Author Topic: Then it was just the 76ers  (Read 3308 times)

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Re: Then it was just the 76ers
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2018, 10:36:22 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Think Philly took a step back this offseason so far..lost Bellinelli and Ersan..added no one except draft players
Don't think losing Belli and Ersan, who were post trade deadline pickups, is much of a loss.  They picked up Wilson Chandler via trade.  How they do will predominantly be driven by the growth of their young players.  They should hold onto their room exception to see who becomes available during the season.

lol come on man. You know how much they helped them last regular season
I'll refer you to my post above.  They helped but not as much as the easy end of season schedule did.  In any case, you don't win championships in the regular season.  Ilyasova and Belinelli are a lot less useful in the playoffs and if the Sixers had re-signed them you would have been trumpeting that fact in all your Sixers posts.
They literally had a really poor offseason. Struck out on Lebron, George and Leonard. Lost two bench players. Saw their biggest signing renege on the agreement. Have seen their title odds plummet. That's just realistic. Your caricature optimistic views of them are the worst kept secret on the forum.

Re: Then it was just the 76ers
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2018, 11:09:09 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Think Philly took a step back this offseason so far..lost Bellinelli and Ersan..added no one except draft players
Don't think losing Belli and Ersan, who were post trade deadline pickups, is much of a loss.  They picked up Wilson Chandler via trade.  How they do will predominantly be driven by the growth of their young players.  They should hold onto their room exception to see who becomes available during the season.

lol come on man. You know how much they helped them last regular season
I'll refer you to my post above.  They helped but not as much as the easy end of season schedule did.  In any case, you don't win championships in the regular season.  Ilyasova and Belinelli are a lot less useful in the playoffs and if the Sixers had re-signed them you would have been trumpeting that fact in all your Sixers posts.
They literally had a really poor offseason. Struck out on Lebron, George and Leonard. Lost two bench players. Saw their biggest signing renege on the agreement. Have seen their title odds plummet. That's just realistic. Your caricature optimistic views of them are the worst kept secret on the forum.
Did I say they had a good offseason?   It is clear now that George staying in OKC and Lebron going to the Lakers were done deals before free agency began.  I've said previously that I wouldn't trade much for Leonard unless he gave strong indications that he'd resign.  As for Bjelica, I thought them using the room exception on him wasn't a particularly good move.  I think they should keep their room exception open for in-season moves.  What they did right is just sign players on 1 year contracts in order to maintain their cap space for next offseason.  I just said losing Ilyasova and Belinelli wasn't that big of a loss.  They are bench role players with significant limitations in the playoffs. 

How exactly did their title odds plummet?   Losing Ilyasova, Belinelli and Bjelica certainly didn't significantly impact their title odds.  Their odds are low like last season but I'd actually give them a bit better odds with Lebron going West. 

Re: Then it was just the 76ers
« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2018, 01:06:37 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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Think Philly took a step back this offseason so far..lost Bellinelli and Ersan..added no one except draft players
Don't think losing Belli and Ersan, who were post trade deadline pickups, is much of a loss.  They picked up Wilson Chandler via trade.  How they do will predominantly be driven by the growth of their young players.  They should hold onto their room exception to see who becomes available during the season.

lol come on man. You know how much they helped them last regular season
I'll refer you to my post above.  They helped but not as much as the easy end of season schedule did.  In any case, you don't win championships in the regular season.  Ilyasova and Belinelli are a lot less useful in the playoffs and if the Sixers had re-signed them you would have been trumpeting that fact in all your Sixers posts.
They literally had a really poor offseason. Struck out on Lebron, George and Leonard. Lost two bench players. Saw their biggest signing renege on the agreement. Have seen their title odds plummet. That's just realistic. Your caricature optimistic views of them are the worst kept secret on the forum.
Did I say they had a good offseason?   It is clear now that George staying in OKC and Lebron going to the Lakers were done deals before free agency began.  I've said previously that I wouldn't trade much for Leonard unless he gave strong indications that he'd resign.  As for Bjelica, I thought them using the room exception on him wasn't a particularly good move.  I think they should keep their room exception open for in-season moves.  What they did right is just sign players on 1 year contracts in order to maintain their cap space for next offseason.  I just said losing Ilyasova and Belinelli wasn't that big of a loss.  They are bench role players with significant limitations in the playoffs. 

How exactly did their title odds plummet?   Losing Ilyasova, Belinelli and Bjelica certainly didn't significantly impact their title odds.  Their odds are low like last season but I'd actually give them a bit better odds with Lebron going West.

Their odds literally plummeted. They opened at 7-2 because they had big hopes of improving their team and people thought they would. https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/76ers/sixers-one-early-favorites-win-nba-title-next-season

They are now 20-1 and have been passed by 4 teams. (I can't post to current odds cause they are on a betting site but I am sure someone can find media coverage of it soon). I'm giving you objective facts and your doing the same ol nonsense about how everything is great for them

Re: Then it was just the 76ers
« Reply #33 on: July 19, 2018, 03:24:10 AM »

Offline Scintan

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The Leonard addition to Toronto is being overrated.  He isn't going to catapult that team into another level.  He's not that significant an upgrade.

Phlly's rating is based more on projection than production.  That was not a particularly good team last year, but people are expecting major improvement from Simmons and Embiid, and are expecting Fultz to be a player.


In the end, if the Raptors keep Leonard for the season, and teams in the Eastern Conference don't make any more major moves, Toronto should be Boston's closest challenger this season, but Boston should take them out in 5 come playoff time.


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Re: Then it was just the 76ers
« Reply #34 on: July 19, 2018, 03:52:29 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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The Leonard addition to Toronto is being overrated.  He isn't going to catapult that team into another level.  He's not that significant an upgrade.

Phlly's rating is based more on projection than production.  That was not a particularly good team last year, but people are expecting major improvement from Simmons and Embiid, and are expecting Fultz to be a player.


In the end, if the Raptors keep Leonard for the season, and teams in the Eastern Conference don't make any more major moves, Toronto should be Boston's closest challenger this season, but Boston should take them out in 5 come playoff time.

I think we will now see exactly how good Kawhi is.

Heís a consensus top-5 players, but heís not the type that will go out and put up a monster triple-double or 50-point game. Heís consistent and does all the right things, but does he have the ability to take over games offensively?

We only know him in Popís system and he was given appropriate credit, but he still needs to prove he can do it with any coach and with any team (like a LeBron or Durant can).

That said, they gave up a top-25 player for him. And when you get into that elite territory, the difference between them gets smaller and smaller (top 100 player is not as close to a top 50 player as 50 is to 25, 50 to 25 not as close as 25 to 10, etc etc).

Iíd definitely put them second behind the Celtics in the East, ahead of the Sixers. Just about every night they will have the best player on the floor and a deepish team, which is a recipe for a tough out. Milwaukee should be in the 3-4 mix as well.
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Re: Then it was just the 76ers
« Reply #35 on: July 19, 2018, 07:13:03 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Phlly's rating is based more on projection than production.  That was not a particularly good team last year, but people are expecting major improvement from Simmons and Embiid, and are expecting Fultz to be a player.

Exactly, TP.

Also, people are optimistic for Embiid's health staying healthy.  Simmons and Fultz developing shots.   And the latter two becoming winners when their collegiate careers were indicative that they were not.

Re: Then it was just the 76ers
« Reply #36 on: July 19, 2018, 07:40:07 AM »

Offline Big333223

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The Leonard addition to Toronto is being overrated.  He isn't going to catapult that team into another level.  He's not that significant an upgrade.

Phlly's rating is based more on projection than production.  That was not a particularly good team last year, but people are expecting major improvement from Simmons and Embiid, and are expecting Fultz to be a player.


In the end, if the Raptors keep Leonard for the season, and teams in the Eastern Conference don't make any more major moves, Toronto should be Boston's closest challenger this season, but Boston should take them out in 5 come playoff time.

I think we will now see exactly how good Kawhi is.

Heís a consensus top-5 players, but heís not the type that will go out and put up a monster triple-double or 50-point game. Heís consistent and does all the right things, but does he have the ability to take over games offensively?

We only know him in Popís system and he was given appropriate credit, but he still needs to prove he can do it with any coach and with any team (like a LeBron or Durant can).

That said, they gave up a top-25 player for him. And when you get into that elite territory, the difference between them gets smaller and smaller (top 100 player is not as close to a top 50 player as 50 is to 25, 50 to 25 not as close as 25 to 10, etc etc).

Iíd definitely put them second behind the Celtics in the East, ahead of the Sixers. Just about every night they will have the best player on the floor and a deepish team, which is a recipe for a tough out. Milwaukee should be in the 3-4 mix as well.

Kawhi is definitely an interesting star. According to his page on realGM, he's never had more than 7 assists in a game. For a 7 year pro that has the ball as much as he does, that seems really low.

Maybe an indicator of his reliance on the Spurs system? Or maybe it's an indicator of the Spurs system boxing him into a role and not letting him be more creative? I guess we'll find out this year.
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Re: Then it was just the 76ers
« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2018, 08:26:48 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Think Philly took a step back this offseason so far..lost Bellinelli and Ersan..added no one except draft players
Don't think losing Belli and Ersan, who were post trade deadline pickups, is much of a loss.  They picked up Wilson Chandler via trade.  How they do will predominantly be driven by the growth of their young players.  They should hold onto their room exception to see who becomes available during the season.

lol come on man. You know how much they helped them last regular season
I'll refer you to my post above.  They helped but not as much as the easy end of season schedule did.  In any case, you don't win championships in the regular season.  Ilyasova and Belinelli are a lot less useful in the playoffs and if the Sixers had re-signed them you would have been trumpeting that fact in all your Sixers posts.
They literally had a really poor offseason. Struck out on Lebron, George and Leonard. Lost two bench players. Saw their biggest signing renege on the agreement. Have seen their title odds plummet. That's just realistic. Your caricature optimistic views of them are the worst kept secret on the forum.
Did I say they had a good offseason?   It is clear now that George staying in OKC and Lebron going to the Lakers were done deals before free agency began.  I've said previously that I wouldn't trade much for Leonard unless he gave strong indications that he'd resign.  As for Bjelica, I thought them using the room exception on him wasn't a particularly good move.  I think they should keep their room exception open for in-season moves.  What they did right is just sign players on 1 year contracts in order to maintain their cap space for next offseason.  I just said losing Ilyasova and Belinelli wasn't that big of a loss.  They are bench role players with significant limitations in the playoffs. 

How exactly did their title odds plummet?   Losing Ilyasova, Belinelli and Bjelica certainly didn't significantly impact their title odds.  Their odds are low like last season but I'd actually give them a bit better odds with Lebron going West.

Their odds literally plummeted. They opened at 7-2 because they had big hopes of improving their team and people thought they would. https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/76ers/sixers-one-early-favorites-win-nba-title-next-season

They are now 20-1 and have been passed by 4 teams. (I can't post to current odds cause they are on a betting site but I am sure someone can find media coverage of it soon). I'm giving you objective facts and your doing the same ol nonsense about how everything is great for them
I knew what you were referring to.  I just wanted to see you spot that nonsense.  Betting odds are not objective facts.  They are subjective, very transitory and are just a means to part suckers from their money.  When Lebron "might" go to the Lakers, Rockets and Sixers, all three teams betting odds went up.  Guess what.  The reality is there is only 1 Lebron and only 1 team was ever going to get him.  The reality is that the Cavs were the Lebron losers not the Sixers.  The Sixers benefit from him going West just like we and all the other teams in the East do. 

You don't judge a team's offseason by fluctuating betting odds.  You judge it by all the actual moves made.  You judge it by the players they had last season versus the players they'll have this season.   I'm the one that is dealing with reality.  You're the one that knocks Redick in order to claim his re-signing isn't a big deal and yet talk about losing Ilyasova and Belinelli like it was a big deal.  The reality is Redick was much more important to the Sixers winning last season. 

Re: Then it was just the 76ers
« Reply #38 on: July 19, 2018, 08:38:09 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Think Philly took a step back this offseason so far..lost Bellinelli and Ersan..added no one except draft players
Don't think losing Belli and Ersan, who were post trade deadline pickups, is much of a loss.  They picked up Wilson Chandler via trade. 

You can tell you're definitely a Sixers fan with this one!

The Sixers went 20-3 with Ilyasova both and Belinelli and were 32-27 prior to their arrival. They providing spacing and high IQ play, things that will heavily missed.

Chandler isn't the best on that team. As his athletic ability has waned, his best position now is small ball 4, positions that Simmons and Saric are also best suited for. In addition, his ability to stretch the floor isn't that good. His last 4 seasons he's shot the following from 3:

34.8
34.2
33.7
35.8

Their spacing is definitely going to take a huge hit!

Strong post eddie.
come on now, you have been going on for months about the Sixers schedule down the stretch sucked.  Which is it, did the schedule suck or were Ilyasova and Bellinelli the key to that success?  You can't have it both ways.

Re: Then it was just the 76ers
« Reply #39 on: July 19, 2018, 08:46:26 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Think Philly took a step back this offseason so far..lost Bellinelli and Ersan..added no one except draft players
Don't think losing Belli and Ersan, who were post trade deadline pickups, is much of a loss.  They picked up Wilson Chandler via trade.  How they do will predominantly be driven by the growth of their young players.  They should hold onto their room exception to see who becomes available during the season.

lol come on man. You know how much they helped them last regular season
I'll refer you to my post above.  They helped but not as much as the easy end of season schedule did.  In any case, you don't win championships in the regular season.  Ilyasova and Belinelli are a lot less useful in the playoffs and if the Sixers had re-signed them you would have been trumpeting that fact in all your Sixers posts.
They literally had a really poor offseason. Struck out on Lebron, George and Leonard. Lost two bench players. Saw their biggest signing renege on the agreement. Have seen their title odds plummet. That's just realistic. Your caricature optimistic views of them are the worst kept secret on the forum.
Did I say they had a good offseason?   It is clear now that George staying in OKC and Lebron going to the Lakers were done deals before free agency began.  I've said previously that I wouldn't trade much for Leonard unless he gave strong indications that he'd resign.  As for Bjelica, I thought them using the room exception on him wasn't a particularly good move.  I think they should keep their room exception open for in-season moves.  What they did right is just sign players on 1 year contracts in order to maintain their cap space for next offseason.  I just said losing Ilyasova and Belinelli wasn't that big of a loss.  They are bench role players with significant limitations in the playoffs. 

How exactly did their title odds plummet?   Losing Ilyasova, Belinelli and Bjelica certainly didn't significantly impact their title odds.  Their odds are low like last season but I'd actually give them a bit better odds with Lebron going West.

Their odds literally plummeted. They opened at 7-2 because they had big hopes of improving their team and people thought they would. https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/76ers/sixers-one-early-favorites-win-nba-title-next-season

They are now 20-1 and have been passed by 4 teams. (I can't post to current odds cause they are on a betting site but I am sure someone can find media coverage of it soon). I'm giving you objective facts and your doing the same ol nonsense about how everything is great for them
the odds on June 2nd were based on people thinking that the Sixers would trade for Kawhi or acquire a big name in free agency.  They were inflated then based on that belief and the public betting based on that belief.  But the Sixers themselves will almost certainly be a better team next year if no other reason that Embiid, Simmons, Saric, and especially Fultz should all continue to improve as young players do.  They also added a mid-tier 1st and Wilson Chandler to their bench, which should help them a great deal.  They will be a better team, though I do think they are the 3rd seed again (again behind Boston and Toronto), which makes their title odds rough as they will have a better team in the 1st round (Indiana, Milwaukee, or Washington most likely), then have to play Toronto and Boston in the final 2 rounds of the East.  That is a pretty difficult playoff schedule and doesn't even account for what will most likely be the Warriors in the Finals. 

Re: Then it was just the 76ers
« Reply #40 on: July 19, 2018, 10:54:28 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Think Philly took a step back this offseason so far..lost Bellinelli and Ersan..added no one except draft players
Don't think losing Belli and Ersan, who were post trade deadline pickups, is much of a loss.  They picked up Wilson Chandler via trade. 

You can tell you're definitely a Sixers fan with this one!

The Sixers went 20-3 with Ilyasova both and Belinelli and were 32-27 prior to their arrival. They providing spacing and high IQ play, things that will heavily missed.

Chandler isn't the best on that team. As his athletic ability has waned, his best position now is small ball 4, positions that Simmons and Saric are also best suited for. In addition, his ability to stretch the floor isn't that good. His last 4 seasons he's shot the following from 3:

34.8
34.2
33.7
35.8

Their spacing is definitely going to take a huge hit!

Strong post eddie.
come on now, you have been going on for months about the Sixers schedule down the stretch sucked.  Which is it, did the schedule suck or were Ilyasova and Bellinelli the key to that success?  You can't have it both ways.
Why can't you have it both ways? multiple things go into a hot stretch.
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Re: Then it was just the 76ers
« Reply #41 on: July 19, 2018, 11:28:01 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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Think Philly took a step back this offseason so far..lost Bellinelli and Ersan..added no one except draft players
Don't think losing Belli and Ersan, who were post trade deadline pickups, is much of a loss.  They picked up Wilson Chandler via trade. 

You can tell you're definitely a Sixers fan with this one!

The Sixers went 20-3 with Ilyasova both and Belinelli and were 32-27 prior to their arrival. They providing spacing and high IQ play, things that will heavily missed.

Chandler isn't the best on that team. As his athletic ability has waned, his best position now is small ball 4, positions that Simmons and Saric are also best suited for. In addition, his ability to stretch the floor isn't that good. His last 4 seasons he's shot the following from 3:

34.8
34.2
33.7
35.8

Their spacing is definitely going to take a huge hit!

Strong post eddie.
come on now, you have been going on for months about the Sixers schedule down the stretch sucked.  Which is it, did the schedule suck or were Ilyasova and Bellinelli the key to that success?  You can't have it both ways.
Why can't you have it both ways? multiple things go into a hot stretch.

Yea exactly. Confused why someone would think this was an either or?

Re: Then it was just the 76ers
« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2018, 11:33:56 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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Think Philly took a step back this offseason so far..lost Bellinelli and Ersan..added no one except draft players
Don't think losing Belli and Ersan, who were post trade deadline pickups, is much of a loss.  They picked up Wilson Chandler via trade.  How they do will predominantly be driven by the growth of their young players.  They should hold onto their room exception to see who becomes available during the season.

lol come on man. You know how much they helped them last regular season
I'll refer you to my post above.  They helped but not as much as the easy end of season schedule did.  In any case, you don't win championships in the regular season.  Ilyasova and Belinelli are a lot less useful in the playoffs and if the Sixers had re-signed them you would have been trumpeting that fact in all your Sixers posts.
They literally had a really poor offseason. Struck out on Lebron, George and Leonard. Lost two bench players. Saw their biggest signing renege on the agreement. Have seen their title odds plummet. That's just realistic. Your caricature optimistic views of them are the worst kept secret on the forum.
Did I say they had a good offseason?   It is clear now that George staying in OKC and Lebron going to the Lakers were done deals before free agency began.  I've said previously that I wouldn't trade much for Leonard unless he gave strong indications that he'd resign.  As for Bjelica, I thought them using the room exception on him wasn't a particularly good move.  I think they should keep their room exception open for in-season moves.  What they did right is just sign players on 1 year contracts in order to maintain their cap space for next offseason.  I just said losing Ilyasova and Belinelli wasn't that big of a loss.  They are bench role players with significant limitations in the playoffs. 

How exactly did their title odds plummet?   Losing Ilyasova, Belinelli and Bjelica certainly didn't significantly impact their title odds.  Their odds are low like last season but I'd actually give them a bit better odds with Lebron going West.

Their odds literally plummeted. They opened at 7-2 because they had big hopes of improving their team and people thought they would. https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/76ers/sixers-one-early-favorites-win-nba-title-next-season

They are now 20-1 and have been passed by 4 teams. (I can't post to current odds cause they are on a betting site but I am sure someone can find media coverage of it soon). I'm giving you objective facts and your doing the same ol nonsense about how everything is great for them
the odds on June 2nd were based on people thinking that the Sixers would trade for Kawhi or acquire a big name in free agency.  They were inflated then based on that belief and the public betting based on that belief.  But the Sixers themselves will almost certainly be a better team next year if no other reason that Embiid, Simmons, Saric, and especially Fultz should all continue to improve as young players do.  They also added a mid-tier 1st and Wilson Chandler to their bench, which should help them a great deal.  They will be a better team, though I do think they are the 3rd seed again (again behind Boston and Toronto), which makes their title odds rough as they will have a better team in the 1st round (Indiana, Milwaukee, or Washington most likely), then have to play Toronto and Boston in the final 2 rounds of the East.  That is a pretty difficult playoff schedule and doesn't even account for what will most likely be the Warriors in the Finals.

I think Philly will be a little better for the reason you mentioned in a vacuum.  However I think some other teams will be a lot better. We basically signed an all star this offseason in Hayward (though coming off injury) and will see the same growth from Tatum and brown that they will see from their young guys. Toronto got a major upgrade in Leonard over demar plus a sneaky add in Danny green for the playoffs. Indiana also had a very good offseason bringing in tyreke Evans as a second ball handler and scored to compliment oladipo (he would have been great on philly). I've never said it was devastating the 76ers lost their bench guys, but it certainly hurts a little and could get them one seed lower for the playoffs which matters in a competitive conference.


Re: Then it was just the 76ers
« Reply #43 on: July 19, 2018, 11:38:22 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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The Kawhi acquisition does close the gap a bit between them & the Celtics. 

But, fully healthy, the Celtics are still the cream of the crop of the East right now.  The only way I don't see them being in the '19 NBA Finals is if the injury bug hits them again. 

TOR/PHI is an interesting debate.  I think the Kawhi acquisition puts them a notch above PHI.   Sixers didn't exactly do a whole lot to help themselves this offseason.


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Re: Then it was just the 76ers
« Reply #44 on: July 19, 2018, 11:41:02 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Think Philly took a step back this offseason so far..lost Bellinelli and Ersan..added no one except draft players
Don't think losing Belli and Ersan, who were post trade deadline pickups, is much of a loss.  They picked up Wilson Chandler via trade. 

You can tell you're definitely a Sixers fan with this one!

The Sixers went 20-3 with Ilyasova both and Belinelli and were 32-27 prior to their arrival. They providing spacing and high IQ play, things that will heavily missed.

Chandler isn't the best on that team. As his athletic ability has waned, his best position now is small ball 4, positions that Simmons and Saric are also best suited for. In addition, his ability to stretch the floor isn't that good. His last 4 seasons he's shot the following from 3:

34.8
34.2
33.7
35.8

Their spacing is definitely going to take a huge hit!

Strong post eddie.
come on now, you have been going on for months about the Sixers schedule down the stretch sucked.  Which is it, did the schedule suck or were Ilyasova and Bellinelli the key to that success?  You can't have it both ways.
Why can't you have it both ways? multiple things go into a hot stretch.

Yea exactly. Confused why someone would think this was an either or?
The Sixers won the 5 games directly preceding Belinelli joining the team (and 6 of 7), the loss was to the Pacers, but they had wins over Miami, Washington, New Orleans, and LAC.  Won his 1st game, but lost the next 2 before they beat Cleveland then Ilyasova joined the team. They went 3-3 in Ilyasova's first 6 games before winning 16 straight to close out the season.  It should also be noted that the Sixers were at one point 15-19 on the season.  When Belinelli signed on they were 30-25, so they had gone 15-6 in their prior 21 games.

Given that, I don't see how anyone could claim that the Sixers were winning because of Belinelli and Ilyasova.  It is an absolutely ridiculous position to take.