Author Topic: 3rd player angling to join Kyrie and Butler in 2019  (Read 4189 times)

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Re: 3rd player angling to join Kyrie and Butler in 2019
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2018, 08:16:59 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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If Kyrie leaves, he’s an idiot.  Hayward + Tatum + Brown + Horford + Smart is better than Butler + “very accomplished “ player
So deciding to play for a worse team automatically makes you an idiot? You must already think he's an idiot after demanding a trade from Cleveland.

Idiot, coward, values brand over winning. Whatever.

And yes, I think Kyrie forcing his way out of Cleveland was a pretty weak move, as is Kyrie’s current refusal to kill rumors.  He’s on a great team, with a ton of endorsements on a historic franchise.  He’s entitled to give that all up for whatever reason he wants, but I think it would be a idiotic decision.


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Re: 3rd player angling to join Kyrie and Butler in 2019
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2018, 08:20:35 PM »

Offline bogg

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as is Kyrie’s current refusal to kill rumors.


Is this really any different than Ainge being willing to discuss any potential deal no matter who it involves?

Re: 3rd player angling to join Kyrie and Butler in 2019
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2018, 08:24:31 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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as is Kyrie’s current refusal to kill rumors.


Is this really any different than Ainge being willing to discuss any potential deal no matter who it involves?

Yes, it’s pretty different. Kyrie is the one who has allowed this narrative to exist, and when directly asked about his commitment to Boston, he’s intentionally vague. That’s not an endearing quality.


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Re: 3rd player angling to join Kyrie and Butler in 2019
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2018, 08:31:28 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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If Kyrie leaves Boston for New York, I'll be disappointed and probably a little miffed. I understand that New York is the media capital of the world, blah, blah, blah ... but it's the freakin' Knicks. Wretched franchise.
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Re: 3rd player angling to join Kyrie and Butler in 2019
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2018, 08:33:56 PM »

Offline bogg

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as is Kyrie’s current refusal to kill rumors.


Is this really any different than Ainge being willing to discuss any potential deal no matter who it involves?

Yes, it’s pretty different. Kyrie is the one who has allowed this narrative to exist, and when directly asked about his commitment to Boston, he’s intentionally vague. That’s not an endearing quality.

I mean, what do you think Ainge's response would be if asked "Can you guarantee [Player X] will still be one the roster in three years?"?

Re: 3rd player angling to join Kyrie and Butler in 2019
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2018, 08:42:25 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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as is Kyrie’s current refusal to kill rumors.


Is this really any different than Ainge being willing to discuss any potential deal no matter who it involves?

Yes, it’s pretty different. Kyrie is the one who has allowed this narrative to exist, and when directly asked about his commitment to Boston, he’s intentionally vague. That’s not an endearing quality.
I'm not fond of Kyrie but what is he supposed to do.  He's not going to commit to re-signing with us a year out. 

Re: 3rd player angling to join Kyrie and Butler in 2019
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2018, 08:44:56 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/nba-insider-very-accomplished-third-player-plotting-to-join-kyrie-irving--jimmy-butler-in-2019/286433956

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NBA Insider: 'Very accomplished' third player plotting to join Kyrie Irving & Jimmy Butler in 2019


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"There's a third guy that I can't mention, but yeah," Goodwill said about another 2019 free agent joining Irving and Butler. "I can't tell you (who) but I can tell you it's a very accomplished NBA player. Very accomplished."

Is there a team that can create 3 max slots? I don't think so.. Probably more baseless speculation though.

Brooklyn can pretty much clear their books if they bribe someone to take Allen Crabbe by dangling D'Angelo Russell and RHJ. Theoretically, if Butler forces his way out of Minnesota at the trade deadline that might be a package of three rotation-ready players that could appeal to Thibs. Would also get the first part of an attempted triumvirate in place early.

If DA senses KI is leaving, that package appeals to me.

Crabbe/Russell/RHJ or Jarret Allen or LaVert for Mook and Kyrie works for me.

There's a long article in the Daily Links on the front page that proffers Brooklyn OR the Knicks as a possible desired location:

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Ever since last offseason, Kyrie Irving has voiced his desire to play for a team close to his hometown of West Orange, New Jersey. Although the state once had an NBA team, they are now residing in Brooklyn, with a team filled with young talent and plenty of cap space. However, when talking about THE team from New York, it is hard to put the Nets over their neighbors across the East River. With a clear-cut All-Star at full health in Porzingis, rising stars in Ntilikina and Knox, and one of the most respected coaches around the league in Fizdale, the Knicks are once again a premier destination for free agents.

The Knicks are certainly in a good place to add a player of Irving’s caliber next year. With Enes Kanter, Ron Baker, and Emmanuel Mudiay all playing on expiring contracts, the Knicks are in line to have two max-contract slots available. This comes with the condition that the Knicks can find someone to take on Courtney Lee’s $12M, but the Knicks have reportedly already been looking for suitors. Another issue could arise with Tim Hardaway Jr’s massive four year, $71M through 2021. Of course, both of these contracts were organized by the Phil Jackson Knicks, a team that should have no correlation with what the Knicks are trying to become now. Nonetheless, as long as management can perform their duties of leaving as much money available to bring in stars, New York should be able to acquire a much needed piece to play alongside Porzingis.



The Nets, on the other hand, are just now concluding their end of the deal with the Boston Celtics centered around the Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Jason Terry trade all the way back in 2013. With their final pick being used by the Cavs to select G Collin Sexton at number eight, the Nets have learned their lesson to never break the bank for players past their prime. Now, they have a former 2nd overall pick in D’Angelo Russell, a steal from last year’s draft in Jarrett Allen, and the previously mentioned cap space that makes them contenders to sign anyone they want. Plus, something Brooklyn has that the Knicks do not is lack of long-term commitment. Jarrett Allen is the only player that is signed through the 2020-21 season, meaning the team is likely to be completely remodeled by then.

As for Kyrie, it is still unsure what he is trying to gain out of potentially leaving the best team in the Eastern Conference. Not only that, an extremely young team with a coach that can get the most out of every single player on any given night. Considering this team was one game away from playing in the NBA Finals last year without its two best players, it is hard to see why Kyrie would decide to abandon all that. Then again, this is the same man that demanded a trade from the best player of this generation, so nothing is out of the picture. If the thought of playing “with a big man like Porzingis” really entices Irving enough, it may not be long until the duo brings Madison Square Garden back to its Starks-Ewing days./quote]

https://www.isportsweb.com/2018/07/20/new-york-vs-brooklyn-the-battle-for-kyrie-irving/


Kyrie has voiced his desire to play in NY/NJ? When did this happen repeatedly, as the "article" suggests?

 I don't get why people post obscure internet blog posts as "news".

Re: 3rd player angling to join Kyrie and Butler in 2019
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2018, 08:54:27 PM »

Offline RJ87

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as is Kyrie’s current refusal to kill rumors.


Is this really any different than Ainge being willing to discuss any potential deal no matter who it involves?

Yes, it’s pretty different. Kyrie is the one who has allowed this narrative to exist, and when directly asked about his commitment to Boston, he’s intentionally vague. That’s not an endearing quality.

It's not really different though. It goes back to the one way loyalty people expect from players versus management. Ainge will never state that player X isn't available in a trade. Kyrie shouldn't be forced to state his intention to resign here if he doesn't know whether or not that'll be the case.  It's a bit silly to say he's "allowing the narrative to exist" when he's also said multiple times that he's excited about the upcoming season and is fully focused on right now, that he enjoys his teammates and admires his coach. One is more click bait-y than the other.

Kyrie will be a free agent in a year, he should keep his options open if that's what he wants to do. I don't think he's an "idiot" if he chooses to go somewhere else if that's what makes him happy. More players should do what they want, because ultimately the franchise will do the same. Look at Demar Derozan - the guy fully embraced a franchise and city, and said on multiple occasions he wanted to spend his entire career in Toronto. You know what that endearing loyalty got him? Traded.
Danny Ainge got fleeced.

Re: 3rd player angling to join Kyrie and Butler in 2019
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2018, 09:33:52 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Kyrie will be a free agent in a year, he should keep his options open if that's what he wants to do. I don't think he's an "idiot" if he chooses to go somewhere else if that's what makes him happy. More players should do what they want, because ultimately the franchise will do the same. Look at Demar Derozan - the guy fully embraced a franchise and city, and said on multiple occasions he wanted to spend his entire career in Toronto. You know what that endearing loyalty got him? Traded.

Just because players are free to choose their future doesn’t mean those choices are beyond criticism.  Leaving the Celtics for less money and a worse franchise with less of a chance at winning would make him an idiot or a loser.

Quote
I mean, what do you think Ainge's response would be if asked "Can you guarantee [Player X] will still be one the roster in three years?"?

What about one year, which is what we’re talking about.

If Danny was asked if Tatum will be in the roster in a year, I’m pretty sure he’d commit to that with a “we hope Jayson is a Celtic for a long time. He’s one of the players we intend to build around”.


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Re: 3rd player angling to join Kyrie and Butler in 2019
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2018, 09:40:23 PM »

Offline cons

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kyrie and butler isn't really on the same level as lebron and wade or kg/ pp or obviously kd + steph and co.

they're both good players but not necessarily on the level imo of these other guys, and i don't see why they'd think that the two of them on the same team would be vastly superior to the teams and teammates they already have.

Re: 3rd player angling to join Kyrie and Butler in 2019
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2018, 09:44:35 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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kyrie and butler isn't really on the same level as lebron and wade or kg/ pp or obviously kd + steph and co.

they're both good players but not necessarily on the level imo of these other guys, and i don't see why they'd think that the two of them on the same team would be vastly superior to the teams and teammates they already have.

I get it for Butler. Losing franchise, immature teammates, flawed coach, NBA Siberia.

Kyrie has the best of all worlds on the court. He won’t win more somewhere else. Of course, winning was secondary in Cleveland, so maybe he bails.


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Re: 3rd player angling to join Kyrie and Butler in 2019
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2018, 09:52:05 PM »

Offline RJ87

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Quote
Kyrie will be a free agent in a year, he should keep his options open if that's what he wants to do. I don't think he's an "idiot" if he chooses to go somewhere else if that's what makes him happy. More players should do what they want, because ultimately the franchise will do the same. Look at Demar Derozan - the guy fully embraced a franchise and city, and said on multiple occasions he wanted to spend his entire career in Toronto. You know what that endearing loyalty got him? Traded.

Just because players are free to choose their future doesn’t mean those choices are beyond criticism.  Leaving the Celtics for less money and a worse franchise with less of a chance at winning would make him an idiot or a loser.


He already has a ring, so why can't he prioritize other things? Playing near his hometown with his friends might be more intriguing to him. And as far as him being an idiot for taking less money, no one calls Kevin Durant an idiot for taking less money with the Warriors two years in a row. No one called Demar an idiot for taking less than the max on his last deal with the Raptors. Or Gordon Hayward for taking less money to come to Boston. But I guess the difference is that you've deemed their reasons for doing so acceptable.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 10:24:34 PM by RJ87 »
Danny Ainge got fleeced.

Re: 3rd player angling to join Kyrie and Butler in 2019
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2018, 09:54:54 PM »

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Quote
Kyrie will be a free agent in a year, he should keep his options open if that's what he wants to do. I don't think he's an "idiot" if he chooses to go somewhere else if that's what makes him happy. More players should do what they want, because ultimately the franchise will do the same. Look at Demar Derozan - the guy fully embraced a franchise and city, and said on multiple occasions he wanted to spend his entire career in Toronto. You know what that endearing loyalty got him? Traded.

Just because players are free to choose their future doesn’t mean those choices are beyond criticism.  Leaving the Celtics for less money and a worse franchise with less of a chance at winning would make him an idiot or a loser.

Quote
I mean, what do you think Ainge's response would be if asked "Can you guarantee [Player X] will still be one the roster in three years?"?

What about one year, which is what we’re talking about.

If Danny was asked if Tatum will be in the roster in a year, I’m pretty sure he’d commit to that with a “we hope Jayson is a Celtic for a long time. He’s one of the players we intend to build around”.
And the next week if AD becomes available and Ainge trades Tatum for him, Ainge won't get any flack about it.  On the other hand if Kyrie commits to return now but then next offseason decides he has another opportunity that he prefers, Kyrie would be a Judas.   

Re: 3rd player angling to join Kyrie and Butler in 2019
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2018, 09:55:33 PM »

Offline bogg

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What about one year, which is what we’re talking about.

If Danny was asked if Tatum will be in the roster in a year, I’m pretty sure he’d commit to that with a “we hope Jayson is a Celtic for a long time. He’s one of the players we intend to build around”.


….which isn't the same as emphatically stating that he'd never trade Tatum. Because Ainge wouldn't do something like that.

Re: 3rd player angling to join Kyrie and Butler in 2019
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2018, 09:56:57 PM »

Offline ThaPreacher

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If Kyrie leaves, he’s an idiot.  Hayward + Tatum + Brown + Horford + Smart is better than Butler + “very accomplished “ player

Perhaps, Boston should consider making a move to add a Butler.
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