Jabari Bird signing NBA Contract with Celtics

[DefenseWinsChamps]

With just a two-year deal, by the time he’s ready for that rotation place he’ll be a free agent.

Agreed. If he’s good, we will lose him. If he plays to expectations, we’ve wasted a roster spot and luxury tax on a non-rotation player.

Sounds like the glass half empty times two!!:-))  Thanks for the "positive" spin Roy:-)

Smitty77

The kid isn’t a rotation player. He struggled with his outside shot in the G-League, and he doesn’t play NBA-level defense.

Hopefully he’s taking Yabu’s place on the roster, and we’re trading Yabu elsewhere. Wishful thinking, but a championship roster doesn’t need several projects.

Those are confident assertions that I disagree with.

As a spot-up shooter and defender, I think he can be an NBA rotation player. He definitely could be E'twan Moore. I'm much more bullish on his defense than you are. What I saw in both the summer league and last year during the end of the season was a guy with the quickness, anticipation, and desire to play really good on-ball defense. As CBS was coaching him, he was making ball-handlers work with his length and quickness. Some comments by CBS make it clear that he think Bird is an NBA defensive talent.

On top of that, on offense he plays off-ball on the baseline with great feel and timing on his cuts.

Also, we have the full 15 player roster right now. Why would we trade anyone away unless it's to get under the luxury tax? Trading Yabu doesn't get us under the luxury tax, and we are unlikely to get comparable value back. Also, it's not like this team has a real "need" that trading Yabu can fill.

[blink]

With just a two-year deal, by the time he’s ready for that rotation place he’ll be a free agent.

Agreed. If he’s good, we will lose him. If he plays to expectations, we’ve wasted a roster spot and luxury tax on a non-rotation player.

Sounds like the glass half empty times two!!:-))  Thanks for the "positive" spin Roy:-)

Smitty77

The kid isn’t a rotation player. He struggled with his outside shot in the G-League, and he doesn’t play NBA-level defense.

Hopefully he’s taking Yabu’s place on the roster, and we’re trading Yabu elsewhere. Wishful thinking, but a championship roster doesn’t need several projects.

I may have different expectations, but do we really expect him to be a rotation level player?  I mean he is the 15th man.  He probably won't even be active (suit up) for most games.  Has our 15th man ever been a big contributor?  I am not trying to be a jerk, I just don't know.  Bird has shown signs he can score the ball.

I guess the other argument is to get some kind of ring chaser vet who will play at the min.  Is that what you are getting at?

[saltlover]

With just a two-year deal, by the time he’s ready for that rotation place he’ll be a free agent.

Agreed. If he’s good, we will lose him. If he plays to expectations, we’ve wasted a roster spot and luxury tax on a non-rotation player.

Sounds like the glass half empty times two!!:-))  Thanks for the "positive" spin Roy:-)

Smitty77

The kid isn’t a rotation player. He struggled with his outside shot in the G-League, and he doesn’t play NBA-level defense.

Hopefully he’s taking Yabu’s place on the roster, and we’re trading Yabu elsewhere. Wishful thinking, but a championship roster doesn’t need several projects.

I’m going to be optimistic on his shooting.  He was struggling with a back injury for a lot of last year, and he did shoot almost 40% in December.  Given his small sample size, his numbers could have been suppressed by poor shooting from his injury.  If that December number is closer to his true ability, he could be an average shooter.

There’s still no room for him at the inn, however, as even the most optimistic probably can’t move him ahead of about the 12th spot in the rotation.  If we’re not going to benefit from his long-term development, it seems silly to pay the cost.

[Surferdad]

With just a two-year deal, by the time he’s ready for that rotation place he’ll be a free agent.

Agreed. If he’s good, we will lose him. If he plays to expectations, we’ve wasted a roster spot and luxury tax on a non-rotation player.

Sounds like the glass half empty times two!!:-))  Thanks for the "positive" spin Roy:-)

Smitty77

The kid isn’t a rotation player. He struggled with his outside shot in the G-League, and he doesn’t play NBA-level defense.

Hopefully he’s taking Yabu’s place on the roster, and we’re trading Yabu elsewhere. Wishful thinking, but a championship roster doesn’t need several projects.

I just don’t see the purpose of being a debbie-downer right out of the gate. The roster spot is available and it’s not a lot of money.  This gives the option of including him in trades (like with the recent Nader trade to save cap space) or even having him step in if there’s an injury.  We saw that come in handy with Semi last year. 

[smokeablount]

With just a two-year deal, by the time he’s ready for that rotation place he’ll be a free agent.

Agreed. If he’s good, we will lose him. If he plays to expectations, we’ve wasted a roster spot and luxury tax on a non-rotation player.

Sounds like the glass half empty times two!!:-))  Thanks for the "positive" spin Roy:-)

Smitty77

The kid isn’t a rotation player. He struggled with his outside shot in the G-League, and he doesn’t play NBA-level defense.

Hopefully he’s taking Yabu’s place on the roster, and we’re trading Yabu elsewhere. Wishful thinking, but a championship roster doesn’t need several projects.

Those are confident assertions that I disagree with.

As a spot-up shooter and defender, I think he can be an NBA rotation player. He definitely could be E'twan Moore. I'm much more bullish on his defense than you are. What I saw in both the summer league and last year during the end of the season was a guy with the quickness, anticipation, and desire to play really good on-ball defense. As CBS was coaching him, he was making ball-handlers work with his length and quickness. Some comments by CBS make it clear that he think Bird is an NBA defensive talent.

On top of that, on offense he plays off-ball on the baseline with great feel and timing on his cuts.

Also, we have the full 15 player roster right now. Why would we trade anyone away unless it's to get under the luxury tax? Trading Yabu doesn't get us under the luxury tax, and we are unlikely to get comparable value back. Also, it's not like this team has a real "need" that trading Yabu can fill.

I'd trade Yabu if it got us under the tax, or to go after a top buyout guy... but not for no reason.

Is salary dumping Morris really the only simple way to get under the tax this year?

[saltlover]

With just a two-year deal, by the time he’s ready for that rotation place he’ll be a free agent.

Agreed. If he’s good, we will lose him. If he plays to expectations, we’ve wasted a roster spot and luxury tax on a non-rotation player.

Sounds like the glass half empty times two!!:-))  Thanks for the "positive" spin Roy:-)

Smitty77

The kid isn’t a rotation player. He struggled with his outside shot in the G-League, and he doesn’t play NBA-level defense.

Hopefully he’s taking Yabu’s place on the roster, and we’re trading Yabu elsewhere. Wishful thinking, but a championship roster doesn’t need several projects.

Those are confident assertions that I disagree with.

As a spot-up shooter and defender, I think he can be an NBA rotation player. He definitely could be E'twan Moore. I'm much more bullish on his defense than you are. What I saw in both the summer league and last year during the end of the season was a guy with the quickness, anticipation, and desire to play really good on-ball defense. As CBS was coaching him, he was making ball-handlers work with his length and quickness. Some comments by CBS make it clear that he think Bird is an NBA defensive talent.

On top of that, on offense he plays off-ball on the baseline with great feel and timing on his cuts.

Also, we have the full 15 player roster right now. Why would we trade anyone away unless it's to get under the luxury tax? Trading Yabu doesn't get us under the luxury tax, and we are unlikely to get comparable value back. Also, it's not like this team has a real "need" that trading Yabu can fill.

I'd trade Yabu if it got us under the tax, or to go after a top buyout guy... but not for no reason.

Is salary dumping Morris really the only simple way to get under the tax this year?

That or moving both Yabu and Bird/Wanamaker at the deadline and waiting a little bit to sign free agents to fill the roster back from 13.  (Yabu could be moved earlier.)

We can take back a small salary in a Morris trade. I’m targeting Tyler Lydon from Denver.

Also we will have more wiggle room if Smart is fat.

[konkmv]

Morris and yabu will be traded at some point

[smokeablount]

With just a two-year deal, by the time he’s ready for that rotation place he’ll be a free agent.

Agreed. If he’s good, we will lose him. If he plays to expectations, we’ve wasted a roster spot and luxury tax on a non-rotation player.

Sounds like the glass half empty times two!!:-))  Thanks for the "positive" spin Roy:-)

Smitty77

The kid isn’t a rotation player. He struggled with his outside shot in the G-League, and he doesn’t play NBA-level defense.

Hopefully he’s taking Yabu’s place on the roster, and we’re trading Yabu elsewhere. Wishful thinking, but a championship roster doesn’t need several projects.

Those are confident assertions that I disagree with.

As a spot-up shooter and defender, I think he can be an NBA rotation player. He definitely could be E'twan Moore. I'm much more bullish on his defense than you are. What I saw in both the summer league and last year during the end of the season was a guy with the quickness, anticipation, and desire to play really good on-ball defense. As CBS was coaching him, he was making ball-handlers work with his length and quickness. Some comments by CBS make it clear that he think Bird is an NBA defensive talent.

On top of that, on offense he plays off-ball on the baseline with great feel and timing on his cuts.

Also, we have the full 15 player roster right now. Why would we trade anyone away unless it's to get under the luxury tax? Trading Yabu doesn't get us under the luxury tax, and we are unlikely to get comparable value back. Also, it's not like this team has a real "need" that trading Yabu can fill.

I'd trade Yabu if it got us under the tax, or to go after a top buyout guy... but not for no reason.

Is salary dumping Morris really the only simple way to get under the tax this year?

That or moving both Yabu and Bird/Wanamaker at the deadline and waiting a little bit to sign free agents to fill the roster back from 13.  (Yabu could be moved earlier.)

We can take back a small salary in a Morris trade. I’m targeting Tyler Lydon from Denver.

Also we will have more wiggle room if Smart is fat.

Do you think Denver would make that deal?  I'll look into Lydon at home but I don't know anything about him at the moment.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

With just a two-year deal, by the time he’s ready for that rotation place he’ll be a free agent.

Agreed. If he’s good, we will lose him. If he plays to expectations, we’ve wasted a roster spot and luxury tax on a non-rotation player.

Sounds like the glass half empty times two!!:-))  Thanks for the "positive" spin Roy:-)

Smitty77

The kid isn’t a rotation player. He struggled with his outside shot in the G-League, and he doesn’t play NBA-level defense.

Hopefully he’s taking Yabu’s place on the roster, and we’re trading Yabu elsewhere. Wishful thinking, but a championship roster doesn’t need several projects.

Those are confident assertions that I disagree with.

As a spot-up shooter and defender, I think he can be an NBA rotation player. He definitely could be E'twan Moore. I'm much more bullish on his defense than you are. What I saw in both the summer league and last year during the end of the season was a guy with the quickness, anticipation, and desire to play really good on-ball defense. As CBS was coaching him, he was making ball-handlers work with his length and quickness. Some comments by CBS make it clear that he think Bird is an NBA defensive talent.

On top of that, on offense he plays off-ball on the baseline with great feel and timing on his cuts.

Also, we have the full 15 player roster right now. Why would we trade anyone away unless it's to get under the luxury tax? Trading Yabu doesn't get us under the luxury tax, and we are unlikely to get comparable value back. Also, it's not like this team has a real "need" that trading Yabu can fill.

I'd trade Yabu if it got us under the tax, or to go after a top buyout guy... but not for no reason.

Is salary dumping Morris really the only simple way to get under the tax this year?

Or you could trade Rozier.

[saltlover]

With just a two-year deal, by the time he’s ready for that rotation place he’ll be a free agent.

Agreed. If he’s good, we will lose him. If he plays to expectations, we’ve wasted a roster spot and luxury tax on a non-rotation player.

Sounds like the glass half empty times two!!:-))  Thanks for the "positive" spin Roy:-)

Smitty77

The kid isn’t a rotation player. He struggled with his outside shot in the G-League, and he doesn’t play NBA-level defense.

Hopefully he’s taking Yabu’s place on the roster, and we’re trading Yabu elsewhere. Wishful thinking, but a championship roster doesn’t need several projects.

Those are confident assertions that I disagree with.

As a spot-up shooter and defender, I think he can be an NBA rotation player. He definitely could be E'twan Moore. I'm much more bullish on his defense than you are. What I saw in both the summer league and last year during the end of the season was a guy with the quickness, anticipation, and desire to play really good on-ball defense. As CBS was coaching him, he was making ball-handlers work with his length and quickness. Some comments by CBS make it clear that he think Bird is an NBA defensive talent.

On top of that, on offense he plays off-ball on the baseline with great feel and timing on his cuts.

Also, we have the full 15 player roster right now. Why would we trade anyone away unless it's to get under the luxury tax? Trading Yabu doesn't get us under the luxury tax, and we are unlikely to get comparable value back. Also, it's not like this team has a real "need" that trading Yabu can fill.

I'd trade Yabu if it got us under the tax, or to go after a top buyout guy... but not for no reason.

Is salary dumping Morris really the only simple way to get under the tax this year?

That or moving both Yabu and Bird/Wanamaker at the deadline and waiting a little bit to sign free agents to fill the roster back from 13.  (Yabu could be moved earlier.)

We can take back a small salary in a Morris trade. I’m targeting Tyler Lydon from Denver.

Also we will have more wiggle room if Smart is fat.

Do you think Denver would make that deal?  I'll look into Lydon at home but I don't know anything about him at the moment.

I don’t know.  He was a late 1st in 2017 who looked okay but not great in time in the G league, but also tore a meniscus and missed a lot of time.  He’s a PF from Syracuse who’s upside feels like Channing Frye.  Potentially useful, but probably not ready for a significant role yet.  I think Morris would be a clear upgrade for them, and it keeps them under the tax.  It feels fair to me because I’m not sure I love it from the Celtics’ side.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

With just a two-year deal, by the time he’s ready for that rotation place he’ll be a free agent.

Agreed. If he’s good, we will lose him. If he plays to expectations, we’ve wasted a roster spot and luxury tax on a non-rotation player.

Sounds like the glass half empty times two!!:-))  Thanks for the "positive" spin Roy:-)

Smitty77

The kid isn’t a rotation player. He struggled with his outside shot in the G-League, and he doesn’t play NBA-level defense.

Hopefully he’s taking Yabu’s place on the roster, and we’re trading Yabu elsewhere. Wishful thinking, but a championship roster doesn’t need several projects.

Those are confident assertions that I disagree with.

As a spot-up shooter and defender, I think he can be an NBA rotation player. He definitely could be E'twan Moore. I'm much more bullish on his defense than you are. What I saw in both the summer league and last year during the end of the season was a guy with the quickness, anticipation, and desire to play really good on-ball defense. As CBS was coaching him, he was making ball-handlers work with his length and quickness. Some comments by CBS make it clear that he think Bird is an NBA defensive talent.

On top of that, on offense he plays off-ball on the baseline with great feel and timing on his cuts.

Also, we have the full 15 player roster right now. Why would we trade anyone away unless it's to get under the luxury tax? Trading Yabu doesn't get us under the luxury tax, and we are unlikely to get comparable value back. Also, it's not like this team has a real "need" that trading Yabu can fill.

I'd trade Yabu if it got us under the tax, or to go after a top buyout guy... but not for no reason.

Is salary dumping Morris really the only simple way to get under the tax this year?

That or moving both Yabu and Bird/Wanamaker at the deadline and waiting a little bit to sign free agents to fill the roster back from 13.  (Yabu could be moved earlier.)

We can take back a small salary in a Morris trade. I’m targeting Tyler Lydon from Denver.

Also we will have more wiggle room if Smart is fat.

Do you think Denver would make that deal?  I'll look into Lydon at home but I don't know anything about him at the moment.

I don’t know.  He was a late 1st in 2017 who looked okay but not great in time in the G league, but also tore a meniscus and missed a lot of time.  He’s a PF from Syracuse who’s upside feels like Channing Frye.  Potentially useful, but probably not ready for a significant role yet.  I think Morris would be a clear upgrade for them, and it keeps them under the tax.  It feels fair to me because I’m not sure I love it from the Celtics’ side.

Normally, a good indication of whether the trade is fair is whether, as a fan, you are "meh" on the return.

[smokeablount]

With just a two-year deal, by the time he’s ready for that rotation place he’ll be a free agent.

Agreed. If he’s good, we will lose him. If he plays to expectations, we’ve wasted a roster spot and luxury tax on a non-rotation player.

Sounds like the glass half empty times two!!:-))  Thanks for the "positive" spin Roy:-)

Smitty77

The kid isn’t a rotation player. He struggled with his outside shot in the G-League, and he doesn’t play NBA-level defense.

Hopefully he’s taking Yabu’s place on the roster, and we’re trading Yabu elsewhere. Wishful thinking, but a championship roster doesn’t need several projects.

Those are confident assertions that I disagree with.

As a spot-up shooter and defender, I think he can be an NBA rotation player. He definitely could be E'twan Moore. I'm much more bullish on his defense than you are. What I saw in both the summer league and last year during the end of the season was a guy with the quickness, anticipation, and desire to play really good on-ball defense. As CBS was coaching him, he was making ball-handlers work with his length and quickness. Some comments by CBS make it clear that he think Bird is an NBA defensive talent.

On top of that, on offense he plays off-ball on the baseline with great feel and timing on his cuts.

Also, we have the full 15 player roster right now. Why would we trade anyone away unless it's to get under the luxury tax? Trading Yabu doesn't get us under the luxury tax, and we are unlikely to get comparable value back. Also, it's not like this team has a real "need" that trading Yabu can fill.

I'd trade Yabu if it got us under the tax, or to go after a top buyout guy... but not for no reason.

Is salary dumping Morris really the only simple way to get under the tax this year?

That or moving both Yabu and Bird/Wanamaker at the deadline and waiting a little bit to sign free agents to fill the roster back from 13.  (Yabu could be moved earlier.)

We can take back a small salary in a Morris trade. I’m targeting Tyler Lydon from Denver.

Also we will have more wiggle room if Smart is fat.

Do you think Denver would make that deal?  I'll look into Lydon at home but I don't know anything about him at the moment.

I don’t know.  He was a late 1st in 2017 who looked okay but not great in time in the G league, but also tore a meniscus and missed a lot of time.  He’s a PF from Syracuse who’s upside feels like Channing Frye.  Potentially useful, but probably not ready for a significant role yet.  I think Morris would be a clear upgrade for them, and it keeps them under the tax.  It feels fair to me because I’m not sure I love it from the Celtics’ side.

Normally, a good indication of whether the trade is fair is whether, as a fan, you are "meh" on the return.

Agreed.  But he actually was an interesting prospect coming out statistically, which was only a college season ago.  He came out as a soph who put up 13-8.5-2 with 1 steal + 1.5 blocks.

ACC Rankings

-He was 8th and 12th in TS% in his 2 years.
-He was 3rd in Defensive Win Shares as a frosh.
-He shot 40% from 3 for his career, on 3.5 attempts per game.
-13th / 17th / 11th in Win Shares as a soph (Off / Def / Total).

-He was 10th in Off Rating as a soph + 6th in Def Rating as a frosh.
-He was 6th in total rebounds per game as a soph.
-He was 4th and 8th in total block % in his 2 years.
-He shot just under 81% from the FT line and had 3.5 attempts as a soph.

Since he's only 22 now, if DA thinks he still has upside, he could be a sneaky pickup.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/tyler-lydon-1.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/acc/2017-leaders.html

EDIT - As a soph, dropping 13.5-8.5-2 + shooting 47-40-83, in the ACC he ranked:

-10th in Offensive Rating
-11th in Win Shares
-12th in Box Plus Minus
-6th in Total Rebounds per Game
-6th in Blocks Per Game
-12th in TS%

He's top 6-12 in all these things and probably more.  The ACC has 15 teams.

[Alleyoopster]

With just a two-year deal, by the time he’s ready for that rotation place he’ll be a free agent.

Agreed. If he’s good, we will lose him. If he plays to expectations, we’ve wasted a roster spot and luxury tax on a non-rotation player.

Sounds like the glass half empty times two!!:-))  Thanks for the "positive" spin Roy:-)

Smitty77

The kid isn’t a rotation player. He struggled with his outside shot in the G-League, and he doesn’t play NBA-level defense.

Hopefully he’s taking Yabu’s place on the roster, and we’re trading Yabu elsewhere. Wishful thinking, but a championship roster doesn’t need several projects.

tp Can't understand the talk of wanting a four year contract. He's a borderline 15th player on an NBA team or G-League starter. I hope Danny leaves an empty roster spot to sign an aging star mid-season. 

[saltlover]

With just a two-year deal, by the time he’s ready for that rotation place he’ll be a free agent.

Agreed. If he’s good, we will lose him. If he plays to expectations, we’ve wasted a roster spot and luxury tax on a non-rotation player.

Sounds like the glass half empty times two!!:-))  Thanks for the "positive" spin Roy:-)

Smitty77

The kid isn’t a rotation player. He struggled with his outside shot in the G-League, and he doesn’t play NBA-level defense.

Hopefully he’s taking Yabu’s place on the roster, and we’re trading Yabu elsewhere. Wishful thinking, but a championship roster doesn’t need several projects.

tp Can't understand the talk of wanting a four year contract. He's a borderline 15th player on an NBA team or G-League starter. I hope Danny leaves an empty roster spot to sign an aging star mid-season.

The reason behind wanting a 4-year contract is that since he’s merely projecting to be depth this year, it would be good to have the potential of at least a cheap, back-of-the-rotation player in the future (note: no one has suggested that all four years be guaranteed).  This contract has the worst of all worlds.  Makes it more difficult to get under the tax, uses the final roster spot on a project, and by the time that project might be ready his contract will have run out.