Author Topic: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League  (Read 2061 times)

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Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2018, 11:13:02 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I remember many wanted Bender over Brown....phew, glad we have Danny.

I agree,  i never ever wanted Bender

I admit i did not see Brown pick coming . 

I think the choices have been better the MOrE input CBS has .

Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2018, 11:26:31 AM »

Offline footey

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Quote
Imagine if Ainge picked bender over brown...

Ainge would not have made that mistake.   Because all the signs were out there on Bender if you watched his tape and were honest.   But guys fall for the hype train every year.  Ainge is not usually one of them.   But you could see Bender was not athletic and had little in common with the Porzingas other than height.   His vertical when he was drafted was horrible.  His max vertical was like 27.5" inches.   That is not his standing vertical but his max with a run and for a professional athlete is it very bad.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Dragan-Bender-62877/

That told me that he did not have a very good athletic base to grow into and would struggle against NBA athletes because he lacked fast twitch muscles.  He was is also skinny and weak so he could not offset this stuff with strength like some guys can.  Some guys saw this and projected greatness, and they were wrong.

Everyone knows Jackson can't shoot and still can't he is a taller Marcus Smart.
Completely agree that Bender being a complete bust was a very likely scenario given everything that was available for us amatuers to see. How professionals didn't see it is beyond me but some agents do a great job of hiding their clients and getting media to hype their clients.

Bender
Exum
Mudiay

All were major hypes in the media that just could not and would not hold up to that hype.

Wiggins
Fultz

The list could be a long one.

I have had my fair share of bad guesses. Have yet to meet the person who has not. Certainly not on this site.

Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2018, 11:46:01 AM »

Offline JHTruth

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Come on who didn't see Bust Bender coming. The guy is a **** Bambi out there. No aggression at all.

Jackson still has some upside but he needs to be better this year no doubt

Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2018, 11:51:57 AM »

Offline Smartacus

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I was a Jamal Murray guy the year we got Jaylen, and even though things have gone well with Murray of course I'm ecstatic that we have Jaylen and wouldn't go back and change things if given the chance. I was high on bender early in the process, but at that point I thought we still had a chance to develop Kelly Olynyk so I shifted focus to to Murray.

I will say last year I was high on Lauri Markkanen and even though Tatum has been the second coming and again there's no looking back Markkanen could have been  a  perfect fit here  and has already proven to be the guy that many expected Bender would be albeit with more shot creation and less defense and playmaking.

Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2018, 11:59:03 AM »

Offline footey

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Come on who didn't see Bust Bender coming. The guy is a **** Bambi out there. No aggression at all.

Jackson still has some upside but he needs to be better this year no doubt

A lot (not all) of the folk who claim they saw it coming with Bender are the same who saw Porzingis was going to be a bust.  Be real.

I was a big proponent of Porzingis a year before he came into the draft. Was hoping we could get him with our 17th pick (the one used on James Young). Unfortunately he pulled out.

I thought Bender was very intriguing. I did not like him as much as Porzingis, but I thought he was a prototype stretch 4/5, with nice shooting stroke from 3, and pretty good quickness for a guy his size.  Looks like I was wrong.  (By the way, I also liked Jaylen Brown a lot, and was very happy when we took him at 3, and did not trade the pick).

Still think Bender is too young to declare a bust.  Probably could be gotten for a cheap price, and, if the price is right, and with good coaching, could see turning out to be decent. 

Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2018, 12:02:09 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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Come on who didn't see Bust Bender coming. The guy is a **** Bambi out there. No aggression at all.

Jackson still has some upside but he needs to be better this year no doubt

A lot (not all) of the folk who claim they saw it coming with Bender are the same who saw Porzingis was going to be a bust.  Be real.

I was a big proponent of Porzingis a year before he came into the draft. Was hoping we could get him with our 17th pick (the one used on James Young). Unfortunately he pulled out.

I thought Bender was very intriguing. I did not like him as much as Porzingis, but I thought he was a prototype stretch 4/5, with nice shooting stroke from 3, and pretty good quickness for a guy his size.  Looks like I was wrong.  (By the way, I also liked Jaylen Brown a lot, and was very happy when we took him at 3, and did not trade the pick).

Still think Bender is too young to declare a bust.  Probably could be gotten for a cheap price, and, if the price is right, and with good coaching, could see turning out to be decent.

Bender never looked anything like Zinger to me. Totally different players in every way. I live in Phoenix and I hated the Bender pick from Day 1

Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2018, 12:08:29 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I think Bender needs to go play in Europe for a few years and then try to come back after he's developed his game and regained his confidence.

I believed in Bender as a prospect, not as a superstar, but as a potentially really valuable glue guy, a stretch 4-5 who could do a bit of everything and defend multiple positions.

The Suns were just about the worst place for him to end up as a rookie, and his development has gone off the rails.  Maybe he would have been a bust regardless, but I tend to believe that a team that drafts a player has a lot of responsibility for giving a player the best shot at finding a place in the league.  The Suns ... haven't done that. 

If you put Bender on the Celts from Day 1, maybe he looks like a younger Daniel Theis or something.

If you put Jaylen Brown on the Suns, how would that have gone?  I think he would have struggled.
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Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2018, 12:14:40 PM »

Online saltlover

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I liked Bender’s potential heading into the draft, but I was on record as saying I’d only take him at #3 on the condition he stayed overseas for at least another season, and preferably two.  He clearly wasn’t ready for the NBA, and now he still isn’t even as the clock on his rookie deal is quickly ticking away.  I was also very happy to take Brown, who by draft night had become my #3 behind Simmons and Ingram.  But Bender needed more time to develop before coming to th NBA, and that is playing out in a bad way for both him and the Suns.
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Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2018, 12:44:41 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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I think Bender needs to go play in Europe for a few years and then try to come back after he's developed his game and regained his confidence.

I believed in Bender as a prospect, not as a superstar, but as a potentially really valuable glue guy, a stretch 4-5 who could do a bit of everything and defend multiple positions.

The Suns were just about the worst place for him to end up as a rookie, and his development has gone off the rails.  Maybe he would have been a bust regardless, but I tend to believe that a team that drafts a player has a lot of responsibility for giving a player the best shot at finding a place in the league.  The Suns ... haven't done that. 

If you put Bender on the Celts from Day 1, maybe he looks like a younger Daniel Theis or something.

If you put Jaylen Brown on the Suns, how would that have gone?  I think he would have struggled.

The Celtics have proven themselves one of the best talent development squads in the league. Rozier/Brown/Tatum even Semi are playing minutes for an ECF squad..

Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2018, 01:06:03 PM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

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I liked Bender’s potential heading into the draft, but I was on record as saying I’d only take him at #3 on the condition he stayed overseas for at least another season, and preferably two.  He clearly wasn’t ready for the NBA, and now he still isn’t even as the clock on his rookie deal is quickly ticking away.  I was also very happy to take Brown, who by draft night had become my #3 behind Simmons and Ingram.  But Bender needed more time to develop before coming to th NBA, and that is playing out in a bad way for both him and the Suns.

We both argued for Bender pre-draft. At worst, I thought he could be a better Jonas Jerebko. His career arc right now is not trending in a good direction.

Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2018, 01:41:11 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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 In fairness to Bender, he's still 2 years younger than Jonas was when he entered the league.
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Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2018, 01:53:52 PM »

Offline Androslav

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I am still a believer, even though I am far from satisfied. I will be untill that boy is 25 and not functional in any shape or form. I rationalize this by blaming poor Phoenix management/coaching and their directionless leadership.
Since 2010 WCF they have been one of the worst NBA franchises by all accounts. IMO, they have blew it this off-season too.

He probably is their best passer and stretch big on the team. That says something about him and a lot about Phoenix.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 02:47:00 PM by Androslav »
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Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2018, 01:57:33 PM »

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1) Totally glad we took Jaylen Brown over Bender or any of the other choices.   Jaylen came into the league with an NBA body and has seemed like a great fit for what this team needed very quickly.  Looks like he could be an All-NBA defender as early as this coming season.   Easily worth that #3 pick.

2) 'Would have been fine if Danny had picked Bender though -- he just would have been a much longer term project who would not have been expected to contribute anywhere near as much as Brown so soon.  He's still too physically raw.  People forget that he's still not going to be 21 years old until this coming November.  He's younger than half the kids who just got drafted.

3) He played over 2000 minutes this last regular season and shot a solid 36.6% on threes and a decent overall scoring efficiency of .524 TS.   I don't think his current 'development' is really reflected by 110 minutes of Summer League scrimmage where he wasn't really there to be featured or anything.

May still turn out to be a bust.  But based on normal measures and considering his age, he's kind of 'on track' to not be a bust.
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Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2018, 02:02:18 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I believed in Bender as a prospect, not as a superstar, but as a potentially really valuable glue guy, a stretch 4-5 who could do a bit of everything and defend multiple positions.

And we could still see this. I think the two worst things that happened to Bender were the Suns drafting another PF (Chriss) in the same draft and the coaching carousel that continues in Phoenix (they're going on their 3rd coach in as many seasons). I would love to know how Bender would look if he had gone to a team like Boston, SA, or even Miami (with their widely respected conditioning program). That said, there have been some flashes (see video below) and he's still only 20, which is the same age as Williams, 2 years younger than Yabusele, and 3 years younger than Semi. So he's far from a finished project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3iAkuFsQ-o

Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2018, 02:10:10 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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Eddie20 what happened?