Author Topic: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial  (Read 2930 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #75 on: August 10, 2018, 12:06:56 AM »

Offline Beat LA

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8318
  • Tommy Points: 890
  • Mr. Emoji
Didn't W and/or Daddio make some ridiculous remark about grocery stores after having never done so in his/their life/lives? Can't exactly remember anything else other than the fact that it was absurdly hilarious.

When running for re-election in 92 there was a mini-"scandal" about Bush supposedly being amazed by supermarket scanners, which had been in heavy use for quite a while at that point. It was represented as Bush being out of touch and not familiar with stuff that was routine for everyday Americans. But both the story and its impact were probably exaggerated.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bush-scanner-demonstration/

Thanks :).

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #76 on: August 10, 2018, 12:20:11 AM »

Offline blink

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6471
  • Tommy Points: 383
Nick, Manafort is innocent until proven guilty, I think that's how it is supposed to work.

I agree with you that politics should have nothing to do with it.  That should apply to Mueller's team, especially.
Why should it apply to Mueller's team especially? What in this trial have they brought forward that suggests Mueller's team is playing politics? They have brought forward evidence, hard evidence against Manafort. Review that evidence. He committed tax fraud.
It really doesn't matter what I think.  Its up to the Jury.  From the bits and pieces I have digested, the judge, jury and defense counsel are not really impressed with the evidence presented, so far.  We will see what happens.

There is plenty of evidence that the Mueller team has a very serious political bias.

Is this the twilight zone?

Youíre aware that Mueller is a life long Republican, right?


Fun fact - Nixon's special prosecutor was a Dem and Clinton's independent counsel a Republican. The logic was that being investigated by a member of the opposite party would ensure the investigation was thorough and, if they were cleared, the decision wouldn't be considered driven by partisan corruption.

Trump gets investigated by a member of his own party at a time of greater partisan polarization, and the shrieking about "bias" is far louder anyway. As if there was any scenario where it wouldn't be.



Didn't W and/or Daddio make some ridiculous remark about grocery stores after having never done so in his/their life/lives? Can't exactly remember anything else other than the fact that it was absurdly hilarious.

When running for re-election in 92 there was a mini-"scandal" about Bush supposedly being amazed by supermarket scanners, which had been in heavy use for quite a while at that point. It was represented as Bush being out of touch and not familiar with stuff that was routine for everyday Americans. But both the story and its impact were probably exaggerated.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bush-scanner-demonstration/

this is worth a TP just for the good memory!

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #77 on: August 10, 2018, 07:08:09 AM »

Offline Surferdad

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9237
  • Tommy Points: 586
  • "He fiddles...and diddles..."
Nick, Manafort is innocent until proven guilty, I think that's how it is supposed to work.

I agree with you that politics should have nothing to do with it.  That should apply to Mueller's team, especially.
Why should it apply to Mueller's team especially? What in this trial have they brought forward that suggests Mueller's team is playing politics? They have brought forward evidence, hard evidence against Manafort. Review that evidence. He committed tax fraud.
It really doesn't matter what I think.  Its up to the Jury.  From the bits and pieces I have digested, the judge, jury and defense counsel are not really impressed with the evidence presented, so far.  We will see what happens.

There is plenty of evidence that the Mueller team has a very serious political bias.
The notion that Mueller is politically biased is unlikely.  If you want to understand the high level of integrity this man has, take 10 minutes out of your your life to watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCVDEEMZQec

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #78 on: August 10, 2018, 07:22:46 AM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 35599
  • Tommy Points: -27753
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Nick, Manafort is innocent until proven guilty, I think that's how it is supposed to work.

I agree with you that politics should have nothing to do with it.  That should apply to Mueller's team, especially.
Why should it apply to Mueller's team especially? What in this trial have they brought forward that suggests Mueller's team is playing politics? They have brought forward evidence, hard evidence against Manafort. Review that evidence. He committed tax fraud.
It really doesn't matter what I think.  Its up to the Jury.  From the bits and pieces I have digested, the judge, jury and defense counsel are not really impressed with the evidence presented, so far.  We will see what happens.

There is plenty of evidence that the Mueller team has a very serious political bias.
The notion that Mueller is politically biased is unlikely.  If you want to understand the high level of integrity this man has, take 10 minutes out of your your life to watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCVDEEMZQec

I think itís unlikely heís motivated by politics, but Iím not sure I trust any extremely powerful person to have high integrity.  Didnít we hear the exact same thing about Comey?


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #79 on: August 10, 2018, 07:39:52 AM »

Offline Cman

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12540
  • Tommy Points: 23
Maybe convicting Manafort is not a slam dunk after all.  Judge Ellis is schooling Mueller's all stars.

https://steadfastandloyal.com/unreal/did-muellers-star-witness-commit-perjury-on-the-stand/

It would be really unfortunate if Muellerís team cant win this case. Pretty clear from the evidence that Manafort committed tax and bank fraud.

I really hope people arenít rooting for this criminal simply because he worked for Trump.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #80 on: August 10, 2018, 09:40:51 AM »

Offline Jon

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6481
  • Tommy Points: 382
I don't think that Manafort's guilt in this trial means that Trump is guilty of anything other than what we already knew.  He claimed he would drain the swamp, but he brought in more swampy associates that we have ever seen before.

Even though Manafort's guilt in this trial doesn't make Trump guilty of anything, it is true that Trump has a long history with Manafort.  Even though Trump tries to somehow minimize his role in the campaign, Trump has known Manafort since the 80's.  Manafort and Roger Stone have a long history as well.  Trump is lying when he implies that he doesn't have a long connection to Manafort.

All of the most interesting questions about Manafort aren't addressed in this trial.  1.  Why did Manafort work for free for Trump?  2.  Why did Manafort lie about Trump Campaign contacts with Russia?   3.  What role did Manafort play in the change in the republican platform at the 2016 RNC?  4.  How do Manafort's Russia connections intertwine with Russia interference in the 2016 election? 

Even though he is going to be in jail for the rest of his life (barring a presidential pardon), the bigger questions remain about his involvement in the Russia scandal.

This is all true, and also leads us to the biggest bit of Orwellian Doublethink that Trump is trying pullover on his followers:

Trump is here to save America from the perils of socialism...by getting into bed with a former KGB operative turned dictator trying to resurrect the Soviet Union.

Of course most of Trumpís base is too oblivious to realize things like Medicare and Social Security are socialist policies and countries like Denmark and Sweden where they have universal health care and free college have the highest quality of life and happiness in the world, but, letís by all means, prevent ourselves from becoming like the USSR was by becoming buddies with the one man in the world trying to bring it back.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 10:59:59 AM by Jon »

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #81 on: August 10, 2018, 10:06:23 AM »

Offline chicagoceltic

  • Gordon Hayward
  • Posts: 635
  • Tommy Points: 85
Maybe convicting Manafort is not a slam dunk after all.  Judge Ellis is schooling Mueller's all stars.

https://steadfastandloyal.com/unreal/did-muellers-star-witness-commit-perjury-on-the-stand/

It would be really unfortunate if Muellerís team cant win this case. Pretty clear from the evidence that Manafort committed tax and bank fraud.

I really hope people arenít rooting for this criminal simply because he worked for Trump.
Unfortunately I think this is exactly where we are at. 
Pub Draft

Sam N Ella's

At the Bar: The Most Interesting Man in the World
At the Door:  Hugh Hefner
On Stage:  O.A.R., Louis C.K., EDGAR! Special Drinks:  Irish Car Bomb, Martinis On Tap: Lite, Beamish, 3 Floyds Seasonal, Chimay Grand Reserve, Spotted Cow

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #82 on: August 10, 2018, 10:14:05 AM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 35599
  • Tommy Points: -27753
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Maybe convicting Manafort is not a slam dunk after all.  Judge Ellis is schooling Mueller's all stars.

https://steadfastandloyal.com/unreal/did-muellers-star-witness-commit-perjury-on-the-stand/

It would be really unfortunate if Muellerís team cant win this case. Pretty clear from the evidence that Manafort committed tax and bank fraud.

I suspect the jury will be able to look past the extremely slimy Gates based upon other evidence.  If Gates was all the prosecution had they might be in trouble, but I've got to imagine that the government has more to offer than a con man criminal who has admitted to lying to investigators.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #83 on: August 10, 2018, 10:19:53 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 41717
  • Tommy Points: 2359
  • You ain't the boss of the freakin' bedclothes.
Maybe convicting Manafort is not a slam dunk after all.  Judge Ellis is schooling Mueller's all stars.

https://steadfastandloyal.com/unreal/did-muellers-star-witness-commit-perjury-on-the-stand/

It would be really unfortunate if Muellerís team cant win this case. Pretty clear from the evidence that Manafort committed tax and bank fraud.

I really hope people arenít rooting for this criminal simply because he worked for Trump.
Unfortunately I think this is exactly where we are at. 

We are a hair's width away from buying jerseys and having elections every 6 months in football stadiums with full tailgating activities. The GOP and DNC will be like the GMs, and we'll get breaking news from Woj where hes saying, 'Unnamed sources say Tom Perez isn't willing to give new free agent Marco Rubio a clear path to the presidential nomination, would rather keep him as a Senator for 4 years and try extending after year 2. Rubio's camp is investigating options in Europe and China but will likely be headed back to Florida'.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #84 on: August 10, 2018, 10:21:43 AM »

Offline nickagneta

  • Global Moderator
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33166
  • Tommy Points: 5417
Maybe convicting Manafort is not a slam dunk after all.  Judge Ellis is schooling Mueller's all stars.

https://steadfastandloyal.com/unreal/did-muellers-star-witness-commit-perjury-on-the-stand/

It would be really unfortunate if Muellerís team cant win this case. Pretty clear from the evidence that Manafort committed tax and bank fraud.

I really hope people arenít rooting for this criminal simply because he worked for Trump.
Unfortunately I think this is exactly where we are at.
I brought the subject up earlier. This trial is about tax fraud, cheating our government out of possibly millions in taxes. The evidence is [dang]ing. Manaforts only hope is through a technical mistake, in my opinion.

All Americans should be hoping this guy gets convicted and serve his time in jail. This should not be partisan at this point given what we have seen coming from this trial. Sadly, people will make this about partisan politics.

Another thing that convinces me he is guilty is he possibly tampered with witnesses. I am not sure that can be brought up at this trial but, but we who are not jurors can take those actions into cconsideration. Innocent people don't tamper with witnesses.

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #85 on: August 10, 2018, 12:43:06 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4058
  • Tommy Points: 330
Maybe convicting Manafort is not a slam dunk after all.  Judge Ellis is schooling Mueller's all stars.

https://steadfastandloyal.com/unreal/did-muellers-star-witness-commit-perjury-on-the-stand/


Seems this judge has some issues.....

Quote
Judge T.S. Ellis said he was ďprobably wrongĒ for criticizing prosecutors over one of their witnesses, IRS revenue agent Michael Welch, being in the courtroom observing the trial leading up to his testimony, according to CNN.

On Wednesday, Ellis reportedly scolded prosecutors in front of jurors over Welchís presence in the courtroom, saying he doesnít allow witnesses to watch trials. But prosecutors said they had previously received Ellisís approval to have Welch in the courtroom, something transcripts confirmed, according to Politico.

ďPut aside any criticism. I was probably wrong in that," Ellis said

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #86 on: August 10, 2018, 01:52:56 PM »

Offline Beat LA

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8318
  • Tommy Points: 890
  • Mr. Emoji
Maybe convicting Manafort is not a slam dunk after all.  Judge Ellis is schooling Mueller's all stars.

https://steadfastandloyal.com/unreal/did-muellers-star-witness-commit-perjury-on-the-stand/

It would be really unfortunate if Mueller’s team cant win this case. Pretty clear from the evidence that Manafort committed tax and bank fraud.

I really hope people aren’t rooting for this criminal simply because he worked for Trump.
Unfortunately I think this is exactly where we are at.

We are a hair's width away from buying jerseys and having elections every 6 months in football stadiums with full tailgating activities. The GOP and DNC will be like the GMs, and we'll get breaking news from Woj where hes saying, 'Unnamed sources say Tom Perez isn't willing to give new free agent Marco Rubio a clear path to the presidential nomination, would rather keep him as a Senator for 4 years and try extending after year 2. Rubio's camp is investigating options in Europe and China but will likely be headed back to Florida'.

If voting ever resembles football games, like in any form, I will never cast a ballot, again, LOL ;D.

Sidebar: those jerseys had better be made in America ;) ::) ;D.

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #87 on: August 10, 2018, 01:54:52 PM »

Offline Beat LA

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8318
  • Tommy Points: 890
  • Mr. Emoji
Maybe convicting Manafort is not a slam dunk after all.  Judge Ellis is schooling Mueller's all stars.

https://steadfastandloyal.com/unreal/did-muellers-star-witness-commit-perjury-on-the-stand/


Seems this judge has some issues.....

Quote
Judge T.S. Ellis said he was “probably wrong” for criticizing prosecutors over one of their witnesses, IRS revenue agent Michael Welch, being in the courtroom observing the trial leading up to his testimony, according to CNN.

On Wednesday, Ellis reportedly scolded prosecutors in front of jurors over Welch’s presence in the courtroom, saying he doesn’t allow witnesses to watch trials. But prosecutors said they had previously received Ellis’s approval to have Welch in the courtroom, something transcripts confirmed, according to Politico.

“Put aside any criticism. I was probably wrong in that," Ellis said

Is this the same judge as to who almost turns his courtroom proceedings into the legal equivalent of speed dating?

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #88 on: August 10, 2018, 02:25:23 PM »

Offline mef730

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3112
  • Tommy Points: 548
From what I have read from the descriptions of the trial, I don't see any way in which Manafort isn't convicted.  The defense strategy of making Gates the big baddie just doesn't work.  The defense seems to be - - - > look at that guy he is bad, don't look at our client.  I guess that is what happens when you are desperate and don't really have other options.

There have been multiple witnesses that corroborate Gates version of events and then the massive paper trail that can't even be questioned.

Then he goes onto the 2nd trial...not looking good for him.

The questions I still have are:

1) Why didn't Manafort try and get a plea deal?  his lawyers had to have known how strong the case against him was.  maybe they tried and weren't able to get it done?  Was Manafort one of the prime targets of Mueller's probe?

I'm guessing that he is counting on a presidential pardon.

Nick, Manafort is innocent until proven guilty, I think that's how it is supposed to work.

I agree with you that politics should have nothing to do with it.  That should apply to Mueller's team, especially.
Why should it apply to Mueller's team especially? What in this trial have they brought forward that suggests Mueller's team is playing politics? They have brought forward evidence, hard evidence against Manafort. Review that evidence. He committed tax fraud.
It really doesn't matter what I think.  Its up to the Jury.  From the bits and pieces I have digested, the judge, jury and defense counsel are not really impressed with the evidence presented, so far.  We will see what happens.

There is plenty of evidence that the Mueller team has a very serious political bias.

Can you give me a link to any story saying that the jury wasn't impressed with the evidence?  Because I don't think that exists and I don't think they are allowed to say anything about the trial until it is complete...

Plus the judge admits that he was wrong in some of his comments about the prosecution
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/09/politics/paul-manafort-trial-day-eight/index.html

I don't see how anyone can follow this trial closely and say that Manafort is not-guilty.  That just isn't supported by the evidence.
Manaforts guilt implies trumps guilt. Got to protect the head cheese.
I don't agree with that. Manafort was doing this stuff before his association with Trump. All Manaforts guilt has to do with Trump is it shows Trump is a poor judge of character.

Or you were telling a joke and I didn't get it.😁

We can make it into a joke. For example, "head cheese" referring to the orangeness of his head?

Mike
Want to learn about frequent flyer miles and flying well for free? Check out my blog here: http://frequentflyermiles101.com/

Actually, check it out even if you don't want to. It'll make me feel good.

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #89 on: August 10, 2018, 02:57:33 PM »

Offline Beat LA

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8318
  • Tommy Points: 890
  • Mr. Emoji
From what I have read from the descriptions of the trial, I don't see any way in which Manafort isn't convicted.  The defense strategy of making Gates the big baddie just doesn't work.  The defense seems to be - - - > look at that guy he is bad, don't look at our client.  I guess that is what happens when you are desperate and don't really have other options.

There have been multiple witnesses that corroborate Gates version of events and then the massive paper trail that can't even be questioned.

Then he goes onto the 2nd trial...not looking good for him.

The questions I still have are:

1) Why didn't Manafort try and get a plea deal?  his lawyers had to have known how strong the case against him was.  maybe they tried and weren't able to get it done?  Was Manafort one of the prime targets of Mueller's probe?

I'm guessing that he is counting on a presidential pardon.

Nick, Manafort is innocent until proven guilty, I think that's how it is supposed to work.

I agree with you that politics should have nothing to do with it.  That should apply to Mueller's team, especially.
Why should it apply to Mueller's team especially? What in this trial have they brought forward that suggests Mueller's team is playing politics? They have brought forward evidence, hard evidence against Manafort. Review that evidence. He committed tax fraud.
It really doesn't matter what I think.  Its up to the Jury.  From the bits and pieces I have digested, the judge, jury and defense counsel are not really impressed with the evidence presented, so far.  We will see what happens.

There is plenty of evidence that the Mueller team has a very serious political bias.

Can you give me a link to any story saying that the jury wasn't impressed with the evidence?  Because I don't think that exists and I don't think they are allowed to say anything about the trial until it is complete...

Plus the judge admits that he was wrong in some of his comments about the prosecution
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/09/politics/paul-manafort-trial-day-eight/index.html

I don't see how anyone can follow this trial closely and say that Manafort is not-guilty.  That just isn't supported by the evidence.
Manaforts guilt implies trumps guilt. Got to protect the head cheese.
I don't agree with that. Manafort was doing this stuff before his association with Trump. All Manaforts guilt has to do with Trump is it shows Trump is a poor judge of character.

Or you were telling a joke and I didn't get it.

We can make it into a joke. For example, "head cheese" referring to the orangeness of his head?

Mike

Wait, I can't remember - did Trump win Wisconsin? ;) ;D

Edit: yep, lol ;D.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 03:08:28 PM by Beat LA »