Author Topic: Marcus Morris: better to trade or stretch?  (Read 2851 times)

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Re: Marcus Morris: better to trade or stretch?
« Reply #45 on: July 19, 2018, 02:47:24 PM »

Offline AshyLarry

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Trade him to wiz show for Meeks or oubre or sataransky so he can play wif bruv and totally keep helping their locker room chemistry grow.
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Re: Marcus Morris: better to trade or stretch?
« Reply #46 on: July 19, 2018, 03:19:30 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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One other point to think about.  If the math is correct, shedding Rozier's salary would also get the team under the luxury tax line.  Hmm?

Of course, in this case the team would not give Rozier away but could maybe get a pick in return (rather than attaching a pick to shed others).

Re: Marcus Morris: better to trade or stretch?
« Reply #47 on: July 19, 2018, 03:41:13 PM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

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One other point to think about.  If the math is correct, shedding Rozier's salary would also get the team under the luxury tax line.  Hmm?

Of course, in this case the team would not give Rozier away but could maybe get a pick in return (rather than attaching a pick to shed others).

That was, an interesting thought. I think Ainge is willing to pay the tax unless wowed with an offer.

Re: Marcus Morris: better to trade or stretch?
« Reply #48 on: July 19, 2018, 03:45:03 PM »

Offline Geo123

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Neither. We're going for banner 18, we keep Morris and all the depth and versatility we can get.

Ainge and ownership have already said several times they are ready to pay the luxury tax to win.

Morris provides versatility, is a solid defender, can get buckets in a flash off the bench, and has the toughness that you want in a bench veteran on a title team.

I agree....

Re: Marcus Morris: better to trade or stretch?
« Reply #49 on: July 19, 2018, 03:52:40 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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I, unlike many internet GMís, donít believe a team trying to win a championship should just dump a starting-caliber role player for nothing just to get under the tax. I rather have him ride pine all playoffs than have to turn to Semi or Yabu in a big spot.


If we stretch Nader, we are still about $1.67M above the tax for 14 players, not including Bird.

Salary dumping Yabu would get us below, but Iím not sure what Birdís number would be (under $1M keeps us under the tax), again for 14 players with zero salary to do anything during the season.

My guess is we stay put and become taxpayers, even for such a small amount. Then we have the $5.3M to play with during the season.
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Re: Marcus Morris: better to trade or stretch?
« Reply #50 on: July 19, 2018, 05:40:25 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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I, unlike many internet GMís, donít believe a team trying to win a championship should just dump a starting-caliber role player for nothing just to get under the tax. I rather have him ride pine all playoffs than have to turn to Semi or Yabu in a big spot.


If we stretch Nader, we are still about $1.67M above the tax for 14 players, not including Bird.

Salary dumping Yabu would get us below, but Iím not sure what Birdís number would be (under $1M keeps us under the tax), again for 14 players with zero salary to do anything during the season.

My guess is we stay put and become taxpayers, even for such a small amount. Then we have the $5.3M to play with during the season.
This is part of the issue actually.  Seems a shame to start the repeater clock (which is what we want to avoid more than the actual tax this year) for such a small amount.  Oddly, if we were way over then we might not be having this discussion.

Re: Marcus Morris: better to trade or stretch?
« Reply #51 on: July 19, 2018, 05:43:53 PM »

Offline saltlover

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I, unlike many internet GMís, donít believe a team trying to win a championship should just dump a starting-caliber role player for nothing just to get under the tax. I rather have him ride pine all playoffs than have to turn to Semi or Yabu in a big spot.


If we stretch Nader, we are still about $1.67M above the tax for 14 players, not including Bird.

Salary dumping Yabu would get us below, but Iím not sure what Birdís number would be (under $1M keeps us under the tax), again for 14 players with zero salary to do anything during the season.

My guess is we stay put and become taxpayers, even for such a small amount. Then we have the $5.3M to play with during the season.
This is part of the issue actually.  Seems a shame to start the repeater clock (which is what we want to avoid more than the actual tax this year) for such a small amount.  Oddly, if we were way over then we might not be having this discussion.

While certainly it would be ideal to not be a tax team this year, itís more ideal to put the best possible team forward when a legitimate title contender.  If the tax is the price, and thus the repeater clock, so be it.
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Leviticus 19:33-34

Re: Marcus Morris: better to trade or stretch?
« Reply #52 on: July 19, 2018, 06:21:24 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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I, unlike many internet GMís, donít believe a team trying to win a championship should just dump a starting-caliber role player for nothing just to get under the tax. I rather have him ride pine all playoffs than have to turn to Semi or Yabu in a big spot.


If we stretch Nader, we are still about $1.67M above the tax for 14 players, not including Bird.

Salary dumping Yabu would get us below, but Iím not sure what Birdís number would be (under $1M keeps us under the tax), again for 14 players with zero salary to do anything during the season.

My guess is we stay put and become taxpayers, even for such a small amount. Then we have the $5.3M to play with during the season.
This is part of the issue actually.  Seems a shame to start the repeater clock (which is what we want to avoid more than the actual tax this year) for such a small amount.  Oddly, if we were way over then we might not be having this discussion.

While certainly it would be ideal to not be a tax team this year, itís more ideal to put the best possible team forward when a legitimate title contender.  If the tax is the price, and thus the repeater clock, so be it.
Sure.  But it comes down to the role that morris will play and what ramifications this will have once/if the repeater tax begins.  I might rather lose morris now to retain more flexibility in the future for what might be bigger questions.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 06:56:15 PM by droopdog7 »

Re: Marcus Morris: better to trade or stretch?
« Reply #53 on: July 19, 2018, 06:50:31 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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I, unlike many internet GMís, donít believe a team trying to win a championship should just dump a starting-caliber role player for nothing just to get under the tax. I rather have him ride pine all playoffs than have to turn to Semi or Yabu in a big spot.


If we stretch Nader, we are still about $1.67M above the tax for 14 players, not including Bird.

Salary dumping Yabu would get us below, but Iím not sure what Birdís number would be (under $1M keeps us under the tax), again for 14 players with zero salary to do anything during the season.

My guess is we stay put and become taxpayers, even for such a small amount. Then we have the $5.3M to play with during the season.
This is part of the issue actually.  Seems a shame to start the repeater clock (which is what we want to avoid more than the actual tax this year) for such a small amount.  Oddly, if we were way over then we might not be having this discussion.

While certainly it would be ideal to not be a tax team this year, itís more ideal to put the best possible team forward when a legitimate title contender.  If the tax is the price, and thus the repeater clock, so be it.

I've seen this point made by several people and in this case I do not think its the right way to approach this. First of all this team is gonna be good for a long time if we play it right, and to keep it together will require that repeater tax. So its not just the small payment this year thats the problem, its the fact you have to pay the higher rate a year earlier when you will likely be very expensive potentially result in 10's of millions of extra tax. Now if the owner shop is okay with that, then fine. But im skeptical, a historic tax payment which is possible is historic  because it almost never happens. And before everybody says "owner shipping says they will pay" I get it, but pay and pay HUGE are different. If you can get under it makes too.much business sense not to.

And thats before you in factor in other things like playing time, a more limited role, not enough ball to go around and I think it makes even more sense to trade Morris. On top of all that, I think he is massively overated. This team was overall worse with him on the floor last year, his defense comes and goes, his offense is in efficient and he NEVER PASSES THE BALL. Even the idea of him as insurance is overated, because if injuries happen and you reach the point where Morris is a crŪtical part of your team next year, you arent winning it all.

Now that doesnt mean you have to trade him now. You can wait and see how the team is going before deciding. Maybe Semi steps up and makes him expendable. Maybe the rotation shakes out such that he doesnt get a lot of playing time and you just dont need him. Maybe injuries happen and Ainge decides he does need him. But I think trading Morris is an obvious move.

Of course I am often wrong.
 

Re: Marcus Morris: better to trade or stretch?
« Reply #54 on: July 19, 2018, 07:02:50 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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I, unlike many internet GMís, donít believe a team trying to win a championship should just dump a starting-caliber role player for nothing just to get under the tax. I rather have him ride pine all playoffs than have to turn to Semi or Yabu in a big spot.


If we stretch Nader, we are still about $1.67M above the tax for 14 players, not including Bird.

Salary dumping Yabu would get us below, but Iím not sure what Birdís number would be (under $1M keeps us under the tax), again for 14 players with zero salary to do anything during the season.

My guess is we stay put and become taxpayers, even for such a small amount. Then we have the $5.3M to play with during the season.

He's not really a starter-caliber guy. He was forced into that role by injuries last year but his defense stinks most of the time and his offense is hit or miss.

I get liking his tude or whatever but as a player he is utterly replaceable..

Re: Marcus Morris: better to trade or stretch?
« Reply #55 on: July 19, 2018, 07:19:17 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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Morris has a lot of value for this team's toughness and scoring...Yabu and Nader Both can go--they are pretty useless.

There will be injuries, and we'll be glad Danny didn't get rid of him.
Larry Bird was Greater than you think.

Re: Marcus Morris: better to trade or stretch?
« Reply #56 on: July 19, 2018, 09:30:06 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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I, unlike many internet GM’s, don’t believe a team trying to win a championship should just dump a starting-caliber role player for nothing just to get under the tax. I rather have him ride pine all playoffs than have to turn to Semi or Yabu in a big spot.


If we stretch Nader, we are still about $1.67M above the tax for 14 players, not including Bird.

Salary dumping Yabu would get us below, but I’m not sure what Bird’s number would be (under $1M keeps us under the tax), again for 14 players with zero salary to do anything during the season.

My guess is we stay put and become taxpayers, even for such a small amount. Then we have the $5.3M to play with during the season.
This is part of the issue actually.  Seems a shame to start the repeater clock (which is what we want to avoid more than the actual tax this year) for such a small amount.  Oddly, if we were way over then we might not be having this discussion.

While certainly it would be ideal to not be a tax team this year, it’s more ideal to put the best possible team forward when a legitimate title contender.  If the tax is the price, and thus the repeater clock, so be it.

I've seen this point made by several people and in this case I do not think its the right way to approach this. First of all this team is gonna be good for a long time if we play it right, and to keep it together will require that repeater tax. So its not just the small payment this year thats the problem, its the fact you have to pay the higher rate a year earlier when you will likely be very expensive potentially result in 10's of millions of extra tax. Now if the owner shop is okay with that, then fine. But im skeptical, a historic tax payment which is possible is historic  because it almost never happens. And before everybody says "owner shipping says they will pay" I get it, but pay and pay HUGE are different. If you can get under it makes too.much business sense not to.

And thats before you in factor in other things like playing time, a more limited role, not enough ball to go around and I think it makes even more sense to trade Morris. On top of all that, I think he is massively overated. This team was overall worse with him on the floor last year, his defense comes and goes, his offense is in efficient and he NEVER PASSES THE BALL. Even the idea of him as insurance is overated, because if injuries happen and you reach the point where Morris is a crŪtical part of your team next year, you arent winning it all.

Now that doesnt mean you have to trade him now. You can wait and see how the team is going before deciding. Maybe Semi steps up and makes him expendable. Maybe the rotation shakes out such that he doesnt get a lot of playing time and you just dont need him. Maybe injuries happen and Ainge decides he does need him. But I think trading Morris is an obvious move.

Of course I am often wrong.

I think your criticisms are valid, especially his lack of passing.

But there are some mitigating factors.

It was a “tale of two seasons” for him. He was a better player after he returned the second time, including on defense, and particularly his post game and finishing were more effective.

Also, he has a couple of strengths that fans miss. He gets to the line at a good clip (this was a team weakness last year, so that’s a big plus), and he’s a grade-A free throw shooter; and he doesn’t pass much, but he also doesn’t turn it over much.

I don’t know how real the contract year motivation is; maybe he’s motivated by that.

I’d keep him. Long term, I’m less enthusiastic.

Re: Marcus Morris: better to trade or stretch?
« Reply #57 on: July 19, 2018, 09:43:27 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Re: Marcus Morris: better to trade or stretch?
« Reply #58 on: July 19, 2018, 10:13:49 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I probably have a generally higher opinion of Morris than keevsnick, but I basically agree with everything he said, so tp.

- staying under the tax is important because of the many years we will likely be in it
- if injuries get so severe that we need Morris in big minutes, we aren't winning a championship
- Hayward/Theis returning, Smart is re-signed (for attitude purposes), young guys could step up
- Morris might not be as engaged because of his role

It just doesn't make much sense at all to keep him if we are going to be over the tax by a couple of million. However, if we go out and use the MLE on another impact player and push further into the tax, then I suppose he can stay as an expiring luxury.

Re: Marcus Morris: better to trade or stretch?
« Reply #59 on: July 19, 2018, 10:45:57 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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