Author Topic: 2019 Celtics - Best team ever?  (Read 9501 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: 2019 Celtics - Best team ever?
« Reply #45 on: August 03, 2018, 07:46:42 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9671
  • Tommy Points: 325
I dont know about best team ever but we may be the best team in the NBA this year! I know, GS has won it 3 of the last four and almost looks unbeatable in a series. The thing is though, I really feel like Jaylen Brown is going to have a breakout season and Tatum is going to show the entire league who the best player on the Celtics really is.

If Hayward can regain form, and he will, this team can beat anyone.

Houston almost beat GS last season, and maybe would've if Paul hadn't been injured. And this Boston team has more weapons, and plays better D, than Houston.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

— C.S. Lewis

Re: 2019 Celtics - Best team ever?
« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2018, 08:24:06 AM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8497
  • Tommy Points: 975
I can't decide if I was more excited heading into the '07-'08 season, or now heading into the '18-'19 season!

I want to say now, but that might just be more recency bias.

Yeah this is probably the most excited I’ve gone into a season since 2009-10 (expecting a healthy KG).

But that 2007-08 season had me waking up early for a preseason game in Italy.


If healthy, I believe this starting five is more talented than the starting five that won the championship in 07-08.

Not crazy at all. Rondo wasn't Rondo yet and Perk topped out as a valuable defender of big men and great locker room guy. This year the Celtics are likely going to start 5 guys who will be all stars or borderline all stars.
But Garnett and Pierce were better than anyone on the current team and Allen peaked higher than anyone on the current team has (though Irving is still pointing up and probably peaks higher than Ray did).  So yeah Rondo and Perk might have been the 9th and 10th men if you were picking teams, but the first pick would have been Garnett and the 2nd pick would have been Pierce.  And that matters a great deal more.

Irving was a potential top 5 MVP candidate when he was healthy last year, before the last month or two of the season.  That wasn't ever the case for Pierce in '08. 

Also considering Kyrie is already a champ / top 3 player in a historic finals, All Star Game MVP, is a 5 time All Star at 25, and was a top 2-3 player on an Olympic Gold medal team, I think he has a decent argument to be given the nod over '08 Pierce.  And I love me some Pierce.

EDIT - That said, I don't expect 70 or even 65 wins.  I think 62 would be amazing.

I fully maintain that Pierce in 08 will almost certainly be better than Irving in 19.  Irving is a terrible defender, mediocre passer, poor rebounder, etc.  He is incredible with the ball in his hand and can score at will, but that doesn't make him better than an in prime Paul Pierce.

Irving was a much better defender in Boston and hardly terrible. He's not a poor rebounder when you factor in his position. I mean, sure, he's not going to be a good rebounder when compared to bigs, but he out-rebounded or was on least on par with guys like Klay, Bledsoe, Mitchell, DeRozan, Smith Jr., J. Richardson, etc. So he's not a poor rebounder when considering his position.

Re: 2019 Celtics - Best team ever?
« Reply #47 on: August 04, 2018, 08:51:11 AM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
I can't decide if I was more excited heading into the '07-'08 season, or now heading into the '18-'19 season!

I want to say now, but that might just be more recency bias.

Yeah this is probably the most excited I’ve gone into a season since 2009-10 (expecting a healthy KG).

But that 2007-08 season had me waking up early for a preseason game in Italy.


If healthy, I believe this starting five is more talented than the starting five that won the championship in 07-08.

Not crazy at all. Rondo wasn't Rondo yet and Perk topped out as a valuable defender of big men and great locker room guy. This year the Celtics are likely going to start 5 guys who will be all stars or borderline all stars.
But Garnett and Pierce were better than anyone on the current team and Allen peaked higher than anyone on the current team has (though Irving is still pointing up and probably peaks higher than Ray did).  So yeah Rondo and Perk might have been the 9th and 10th men if you were picking teams, but the first pick would have been Garnett and the 2nd pick would have been Pierce.  And that matters a great deal more.

Irving was a potential top 5 MVP candidate when he was healthy last year, before the last month or two of the season.  That wasn't ever the case for Pierce in '08. 

Also considering Kyrie is already a champ / top 3 player in a historic finals, All Star Game MVP, is a 5 time All Star at 25, and was a top 2-3 player on an Olympic Gold medal team, I think he has a decent argument to be given the nod over '08 Pierce.  And I love me some Pierce.

EDIT - That said, I don't expect 70 or even 65 wins.  I think 62 would be amazing.

I fully maintain that Pierce in 08 will almost certainly be better than Irving in 19.  Irving is a terrible defender, mediocre passer, poor rebounder, etc.  He is incredible with the ball in his hand and can score at will, but that doesn't make him better than an in prime Paul Pierce.

Irving was a much better defender in Boston and hardly terrible. He's not a poor rebounder when you factor in his position. I mean, sure, he's not going to be a good rebounder when compared to bigs, but he out-rebounded or was on least on par with guys like Klay, Bledsoe, Mitchell, DeRozan, Smith Jr., J. Richardson, etc. So he's not a poor rebounder when considering his position.
Enough of that reason and clear-thinking!

But yeah, Kyrie is probably ahead of '08 Pierce for me. Hayward, assuming health and he regains '16-'17 form, would be ahead of Ray for me too.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: 2019 Celtics - Best team ever?
« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2018, 09:28:10 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
I can't decide if I was more excited heading into the '07-'08 season, or now heading into the '18-'19 season!

I want to say now, but that might just be more recency bias.

Yeah this is probably the most excited I’ve gone into a season since 2009-10 (expecting a healthy KG).

But that 2007-08 season had me waking up early for a preseason game in Italy.


If healthy, I believe this starting five is more talented than the starting five that won the championship in 07-08.

Not crazy at all. Rondo wasn't Rondo yet and Perk topped out as a valuable defender of big men and great locker room guy. This year the Celtics are likely going to start 5 guys who will be all stars or borderline all stars.
But Garnett and Pierce were better than anyone on the current team and Allen peaked higher than anyone on the current team has (though Irving is still pointing up and probably peaks higher than Ray did).  So yeah Rondo and Perk might have been the 9th and 10th men if you were picking teams, but the first pick would have been Garnett and the 2nd pick would have been Pierce.  And that matters a great deal more.

Irving was a potential top 5 MVP candidate when he was healthy last year, before the last month or two of the season.  That wasn't ever the case for Pierce in '08. 

Also considering Kyrie is already a champ / top 3 player in a historic finals, All Star Game MVP, is a 5 time All Star at 25, and was a top 2-3 player on an Olympic Gold medal team, I think he has a decent argument to be given the nod over '08 Pierce.  And I love me some Pierce.

EDIT - That said, I don't expect 70 or even 65 wins.  I think 62 would be amazing.

I fully maintain that Pierce in 08 will almost certainly be better than Irving in 19.  Irving is a terrible defender, mediocre passer, poor rebounder, etc.  He is incredible with the ball in his hand and can score at will, but that doesn't make him better than an in prime Paul Pierce.

Irving was a much better defender in Boston and hardly terrible. He's not a poor rebounder when you factor in his position. I mean, sure, he's not going to be a good rebounder when compared to bigs, but he out-rebounded or was on least on par with guys like Klay, Bledsoe, Mitchell, DeRozan, Smith Jr., J. Richardson, etc. So he's not a poor rebounder when considering his position.
Irving was in fact a terrible defender in Boston because he is a terrible defender.  Of the regulars only Semi had a worse DRTG.  He had the same DRTG as Larkin, Bird, and Allen.  Just because Boston was a very good defensive team, doesn't mean Irving was a good defender.  He wasn't.  He was a terrible defender.  Irving's TRB% of 6.4 is poor.  He was tied with Smart and only ahead of Allen and Gibson on the entire team.  Using other bad rebounders and saying he is on par with them, doesn't help that point.  Irving is a bad rebounder.  He isn't terrible like he is defensively, but he most certainly is a poor rebounder.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: 2019 Celtics - Best team ever?
« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2018, 10:02:16 AM »

Offline cman88

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5153
  • Tommy Points: 359
Alot depends on the development of Brown/Tatum as well as how Kyrie/hayward come back.

If tatum/Brown take significant jumps again(which I think they will) those two guys have flashed all-star potential last year...

You will have a team that can rival the warriors and I think match up pretty well.

Re: 2019 Celtics - Best team ever?
« Reply #50 on: August 04, 2018, 10:11:41 AM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
I can't decide if I was more excited heading into the '07-'08 season, or now heading into the '18-'19 season!

I want to say now, but that might just be more recency bias.

Yeah this is probably the most excited I’ve gone into a season since 2009-10 (expecting a healthy KG).

But that 2007-08 season had me waking up early for a preseason game in Italy.


If healthy, I believe this starting five is more talented than the starting five that won the championship in 07-08.

Not crazy at all. Rondo wasn't Rondo yet and Perk topped out as a valuable defender of big men and great locker room guy. This year the Celtics are likely going to start 5 guys who will be all stars or borderline all stars.
But Garnett and Pierce were better than anyone on the current team and Allen peaked higher than anyone on the current team has (though Irving is still pointing up and probably peaks higher than Ray did).  So yeah Rondo and Perk might have been the 9th and 10th men if you were picking teams, but the first pick would have been Garnett and the 2nd pick would have been Pierce.  And that matters a great deal more.

Irving was a potential top 5 MVP candidate when he was healthy last year, before the last month or two of the season.  That wasn't ever the case for Pierce in '08. 

Also considering Kyrie is already a champ / top 3 player in a historic finals, All Star Game MVP, is a 5 time All Star at 25, and was a top 2-3 player on an Olympic Gold medal team, I think he has a decent argument to be given the nod over '08 Pierce.  And I love me some Pierce.

EDIT - That said, I don't expect 70 or even 65 wins.  I think 62 would be amazing.

I fully maintain that Pierce in 08 will almost certainly be better than Irving in 19.  Irving is a terrible defender, mediocre passer, poor rebounder, etc.  He is incredible with the ball in his hand and can score at will, but that doesn't make him better than an in prime Paul Pierce.

Irving was a much better defender in Boston and hardly terrible. He's not a poor rebounder when you factor in his position. I mean, sure, he's not going to be a good rebounder when compared to bigs, but he out-rebounded or was on least on par with guys like Klay, Bledsoe, Mitchell, DeRozan, Smith Jr., J. Richardson, etc. So he's not a poor rebounder when considering his position.
Irving was in fact a terrible defender in Boston because he is a terrible defender.  Of the regulars only Semi had a worse DRTG.  He had the same DRTG as Larkin, Bird, and Allen.  Just because Boston was a very good defensive team, doesn't mean Irving was a good defender.  He wasn't.  He was a terrible defender.  Irving's TRB% of 6.4 is poor.  He was tied with Smart and only ahead of Allen and Gibson on the entire team.  Using other bad rebounders and saying he is on par with them, doesn't help that point.  Irving is a bad rebounder.  He isn't terrible like he is defensively, but he most certainly is a poor rebounder.
Because after all, DRTG is the be all and end all of assessing how good one is at defence. One only has to look at Shane Larkin's superior rating to Marcus Smart, or LaMarcus Aldridge's superior rating to Clint Capela, or James Harden's superior rating to Steven Adams to see the validity of it as the only metric to consider ::)

Also complaining about the rebounding of a PG who still averages around 4 a game is a pretty hilarious thing to be complaining about
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: 2019 Celtics - Best team ever?
« Reply #51 on: August 04, 2018, 12:38:41 PM »

Offline bdm860

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5952
  • Tommy Points: 4586
Alot depends on the development of Brown/Tatum as well as how Kyrie/hayward come back.

If tatum/Brown take significant jumps again(which I think they will) those two guys have flashed all-star potential last year...

You will have a team that can rival the warriors and I think match up pretty well.

I think this is the reason behind so many optimistic outlooks.  After the great playoffs, a lot of us can't help but dream about the growth we'll see next year from Brown and Tatum.

Whether they'll admit it or not, I think a lot of us (including myself) have these subconscious expectations about the level of play we'll see from everybody, but especially Brown/Tatum.

Tatum will turn into Giannis next season, while Brown will turn into Jimmy Butler.  And Hayward and Irving return to their peaks, and Horford stays the same.

Realistic? Reasonable? Probably not.  In the back of my mind as a possibility I can't help fantasizing about?  Absolutely.

But even with minimal growth from Brown and Tatum, I'd still be excited about this upcoming season.

Anything short of the Finals will be a failure.  Anything short of a championship will be a disappointment.  Banner 18 feels so close.  Hopefully it all comes together like we all hope it will (growth, chemistry, health, etc.).


After 18 months with their Bigs, the Littles were: 46% less likely to use illegal drugs, 27% less likely to use alcohol, 52% less likely to skip school, 37% less likely to skip a class

Re: 2019 Celtics - Best team ever?
« Reply #52 on: August 04, 2018, 12:57:47 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
I can't decide if I was more excited heading into the '07-'08 season, or now heading into the '18-'19 season!

I want to say now, but that might just be more recency bias.

Yeah this is probably the most excited I’ve gone into a season since 2009-10 (expecting a healthy KG).

But that 2007-08 season had me waking up early for a preseason game in Italy.


If healthy, I believe this starting five is more talented than the starting five that won the championship in 07-08.

Not crazy at all. Rondo wasn't Rondo yet and Perk topped out as a valuable defender of big men and great locker room guy. This year the Celtics are likely going to start 5 guys who will be all stars or borderline all stars.
But Garnett and Pierce were better than anyone on the current team and Allen peaked higher than anyone on the current team has (though Irving is still pointing up and probably peaks higher than Ray did).  So yeah Rondo and Perk might have been the 9th and 10th men if you were picking teams, but the first pick would have been Garnett and the 2nd pick would have been Pierce.  And that matters a great deal more.

Irving was a potential top 5 MVP candidate when he was healthy last year, before the last month or two of the season.  That wasn't ever the case for Pierce in '08. 

Also considering Kyrie is already a champ / top 3 player in a historic finals, All Star Game MVP, is a 5 time All Star at 25, and was a top 2-3 player on an Olympic Gold medal team, I think he has a decent argument to be given the nod over '08 Pierce.  And I love me some Pierce.

EDIT - That said, I don't expect 70 or even 65 wins.  I think 62 would be amazing.

I fully maintain that Pierce in 08 will almost certainly be better than Irving in 19.  Irving is a terrible defender, mediocre passer, poor rebounder, etc.  He is incredible with the ball in his hand and can score at will, but that doesn't make him better than an in prime Paul Pierce.

Irving was a much better defender in Boston and hardly terrible. He's not a poor rebounder when you factor in his position. I mean, sure, he's not going to be a good rebounder when compared to bigs, but he out-rebounded or was on least on par with guys like Klay, Bledsoe, Mitchell, DeRozan, Smith Jr., J. Richardson, etc. So he's not a poor rebounder when considering his position.
Irving was in fact a terrible defender in Boston because he is a terrible defender.  Of the regulars only Semi had a worse DRTG.  He had the same DRTG as Larkin, Bird, and Allen.  Just because Boston was a very good defensive team, doesn't mean Irving was a good defender.  He wasn't.  He was a terrible defender.  Irving's TRB% of 6.4 is poor.  He was tied with Smart and only ahead of Allen and Gibson on the entire team.  Using other bad rebounders and saying he is on par with them, doesn't help that point.  Irving is a bad rebounder.  He isn't terrible like he is defensively, but he most certainly is a poor rebounder.
Because after all, DRTG is the be all and end all of assessing how good one is at defence. One only has to look at Shane Larkin's superior rating to Marcus Smart, or LaMarcus Aldridge's superior rating to Clint Capela, or James Harden's superior rating to Steven Adams to see the validity of it as the only metric to consider ::)

Also complaining about the rebounding of a PG who still averages around 4 a game is a pretty hilarious thing to be complaining about
it doesn't matter what metric you use, Irving was a terrible defender. 

All i said was Irving is a poor rebounder because he is.

Irving is one of the best scorers in NBA history but he does almost nothing else well.  He is no where near the overall player that Pierce was.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: 2019 Celtics - Best team ever?
« Reply #53 on: August 04, 2018, 01:46:07 PM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8497
  • Tommy Points: 975
I can't decide if I was more excited heading into the '07-'08 season, or now heading into the '18-'19 season!

I want to say now, but that might just be more recency bias.

Yeah this is probably the most excited I’ve gone into a season since 2009-10 (expecting a healthy KG).

But that 2007-08 season had me waking up early for a preseason game in Italy.


If healthy, I believe this starting five is more talented than the starting five that won the championship in 07-08.

Not crazy at all. Rondo wasn't Rondo yet and Perk topped out as a valuable defender of big men and great locker room guy. This year the Celtics are likely going to start 5 guys who will be all stars or borderline all stars.
But Garnett and Pierce were better than anyone on the current team and Allen peaked higher than anyone on the current team has (though Irving is still pointing up and probably peaks higher than Ray did).  So yeah Rondo and Perk might have been the 9th and 10th men if you were picking teams, but the first pick would have been Garnett and the 2nd pick would have been Pierce.  And that matters a great deal more.

Irving was a potential top 5 MVP candidate when he was healthy last year, before the last month or two of the season.  That wasn't ever the case for Pierce in '08. 

Also considering Kyrie is already a champ / top 3 player in a historic finals, All Star Game MVP, is a 5 time All Star at 25, and was a top 2-3 player on an Olympic Gold medal team, I think he has a decent argument to be given the nod over '08 Pierce.  And I love me some Pierce.

EDIT - That said, I don't expect 70 or even 65 wins.  I think 62 would be amazing.

I fully maintain that Pierce in 08 will almost certainly be better than Irving in 19.  Irving is a terrible defender, mediocre passer, poor rebounder, etc.  He is incredible with the ball in his hand and can score at will, but that doesn't make him better than an in prime Paul Pierce.

Irving was a much better defender in Boston and hardly terrible. He's not a poor rebounder when you factor in his position. I mean, sure, he's not going to be a good rebounder when compared to bigs, but he out-rebounded or was on least on par with guys like Klay, Bledsoe, Mitchell, DeRozan, Smith Jr., J. Richardson, etc. So he's not a poor rebounder when considering his position.
Irving was in fact a terrible defender in Boston because he is a terrible defender.  Of the regulars only Semi had a worse DRTG.  He had the same DRTG as Larkin, Bird, and Allen.  Just because Boston was a very good defensive team, doesn't mean Irving was a good defender.  He wasn't.  He was a terrible defender.  Irving's TRB% of 6.4 is poor.  He was tied with Smart and only ahead of Allen and Gibson on the entire team.  Using other bad rebounders and saying he is on par with them, doesn't help that point.  Irving is a bad rebounder.  He isn't terrible like he is defensively, but he most certainly is a poor rebounder.
Because after all, DRTG is the be all and end all of assessing how good one is at defence. One only has to look at Shane Larkin's superior rating to Marcus Smart, or LaMarcus Aldridge's superior rating to Clint Capela, or James Harden's superior rating to Steven Adams to see the validity of it as the only metric to consider ::)

Also complaining about the rebounding of a PG who still averages around 4 a game is a pretty hilarious thing to be complaining about
it doesn't matter what metric you use, Irving was a terrible defender. 

All i said was Irving is a poor rebounder because he is.

You probably just blurted out Irving being a poor rebounder, without researching actual numbers, and are sticking to your guns. If you want to say he's average, ok. But poor? That's simply not true. In fact, he's 14th out of all NBA PG's in RPG (12th if you don't count Simmons and Harden PG's) and would be ranked 15th if he were a SG.

Re: 2019 Celtics - Best team ever?
« Reply #54 on: August 04, 2018, 02:54:46 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48120
  • Tommy Points: 8794
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
As a PG, and yes PGs should be judged apart from other positions when it comes to rebounding because they are usually found farther from the basket as compared to other positions, Kyrie is okay as a rebounder. Looking at it as just a basketball player, no positions defined, then yeah, he is a poor rebounder but then so are 97% of PGs.

As a passer, Kyrie shows good vision and passing ability. He is just more of a scoring PG. So yeah, his assist numbers aren't great. But compared to Paul Pierce, Irving is a much better passer than Pierce.

Re: 2019 Celtics - Best team ever?
« Reply #55 on: August 04, 2018, 05:25:05 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
As a PG, and yes PGs should be judged apart from other positions when it comes to rebounding because they are usually found farther from the basket as compared to other positions, Kyrie is okay as a rebounder. Looking at it as just a basketball player, no positions defined, then yeah, he is a poor rebounder but then so are 97% of PGs.

As a passer, Kyrie shows good vision and passing ability. He is just more of a scoring PG. So yeah, his assist numbers aren't great. But compared to Paul Pierce, Irving is a much better passer than Pierce.
I use rates and Irving is a poor rebounder even among PG's. He isn't terrible but he isn't good.  Totals are always misleading for those type of things.

Irving is a better passer than Pierce I never claimed he wasn't but he is a PG and as PG's go he is average at best.  He is very reckless with the ball and his vision is only average. His passing skills are passable since he is such a great scorer but he isn't winning any awards for his passing either.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: 2019 Celtics - Best team ever?
« Reply #56 on: August 04, 2018, 07:30:16 PM »

Offline moiso

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7640
  • Tommy Points: 441
I don’t care about Irving’s rebounding but I have to agree with Moranis that he’s not good in any areas other than scoring and ballhandling.  His defense is bad and his passing is very dissapointing, not only because he’s primarily a scorer, but because he doesn’t see open guys or guys who are about to become open. 

Re: 2019 Celtics - Best team ever?
« Reply #57 on: August 04, 2018, 07:55:54 PM »

Offline JHTruth

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2297
  • Tommy Points: 111
I don’t care about Irving’s rebounding but I have to agree with Moranis that he’s not good in any areas other than scoring and ballhandling.  His defense is bad and his passing is very dissapointing, not only because he’s primarily a scorer, but because he doesn’t see open guys or guys who are about to become open.

Yes he's a score first and second PG. Why ultimately he's pretty replaceable by Rosier or anyone that can score honestly..

Re: 2019 Celtics - Best team ever?
« Reply #58 on: August 04, 2018, 08:26:12 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48120
  • Tommy Points: 8794
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
I don’t care about Irving’s rebounding but I have to agree with Moranis that he’s not good in any areas other than scoring and ballhandling.  His defense is bad and his passing is very dissapointing, not only because he’s primarily a scorer, but because he doesn’t see open guys or guys who are about to become open.

Yes he's a score first and second PG. Why ultimately he's pretty replaceable by Rosier or anyone that can score honestly..
I thought the playoffs pretty much proved that Irving is not easily replaceable and certainly not by Rozier. If this team was missing anything last year it was Kyrie's ability to find and create an open shot and hit it during the toughest of times and biggest of games.

Re: 2019 Celtics - Best team ever?
« Reply #59 on: August 04, 2018, 08:38:08 PM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
I don’t care about Irving’s rebounding but I have to agree with Moranis that he’s not good in any areas other than scoring and ballhandling.  His defense is bad and his passing is very dissapointing, not only because he’s primarily a scorer, but because he doesn’t see open guys or guys who are about to become open.

Yes he's a score first and second PG. Why ultimately he's pretty replaceable by Rosier or anyone that can score honestly..
I thought the playoffs pretty much proved that Irving is not easily replaceable and certainly not by Rozier. If this team was missing anything last year it was Kyrie's ability to find and create an open shot and hit it during the toughest of times and biggest of games.
Yeah, not sure how the takeaway can be that Kyrie is replaceable. We currently have nobody who is really that close in terms of their ability to score whenever they want. Whenever a set of ours broke down, our whole offence started to malfunction - whereas if we had Kyrie, we could just give it to him and let him go to work. That was his most valuable asset in Cleveland too, where he proved to not be easily replaced at all
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)