Author Topic: Danny holding onto the picks  (Read 2816 times)

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Re: Danny holding onto the picks
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2018, 10:21:23 AM »

Offline Monkhouse

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I may be in the minority but I don’t see our draft pick situation nearly as impressive as the Nets situation.

I do believe the Kings pick will be a good one. I can’t expect them to win the lottery, but I don’t think they will be good enough to stay out of the too 7 or so.

The Clippers pick? That’s not conveying as a first, they are missing the playoffs.

The Grizzlies pick? Meh. I think their is a good chance they will either hold onto it or it will become the 12-14 pick, which is hardly anything to write home about. Hopefully they blow it up and keep trading off their guys and it keeps rolling, but doubt it.

Our own picks project 25+ for awhile, which are arguably worse than an early second, all things considered.


I wouldn’t mind sending off any or all of those picks. They have to potential to hit (Kings @ 2, Grizz @ 9, Clippers @ 15)... or we could miss on them.

I wouldn’t just give them away. But I wouldn’t be opposed to moving them.
Yeah, I don’t think you’re in the minority.  I think most understand that most of those picks are not great assets in and if themselves.  These question is, what does Danny do if they all convey?  I mean, he just may have to given some of them away.
If they all convey I assume Danny's preference would be to trade at least one of them for a future pick, but since this draft is supposedly weak I'm not sure he can get that done. If they can't get value for any of the four I assume they would select at least one draft and stash. Although the C's are going to have a lot of free agents next year so they could conceivably just bring in four rookies.

This draft is not "weak". Its just as strong as 2018. It's just a wing draft, not  big or PG draft

This is not the prevailing notion I’ve heard.

From Sporting News:
Quote
As of now, the 2019 class looks a bit disappointing with most of the top prospects facing some combination of concerns about their long-term upside, approach to the game or actual skill set

From Sports Illustrated:
Quote
there’s a lack of surefire star talent at this stage.

From SB Nation:
Quote
A lot of analysts aren’t high on this class of incoming college freshmen

Now the draft is, as you point out, a wing draft, which means that in a league which is trending towards 3-4 winglike players in most lineups, there will probably be some useful talent available, and may make picks tradable.  And with the Celtics having just drafted a big and likely having their top two PG spots locked up for years beginning next season, the Celtics can pick wings and not worry about it too much.  But based on early reports, it seems pretty weak, and I would worry of a repeat of the 2014 and 2015 drafts.

That is the notion that I have heard too. With the high school rule eligibility coming into play, it gives teams more flexibility to go after younger players with high upside/high reward and low risk prospects.

That being said, I think this draft has some very special talented wing prospects. I don't think it will ever be as strong as last year, or 2017, but... There is some prospects that have huge upside, but huge bust probability.

Barrett, Reddish, Sekou, Nasir Little, Jaylen Hoard, Bassey, Quentin Grimes are a select few of names that I think will have long and great careers.
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Re: Danny holding onto the picks
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2018, 10:31:32 AM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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I could see the Memphis pick coming in around 10th. It might be worse, but I think they'll have a hard time making the playoffs.

Philly just parlayed their 10th pick into the 17th pick and Miami's 2021 unprotected 1st. Ainge could flip it forward like that since our well of other teams' draft picks is about to run dry.

 Maybe Dumboya can be a stretch 4? Young players need playing time, and unless we have a bunch of guys walk or get traded, we won't have any to spare.

The thing that sucks about this draft is most of the top prospects are wings, and we're already stacked at that position. I would be surprised if the SAC pick isn't packaged in a big trade next year.


Re: Danny holding onto the picks
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2018, 10:41:22 AM »

Offline smokeablount

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I could see the Memphis pick coming in around 10th. It might be worse, but I think they'll have a hard time making the playoffs.

Philly just parlayed their 10th pick into the 17th pick and Miami's 2021 unprotected 1st. Ainge could flip it forward like that since our well of other teams' draft picks is about to run dry.

 Maybe Dumboya can be a stretch 4? Young players need playing time, and unless we have a bunch of guys walk or get traded, we won't have any to spare.

The thing that sucks about this draft is most of the top prospects are wings, and we're already stacked at that position. I would be surprised if the SAC pick isn't packaged in a big trade next year.

Yeah, hoping for a pick between #2-4, then to draft BPA or consolidate assets and trade it.
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Re: Danny holding onto the picks
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2018, 11:32:15 AM »

Offline saltlover

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I could see the Memphis pick coming in around 10th. It might be worse, but I think they'll have a hard time making the playoffs.

Philly just parlayed their 10th pick into the 17th pick and Miami's 2021 unprotected 1st. Ainge could flip it forward like that since our well of other teams' draft picks is about to run dry.

 Maybe Dumboya can be a stretch 4? Young players need playing time, and unless we have a bunch of guys walk or get traded, we won't have any to spare.

The thing that sucks about this draft is most of the top prospects are wings, and we're already stacked at that position. I would be surprised if the SAC pick isn't packaged in a big trade next year.

We’ll have 2-3 rotation players walk (depending how in the rotation Theis is), so there will be earnable minutes.  If all four picks conveyed and we had to make them, it could work, with the lesser pick going to Maine for the year to develop.  It wouldn’t be ideal, but we won’t necessarily be stuck having to play too many rookies and also not having the minutes.

Re: Danny holding onto the picks
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2018, 11:37:47 AM »

Offline JHTruth

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I may be in the minority but I don’t see our draft pick situation nearly as impressive as the Nets situation.

I do believe the Kings pick will be a good one. I can’t expect them to win the lottery, but I don’t think they will be good enough to stay out of the too 7 or so.

The Clippers pick? That’s not conveying as a first, they are missing the playoffs.

The Grizzlies pick? Meh. I think their is a good chance they will either hold onto it or it will become the 12-14 pick, which is hardly anything to write home about. Hopefully they blow it up and keep trading off their guys and it keeps rolling, but doubt it.

Our own picks project 25+ for awhile, which are arguably worse than an early second, all things considered.


I wouldn’t mind sending off any or all of those picks. They have to potential to hit (Kings @ 2, Grizz @ 9, Clippers @ 15)... or we could miss on them.

I wouldn’t just give them away. But I wouldn’t be opposed to moving them.
Yeah, I don’t think you’re in the minority.  I think most understand that most of those picks are not great assets in and if themselves.  These question is, what does Danny do if they all convey?  I mean, he just may have to given some of them away.
If they all convey I assume Danny's preference would be to trade at least one of them for a future pick, but since this draft is supposedly weak I'm not sure he can get that done. If they can't get value for any of the four I assume they would select at least one draft and stash. Although the C's are going to have a lot of free agents next year so they could conceivably just bring in four rookies.

This draft is not "weak". Its just as strong as 2018. It's just a wing draft, not  big or PG draft

I mean, the consensus right now is that it's weaker than the past 2 drafts.  Given the media's propensity to hype up every draft as 'the best/deepest in awhile' it stands out to me that this one is getting underhyped.  But that doesn't mean the 'experts' are right.  Many are idiots.

Every draft is "weak" at this point generally in the media unless there's an obvious LeBron-like No.1. How can we possibly know the relative strength/weakness of this draft before the college season even begins? At this point last year Doncic was everyone's No 1 and Ayton was like 3 or 4.

2017 draft actually looks pretty weak in hindsight with Tatum about the only Top 4 pick looking good about now.

If I were Danny, of course I'm not, the C's have no immediate need at any position, and with no obvious upgrades available anywhere, I would draft one of the elite swing prospects as a long-term running mate next to Tatum and Brown and then package the rest of the picks to go get some solid win-now rotation guys. You would have maybe another two year window with Kyrie/Hayward/Horford before you turn over the keys to the young core and start that window.

Just my thoughts but The C's are a bit of a victim of their own success here..

Re: Danny holding onto the picks
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2018, 11:56:22 AM »

Offline JHTruth

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I could see the Memphis pick coming in around 10th. It might be worse, but I think they'll have a hard time making the playoffs.

Philly just parlayed their 10th pick into the 17th pick and Miami's 2021 unprotected 1st. Ainge could flip it forward like that since our well of other teams' draft picks is about to run dry.

 Maybe Dumboya can be a stretch 4? Young players need playing time, and unless we have a bunch of guys walk or get traded, we won't have any to spare.

The thing that sucks about this draft is most of the top prospects are wings, and we're already stacked at that position. I would be surprised if the SAC pick isn't packaged in a big trade next year.

Big trade involving who? We're pretty stacked everywhere with no real need. Unless you're getting back AD or KAT, a "big trade" would probably be a lateral move at best..

Re: Danny holding onto the picks
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2018, 12:25:46 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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I may be in the minority but I don’t see our draft pick situation nearly as impressive as the Nets situation.

I do believe the Kings pick will be a good one. I can’t expect them to win the lottery, but I don’t think they will be good enough to stay out of the too 7 or so.

The Clippers pick? That’s not conveying as a first, they are missing the playoffs.

The Grizzlies pick? Meh. I think their is a good chance they will either hold onto it or it will become the 12-14 pick, which is hardly anything to write home about. Hopefully they blow it up and keep trading off their guys and it keeps rolling, but doubt it.

Our own picks project 25+ for awhile, which are arguably worse than an early second, all things considered.


I wouldn’t mind sending off any or all of those picks. They have to potential to hit (Kings @ 2, Grizz @ 9, Clippers @ 15)... or we could miss on them.

I wouldn’t just give them away. But I wouldn’t be opposed to moving them.
Yeah, I don’t think you’re in the minority.  I think most understand that most of those picks are not great assets in and if themselves.  These question is, what does Danny do if they all convey?  I mean, he just may have to given some of them away.
If they all convey I assume Danny's preference would be to trade at least one of them for a future pick, but since this draft is supposedly weak I'm not sure he can get that done. If they can't get value for any of the four I assume they would select at least one draft and stash. Although the C's are going to have a lot of free agents next year so they could conceivably just bring in four rookies.

This draft is not "weak". Its just as strong as 2018. It's just a wing draft, not  big or PG draft

I mean, the consensus right now is that it's weaker than the past 2 drafts.  Given the media's propensity to hype up every draft as 'the best/deepest in awhile' it stands out to me that this one is getting underhyped.  But that doesn't mean the 'experts' are right.  Many are idiots.

Every draft is "weak" at this point generally in the media unless there's an obvious LeBron-like No.1. How can we possibly know the relative strength/weakness of this draft before the college season even begins? At this point last year Doncic was everyone's No 1 and Ayton was like 3 or 4.

2017 draft actually looks pretty weak in hindsight with Tatum about the only Top 4 pick looking good about now.

If I were Danny, of course I'm not, the C's have no immediate need at any position, and with no obvious upgrades available anywhere, I would draft one of the elite swing prospects as a long-term running mate next to Tatum and Brown and then package the rest of the picks to go get some solid win-now rotation guys. You would have maybe another two year window with Kyrie/Hayward/Horford before you turn over the keys to the young core and start that window.

Just my thoughts but The C's are a bit of a victim of their own success here..

I’m not saying the word on the street is correct, or that it won’t change, but not every draft is ‘weak’ at this time. The last 2 drafts were hyped to all hell. This is considered a down draft right now.

Barrett is considered the top prospect, flanked by Little and Reddish, but all 3 have some warts. Zion & Sekou have great upside but seem very boom/bust. This class lost Bagley, who was the clear cut #1 prospect.

Once the season starts, we could see a fairly deep lottery C and SG crop emerge and give this draft good depth, or we could see the Big Wing 3 exceed expectations. We don’t know much until the college season starts- it’ll take development time too. But it’s considered a weak draft.

Having said that, i don’t care that we have wings for days, I’d be ecstatic to land Reddish or Little.  It’s not like there isn’t all star talent, maybe even a superstar.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 12:31:10 PM by smokeablount »
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Re: Danny holding onto the picks
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2018, 12:33:30 PM »

Offline tonydelk

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I may be in the minority but I don’t see our draft pick situation nearly as impressive as the Nets situation.

I do believe the Kings pick will be a good one. I can’t expect them to win the lottery, but I don’t think they will be good enough to stay out of the too 7 or so.

The Clippers pick? That’s not conveying as a first, they are missing the playoffs.

The Grizzlies pick? Meh. I think their is a good chance they will either hold onto it or it will become the 12-14 pick, which is hardly anything to write home about. Hopefully they blow it up and keep trading off their guys and it keeps rolling, but doubt it.

Our own picks project 25+ for awhile, which are arguably worse than an early second, all things considered.


I wouldn’t mind sending off any or all of those picks. They have to potential to hit (Kings @ 2, Grizz @ 9, Clippers @ 15)... or we could miss on them.

I wouldn’t just give them away. But I wouldn’t be opposed to moving them.
Yeah, I don’t think you’re in the minority.  I think most understand that most of those picks are not great assets in and if themselves.  These question is, what does Danny do if they all convey?  I mean, he just may have to given some of them away.
If they all convey I assume Danny's preference would be to trade at least one of them for a future pick, but since this draft is supposedly weak I'm not sure he can get that done. If they can't get value for any of the four I assume they would select at least one draft and stash. Although the C's are going to have a lot of free agents next year so they could conceivably just bring in four rookies.

This draft is not "weak". Its just as strong as 2018. It's just a wing draft, not  big or PG draft

I mean, the consensus right now is that it's weaker than the past 2 drafts.  Given the media's propensity to hype up every draft as 'the best/deepest in awhile' it stands out to me that this one is getting underhyped.  But that doesn't mean the 'experts' are right.  Many are idiots.

Every draft is "weak" at this point generally in the media unless there's an obvious LeBron-like No.1. How can we possibly know the relative strength/weakness of this draft before the college season even begins? At this point last year Doncic was everyone's No 1 and Ayton was like 3 or 4.

2017 draft actually looks pretty weak in hindsight with Tatum about the only Top 4 pick looking good about now.

If I were Danny, of course I'm not, the C's have no immediate need at any position, and with no obvious upgrades available anywhere, I would draft one of the elite swing prospects as a long-term running mate next to Tatum and Brown and then package the rest of the picks to go get some solid win-now rotation guys. You would have maybe another two year window with Kyrie/Hayward/Horford before you turn over the keys to the young core and start that window.

Just my thoughts but The C's are a bit of a victim of their own success here..

I’m not saying the word on the street is correct, or that it won’t change, but not every draft is ‘weak’ at this time. The last 2 drafts were hyped to all hell. This is considered a down draft right now.

Barrett is considered the top prospect, flanked by Little and Reddish, but all 3 have some warts. Zion & Sekou have great upside but seem very boom/bust. This class lost Bagley, who was the clear cut #1 prospect.

Once the season starts, we could see a fairly deep lottery C and SG crop emerge and give this draft good depth, or we could see the Big Wing 3 exceed expectations. We don’t know much until the college season starts- it’ll take development time too. But it’s considered a weak draft.

Having said that, i don’t care that we have wings for days, I’d be ecstatic to land Reddish or Little.  It’s not like there isn’t all star talent, maybe even a superstar.

TP +1 Very well said.  The Tatum draft was supposed to be good with depth but short on start talent.  That draft has become one of the strongest in years.  Next year seems weak but players always step up and come out of no where.  Let's see what happens the 1st quarter of the NCAA season and if anyone from overseas pops before this draft is judged.

Re: Danny holding onto the picks
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2018, 12:34:10 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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He did offer the picks for Kahwi, reportedly.

But since that offer was turned down it would benefit him to just sit back and wait to see how good the picks become.  If the Kings have a bad start to the season, those picks become even more valuable, possibly top 5.  If the Grizzlies are relatively bad, that could also turn into a top 10 pick.

So the crazy thing is that the Celtics will definitely compete for the Eastern Conference title this year and might even make the finals and on top of that could have TWO top 10 picks in the upcoming draft.  Rich get richer?!

At that point the picks become gold and can be moved if a real star, IE Anthony Davis finally comes available.

Re: Danny holding onto the picks
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2018, 12:35:18 PM »

Offline tonydelk

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One thing we can make bank on, we're going to see a big trade some time in the next year or two. We have too many high paid players and potential high picks.

We could end up with 4 1st rounders next year, and we all know he isn't making those picks.

We do have the potential for 4 but as things stand I could see the C's just with the Sac pick and their owns.  I can't see the Clips pick convey this year and Memphis is a wild card.  I can see that pick also being top 5 which would not change hands until 2020. 

Re: Danny holding onto the picks
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2018, 12:51:06 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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2017 draft actually looks pretty weak in hindsight with Tatum about the only Top 4 pick looking good about now.

If you frame it that way and hope like hell no one digs deeper, then sure. 

I’ll frame it this way:

-The 2017 draft rookie 1st team had 4 players over 15 points (Tatum at 13.9). That’s the first time that’s happened since 1997, for the famed 1996 class with AI, Kobe, Toine, Marbury, Camby.

Looking at the rookie 1st team from 2018 vs the Lebron/Wade/Bosh/Carmelo rookie team of 2004:

-2018 scored 81.5 ppg vs 81.6 ppg for 2004, so basically the exact same.
-2018 grabbed 30.6 reb vs 26.4 for 2004.
-2018 dished 16.5 assists vs 20.5 for 2004 (no Lonzo to balance 5th man Hinrich’s 6.8 APG)

So, considering the best rookies from last year are statistically holding their ground to a top 3 all time draft class at similar corresponding ages tells me more than bad GMs picking people wrong at #1-2 last year.

Also, considering the 2017 draft set a record for 18 and 19 year old freshman being drafted in the lottery, I’d say looking back on these guys one year later at ages 19 and 20 is a tad early.

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Re: Danny holding onto the picks
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2018, 01:10:47 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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2017 draft actually looks pretty weak in hindsight with Tatum about the only Top 4 pick looking good about now.

If you frame it that way and hope like hell no one digs deeper, then sure. 

I’ll frame it this way:

-The 2017 draft rookie 1st team had 4 players over 15 points (Tatum at 13.9). That’s the first time that’s happened since 1997, for the famed 1996 class with AI, Kobe, Toine, Marbury, Camby.

Looking at the rookie 1st team from 2018 vs the Lebron/Wade/Bosh/Carmelo rookie team of 2004:

-2018 scored 81.5 ppg vs 81.6 ppg for 2004, so basically the exact same.
-2018 grabbed 30.6 reb vs 26.4 for 2004.
-2018 dished 16.5 assists vs 20.5 for 2004 (no Lonzo to balance 5th man Hinrich’s 6.8 APG)

So, considering the best rookies from last year are statistically holding their ground to a top 3 all time draft class at similar corresponding ages tells me more than bad GMs picking people wrong at #1-2 last year.

Also, considering the 2017 draft set a record for 18 and 19 year old freshman being drafted in the lottery, I’d say looking back on these guys one year later at ages 19 and 20 is a tad early.

The top of the 2017 draft looks terrible (Josh Jackson also appears to be busting), but there were was unprecedented finds later in the draft. Kuzma at 27 and Donovan at 13 are huge wins. But neither were even on the radar of draft analysts at this point in 2016. So in hindsight it looks like a good draft, but not because of the players everyone thought were going to be good.

Re: Danny holding onto the picks
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2018, 01:26:14 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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Plan A is probably making a big trade for a Davis type. But fácil inglés that we'll use the picks, they provide cheap cost control led talent which is crítical to a tax team. Look at our free agent list, Irving, Rozier, Morris, Theis, Baynes. That five rotation guys. Assuming we resign Irving and Rob Will progress  enough to fill Theis' minutes we may still need to replace three rotation spots more likely two as Baynes probably takes his player option. With the clips pick unlikely to convey  having fill 2-4 rotation spots and having three firsts is a good place to be.

Re: Danny holding onto the picks
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2018, 01:40:38 PM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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I would not say holding on just waiting to pounce. Holding on to them benefit us on losing Kyrie for nothing.
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