Author Topic: Unbelievable- San Fran allowing Illegals to vote.  (Read 1671 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Unbelievable- San Fran allowing Illegals to vote.
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2018, 06:25:26 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • Global Moderator
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33168
  • Tommy Points: 5418
Pretty liberal guy here.....you don't get to vote unless you're a citizen. That's my stand and I don't care if it for a local, state or federal election. Want to vote...become a citizen.

Re: Unbelievable- San Fran allowing Illegals to vote.
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2018, 09:05:27 PM »

Offline mmmmm

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3381
  • Tommy Points: 522
Pretty liberal guy here.....you don't get to vote unless you're a citizen. That's my stand and I don't care if it for a local, state or federal election. Want to vote...become a citizen.

Do you have any idea just how hard the path to U.S. citizenship is under current law?

It's simply not realistic to pretend that that is a 'choice' that any of these people could make.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.
#OneCitizenOneVote - True Election Reform:  Eliminate the anti-democratic Electoral College farce now.

Re: Unbelievable- San Fran allowing Illegals to vote.
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2018, 09:14:44 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • Global Moderator
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33168
  • Tommy Points: 5418
Pretty liberal guy here.....you don't get to vote unless you're a citizen. That's my stand and I don't care if it for a local, state or federal election. Want to vote...become a citizen.

Do you have any idea just how hard the path to U.S. citizenship is under current law?

It's simply not realistic to pretend that that is a 'choice' that any of these people could make.
Then they don't get to make a choice on election day. Pretty simple.

Re: Unbelievable- San Fran allowing Illegals to vote.
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2018, 09:16:15 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 35602
  • Tommy Points: -27752
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Pretty liberal guy here.....you don't get to vote unless you're a citizen. That's my stand and I don't care if it for a local, state or federal election. Want to vote...become a citizen.

Do you have any idea just how hard the path to U.S. citizenship is under current law?

It's simply not realistic to pretend that that is a 'choice' that any of these people could make.

Any? Between 600k and 800k citizens are naturalized per year. Between 44% and 49% of the foreign-born immigrants in this country — around 20 million Americans— are naturalized citizens.



Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Unbelievable- San Fran allowing Illegals to vote.
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2018, 10:39:07 PM »

Offline mmmmm

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3381
  • Tommy Points: 522
Pretty liberal guy here.....you don't get to vote unless you're a citizen. That's my stand and I don't care if it for a local, state or federal election. Want to vote...become a citizen.

Do you have any idea just how hard the path to U.S. citizenship is under current law?

It's simply not realistic to pretend that that is a 'choice' that any of these people could make.
Then they don't get to make a choice on election day. Pretty simple.

Well, which election are we talking about?  For any federal office or initiative? Sure.  That's the law.

But if a municipality grants them the right to vote for municipal concerns, why shouldn't they be able to vote?  What exact harm is it that you are afraid of?
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.
#OneCitizenOneVote - True Election Reform:  Eliminate the anti-democratic Electoral College farce now.

Re: Unbelievable- San Fran allowing Illegals to vote.
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2018, 10:40:54 PM »

Offline mmmmm

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3381
  • Tommy Points: 522
Pretty liberal guy here.....you don't get to vote unless you're a citizen. That's my stand and I don't care if it for a local, state or federal election. Want to vote...become a citizen.

Do you have any idea just how hard the path to U.S. citizenship is under current law?

It's simply not realistic to pretend that that is a 'choice' that any of these people could make.

Any? Between 600k and 800k citizens are naturalized per year. Between 44% and 49% of the foreign-born immigrants in this country — around 20 million Americans— are naturalized citizens.

Yeah, that really disproves the point, Roy.  Good faith.

If only I'd typed an "m" in front of that "any"!
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.
#OneCitizenOneVote - True Election Reform:  Eliminate the anti-democratic Electoral College farce now.

Re: Unbelievable- San Fran allowing Illegals to vote.
« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2018, 10:45:28 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 35602
  • Tommy Points: -27752
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Pretty liberal guy here.....you don't get to vote unless you're a citizen. That's my stand and I don't care if it for a local, state or federal election. Want to vote...become a citizen.

Do you have any idea just how hard the path to U.S. citizenship is under current law?

It's simply not realistic to pretend that that is a 'choice' that any of these people could make.

Any? Between 600k and 800k citizens are naturalized per year. Between 44% and 49% of the foreign-born immigrants in this country — around 20 million Americans— are naturalized citizens.

Yeah, that really disproves the point, Roy.  Good faith.

If only I'd typed an "m" in front of that "any"!

Am I supposed to guess what you mean?  It’s now bad faith to respond to the plain text of somebody’s argument?

What about the part where you suggested that becoming a US citizen is particularly hard? So hard that 20 million people have done it.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Unbelievable- San Fran allowing Illegals to vote.
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2018, 10:47:28 PM »

Offline Sophomore

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 865
  • Tommy Points: 148
I can see why a person would be opposed to this. I have a little more trouble seeing why it is "unbelievable", and why people who (I am guessing) have no personal connection to San Francisco are outraged. This is a vote in school board elections, and the idea is apparently so that parents with kids in those schools will vote. Some of those kids are citizens. I would bet that the large majority of the parents are law-abiding, taxpaying people, who build homes and offices, serve meals, work in hospitals and cleaning services. These aren't MS-13 members in some political ad. They are actual people who are known personally by citizen voters in the area.

I get that there is another side. Voting is a privilege that usually comes only with citizenship. You worry about the line slipping - what else should they be able to vote on? - and I do too. I can see why you don't like the idea. But do you really find it "unbelievable", in the sense that the motives of the people who want to allow this vote are something you can't even conceive of sharing, even a little? It bothers you even though you live 3,000 miles away?

 
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 11:31:06 PM by Sophomore »

Re: Unbelievable- San Fran allowing Illegals to vote.
« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2018, 10:54:48 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • Global Moderator
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33168
  • Tommy Points: 5418
Pretty liberal guy here.....you don't get to vote unless you're a citizen. That's my stand and I don't care if it for a local, state or federal election. Want to vote...become a citizen.

Do you have any idea just how hard the path to U.S. citizenship is under current law?

It's simply not realistic to pretend that that is a 'choice' that any of these people could make.
Then they don't get to make a choice on election day. Pretty simple.

Well, which election are we talking about?  For any federal office or initiative? Sure.  That's the law.

But if a municipality grants them the right to vote for municipal concerns, why shouldn't they be able to vote?  What exact harm is it that you are afraid of?
Still disagree with letting non-citizens of our country voting on issues that effect this country. I don't care if its federal, state, county, municipality or town.

Nothing is really going to change my mind about that. Want to vote in American elections, be American.

Re: Unbelievable- San Fran allowing Illegals to vote.
« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2018, 11:08:36 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 35602
  • Tommy Points: -27752
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Quote
But do you really find it "unbelievable", in the sense that the motives of the people who want to allow this vote are something you can't even conceive of sharing, even a little? It bothers you even though you live 3,000 miles away?

Well, nothing out of San Francisco should be unbelievable to anything.

As for outrage, it's a reaction to the agenda of certain leftist cities.  Sanctuary cities like San Francisco are actively resisting law enforcement, which in turn burdens the country and places the public at further risk.  Chipping away at American institutions such as voting in order to placate people here illegally is just more of the same.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Unbelievable- San Fran allowing Illegals to vote.
« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2018, 11:26:52 PM »

Offline Sophomore

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 865
  • Tommy Points: 148
Quote
But do you really find it "unbelievable", in the sense that the motives of the people who want to allow this vote are something you can't even conceive of sharing, even a little? It bothers you even though you live 3,000 miles away?

Well, nothing out of San Francisco should be unbelievable to anything.

As for outrage, it's a reaction to the agenda of certain leftist cities.  Sanctuary cities like San Francisco are actively resisting law enforcement, which in turn burdens the country and places the public at further risk.  Chipping away at American institutions such as voting in order to placate people here illegally is just more of the same.

I guess I’d disagree that sanctuary cities actively resist law enforcement or place he country at greater risk. Local officers often solve serious crimes, including murder, by getting tips from the public. It can help in getting those tips if they are not seen as immigration law enforcers.  As to security, I am not aware of any studies that show undocumented immigrants are more likely to commit crimes; many show the opposite, which is entirely intuitive. Most people who go through the many difficulties involved in coming here, who want to stay, try hard to stay out of trouble.

There may be reasons to want to step up deportations - maybe you think immigrants depress wages or are making cultural change too fast. But public safety is not a well supported reason.

I am more worried about the way the immigration issue is being used by our President to divide us and spread stereotypes. The same guy who went out of his way to talk about “good people” among the neo-nazis in Charlottesville can’t find much good to say about immigrants. There is way too much about MS-13 and even events with crime victims talking about loved ones killed by the undocumented. Of course the gang and the killing are horrors. But you could select victims killed by any group and try to foment hatred of that group. It would prove nothing about the danger actually posed by that group.

Re: Unbelievable- San Fran allowing Illegals to vote.
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2018, 12:23:54 AM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5908
  • Tommy Points: 18
Pretty liberal guy here.....you don't get to vote unless you're a citizen. That's my stand and I don't care if it for a local, state or federal election. Want to vote...become a citizen.

Do you have any idea just how hard the path to U.S. citizenship is under current law?

It's simply not realistic to pretend that that is a 'choice' that any of these people could make.

Any? Between 600k and 800k citizens are naturalized per year. Between 44% and 49% of the foreign-born immigrants in this country — around 20 million Americans— are naturalized citizens.

Yeah, that really disproves the point, Roy.  Good faith.

If only I'd typed an "m" in front of that "any"!

Am I supposed to guess what you mean?  It’s now bad faith to respond to the plain text of somebody’s argument?

Well, you know how plain text doesn't go over very well these days. It's all about "interpretation."
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

— C.S. Lewis

Re: Unbelievable- San Fran allowing Illegals to vote.
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2018, 11:11:22 PM »

Offline mmmmm

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3381
  • Tommy Points: 522
Pretty liberal guy here.....you don't get to vote unless you're a citizen. That's my stand and I don't care if it for a local, state or federal election. Want to vote...become a citizen.

Do you have any idea just how hard the path to U.S. citizenship is under current law?

It's simply not realistic to pretend that that is a 'choice' that any of these people could make.

Any? Between 600k and 800k citizens are naturalized per year. Between 44% and 49% of the foreign-born immigrants in this country — around 20 million Americans— are naturalized citizens.

Yeah, that really disproves the point, Roy.  Good faith.

If only I'd typed an "m" in front of that "any"!

Am I supposed to guess what you mean?  It’s now bad faith to respond to the plain text of somebody’s argument?

What about the part where you suggested that becoming a US citizen is particularly hard? So hard that 20 million people have done it.

Because the latter statement is flat-out disingenuous.   There are a tremendous number of hurdles that have to be crossed to become a citizen and if you trip on any one of them you can end up back at square one.  Right off the bat the application fee ($725) is prohibitively out of reach for many immigrants.  There were financial aid/waiver programs in place but this administration has either undercut those programs directly or terrified people from taking advantage of them.  And the reality is that that fee comes long after first having spent potentially thousands of dollars in legal fees negotiating the green card process.  Which can take years and years.   The English language and the civics exam is another hurdle that is very difficult for people to overcome.  Most natural born citizens would probably fail the civics exam.   The residency requirements are another hurdle.   During the recession, many immigrants actually temporarily _left_ the US looking for work and found upon returning that their residency clocks had reset.   And you only get to the residency requirement if your job passes certification by the Labor Department that it won't adversely affect any US person's job.  And the latter makes it almost impossible to change jobs.  So if market conditions zap your ability to stay in your job, you can end up screwed.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.
#OneCitizenOneVote - True Election Reform:  Eliminate the anti-democratic Electoral College farce now.