Author Topic: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"  (Read 5500 times)

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Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #45 on: August 16, 2018, 08:08:24 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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Not sure if anyone mentioned this already, but ESPN has a "summer forecast" piece out today that asks various analysts where Irving, Butler, and Durant will play next season. Amazingly they give a slightly higher probability that Irving is on the Knicks (46.9%) than he is on the Celtics (43.8%).

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24381454/nba-2019-free-agent-predictions-espn-summer-forecast-knicks-celtics-timberwolves

Many predicted that LeBron was on his way to the Lakers back in October 2017 and they were correct.

These rumors and chatters are some things to look out for.

That’s all well and good, but, assuming they’re not letting Porzingis walk, the Knicks don’t even have the cap space for one max player, much less the two required by this “rumor”.  It will take a lot of cap gymnastics to get there, and require probably 2 1st round picks.  When the LeBron chatter happened, it was far easier to see, because they’d already cleared room for his salary, and there was a reasonable path for them to make room for an additional max player if necessary.  The Knicks are not in the same situation.

Saltlover -- thank-you.

It becomes even more tricky if they end up stretching Noah. Some of the situations I've run were based on the idea they could trade his contract, which is looking more and more impossible. If they stretch him, it adds about 7 million to their books, requiring that they trade Lee, Hardaway, Baker, and Knox (or Frankie) to even get close to two max slots.

And they'd be teaming up with a 7'3'' big man with leg problems. And they wouldn't have other significant players under contract.

It's a pipedream narrative driven by media in a slow off-season.

I think the Knicks decision about Noah will show whether they truly believe they can get top free agents next off-season. If they waive him, it probably shows they think they can only get one high level guy financially, which probably means they don't think they can get a superstar (Butler or Irving) because those superstars would want to play with another guy.

If they keep Noah, it might mean they think they could trade him instead of waiving him, which means they continue to hold out hope for two max-level slots.

If his goal is to get to NYC, why are we sure he’d be headed for the Knicks? Next year it looks like the Nets have about $43 million on their books (I’m assuming Crabbe picks up his option). It’s true, the Nets are bad, but so are the Knicks!


Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #46 on: August 16, 2018, 08:33:12 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Not sure if anyone mentioned this already, but ESPN has a "summer forecast" piece out today that asks various analysts where Irving, Butler, and Durant will play next season. Amazingly they give a slightly higher probability that Irving is on the Knicks (46.9%) than he is on the Celtics (43.8%).

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24381454/nba-2019-free-agent-predictions-espn-summer-forecast-knicks-celtics-timberwolves

Many predicted that LeBron was on his way to the Lakers back in October 2017 and they were correct.

These rumors and chatters are some things to look out for.

That’s all well and good, but, assuming they’re not letting Porzingis walk, the Knicks don’t even have the cap space for one max player, much less the two required by this “rumor”.  It will take a lot of cap gymnastics to get there, and require probably 2 1st round picks.  When the LeBron chatter happened, it was far easier to see, because they’d already cleared room for his salary, and there was a reasonable path for them to make room for an additional max player if necessary.  The Knicks are not in the same situation.

Saltlover -- thank-you.

It becomes even more tricky if they end up stretching Noah. Some of the situations I've run were based on the idea they could trade his contract, which is looking more and more impossible. If they stretch him, it adds about 7 million to their books, requiring that they trade Lee, Hardaway, Baker, and Knox (or Frankie) to even get close to two max slots.

And they'd be teaming up with a 7'3'' big man with leg problems. And they wouldn't have other significant players under contract.

It's a pipedream narrative driven by media in a slow off-season.

I think the Knicks decision about Noah will show whether they truly believe they can get top free agents next off-season. If they waive him, it probably shows they think they can only get one high level guy financially, which probably means they don't think they can get a superstar (Butler or Irving) because those superstars would want to play with another guy.

If they keep Noah, it might mean they think they could trade him instead of waiving him, which means they continue to hold out hope for two max-level slots.

If his goal is to get to NYC, why are we sure he’d be headed for the Knicks? Next year it looks like the Nets have about $43 million on their books (I’m assuming Crabbe picks up his option). It’s true, the Nets are bad, but so are the Knicks!

Only because in the aforementioned ESPN article, 15 of 32 “experts” said the Knicks while 1 of 32 said the Nets.  1 “expert” also thinks Kyrie is going to team up with LeBron in LA, so...
“When an alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.”

Leviticus 19:33-34

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #47 on: August 16, 2018, 08:39:34 AM »

Offline Chris22

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Irving and Butler?

Who is going to defend?

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #48 on: August 16, 2018, 08:49:00 AM »

Offline freshinthehouse

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Irving and Butler?

Who is going to defend?

Butler is terrific on defense.

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #49 on: August 16, 2018, 08:50:51 AM »

Offline mef730

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Honestly where there's this much smoke there's fire.  ESPN posted a video a while back with former NBA player Jaylen Brown confirming these rumors and he's generally pretty tied into the NBA circles. 

I'm not going to rehash Kyrie's history of jumping ship on a championship team, but let's not pretend that he'd be unwilling to abandon a team due to how "good" the team was.

Most importantly if we want to keep Jaylen Brown and Tatum on the roster we need to open up some cap room, either Al horford or Kyrie is the most likely candidate to be ousted since the Celtics inexplicably tied up 11 million a year in Marcus Smart.
Huh...

I'm guessing he meant Jalen Rose. If not, then we have a far more interesting story than Butler/Irving on our hands.

BTW, here is a link I found with the Knicks salary situation. I'm assuming that it is up to date.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/NYK.html

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Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #50 on: August 16, 2018, 11:16:54 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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Honestly where there's this much smoke there's fire.  ESPN posted a video a while back with former NBA player Jaylen Brown confirming these rumors and he's generally pretty tied into the NBA circles. 

I'm not going to rehash Kyrie's history of jumping ship on a championship team, but let's not pretend that he'd be unwilling to abandon a team due to how "good" the team was.

Most importantly if we want to keep Jaylen Brown and Tatum on the roster we need to open up some cap room, either Al horford or Kyrie is the most likely candidate to be ousted since the Celtics inexplicably tied up 11 million a year in Marcus Smart.

Errrr, what? They will be re-signed with bird rights, no cap room required. And if they did need cap room, getting rid of Irving wouldn't get us anywhere near low enough salary-wise.

If you mean more in a tax way (as in the team won't pay the tax to re-sign Tatum/Brown unless we greatly reduce salary by getting rid of our best player or best big), then I completely disagree. If you want to win championships, then you don't let a top player in the league go because you don't want to pay the tax
I'm bitter.

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #51 on: August 16, 2018, 11:27:07 AM »

Offline JHTruth

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If there was anything that would lead me to believe Kyrie might leave its the fact that he really hasn't tried to connect with Boston at all since he's been traded. Hayward and Horford and their wives are always giving updates to Celtic fans on their injuries and what not, cheering for the team on Twitter. Hayward got on the mic and told all the fans he plans on being back stronger than ever.

One could imagine them being completely happy playing out their careers here. Because they chose Boston. Kyrie is still pretty distant. He talks about he would love to play with Porzingis. Even Maxwell said on Kaufman's podcast Kyrie is pretty standoffish to him, isn't real chatty. He decides to get surgery on the day of Game 7.

You never see Kyrie just expressing how much he likes the team unprompted. Some of that may just be his personality but if you wanted to be with a team long-term and wanted them to pay you over $100mm wouldn't you weave yourself into the fabric of the franchise a bit more? His twitter really has no C's branding on it at all. He's never in the media talking about the team.

It's just really strange..
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 11:43:49 AM by JHTruth »

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #52 on: August 16, 2018, 12:55:36 PM »

Offline RJ87

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If there was anything that would lead me to believe Kyrie might leave its the fact that he really hasn't tried to connect with Boston at all since he's been traded. Hayward and Horford and their wives are always giving updates to Celtic fans on their injuries and what not, cheering for the team on Twitter. Hayward got on the mic and told all the fans he plans on being back stronger than ever.

One could imagine them being completely happy playing out their careers here. Because they chose Boston. Kyrie is still pretty distant. He talks about he would love to play with Porzingis. Even Maxwell said on Kaufman's podcast Kyrie is pretty standoffish to him, isn't real chatty. He decides to get surgery on the day of Game 7.

You never see Kyrie just expressing how much he likes the team unprompted. Some of that may just be his personality but if you wanted to be with a team long-term and wanted them to pay you over $100mm wouldn't you weave yourself into the fabric of the franchise a bit more? His twitter really has no C's branding on it at all. He's never in the media talking about the team.

It's just really strange..

Except he has. He's talked about how much he enjoys his teammates and Brad Stevens. But clearly, no one pays attention that stuff. Listen to him on the Bill Simmons podcast.
Danny Ainge got fleeced.

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #53 on: August 16, 2018, 01:13:53 PM »

Offline bknova

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I gotta say, no sport, absolutely no other sport, does a better job of engaging the narrative during the offseason. 

Soap Opera nonsense.

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #54 on: August 16, 2018, 01:40:42 PM »

Online bdm860

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If there was anything that would lead me to believe Kyrie might leave its the fact that he really hasn't tried to connect with Boston at all since he's been traded. Hayward and Horford and their wives are always giving updates to Celtic fans on their injuries and what not, cheering for the team on Twitter. Hayward got on the mic and told all the fans he plans on being back stronger than ever.

One could imagine them being completely happy playing out their careers here. Because they chose Boston. Kyrie is still pretty distant. He talks about he would love to play with Porzingis. Even Maxwell said on Kaufman's podcast Kyrie is pretty standoffish to him, isn't real chatty. He decides to get surgery on the day of Game 7.

You never see Kyrie just expressing how much he likes the team unprompted. Some of that may just be his personality but if you wanted to be with a team long-term and wanted them to pay you over $100mm wouldn't you weave yourself into the fabric of the franchise a bit more? His twitter really has no C's branding on it at all. He's never in the media talking about the team.

It's just really strange..

Except he has. He's talked about how much he enjoys his teammates and Brad Stevens. But clearly, no one pays attention that stuff. Listen to him on the Bill Simmons podcast.

He's definitely embraced his teammates.  He was on the bench for several games during the playoffs (more than Hayward), having fun when his teammates do well.



We know he's talking with teammates during the offseason.

He's hosting local camps with teammates during the offseason.

Seems to be embracing the team and the city to me.

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Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #55 on: August 16, 2018, 01:55:59 PM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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If there was anything that would lead me to believe Kyrie might leave its the fact that he really hasn't tried to connect with Boston at all since he's been traded. Hayward and Horford and their wives are always giving updates to Celtic fans on their injuries and what not, cheering for the team on Twitter. Hayward got on the mic and told all the fans he plans on being back stronger than ever.

One could imagine them being completely happy playing out their careers here. Because they chose Boston. Kyrie is still pretty distant. He talks about he would love to play with Porzingis. Even Maxwell said on Kaufman's podcast Kyrie is pretty standoffish to him, isn't real chatty. He decides to get surgery on the day of Game 7.

You never see Kyrie just expressing how much he likes the team unprompted. Some of that may just be his personality but if you wanted to be with a team long-term and wanted them to pay you over $100mm wouldn't you weave yourself into the fabric of the franchise a bit more? His twitter really has no C's branding on it at all. He's never in the media talking about the team.

It's just really strange..

Except he has. He's talked about how much he enjoys his teammates and Brad Stevens. But clearly, no one pays attention that stuff. Listen to him on the Bill Simmons podcast.

He's definitely embraced his teammates.  He was on the bench for several games during the playoffs (more than Hayward), having fun when his teammates do well.



We know he's talking with teammates during the offseason.

He's hosting local camps with teammates during the offseason.

Seems to be embracing the team and the city to me.
Making the Finals and Knowing you will win a few changes everything, too. I am not worried in the least.
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Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #56 on: August 16, 2018, 02:05:44 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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If Kyrie is dumb enough to leave an organization like the Celtics on the brink of a long run of success for a team that hasn't been relevant in 15 years then let him go. He wanted his own team...he got much more than he anticipated, he got a team on the brink of major success and a team that could make him into an NBA legend after he retires someday. If he's shallow enough to not want to see his number possibly hanging from the rafters of the Boston Garden then "bye bye."

With the coming emergence of Tatum and Brown and the return of Hayward, the Celtic would need to find a PG that can facilitate well, defend well and score enough. Who knows, maybe he's already on the team. We don't have to have a Kyrie Irving to take 20+ shots a game for this team to go where it's hopefully headed.

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #57 on: August 16, 2018, 02:48:32 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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I've heard Irving say in an interview (may have been with Simmons) that he's very much in favor of stars playing with their friends if it can be worked out and he kind of left the door open to himself doing that at some point.

While I agree that you don't deal someone based on the idea that he MAY not re-sign - I do think Danny is keeping his options open.  For example if Rozier has a big season - maybe you commit to him and deploy the extra 'Kyrie' money somewhere else.

Or if someone else becomes available who might slot into the existing team, maybe Danny considers it - where he wouldn't have before.

I do believe in the 'where there's smoke there's fire' thing so it wouldn't surprise me at all if Irving wants to go off and team up with Butler.  However he should also realize that Danny would trade his sister if he thought the team would benefit from it, so maybe if he does want to stay he should be saying that to management - at least in private.

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #58 on: August 16, 2018, 03:08:55 PM »

Online Moranis

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Gauging interest, what about a trade to the Wolves. 

Irving and Brown and for Teague and Towns. That I think would be an interesting trade for both teams.  Boston gets a decent replacement for Irving in Teague and gets the big man the team is missing in Towns.  The Wolves then get to build around Irving and Butler, with Brown as a potential 3rd, which also allows them to move on from Wiggins.  Obviously the Wolves only do that if they have some sort of assurance from both Irving and Butler, but I do think that would be an interesting trade for both teams. 

Edit: I do realize Minny needs to dump salary to get below the tax line, which would require a 3rd team (like say the Kings).

Re: Butler/Irving Chatter is "Substantial"
« Reply #59 on: August 16, 2018, 03:10:40 PM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

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Gauging interest, what about a trade to the Wolves. 

Irving and Brown and for Teague and Towns.  That I think would be an interesting trade for both teams.  Boston gets a decent replacement for Irving in Teague and gets the big man the team is missing in Towns.  The Wolves then get to build around Irving and Butler, with Brown as a potential 3rd, which also allows them to move on from Wiggins.  Obviously the Wolves only do that if they have some sort of assurance from both Irving and Butler, but I do think that would be an interesting trade for both teams.

You could argue Minny gets the best two players in that trade.