Poll

Does Yabs have an NBA future?

No, I thought he was the French Draymond but he's the French Jared Sullinger.
20 (52.6%)
Yes, he the Dancing freaking Bear!
13 (34.2%)
I'm against the French stealing American jobs.
5 (13.2%)

Total Members Voted: 37

Author Topic: Yabusele three years later... What's the verdict?  (Read 5589 times)

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Re: Yabusele three years later... What's the verdict?
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2018, 09:05:51 AM »

Online Roy H.

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My take is that if he was on a less-disciplined team and got the playing time, he'd be in the upper teens in scoring.

If he played for a scoring-starved team last year like the Kings, Hawks, etc., people would be considering him an upper talent.
i

What are you basing this on? He’s an inefficient scorer even in the summer league.  I’d be surprised to see him scoring at 16+ ppg even on a bad team.


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Re: Yabusele three years later... What's the verdict?
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2018, 09:11:02 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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He looked pretty great and showed flashes in summer league. If he was cracking another teams rotation I think he’d turn a few heads. Not all start super star level but he’d be doing good things off the bench for the Kings, Hawks, Bulls, Suns.

Re: Yabusele three years later... What's the verdict?
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2018, 09:15:01 AM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

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My take is that if he was on a less-disciplined team and got the playing time, he'd be in the upper teens in scoring.

If he played for a scoring-starved team last year like the Kings, Hawks, etc., people would be considering him an upper talent.
i

What are you basing this on? He’s an inefficient scorer even in the summer league.  I’d be surprised to see him scoring at 16+ ppg even on a bad team.

Basketball is a game of rhythm. It's widely recognized that in summer league, big men struggle to get into rhythm.

I just see a lot of scoring talent. Just with his 3 point shooting and ability to attack closeouts, I could see him getting buckets. Combine that with offensive rebounds and post touches.

I fully recognize that we haven't seen the production for that, but I'm saying i've seen enough to think he has the talent for that.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 09:42:38 AM by DefenseWinsChamps »

Re: Yabusele three years later... What's the verdict?
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2018, 09:28:31 AM »

Offline Chief

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He's too short and too fat.

Trade him if u can.
Once you are labeled 'the best' you want to stay up there, and you can't do it by loafing around.
 
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Re: Yabusele three years later... What's the verdict?
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2018, 09:51:04 AM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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My take is that if he was on a less-disciplined team and got the playing time, he'd be in the upper teens in scoring.

If he played for a scoring-starved team last year like the Kings, Hawks, etc., people would be considering him an upper talent.
i

What are you basing this on? He’s an inefficient scorer even in the summer league.  I’d be surprised to see him scoring at 16+ ppg even on a bad team.

Basketball is a game of rhythm. It's widely recognized that in summer league, big men struggle to get into rhythm.

I just see a lot of scoring talent. Just with his 3 point shooting and ability to attack closeouts, I could see him getting buckets. Combine that with offensive rebounds and post touches.

I fully recognize that we haven't seen the production for that, but I'm saying i've seen enough to think he has the talent for that.
He also made some good passes too. Someone making that kind of money and saying he needs to get into shape is my concern. I think if he worked as hard as Theis he could be an NBA player. I don't see the effort like i did not with Sully. Where's the fire?
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Re: Yabusele three years later... What's the verdict?
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2018, 10:08:06 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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I'm not going to bury him after summer league.  let's see how he looks in training camp and preseason playing with actual nba-caliber players. 

I'm not expecting much from him except further development this season.  If he's not showing any promise going into next training camp after another year with the team, then I'd consider him a lost pick.  same timeframe I waited for Young to show he could be of value.

Re: Yabusele three years later... What's the verdict?
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2018, 10:10:30 AM »

Offline RJ87

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My vote is "other". I never expected much out of him and thought a lot of posters overrated him, and I haven't seen anything to make me second guess that.
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Re: Yabusele three years later... What's the verdict?
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2018, 11:19:09 AM »

Offline JHTruth

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If sully had that physique, we'd have ourselves a nice 4! Sully was really awesome in some ways ... but physique was not one of them. Held him back and cut his career.

Sully had skills, his physical limitations did him in. Guy was just too ground bound

Not really physical limitations either... he did just fine with his body before, was a plus player according to the eye test and stats...he just ate his way out of the league

I was watching some Sully clips from 2015, dude looked like he was playing in slow-motion. Like he was playing in a Godzilla costume or something..

Re: Yabusele three years later... What's the verdict?
« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2018, 11:20:32 AM »

Offline Kuberski33

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He has shown occasional flashes of having ability - he'll throw a couple of nice passes, hit a 3 with good form, takes it to the hoop with some quickness/agility that guys his size just don't have - and he is physical, a trait this team could certainly use more of.  All of that is probably what enticed Ainge to begin with.

The problem is it's only flashes and there are large chunks of time where he does nothing except take and miss a lot of shots.  It's too bad this wasn't European soccer where they could loan him out to the Nets for a full season so he'd get lots of minutes.

I don't see him improving much with the amount of PT he's going to get here.  He needs to play and play against NBA competition.

Re: Yabusele three years later... What's the verdict?
« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2018, 12:21:42 PM »

Offline boscel33

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Your fourth option should have been "too early still".

His first year was in China, where according to the C's, he picked up a lot of bad habits, specifically on D.

Last year was his second year, and although he would show something every now and then, it was tough sledding.

I saw him in Vegas, and it looks like he has improved from last year (although it looks like his vertical leap is less than that of a turtle), I'm not holding my breath.  He'll be dealt along the way some where....
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Re: Yabusele three years later... What's the verdict?
« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2018, 12:39:56 PM »

Offline footey

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Pretty disappointed in Yabu this summer. Seems the same guy who played two summers ago. Thought he’d be able to attack more with the ball.

Re: Yabusele three years later... What's the verdict?
« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2018, 12:59:52 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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The thread title says "three years later" -  what?! He was drafted two years ago. 

As far as a verdict goes, I'd say that he's an NBA player, with upside as a rotation player. He has an unusual build/skillset, which is an advantage. I don't think that his body will last at this level into his early 30's, maybe less.

As far as his future with the Celtics goes, I'd predict that he at least finishes the year. They think that he can make decisions, initiate offense, and shoot with range.

I just see a lot of scoring talent. Just with his 3 point shooting and ability to attack closeouts, I could see him getting buckets. Combine that with offensive rebounds and post touches.

I'll take these in order.

We could quibble about what "a lot of scoring talent" amounts to; I wouldn't say it that way. He does have a couple of ways to score. Big hands and great feet, good handles for his size, has some ability to drive it. If you believe the tiny sample size, he finished really well.

In spot minutes before the All-Star break, he looked like a reliable 3-pt shooter (.364) and an exceptional offensive rebounder (12.6%). After the break he averaged low rotation minutes and those numbers came down to earth. Because of the tougher defense playing against rotation players? Random drift? Rookie wall? All of the above?

Post touches? I'm skeptical. More likely is the new wrinkle that we saw in Summer League: they used him at the top of the circle as a facilitator, and with some success, too.  He got a couple of nice assists out of it... That looks like a good role for him, initiating the offense à la Olynyk.

You did not mention his production at the foul line. He got to the line a lot for the possessions he used; he was a C-minus free throw shooter for the year, though A-minus after the break.

I fully recognize that we haven't seen the production for that, but I'm saying i've seen enough to think he has the talent for that.

I'd agree that he has the talent for it, and I'm with you when I say that at these sample sizes you've got to do some careful looking.

The sample sizes are tiny. There's a tendency on forums like this to put too much weight on FG%s and 3-pt %s, and regardless of how many shots we're looking at. (That's not an argument that he's actually in truth some kind of great shooter, either!). My rule of thumb is, what does the % look like if you add or subtract two or three makes? There's enough random stuff that goes on during a game and during a season that you need to look at a range, and that gives you a better sense of what to expect in future.

For the year he shot 12/37 for .324; that's below average but it's also about a point per shot, which is acceptable production for a possession. If he made 9/37 that would be .243; if he made 15/37 that would be .405 - that's a huge range, so the first thing to take away from his actual number is that it does not give you a good idea of his shooting. He's somewhere between catastrophic and golden.

Great footwork and size should translate into better individual defense and especially defensive rebounding.  The defensive rebounding is critical for his future, and he's got a ways to go - with his butt, he really ought to be better at it. I thought he looked clueless on D in Summer League 2016, and especially during early offense, so he's advanced a fair amount, I'd say. "Better but not good."
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 01:07:05 PM by Hoopvortex »
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Re: Yabusele three years later... What's the verdict?
« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2018, 01:01:00 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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Your fourth option should have been "too early still".

His first year was in China, where according to the C's, he picked up a lot of bad habits, specifically on D.

Last year was his second year, and although he would show something every now and then, it was tough sledding.

I saw him in Vegas, and it looks like he has improved from last year (although it looks like his vertical leap is less than that of a turtle), I'm not holding my breath.  He'll be dealt along the way some where....
Since you were there in person, I'd love to get more details.  From what I saw he is the same player...no improvement.

Re: Yabusele three years later... What's the verdict?
« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2018, 01:23:56 PM »

Offline bogg

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Guy just finished up his rookie year. Most outside-the-lottery developmental projects don't get a final verdict before they've even made it to their second training camp.

Re: Yabusele three years later... What's the verdict?
« Reply #44 on: July 16, 2018, 01:29:01 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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The thread title says "three years later" -  what?! He was drafted two years ago. 

As far as a verdict goes, I'd say that he's an NBA player, with upside as a rotation player. He has an unusual build/skillset, which is an advantage. I don't think that his body will last at this level into his early 30's, maybe less.

As far as his future with the Celtics goes, I'd predict that he at least finishes the year. They think that he can make decisions, initiate offense, and shoot with range.

I just see a lot of scoring talent. Just with his 3 point shooting and ability to attack closeouts, I could see him getting buckets. Combine that with offensive rebounds and post touches.

I'll take these in order.

We could quibble about what "a lot of scoring talent" amounts to; I wouldn't say it that way. He does have a couple of ways to score. Big hands and great feet, good handles for his size, has some ability to drive it. If you believe the tiny sample size, he finished really well.

In spot minutes before the All-Star break, he looked like a reliable 3-pt shooter (.364) and an exceptional offensive rebounder (12.6%). After the break he averaged low rotation minutes and those numbers came down to earth. Because of the tougher defense playing against rotation players? Random drift? Rookie wall? All of the above?

Post touches? I'm skeptical. More likely is the new wrinkle that we saw in Summer League: they used him at the top of the circle as a facilitator, and with some success, too.  He got a couple of nice assists out of it... That looks like a good role for him, initiating the offense à la Olynyk.

You did not mention his production at the foul line. He got to the line a lot for the possessions he used; he was a C-minus free throw shooter for the year, though A-minus after the break.

I fully recognize that we haven't seen the production for that, but I'm saying i've seen enough to think he has the talent for that.

I'd agree that he has the talent for it, and I'm with you when I say that at these sample sizes you've got to do some careful looking.

The sample sizes are tiny. There's a tendency on forums like this to put too much weight on FG%s and 3-pt %s, and regardless of how many shots we're looking at. (That's not an argument that he's actually in truth some kind of great shooter, either!). My rule of thumb is, what does the % look like if you add or subtract two or three makes? There's enough random stuff that goes on during a game and during a season that you need to look at a range, and that gives you a better sense of what to expect in future.

For the year he shot 12/37 for .324; that's below average but it's also about a point per shot, which is acceptable production for a possession. If he made 9/37 that would be .243; if he made 15/37 that would be .405 - that's a huge range, so the first thing to take away from his actual number is that it does not give you a good idea of his shooting. He's somewhere between catastrophic and golden.

Great footwork and size should translate into better individual defense and especially defensive rebounding.  The defensive rebounding is critical for his future, and he's got a ways to go - with his butt, he really ought to be better at it. I thought he looked clueless on D in Summer League 2016, and especially during early offense, so he's advanced a fair amount, I'd say. "Better but not good."

I think this is the only way he'll carve out a role in the NBA from what I can see. Playmaking at the top of the key. He'll get eaten up down low but maybe from the high post he can do some damage..