Author Topic: Isaiah Thomas takes veiled shot at Celtics  (Read 10588 times)

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Re: Isaiah Thomas takes veiled shot at Celtics
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2018, 05:19:20 PM »

Offline Rakulp

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More players should fight to get trade kickers in their contract.

Supposedly DeMar left $14m on the table when he re-signed with the Raptors to allow the team room to add other players.

Per CBA FAQ, the trade kicker can't exceed 15% of remaining value of contract (not including option years) as long as it won't cause a player to be paid more than the max and is paid by the team trading the player away (but can be waived by the player to make a trade happen, like Kyrie did for the C's).

So the Raptors would have had to pay DeMar an additional $8.3m.  I think this would be a good compromise.  I think it's a little better for the league than a NTC, still allows movement, players can't hold a team hostage, but a team has to give additional comp to the player if they trade him away.

I wouldn't take a team friendly discount without one (anyone can get a trade kicker, as opposed to a NTC which is harder to qualify for).

More players can fight for it...but few will ever get it.

As for taking a discount willingly, that can also be viewed as putting the team's interest over your own...which is usually a good thing.


Re: Isaiah Thomas takes veiled shot at Celtics
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2018, 05:20:07 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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IT isn’t wrong. Neither is DeRozan. “Loyalty” is a one-way Street. Players are expected to give “home town discounts”, while teams show no loyalty to players.

Absolutely.  Both were properly shafted. 
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Re: Isaiah Thomas takes veiled shot at Celtics
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2018, 05:25:05 PM »

Offline rondofan1255

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The guy who is barking for Brink truck when he is worth 2M$ is talking about loyalty?

This. People like Gil Meche are extremely rare

Re: Isaiah Thomas takes veiled shot at Celtics
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2018, 05:58:39 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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IT isn’t wrong. Neither is DeRozan. “Loyalty” is a one-way Street. Players are expected to give “home town discounts”, while teams show no loyalty to players.

What happens in the private sector, if a person is overpaid, performs poorly under pressure, and fails to meet yearly goals (in this case reaching the NBA Finals)?

Re: Isaiah Thomas takes veiled shot at Celtics
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2018, 06:00:28 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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IT isn’t wrong. Neither is DeRozan. “Loyalty” is a one-way Street. Players are expected to give “home town discounts”, while teams show no loyalty to players.

Absolutely.  Both were properly shafted.

I’m not sure I get how DeRozan was shafted. He got traded for a better player. They gave him a max contract, no? So it’s not like he took a discount for them.

And unlike IT, he had the opportunity to carry his team and failed multiple times. IT injured himself trying to carry us to the Finals with a pretty thin team. Then there is the whole China and contract situation and all the recruiting he did and profound love for the city/franchise/fanbase. I can’t speak on DD’s situation in Toronto, but they were a deep team and couldn’t beat LeBron by himself. He failed Toronto.
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Re: Isaiah Thomas takes veiled shot at Celtics
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2018, 06:03:12 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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It's right.  But a bunch of people will get their hackles up, and wrongly attack him, anyway.

Yep.

Self-righteous indignation is an intoxicating, delicious drug.   Very popular among bloggers.
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Re: Isaiah Thomas takes veiled shot at Celtics
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2018, 06:14:57 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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IT isn’t wrong. Neither is DeRozan. “Loyalty” is a one-way Street. Players are expected to give “home town discounts”, while teams show no loyalty to players.

I agree, they are right, but you and they need to stop pretending that players are loyal. They want their pay and/or minutes and a large role or they leave! It's a business and there is no loyalty on both sides! How loyal was IT4 when he signed in Phx then immediately starting crying about his role pretty much forcing his way out?

This is revisionist.  It never happened that way.  Dragic is the one who complained publicly and frequently.   Everyone expected Dragic to be traded.  It was a shock when PHO traded both of them.  Thomas was only traded because Danny dangled a 1st round pick for a guy McDonough mistakenly thought of as a bench player.   IT never asked to be traded from PHO and if anything was expecting to get more minutes once Dragic was traded.

And Roy never asserted that players are loyal so it's a straw man to tell him to stop pretending such.   

And your assertion that they want such-and-such "or they leave" ignores the reality that players can't simply leave unless they are free agents.  Which only occurs under certain circumstances once or twice very briefly in the typical player's career.   Outside of those brief moments, most players have no control over 'leaving' their situation whereas teams for the most part almost always at least have the ability to trade most players.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Isaiah Thomas takes veiled shot at Celtics
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2018, 06:15:51 PM »

Offline RJ87

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This is business, not the mafia. There's no such thing as loyalty from either side, people should stop expecting it. For the most part, Danny has always operated by doing what's best for the team instead of showing loyalty to a particular player. He did it with Paul, he did it with KG, he did it with Isaiah. And look at how that's benefiting this team right now?
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Re: Isaiah Thomas takes veiled shot at Celtics
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2018, 06:21:14 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
Loyalty isn't a one way street.

Of course it is, and there’s an obvious reason for it: the fans only hold one side accountable.

If a team is “disloyal” by trading / waiving a player, the fans inevitably side with management.  They want the best product on the floor, period. It doesn’t matter if a player played hurt, took less in the past, etc.  Fans have a “what have you done for me lately” attitude. In other words, fans by and large don’t want franchises to be loyal.

On the other hand, fans take a “how dare he leave” attitude if he goes to another franchise. It’s as if they expect a player to sign for less just to be a Celtic. You see it in some of the criticisms of Marcus Smart, and you see it in continued attacks on Ray Allen. Players get called “traitors”, teams are admired for making nonsentimental decisions.



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Re: Isaiah Thomas takes veiled shot at Celtics
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2018, 06:22:55 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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It's a business not club of friends.   After Ainge, traded PP you know anyone could be traded.  Especially, an undersized guard, who is injured even though he played his heart out and loved the City, but you knew he could be gone the moment he said the Brinks Truck statement.

Those trades aren't really comparable.  Pierce was traded only after both he and KG agreed to be traded.

I'm dubious that the Brinks Truck statement had anything to do with any decision Danny made.   Thomas' injury and the need to be a contender (due to the signing of Hayward) and the sudden availability of Irving almost certainly had far more to do with why that trade happened than any random comment about a Brinks Truck.

If Irving wasn't suddenly available, no trade happens, regardless of the other things.
If Thomas wasn't injured, no trade happens, regardless of the other things.
But if Thomas never made the Brinks Truck comment, the trade still happens, assuming all the other things.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Isaiah Thomas takes veiled shot at Celtics
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2018, 06:33:14 PM »

Offline ozgod

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https://weei.radio.com/blogs/john-tomase/kawhi-leonard-trade-isaiah-thomas-takes-veiled-shot-celtics-after-spurs-and



Enough IT!

I can understand why he would be upset, and it's ok for him to feel upset. But the reality is that it IS a business. If he had stayed, and not gotten a max contract and left, well that's not really loyalty either. Human beings feel emotion and I don't begrudge or resent IT for feeling hurt, God knows he did enough for us while he was here, he's earned the right to feel hurt. But the reality is that it is a business, and players are assets, and we traded away a damaged asset for a better, healthy one.
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Re: Isaiah Thomas takes veiled shot at Celtics
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2018, 07:05:45 PM »

Offline Scintan

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IT isn’t wrong. Neither is DeRozan. “Loyalty” is a one-way Street. Players are expected to give “home town discounts”, while teams show no loyalty to players.

Absolutely.  Both were properly shafted.

I’m not sure I get how DeRozan was shafted. He got traded for a better player. They gave him a max contract, no? So it’s not like he took a discount for them.

He didn't sign for the max.  He did take a discount for them.


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Re: Isaiah Thomas takes veiled shot at Celtics
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2018, 07:17:21 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Quote
Loyalty isn't a one way street.

Of course it is, and there’s an obvious reason for it: the fans only hold one side accountable.

If a team is “disloyal” by trading / waiving a player, the fans inevitably side with management.  They want the best product on the floor, period. It doesn’t matter if a player played hurt, took less in the past, etc.  Fans have a “what have you done for me lately” attitude. In other words, fans by and large don’t want franchises to be loyal.

On the other hand, fans take a “how dare he leave” attitude if he goes to another franchise. It’s as if they expect a player to sign for less just to be a Celtic. You see it in some of the criticisms of Marcus Smart, and you see it in continued attacks on Ray Allen. Players get called “traitors”, teams are admired for making nonsentimental decisions.

The Allen thing is a bit different because it is one of the few times I can remember where the players were openly mad at the player for many years. It may be the only time I can actually even remember that. So fans were put in the position of siding with the players still on the team (pierce and kg) or the guy that no longer did. So that was a very unique situation. Allen was also continuing to bash Boston after he left until Riley finally told him to stop.

Re: Isaiah Thomas takes veiled shot at Celtics
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2018, 07:25:45 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Quote
Loyalty isn't a one way street.

Of course it is, and there’s an obvious reason for it: the fans only hold one side accountable.

If a team is “disloyal” by trading / waiving a player, the fans inevitably side with management.  They want the best product on the floor, period. It doesn’t matter if a player played hurt, took less in the past, etc.  Fans have a “what have you done for me lately” attitude. In other words, fans by and large don’t want franchises to be loyal.

On the other hand, fans take a “how dare he leave” attitude if he goes to another franchise. It’s as if they expect a player to sign for less just to be a Celtic. You see it in some of the criticisms of Marcus Smart, and you see it in continued attacks on Ray Allen. Players get called “traitors”, teams are admired for making nonsentimental decisions.

Sure, Ray didn't have to be loyal to the team, but he shouldve at least shown respect to his teammates. Instead he slapped then in the face by going to a rival for less money without even talking to them.

Re: Isaiah Thomas takes veiled shot at Celtics
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2018, 07:29:05 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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I'd agree if the players were the ones shelling out millions of dollars to the teams

Aren’t they? The players are the product.

Everyone should just cut the word “loyalty” out of their vocabulary when it comes to pro sports.

yup.  IT was dealt as bad of a hand as you can be really.  I feel him and it's well within his rights to say something.
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