Speculation: Emmanuel Mudiay as the target of a Kyrie Trade

[droopdog7]

I play out the season with kyrie.

[Fafnir]

Wait you think Mudiay has value? He's on a pace to be out of the league next year.

He was traded for a 2nd round pick which they then sent to Dallas (maybe they were separate not sure) so they could get Devin Harris to play backup PG. Devin Harris the 34 year-old journeyman.

Are we at least getting Tim Hardaway Jr. back in the deal along with Mudiay? Might as well get the Knicks two "best" assets  .

[indeedproceed]

I'd dust off my pitchforks and torches (I have enough to share from a previous mob) and get my angry townsperson face ready if we traded Kyrie for Mudiay.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

In the scenario you described (I think Irving is a Celtic long-term), why in the world would the Knicks be able to take their top 4 assets are off the table. Irving is a top 10 player in the NBA.

The trade packages for other similar players in the last year of their contract were:

Leonard: An all-star (DeRozan) and a really good young player (Poetl
George: A good starter that turned into an All-star (Oladipo) and a good young player (Sabonis)

A player like Irving (and I still think he is staying) would at least pull in a high level starter and a good young player. The Knicks don't have any high level starters. Mudiay was dumped last year by Denver. They gave up on him. The general rule is that if a player's first team dumps them, then they don't succeed in the NBA. Mudiay is neither a high-level starter nor a really good young player.

Hardaway is a net negative on that contract and is really not a good starter. Lee is a decent role player, nothing more. Kanter is Greg Monroe. Noah is nothing.

In the scenario you listed, the Knicks would likely need to give up two of their good young players, and the receiving team would have to be willing to receive either a decent role player (Lee) or a bad contract (Hardaway).

Seriously, this Kyrie to the Knicks is just speculation. It's a media narrative for the slow off-season. The Knicks are a terribly run organization that have been terrible for 20 years. They don't have as much cap space as people think next offseason (like 18 million with renouncing everyone but Zinger) and it's going to require trading a lot of young assets with their bad salaries in order to open up enough cap space.

The Nets are a much bigger threat to sign two high-level players.

[Evantime34]

I play out the season with kyrie.

Yeah, if mid-season Kyrie tells Danny he's going to New York next year you still keep him. Maybe he changes his mind during the Celtics finals run while the Knicks end up with one of the worst records in the league.

Mudiay would be a 3rd string pg on the Celtics next year if Boston lost Kyrie (if Kyrie leaves you can bet that Rozier stays long term). With all the quality picks the C's could have next year they could even draft someone who pushes Mudiay to the 4th pg spot.

I'd rather bet that the C's can change Kyrie's mind than take a 3rd/4th string pg back.

[PhoSita]

I would just keep Kyrie and see how far the Celts can go in the playoffs.


A player can say what he wants but if the Celts go to the Finals it'll be that much harder to commit to going to play for one of the worst run franchises in the league.

[perks-a-beast]

In the extremely unlikely scenario that Kyrie walks into Danny’s office and asks to get traded to the Knicks, trade him. It would say a lot about a player who asks to be traded from a contender to one of the worst teams in the league in the midsts of a hunt for a championship. It’ll never happen, but if it does, I suppose Ntilikina, Knox, and a first wouldn’t be a bad return.

[Monkhouse]

Kyrie walks into the office and say's "Danny I appreciate you pulling me out of that situation, and giving me the platform to show I could ball without LeBron but I'm signing with New York next year. I'm in the last year of my deal, you know my value isn't that high to 90% of teams in the league, trade me to the Knicks now and take back some assets as compensation for smoothing out the transition.

What do you look in a return for from New York?

They're going to want to keep Nitilikina, Kevin Knox and probably Mitchell Robinson. Porzingis is obviously off the table.

What of their assets would you target?

I vote you couldn't ask for a better fit than Emmanuel Mudiay.

Terry walks into the starting role but without Kyrie, we still would have a decent sized hole at 3rd guard. Mudiay/Smart could offer an interesting dynamic off the bench. It was only 3 years ago that Mudiay went 7'th in the draft, ahead of strong prospects in Justise Winslow, Myles Turner, Devin Booker and Terry Rozier himself.

He has good size at the guard at 6-5, 200lb and is cost controlled through 2019/2020. We've seen Brad Stevens get incredible season's out of players that the league had turned its back on. Mudiay even had the near SMU connection with Semi Ojeyle who he would now be sharing the bench rotation with.

Mudiay/Smart may be one of the worst shooting backcourts in the league but they'd also be a big imposing matchup problem for many of the teams out there.

If we have to lose Kyrie lets take a swing at a distressed asset with the potential to bring our guard core to new heights. Let's get Emmanuel Mudiay.

Okay, I lol'ed. Mudiay/Smart might be the worst shooting backcourt in the history of the NBA.

[moiso]

I would just keep Kyrie and see how far the Celts can go in the playoffs.


A player can say what he wants but if the Celts go to the Finals it'll be that much harder to commit to going to play for one of the worst run franchises in the league.

He’s going to know what kind of team the Celtics are by midseason though.  I want to be a great team for a long time.  I’d take him at his word and trade him... and be thankful for him giving the heads up.

[Jvalin]

Assuming Kyrie informs Danny that he is planning to leave next summer via free agency
(for what it's worth, I believe Kyrie will re-sign with the C's)

3-way trade: Celtics - Cavs - Knicks

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7107043

Knicks in: Kyrie
Knicks out: Noah, Knox, Ntilikina

Celtics in: Love
Celtics out: Kyrie

Cavs in: Noah, Knox, Ntilikina
Cavs out: Love

(Or something along those lines. Feel free to add pick(s) if necessary.)

Love cannot be traded till January 23.


Thing is, I'm not really a fan of Love's game. Can you guys think of other possible targets for a 3-way trade?

[smokeablount]

Assuming Kyrie informs Danny that he is planning to leave next summer via free agency
(for what it's worth, I believe Kyrie will re-sign with the C's)

3-way trade: Celtics - Cavs - Knicks

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7107043

Knicks in: Kyrie
Knicks out: Noah, Knox, Ntilikina

Celtics in: Love
Celtics out: Kyrie

Cavs in: Noah, Knox, Ntilikina
Cavs out: Love

(Or something along those lines. Feel free to add pick(s) if necessary.)

Love cannot be traded till January 23.


Thing is, I'm not really a fan of Love's game. Can you guys think of other possible targets for a 3-way trade?

I'd probably rather leave the Cavs out of this deal and get Knox and Ntilkina.

[Smartacus]

Thanks for the replies everyone I guess I'm probably just off in my evaluation but respectfully to those saying that the Knicks would consider including Ntilikina and/or Knox I still just don't see it.

IMO The most logical way to look at it is that if the Knicks keep their young assets off the table, then there is no deal to be made. I just figured Mudiay and a protected pick was better than losing Kyrie for free but from an optics standpoint its probably not enough to make management move forward with the trade.

[Sophomore]

Thanks for the replies everyone I guess I'm probably just off in my evaluation but respectfully to those saying that the Knicks would consider including Ntilikina and/or Knox I still just don't see it.

IMO The most logical way to look at it is that if the Knicks keep their young assets off the table, then there is no deal to be made. I just figured Mudiay and a protected pick was better than losing Kyrie for free but from an optics standpoint its probably not enough to make management move forward with the trade.

I think the key piece of disagreement is about how to value the coming year. As I see it, if Kyrie stays we are favorites to come out of the East and go to the Finals. There, we should (at least!) be able to Golden State a run for its money, and if the injury gods favor us instead of them I could see us becoming the favorites.

The value of that year is way, way, way more than any number of years of Mudiay and a protected pick. So, I don't see keeping Kyrie another year as "losing Kyrie for free". You have to count next year.

It's possible the Knicks would not send their youngsters to get a year of Kyrie and first shot at keeping him beyond (remember that there is another team in NYC, at least, as competition). But if so, as you say, there is no deal to be made.

[Smartacus]

Thanks for the replies everyone I guess I'm probably just off in my evaluation but respectfully to those saying that the Knicks would consider including Ntilikina and/or Knox I still just don't see it.

IMO The most logical way to look at it is that if the Knicks keep their young assets off the table, then there is no deal to be made. I just figured Mudiay and a protected pick was better than losing Kyrie for free but from an optics standpoint its probably not enough to make management move forward with the trade.

I think the key piece of disagreement is about how to value the coming year. As I see it, if Kyrie stays we are favorites to come out of the East and go to the Finals. There, we should (at least!) be able to Golden State a run for its money, and if the injury gods favor us instead of them I could see us becoming the favorites.

The value of that year is way, way, way more than any number of years of Mudiay and a protected pick. So, I don't see keeping Kyrie another year as "losing Kyrie for free". You have to count next year.

It's possible the Knicks would not send their youngsters to get a year of Kyrie and first shot at keeping him beyond (remember that there is another team in NYC, at least, as competition). But if so, as you say, there is no deal to be made.

Well put, TP!

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Thanks for the replies everyone I guess I'm probably just off in my evaluation but respectfully to those saying that the Knicks would consider including Ntilikina and/or Knox I still just don't see it.

IMO The most logical way to look at it is that if the Knicks keep their young assets off the table, then there is no deal to be made. I just figured Mudiay and a protected pick was better than losing Kyrie for free but from an optics standpoint its probably not enough to make management move forward with the trade.

You can't get a superstar player by trading nothing, even if he is on the last year of his deal. Mudiay has zero value (as exhibited by the fact that Denver got a 2nd round pick for him). Hardaway, Kanter, and Noah have negative value on their contracts. Lee has negligible value.

Other than first rounders, which are likely to be late lottery picks for the forseeable future, Knox and Frankie are the only assets they have on that team. They would have to give up one, and they'd be happy to do it.

Knox's summer league was overblown with talk of the 2019 version of Jayson Tatum (some commentators saying he was a more athletic version of him *rolls eyes*). He had one stretch where he got unusustainably hot from 3, but when he faced NBA defenders, he was forgettable. He is not the new Devin Booker. His lateral foot speed is not good and his quickness will seriously hamper his scoring upside. At best, he is Wilson Chandler or Marcus Morris.

The Knicks took all of a few months to decide Frankie didn't have the offensive ability to run the point. Even though they were a lottery team, they still didn't think highly enough of his scoring ability to give him the reps to develop, which probably means they think he is more off an off-ball player/defensive specialist. I like his game and think he has potential, but I've seen enough question marks to doubt that he can be a primary offensive player on a playoff team.

It's not like either player has that much value. Both players are intriguing prospects, but these guys are probably not future all-stars.