Toronto Raptors closing line-up

[droopdog7]

The raptors are easily the second best team in the east, closer to the Celtics than they are to the third place team.

So yeah, I think they can make the eastern conference finals.

[tazzmaniac]

Obviously everyone is talking about the Raptors' season hinging on Kawhi, and rightfully so, but I think Lowry's play is going to have a lot to do with it as well. He's still their #2 scorer and lead ballhandler. How he adjusts to Kawhi and if he can still be an all-star caliber player will mean a lot for them.

If Lowry takes a step back and it's the Kawhi Leonard show, that might not be enough to get past a healthy Sixers team.

That said, Lowry was a deserving All-Star last year, and there’s not much evidence that he’s primed to take a step back this year other than it happens eventually to everyone.

His season last year was a step back.  6pts less per game.  3 less FTAs per game.  Shooting percentages down a bit. 

[KGs Knee]

I think the only three players on the Raptors with guaranteed spots in both the starting lineup and/or closing lineup are Kawhi, Lowry, and Anunoby. The other two spots will be matchup based. 

The one player I think people are seriously overlooking in all of this, is Jonas Valanciunas. Nurse is a big fan of his, and has worked with JV individually over the last few seasons on a lot of aspects of his game, helping him to become more of a 'modern' big man. If there was one player who I think might be the odd man out, it's Ibaka. He seems to be getting worse each year, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he ends up being a 15-20 minute per game sub this season.

[Eddie20]

They're not going to be able to close with a small ball lineup against the Sixers.

Can't ever stop thinking about the Sixers can you.

On the flip-side, who on the Sixers is going to be able to cover the shooting and quickness that the small ball Raptors lineup would throw at them? Who are you putting Redick on? If he becomes unplayable, then how will you create spacing on offense?

Pretty obvious to think about the Sixers.  Raptors/Sixers meeting in the semis seems likely as mentioned by the 2nd poster.  I thought about mentioning Miami but Whiteside looked horrendously bad in the playoffs.  I forgot the Wizards picked up Howard.  He could give that small ball lineup problems.  I guess I could mention the Pistons too but I don't see them finishing better the 8th so we'd take care of them in the 1st. 

The Raptors offense isn't particulary intimidating.  The Sixers were a top 5 defense.  Covington, Simmons, McConnell, etc with Embiid as a backstop will do just fine against them.  I don't see Redick becoming unplayable against anyone but definitely not the Raptors.  I'd probably put Redick on Green.

Interesting so who's covering Lowry and Van Fleet? Don't forget that Covington's biggest issue defensively is his lateral quickness and preventing dribble penetration.

Against your proposed closing lineup, McConnell guards Lowry.  I'd try Redick on VanVleet.   If that doesn't work, I'd shift Redick to cover Green and whoever of Covington or Simmons isn't guarding Leonard would guard VanVleet.  With Embiid planted in the paint, I wouldn't be that concerned about dribble penetration.  The wildcard is Fultz.  He wouldn't have to improve all that much before I'd put him on VanVleet. 

So tell me, how do the Raptors guard Embiid with Siakam at the 5?

I don't mind mixing defenses on Embiid, playing him straight up or doubling off TJ or Simmons to keep him guessing. He's prone to settling for a lot of bad shots and is very turnover prone. For a big, his FG% was pretty bad, so I'm not too worried about his efficiency scoring the call either. He also has a tendency to wear down and he'll have to do a lot of heavy lifting because I can see Leonard completely shutting down the one dimensional scoring of Simmons.

On the other end, TJ on Lowry and JJ on Van Fleet are two really bad matchups for the Sixers. Plus, Siakam is really mobile and athletic so I would him involved in a lot of PNR's to keep Embiid expending energy. Can Embiid hedge on a Lowey or Van Fleet and recover quickly enough on to a rolling Siakam. Will a defender have to rotate to prevent a lob? If so, who contests the two shooters - Leonard and Green?

You also fail to mention experience. The Raptors just added two veterans with championship pedigree to go along with a team full of playoff experience.

[tazzmaniac]

They're not going to be able to close with a small ball lineup against the Sixers.

Can't ever stop thinking about the Sixers can you.

On the flip-side, who on the Sixers is going to be able to cover the shooting and quickness that the small ball Raptors lineup would throw at them? Who are you putting Redick on? If he becomes unplayable, then how will you create spacing on offense?

Pretty obvious to think about the Sixers.  Raptors/Sixers meeting in the semis seems likely as mentioned by the 2nd poster.  I thought about mentioning Miami but Whiteside looked horrendously bad in the playoffs.  I forgot the Wizards picked up Howard.  He could give that small ball lineup problems.  I guess I could mention the Pistons too but I don't see them finishing better the 8th so we'd take care of them in the 1st. 

The Raptors offense isn't particulary intimidating.  The Sixers were a top 5 defense.  Covington, Simmons, McConnell, etc with Embiid as a backstop will do just fine against them.  I don't see Redick becoming unplayable against anyone but definitely not the Raptors.  I'd probably put Redick on Green.

Interesting so who's covering Lowry and Van Fleet? Don't forget that Covington's biggest issue defensively is his lateral quickness and preventing dribble penetration.

Against your proposed closing lineup, McConnell guards Lowry.  I'd try Redick on VanVleet.   If that doesn't work, I'd shift Redick to cover Green and whoever of Covington or Simmons isn't guarding Leonard would guard VanVleet.  With Embiid planted in the paint, I wouldn't be that concerned about dribble penetration.  The wildcard is Fultz.  He wouldn't have to improve all that much before I'd put him on VanVleet. 

So tell me, how do the Raptors guard Embiid with Siakam at the 5?

I don't mind mixing defenses on Embiid, playing him straight up or doubling off TJ or Simmons to keep him guessing. He's prone to settling for a lot of bad shots and is very turnover prone. For a big, his FG% was pretty bad, so I'm not too worried about his efficiency scoring the call either. He also has a tendency to wear down and he'll have to do a lot of heavy lifting because I can see Leonard completely shutting down the one dimensional scoring of Simmons.

On the other end, TJ on Lowry and JJ on Van Fleet are two really bad matchups for the Sixers. Plus, Siakam is really mobile and athletic so I would him involved in a lot of PNR's to keep Embiid expending energy. Can Embiid hedge on a Lowey or Van Fleet and recover quickly enough on to a rolling Siakam. Will a defender have to rotate to prevent a lob? If so, who contests the two shooters - Leonard and Green?

You also fail to mention experience. The Raptors just added two veterans with championship pedigree to go along with a team full of playoff experience.

Siakam is too undersized to play Embiid straight up.  Embiid's FG% is lower than other bigs because he has to create more of his shots.  Last season, Embiid was only assisted on 50% of his baskets whereas AD was assisted on 71% of his baskets.  That's also why his turnovers are higher.  Plus he had the 2nd highest usage rate only trailing Harden.  Fultz being productive would certainly make Embiid's job on offense easier.  Embiid can definitely hedge and then get back on Siakam.  He was 2nd in DPOY.  You're overrating VanVleet and Siakam.  They're just good bench role players. 

[saltlover]

Obviously everyone is talking about the Raptors' season hinging on Kawhi, and rightfully so, but I think Lowry's play is going to have a lot to do with it as well. He's still their #2 scorer and lead ballhandler. How he adjusts to Kawhi and if he can still be an all-star caliber player will mean a lot for them.

If Lowry takes a step back and it's the Kawhi Leonard show, that might not be enough to get past a healthy Sixers team.

That said, Lowry was a deserving All-Star last year, and there’s not much evidence that he’s primed to take a step back this year other than it happens eventually to everyone.

His season last year was a step back.  6pts less per game.  3 less FTAs per game.  Shooting percentages down a bit.

His shooting percentages were the second-highest of his career (measured by TS%).  That’s not really a step back so much as not being his absolute career best.  He averaged a career best per-36 in rebounds, and nearly that for assists.  The big change was that he took a career high in threes (which suppressed his free throws, naturally), but that seemed to be a team strategy more than anything else, as the Raptors as a whole took 35% more 3s last year than the prior year.

[tstorey_97]

Toronto worries me less and less every year. They are not a problem. Out of that line up they have one player that  can be in our starting five...and our bench is ridiculous

TP "...bench is ridiculous..."

I suggest a bench thread. You guys know better about the rest of the league, but, who has anything close to:

Smart
Rozier
Morris
Tatum

(I put Tatum there to freak everybody out...it's the off season)

Seriously, that bench is a match up "Nightmare on Elm Street" and Smart is Freddy and the rest of the NBA benches are victims.

[ozman]

Toronto worries me less and less every year. They are not a problem. Out of that line up they have one player that  can be in our starting five...and our bench is ridiculous

TP "...bench is ridiculous..."

I suggest a bench thread. You guys know better about the rest of the league, but, who has anything close to:

Smart
Rozier
Morris
Tatum

(I put Tatum there to freak everybody out...it's the off season)

Seriously, that bench is a match up "Nightmare on Elm Street" and Smart is Freddy and the rest of the NBA benches are victims.

TP for the Marcus Freddie anaolgy - beats the ‘cobra’ in my view!!!