibly clear enough space for 3 max contracts, especially if they stretch Noah as has been reported is possible.

The Nets are a different story. If they traded Crabbe and Harris, they'd have pretty close to enough space. Crabbe and Harris are much more tradeable players than Noah, Lee, Hardaway Jr., and Baker.

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #103 on: August 29, 2018, 02:15:32 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Rather than starting a new post, I thought I'd share this here (hopefully it hasn't been shared elsewhere.

Woj knows stuff. He's plugged in. This is further proof that this was a summer narrative to get clicks, but had no basis in the real NBA world.

https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2018/08/27/adrian-wojnarowski-boston-celtics-over-field-kyrie-irving/

The only scenario that really scares me is if durant, irving and butler all decided to go to new york. Otherwise i see him staying here. i don't think he wants his only championship to be with Lebron and, unless a 3 star superteam forms, we are his best chance at doing so.

Good thing is that the Knicks cannot possibly clear enough space for 3 max contracts, especially if they stretch Noah as has been reported is possible.

The Nets are a different story. If they traded Crabbe and Harris, they'd have pretty close to enough space. Crabbe and Harris are much more tradeable players than Noah, Lee, Hardaway Jr., and Baker.
clay said New York, he didn't say the Knicks.  Last time I checked Brooklyn was in New York.

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #104 on: August 29, 2018, 03:22:10 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Rather than starting a new post, I thought I'd share this here (hopefully it hasn't been shared elsewhere.

Woj knows stuff. He's plugged in. This is further proof that this was a summer narrative to get clicks, but had no basis in the real NBA world.

https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2018/08/27/adrian-wojnarowski-boston-celtics-over-field-kyrie-irving/

The only scenario that really scares me is if durant, irving and butler all decided to go to new york. Otherwise i see him staying here. i don't think he wants his only championship to be with Lebron and, unless a 3 star superteam forms, we are his best chance at doing so.

Good thing is that the Knicks cannot possibly clear enough space for 3 max contracts, especially if they stretch Noah as has been reported is possible.

The Nets are a different story. If they traded Crabbe and Harris, they'd have pretty close to enough space. Crabbe and Harris are much more tradeable players than Noah, Lee, Hardaway Jr., and Baker.
clay said New York, he didn't say the Knicks.  Last time I checked Brooklyn was in New York.

I was thinking of Brooklyn or the Knicks to be honest. I think it would be pretty interesting and probably good for basketball to have Brooklyn immediately vault into relevancy after a half decade of complete irrelevance (although obviously i don't want that happening at the expense of us losing kyrie