Author Topic: Will Kyrie mess up Ainge plan?  (Read 6550 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Will Kyrie mess up Ainge plan?
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2018, 04:30:58 PM »

Online Vermont Green

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11414
  • Tommy Points: 870
the Knicks are a rebuilding team even with Kyrie.  Would he really leave a stacked Celtics team of which he is the leader and go to a bad Knicks team?  Doesn't seem to smart if he does.

My bigger concern with him is his knee.  If you have doubts about signing him to a big max contract because of his knee (which would be legitimate) then go ahead and try and trade him.  But I would not trade him just because I thought he would take less money to go to a worse team.

Re: Will Kyrie mess up Ainge plan?
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2018, 04:32:55 PM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30859
  • Tommy Points: 1327
Hayward can't run the offense
The 2016-2017 Jazz are very confused by this statement.

Re: Will Kyrie mess up Ainge plan?
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2018, 04:50:11 PM »

Offline td450

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2330
  • Tommy Points: 254
Point guards are the easiest players you can get to run your offense, but they aren't important if you have one or more wings that can do the same thing.

It may be better to commit to the positionless trend and see Kyrie as a point of defensive weakness that cannot be fixed.  I'm also pretty sure he won't like making room for Tatum and Brown to reach their potential.  Rozier or Smart aren't the answer either. Rozier just doesn't quite play big enough defensively and Smart can't shoot.

Longer term, we could instead start another defensive oriented wing that is quick enough to cover guards and who can consistently hit 3's. If we can get a quality resource for Kyrie, maybe we should let him go. I'm no cap expert, but it looks to me like we could clear room for a major free agent if we don't sign him and are willing to move Smart.

Hayward can run the offense and that Tatum and Brown will be able to as well as they evolve. We are in an amazing position where we have three big talented wings who all shoot very well, who all play rugged, flexible defense, and who all can attack the rim. On top of that, we have the most versatile big in the league to play with them. Let's go big and positionless and see if anyone can hang with us. Even GS has a couple of holes when they go small.

Kyrie doesn't give us that.

Mostly nonsense. Quick teams would eat up a positionless team without a true PG.

Kyrie is one of the 10 best players in the league. Tatum might become that, but he isn't right now.

Hayward can't run the offense, none of them can other than Smart, none of them can beat pressure like Kyrie, and he's far and away the best on the roster at getting his own shot. Because we have a # of players and picks, we can regroup and quickly rebuild if Kyrie leaves, but you'd have to be astoundingly naive to not think it's a harsh blow.

I really don't understand your criticism. Kyrie is a glaring defensive weakness You may remember in the playoffs how LeBron endlessly backed Rozier down into the lane, and Rozier is a far superior defender to Kyrie. Do you really think we would have more defensive integrity because Kyrie is defending a point guard rather than Brown, or some other wing we bring in primarily for defense? I doubt you could find a single point guard in the league that would rather have Brown cover them instead of Kyrie.

You can clearly run your offense through Hayward. You can even run it through Horford for spots. No one is going to successfully press a team that big, fast and skilled. And I doubt seriously that a team like that will have any trouble creating shots. If we have a problem, it will be how to keep everyone happy.




Re: Will Kyrie mess up Ainge plan?
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2018, 06:19:32 PM »

Offline JHTruth

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2297
  • Tommy Points: 111
Point guards are the easiest players you can get to run your offense, but they aren't important if you have one or more wings that can do the same thing.

It may be better to commit to the positionless trend and see Kyrie as a point of defensive weakness that cannot be fixed.  I'm also pretty sure he won't like making room for Tatum and Brown to reach their potential.  Rozier or Smart aren't the answer either. Rozier just doesn't quite play big enough defensively and Smart can't shoot.

Longer term, we could instead start another defensive oriented wing that is quick enough to cover guards and who can consistently hit 3's. If we can get a quality resource for Kyrie, maybe we should let him go. I'm no cap expert, but it looks to me like we could clear room for a major free agent if we don't sign him and are willing to move Smart.

Hayward can run the offense and that Tatum and Brown will be able to as well as they evolve. We are in an amazing position where we have three big talented wings who all shoot very well, who all play rugged, flexible defense, and who all can attack the rim. On top of that, we have the most versatile big in the league to play with them. Let's go big and positionless and see if anyone can hang with us. Even GS has a couple of holes when they go small.

Kyrie doesn't give us that.

Mostly nonsense. Quick teams would eat up a positionless team without a true PG.

Kyrie is one of the 10 best players in the league. Tatum might become that, but he isn't right now.

Hayward can't run the offense, none of them can other than Smart, none of them can beat pressure like Kyrie, and he's far and away the best on the roster at getting his own shot. Because we have a # of players and picks, we can regroup and quickly rebuild if Kyrie leaves, but you'd have to be astoundingly naive to not think it's a harsh blow.

It would be a harsh blow, for a year or two. But at some point Kyrie will need to sacrifice shots and touches to Tatum and Brown. Maybe we draft another stud with the Sac pick. How will Kyrie handle being the 2nd or 3rd option?

In an ideal world, we'd resign Kyrie for another 2 after this year to line-up with the Hayward deal and then turn over the PG keys to someone like Rozier who doesn't need a ton of shots and can defer to Tatum/Brown/whomever. Add a defensive big like Williams and we're right back to contention..

Re: Will Kyrie mess up Ainge plan?
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2018, 08:17:44 PM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
No he won't.

'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Will Kyrie mess up Ainge plan?
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2018, 08:41:27 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

  • NCE
  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1401
  • Tommy Points: 140
If Kyrie-to-NY is a legit possibility, it'll be interesting to see whether Danny trades him midseason (to get something for him) or decides that the team's best title chance this season is with Kyrie (and thus holds on to him and, if Kyrie leaves, is content with the cap space that'll free up).

Yes, it would not be the end of the world if Irving gets traded or moves on to New York next summer.  Frees up $ to pay other players and gives Scary Terry a starting spot in Boston.  I don't want to start a debate about who is better KI or TR, but Terry is going to continue to improve AND he actually plays pretty good defense!  Kyrie defensive effort (or lack there of) troubles me.

It would not be good.  Kyrie is our Curry- and in a world where we'll be taking on the real Curry, Durant, Klay and Dray (and DMC) on the same juggernaut opponent- losing Kyrie would definitely hurt even though we have an amazing coach to maximize our substantial remaining talent.  We'd need to trade him for quality picks and hopefully clear cap space.

We don't know how GH will return to form.  Without Kyrie, GS could potentially have the top 3 players in a matchup with us (Steph, KD, Klay) until that team dissolves / Tatum steps up.

Terry Rozier is a nice player, a starting caliber PG with upside, but he will never be as good as Kyrie was at age 21, and Kyrie's only getting better.  Rozier is maybe a top 60-75 player at best at age 24, but Kyrie was a top 12-15 player last year at 25.  That's a colossal difference.

I'm not buying the hype that Kyrie's going to leave.  He has the ultimate player's coach, he's the top dog in a major market on a top 3 team with a chance to win it all, and he's a smart guy who has to care that our team braintrust is elite and will ensure his team is competitive.

But if the hype heats up throughout the year like the Lebron to LA talk, I might start to squirm.

Top 60-75 huh?  He was the starting point-guard on a team that was a few possessions away from the NBA finals bro. 

Re: Will Kyrie mess up Ainge plan?
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2018, 08:45:59 PM »

Offline celticsclay

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15930
  • Tommy Points: 1395
Kyrie to NY heating up on Cowherd.

Lol. Cowherd is about as informed of kyries plans as me, perhaps less

Re: Will Kyrie mess up Ainge plan?
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2018, 08:56:43 PM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
If Kyrie-to-NY is a legit possibility, it'll be interesting to see whether Danny trades him midseason (to get something for him) or decides that the team's best title chance this season is with Kyrie (and thus holds on to him and, if Kyrie leaves, is content with the cap space that'll free up).

Yes, it would not be the end of the world if Irving gets traded or moves on to New York next summer.  Frees up $ to pay other players and gives Scary Terry a starting spot in Boston.  I don't want to start a debate about who is better KI or TR, but Terry is going to continue to improve AND he actually plays pretty good defense!  Kyrie defensive effort (or lack there of) troubles me.

It would not be good.  Kyrie is our Curry- and in a world where we'll be taking on the real Curry, Durant, Klay and Dray (and DMC) on the same juggernaut opponent- losing Kyrie would definitely hurt even though we have an amazing coach to maximize our substantial remaining talent.  We'd need to trade him for quality picks and hopefully clear cap space.

We don't know how GH will return to form.  Without Kyrie, GS could potentially have the top 3 players in a matchup with us (Steph, KD, Klay) until that team dissolves / Tatum steps up.

Terry Rozier is a nice player, a starting caliber PG with upside, but he will never be as good as Kyrie was at age 21, and Kyrie's only getting better.  Rozier is maybe a top 60-75 player at best at age 24, but Kyrie was a top 12-15 player last year at 25.  That's a colossal difference.

I'm not buying the hype that Kyrie's going to leave.  He has the ultimate player's coach, he's the top dog in a major market on a top 3 team with a chance to win it all, and he's a smart guy who has to care that our team braintrust is elite and will ensure his team is competitive.

But if the hype heats up throughout the year like the Lebron to LA talk, I might start to squirm.

Top 60-75 huh?  He was the starting point-guard on a team that was a few possessions away from the NBA finals bro.
And? George Hill was the starting point-guard on the team that did make the Finals
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Will Kyrie mess up Ainge plan?
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2018, 10:22:42 PM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18543
  • Tommy Points: 1557
Kyrie to NY heating up on Cowherd.
Well, Cowherd is a clown so I wouldn't pay much attention to what he says.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^




END THREAD
LET'S GO CELTICS!

Re: Will Kyrie mess up Ainge plan?
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2018, 10:30:09 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5572
  • Tommy Points: 699
Point guards are the easiest players you can get to run your offense, but they aren't important if you have one or more wings that can do the same thing.

It may be better to commit to the positionless trend and see Kyrie as a point of defensive weakness that cannot be fixed.  I'm also pretty sure he won't like making room for Tatum and Brown to reach their potential.  Rozier or Smart aren't the answer either. Rozier just doesn't quite play big enough defensively and Smart can't shoot.

Longer term, we could instead start another defensive oriented wing that is quick enough to cover guards and who can consistently hit 3's. If we can get a quality resource for Kyrie, maybe we should let him go. I'm no cap expert, but it looks to me like we could clear room for a major free agent if we don't sign him and are willing to move Smart.

Hayward can run the offense and that Tatum and Brown will be able to as well as they evolve. We are in an amazing position where we have three big talented wings who all shoot very well, who all play rugged, flexible defense, and who all can attack the rim. On top of that, we have the most versatile big in the league to play with them. Let's go big and positionless and see if anyone can hang with us. Even GS has a couple of holes when they go small.

Kyrie doesn't give us that.

Mostly nonsense. Quick teams would eat up a positionless team without a true PG.

Kyrie is one of the 10 best players in the league. Tatum might become that, but he isn't right now.

Hayward can't run the offense, none of them can other than Smart, none of them can beat pressure like Kyrie, and he's far and away the best on the roster at getting his own shot. Because we have a # of players and picks, we can regroup and quickly rebuild if Kyrie leaves, but you'd have to be astoundingly naive to not think it's a harsh blow.

I really don't understand your criticism. Kyrie is a glaring defensive weakness You may remember in the playoffs how LeBron endlessly backed Rozier down into the lane, and Rozier is a far superior defender to Kyrie. Do you really think we would have more defensive integrity because Kyrie is defending a point guard rather than Brown, or some other wing we bring in primarily for defense? I doubt you could find a single point guard in the league that would rather have Brown cover them instead of Kyrie.

You can clearly run your offense through Hayward. You can even run it through Horford for spots. No one is going to successfully press a team that big, fast and skilled. And I doubt seriously that a team like that will have any trouble creating shots. If we have a problem, it will be how to keep everyone happy.

Even positionless basketball have "positions".

You can run plays through Horford and Hayward, and both are excellent playmakers. However, it is not advisable to not have true ballhandlers on the floor. No, if we don't have Kyrie I still want Smart/Rozier to be on the floor.

Its also a bad idea to compare Rozier guarding Lebron vs a guard guarding a guard. Rozier guarding is a mismatch as does Horford guarding Kemba. When you play against guards, Brown can handle it, but you don't want him to do that 24/7. He will get tired and take away from offense, plus Korver and Middleton scored on Brown through screens, what more if its guys like Curry? This is why Smart and Bradley are excellent guard defenders, they can fight through screens easier than someone like Brown or Morris. Its also why IT had a relatively decent job defending Curry.

Re: Will Kyrie mess up Ainge plan?
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2018, 10:31:59 PM »

Offline Fred Roberts

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1534
  • Tommy Points: 102
I feel like kyrie looked like the happiest guy in the nba last season, pre injury. Loves the team, coach, situation. Fan love fest. Dad's ties to BU, wearing his number 11. He definitely fits in while standing out.

The NYK thing may be a natural contemplation but I don't think I've seen anything remotely close to an unhappy player.. just frustrated by not being able to play and bring the celts a title against the whiner warriors.


Re: Will Kyrie mess up Ainge plan?
« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2018, 11:02:11 PM »

Offline tstorey_97

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3667
  • Tommy Points: 586
Question: Will Kyrie mess up Ainge's plan?

I don't think so. Ainge took the opportunity to trade IT et al for "one year of Irving." Last year being the "play some" and do medical procedures.

What did Ainge trade? Players who were not part of his plan.

He got Irving for this season and what's the matter with that?

If Ainge loses Irving he hasn't lost anything because he didn't give up anything. He wasn't going to sign Thomas and he was building the championship team of the future. Irving shows up for awhile so be it....Irving signs a long term deal?

El jackpoto.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 11:09:04 PM by tstorey_97 »

Re: Will Kyrie mess up Ainge plan?
« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2018, 11:30:45 PM »

Offline trickybilly

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5600
  • Tommy Points: 618
Meh, let's see if this Ntilikina kid turns into an all-star by the break. Then throw in some expiring salary so we can re-up Jaylen and Jayson, and we can talk...

This Kyrie obsession is understandable, but misplaced.
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Will Kyrie mess up Ainge plan?
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2018, 06:05:38 AM »

Offline Greyman

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 784
  • Tommy Points: 211
Kyrie would be a great loss but DA has built this squad with plenty of cover and Stevens. East finals minus Kyrie and Hayward and the young players are a year older. The future is bright either way. That said, I much much prefer him to stay with the Celtics.

I also believe Kyrie is smart enough and happy enough to see the potential of being a Celtic coached by Stevens right when they can make history.

Re: Will Kyrie mess up Ainge plan?
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2018, 06:38:08 AM »

Offline Surferdad

  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14484
  • Tommy Points: 976
  • "He fiddles...and diddles..."
IMO, Ainge is better off NOT trading Kyrie, but letting his contract expire.  There are too many other guys that need to get paid, and taking back salary would make that difficult.