Author Topic: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit  (Read 8703 times)

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Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #330 on: July 23, 2018, 10:41:53 AM »

Online Roy H.

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country who hasn't attacked America = Mad Online threats + vitriol

More like “the country that had just threatened America”. 

Also, Iran is a state sponsor of terror, and allegedly was complicit in the 9/11, USS Cole, and US Embassy attacks. In other words, they’ve attacked America.

Trump is very weak on Russia. That doesn’t that Iran should be handled softly.

Iran is truly an American foe and also a foe to democracy in general.  That does not mean that Trump's unhinged tweet is the way that I want to see our country dealing with them.  I actually thought that forming a world-wide coalition, imposing sanctions as a unified group, and then negotiating what was a fairly reasonable (but by no mean perfect) nuclear deal was a much better approach.  So you think Trump's diplomacy by tweet is better?

And doesn't this make it even more clear that there is something fishy with Trump and Russia?  He lashes out at any other country, including Canada but not one word about Russia?

Oh, I agree. When the average person has an ALLCAPS rant, they look crazy. When the President does it it’s disgraceful.  I don’t want to get too much into Iran policy, I just object to describing Iran as “a country that hasn’t attacked America”.

And I’ve got no idea why Trump is glad-handing Putin. It may be self-interest, it may be insecurity about the legitimacy of his election, it may be some strategy that he wants peace with at least one of our enemies. Whatever it is, it’s a terrible idea.


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Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #331 on: July 23, 2018, 01:32:37 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Quote
country who hasn't attacked America = Mad Online threats + vitriol

More like “the country that had just threatened America”. 

Also, Iran is a state sponsor of terror, and allegedly was complicit in the 9/11, USS Cole, and US Embassy attacks. In other words, they’ve attacked America.

Trump is very weak on Russia. That doesn’t that Iran should be handled softly.

The Cole and Embassy attacks are certainly fair but also 18 and 38 years old. We might as well go back to installing the Shah if we're classifying things that way.

Iran's not a good actor by any means but they aren't currently doing anything we're aware of at the moment save the usual generic saber-rattling (and of course the umpteen war crimes every Middle East actor, and us, are engaged in at any given moment away from the Western press). There's also plenty of middle ground between "handle softly" and "all-caps middle of the night Tweet". But it's the contrast that was the point - rage wildly at rhetoric while repeatedly covering for an actual recent and ongoing attack.

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #332 on: July 23, 2018, 01:55:51 PM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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Well, well, well....

https://thenationalsentinel.com/2018/07/22/james-clapper-comes-clean-says-obama-behind-trump-campaign-witch-hunt/

I explored and found what I could in terms of direct quotes from Clapper re: the interview referred to. Seems to me he said almost the opposite of what is claimed in the article you posted.  Sorry — I only have phone with me and don’t know how to link.  But Clapper actually said that Obama should be credited with getting the wheels turning on Russia meddling and that it is in no way a witch hunt. 

Someone better skilled than I am at this type of research maybe could link actual in-context quotes from Clapper or perhaps the video alluded to in Greenback’s post.  I will readily admit if I have it wrong, but my 20 minutes of searching for Clappers actual words left me with the opposite conclusion portrayed in the article Greenback posted.

Right-wing media is a bottomless well of bad faith, deceptively edited film at 11.

I think you typed “Right-wing” when you meant “Partisan political”.

Nope.

Then you’re no better than those you’re criticizing.
I think he is.  TP to FWF for being one of the most reasonable people in the current event forums.

Reasonable in an echo chamber / confirmation bias sort of way. I think FWF would admit that he’s closer to left than center.  The fact that he only sees bad faith in right wing media speaks quite loudly to his bias. The fact that you agree says something about your own.

I read a lot of Huff Post, Kos, Mother Jones, and plenty of others. To not see bad faith or intentional misleading is comical, similar to not seeing it on Breitbart.
not getting into a debate with you Roy -- your biases have been on display for quite a while and you've shown far more bias than FWF in your commentary. 

another TP for FWF for fighting the good fight.

Oh, I’m clearly a dedicated conservative and Republican.

I’m also unbiased enough to know that both sides of the partisan political media act in bad faith. If you think Sean Hannity is the devil but see no problem with Rachel Maddox, you’re part of the problem.
One of these two reports on a real life international scandal starring our president.
One of  these two does everything they can to discredit the institutions and investigators that are defending our nation against an ongoing attack.
Keep up the false equivalency, what’s the worst that could happen.
One

I mean, this attitude pretty much sums up politics today:  I don't care if I'm being lied to / misled, so long as I'm being told what I want to hear.

Rachel Maddow doesn't "report" on anything.  She skews facts to fit an agenda.  So does Hannity.  So does Breitbart.  So does Mother Jones.  So does Daily Caller.  So does Huffington Post.
that's where I think you're missing the point Roy.  People can call out Trump for the crap/lies he spews and the people/organizations that support him without being "for" the other side.  lies are lies Roy and there's nothing wrong with calling them out.  (there's no issue with traditional Republicans or Conservatism--> this is very Trump-focussed issue with these debates.  Where he's taken the Republican party is to new policies truly alien to prior Republican administrations and leadership --> I mean come on -- since when have Republicans not been pro-FBI/Law Enforcement AND Anti-Russia/Communism AND pro-free trade?)

This is what gets me.
The willingness to turn away from bedrock  principles, undercut institutions and and disparage individuals who have devoted their careers to America, because some carnival barker, snake oil salesman declares he, and he alone is in the right.
For what purpose?
To cement a conservative court that will undercut individual freedom (isn’t that another bedrock principle? Or does the right to govern your own body only belong to men?)

The hypocrisy is astounding.

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #333 on: July 23, 2018, 02:14:17 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Well, well, well....

https://thenationalsentinel.com/2018/07/22/james-clapper-comes-clean-says-obama-behind-trump-campaign-witch-hunt/

I explored and found what I could in terms of direct quotes from Clapper re: the interview referred to. Seems to me he said almost the opposite of what is claimed in the article you posted.  Sorry — I only have phone with me and don’t know how to link.  But Clapper actually said that Obama should be credited with getting the wheels turning on Russia meddling and that it is in no way a witch hunt. 

Someone better skilled than I am at this type of research maybe could link actual in-context quotes from Clapper or perhaps the video alluded to in Greenback’s post.  I will readily admit if I have it wrong, but my 20 minutes of searching for Clappers actual words left me with the opposite conclusion portrayed in the article Greenback posted.

Right-wing media is a bottomless well of bad faith, deceptively edited film at 11.

I think you typed “Right-wing” when you meant “Partisan political”.

Nope.

Then you’re no better than those you’re criticizing.
I think he is.  TP to FWF for being one of the most reasonable people in the current event forums.

Reasonable in an echo chamber / confirmation bias sort of way. I think FWF would admit that he’s closer to left than center.  The fact that he only sees bad faith in right wing media speaks quite loudly to his bias. The fact that you agree says something about your own.

I read a lot of Huff Post, Kos, Mother Jones, and plenty of others. To not see bad faith or intentional misleading is comical, similar to not seeing it on Breitbart.
not getting into a debate with you Roy -- your biases have been on display for quite a while and you've shown far more bias than FWF in your commentary. 

another TP for FWF for fighting the good fight.

Oh, I’m clearly a dedicated conservative and Republican.

I’m also unbiased enough to know that both sides of the partisan political media act in bad faith. If you think Sean Hannity is the devil but see no problem with Rachel Maddox, you’re part of the problem.
One of these two reports on a real life international scandal starring our president.
One of  these two does everything they can to discredit the institutions and investigators that are defending our nation against an ongoing attack.
Keep up the false equivalency, what’s the worst that could happen.
One

I mean, this attitude pretty much sums up politics today:  I don't care if I'm being lied to / misled, so long as I'm being told what I want to hear.

Rachel Maddow doesn't "report" on anything.  She skews facts to fit an agenda.  So does Hannity.  So does Breitbart.  So does Mother Jones.  So does Daily Caller.  So does Huffington Post.
that's where I think you're missing the point Roy.  People can call out Trump for the crap/lies he spews and the people/organizations that support him without being "for" the other side.  lies are lies Roy and there's nothing wrong with calling them out.  (there's no issue with traditional Republicans or Conservatism--> this is very Trump-focussed issue with these debates.  Where he's taken the Republican party is to new policies truly alien to prior Republican administrations and leadership --> I mean come on -- since when have Republicans not been pro-FBI/Law Enforcement AND Anti-Russia/Communism AND pro-free trade?)

This is what gets me.
The willingness to turn away from bedrock  principles, undercut institutions and and disparage individuals who have devoted their careers to America, because some carnival barker, snake oil salesman declares he, and he alone is in the right.
For what purpose?
To cement a conservative court that will undercut individual freedom (isn’t that another bedrock principle? Or does the right to govern your own body only belong to men?)

The hypocrisy is astounding.

What do you think Republicans in Congress should do? Give up on a Republican agenda to spite Trump and GOP voters?

The man is President. Should Republicans refuse the opportunity to pass tax cuts, reduce regulations, defend the border, protect religious freedom, confirm conservative judges and Justices, etc.?

And abortion discussion is not permitted here, but describing unborn children as simply parts of a woman’s body isn’t going to change a lot of Trump voters’ minds, either.

My guess is that the majority of voters would select somebody who professes to agree with them — even if a buffoonish, self-enriching liar — over a more reasonable person with a different ideology.

And lol at “bedrock principles”. Seriously, do most Democrats even believe in them? Because I keep hearing about an “evolving”, “living, breathing” Constitution. I see liberal protesters shouting down those exercising their First Amendment rights, calls for repeal of the Second Amendment, liberal judges erasing the meaning of the Ninth and Tenth Amendment, the bashing of originalist Justices like Scalia, the redefining of social institutions like marriage, the subjugation of religious freedom, the vilification of the police and military, sanctuary cities that defy the rule of law, etc.   

What “bedrock principles” do you believe in that existed prior to 1973 or so?  The FBI? Was that before or after it was being slammed for costing Hillary the election? Before or after McCabe was recommended to becriminally prosecuted? Before or after Comey leaked confidential memos to the press? Before or after Peter Strzok played a key part in the investigations of Hillary and Trump despite being deeply personally biased?
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 02:34:21 PM by Roy H. »


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DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #334 on: July 23, 2018, 03:16:55 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Quote
country who hasn't attacked America = Mad Online threats + vitriol

More like “the country that had just threatened America”. 

Also, Iran is a state sponsor of terror, and allegedly was complicit in the 9/11, USS Cole, and US Embassy attacks. In other words, they’ve attacked America.

Trump is very weak on Russia. That doesn’t that Iran should be handled softly.

It's interesting that you trimmed down fwf's original quote to just the part about Iran, going off on just that part.    You trimmed the part about Russia and that get's left behind and ignored in the subsequent replies in the thread.

The original statement was:
Quote
So if we're keeping score, country who hasn't attacked America = Mad Online threats + vitriol, country who did = carrying water for the attackers, smearing and spreading conspiracies about American law enforcement for investigating it.
Intentionally on your part or not, this is a microcosm of Trump's intent with his Iran rant at work:  Change the subject away from Russia and the investigation.

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Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #335 on: July 23, 2018, 03:21:37 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Well, well, well....

https://thenationalsentinel.com/2018/07/22/james-clapper-comes-clean-says-obama-behind-trump-campaign-witch-hunt/

I explored and found what I could in terms of direct quotes from Clapper re: the interview referred to. Seems to me he said almost the opposite of what is claimed in the article you posted.  Sorry — I only have phone with me and don’t know how to link.  But Clapper actually said that Obama should be credited with getting the wheels turning on Russia meddling and that it is in no way a witch hunt. 

Someone better skilled than I am at this type of research maybe could link actual in-context quotes from Clapper or perhaps the video alluded to in Greenback’s post.  I will readily admit if I have it wrong, but my 20 minutes of searching for Clappers actual words left me with the opposite conclusion portrayed in the article Greenback posted.

Right-wing media is a bottomless well of bad faith, deceptively edited film at 11.

I think you typed “Right-wing” when you meant “Partisan political”.

Nope.

Then you’re no better than those you’re criticizing.
I think he is.  TP to FWF for being one of the most reasonable people in the current event forums.

Reasonable in an echo chamber / confirmation bias sort of way. I think FWF would admit that he’s closer to left than center.  The fact that he only sees bad faith in right wing media speaks quite loudly to his bias. The fact that you agree says something about your own.

I read a lot of Huff Post, Kos, Mother Jones, and plenty of others. To not see bad faith or intentional misleading is comical, similar to not seeing it on Breitbart.
not getting into a debate with you Roy -- your biases have been on display for quite a while and you've shown far more bias than FWF in your commentary. 

another TP for FWF for fighting the good fight.

Oh, I’m clearly a dedicated conservative and Republican.

I’m also unbiased enough to know that both sides of the partisan political media act in bad faith. If you think Sean Hannity is the devil but see no problem with Rachel Maddox, you’re part of the problem.
One of these two reports on a real life international scandal starring our president.
One of  these two does everything they can to discredit the institutions and investigators that are defending our nation against an ongoing attack.
Keep up the false equivalency, what’s the worst that could happen.
One

I mean, this attitude pretty much sums up politics today:  I don't care if I'm being lied to / misled, so long as I'm being told what I want to hear.

Rachel Maddow doesn't "report" on anything.  She skews facts to fit an agenda.  So does Hannity.  So does Breitbart.  So does Mother Jones.  So does Daily Caller.  So does Huffington Post.
that's where I think you're missing the point Roy.  People can call out Trump for the crap/lies he spews and the people/organizations that support him without being "for" the other side.  lies are lies Roy and there's nothing wrong with calling them out.  (there's no issue with traditional Republicans or Conservatism--> this is very Trump-focussed issue with these debates.  Where he's taken the Republican party is to new policies truly alien to prior Republican administrations and leadership --> I mean come on -- since when have Republicans not been pro-FBI/Law Enforcement AND Anti-Russia/Communism AND pro-free trade?)

This is what gets me.
The willingness to turn away from bedrock  principles, undercut institutions and and disparage individuals who have devoted their careers to America, because some carnival barker, snake oil salesman declares he, and he alone is in the right.
For what purpose?
To cement a conservative court that will undercut individual freedom (isn’t that another bedrock principle? Or does the right to govern your own body only belong to men?)

The hypocrisy is astounding.

What do you think Republicans in Congress should do? Give up on a Republican agenda to spite Trump and GOP voters?

The man is President. Should Republicans refuse the opportunity to pass tax cuts, reduce regulations, defend the border, protect religious freedom, confirm conservative judges and Justices, etc.?

I'm pretty sure the Republicans in Congress would have no trouble getting President Pence to sign their desired legislation and appoint the judges that they want.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.
#OneCitizenOneVote - True Election Reform:  Eliminate the anti-democratic Electoral College farce now.

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #336 on: July 23, 2018, 03:27:21 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Well, well, well....

https://thenationalsentinel.com/2018/07/22/james-clapper-comes-clean-says-obama-behind-trump-campaign-witch-hunt/

I explored and found what I could in terms of direct quotes from Clapper re: the interview referred to. Seems to me he said almost the opposite of what is claimed in the article you posted.  Sorry — I only have phone with me and don’t know how to link.  But Clapper actually said that Obama should be credited with getting the wheels turning on Russia meddling and that it is in no way a witch hunt. 

Someone better skilled than I am at this type of research maybe could link actual in-context quotes from Clapper or perhaps the video alluded to in Greenback’s post.  I will readily admit if I have it wrong, but my 20 minutes of searching for Clappers actual words left me with the opposite conclusion portrayed in the article Greenback posted.

Right-wing media is a bottomless well of bad faith, deceptively edited film at 11.

I think you typed “Right-wing” when you meant “Partisan political”.

Nope.

Then you’re no better than those you’re criticizing.
I think he is.  TP to FWF for being one of the most reasonable people in the current event forums.

Reasonable in an echo chamber / confirmation bias sort of way. I think FWF would admit that he’s closer to left than center.  The fact that he only sees bad faith in right wing media speaks quite loudly to his bias. The fact that you agree says something about your own.

I read a lot of Huff Post, Kos, Mother Jones, and plenty of others. To not see bad faith or intentional misleading is comical, similar to not seeing it on Breitbart.
not getting into a debate with you Roy -- your biases have been on display for quite a while and you've shown far more bias than FWF in your commentary. 

another TP for FWF for fighting the good fight.

Oh, I’m clearly a dedicated conservative and Republican.

I’m also unbiased enough to know that both sides of the partisan political media act in bad faith. If you think Sean Hannity is the devil but see no problem with Rachel Maddox, you’re part of the problem.
One of these two reports on a real life international scandal starring our president.
One of  these two does everything they can to discredit the institutions and investigators that are defending our nation against an ongoing attack.
Keep up the false equivalency, what’s the worst that could happen.
One

I mean, this attitude pretty much sums up politics today:  I don't care if I'm being lied to / misled, so long as I'm being told what I want to hear.

Rachel Maddow doesn't "report" on anything.  She skews facts to fit an agenda.  So does Hannity.  So does Breitbart.  So does Mother Jones.  So does Daily Caller.  So does Huffington Post.
that's where I think you're missing the point Roy.  People can call out Trump for the crap/lies he spews and the people/organizations that support him without being "for" the other side.  lies are lies Roy and there's nothing wrong with calling them out.  (there's no issue with traditional Republicans or Conservatism--> this is very Trump-focussed issue with these debates.  Where he's taken the Republican party is to new policies truly alien to prior Republican administrations and leadership --> I mean come on -- since when have Republicans not been pro-FBI/Law Enforcement AND Anti-Russia/Communism AND pro-free trade?)

This is what gets me.
The willingness to turn away from bedrock  principles, undercut institutions and and disparage individuals who have devoted their careers to America, because some carnival barker, snake oil salesman declares he, and he alone is in the right.
For what purpose?
To cement a conservative court that will undercut individual freedom (isn’t that another bedrock principle? Or does the right to govern your own body only belong to men?)

The hypocrisy is astounding.

What do you think Republicans in Congress should do? Give up on a Republican agenda to spite Trump and GOP voters?

The man is President. Should Republicans refuse the opportunity to pass tax cuts, reduce regulations, defend the border, protect religious freedom, confirm conservative judges and Justices, etc.?

I'm pretty sure the Republicans in Congress would have no trouble getting President Pence to sign their desired legislation and appoint the judges that they want.

I’m sure they’d love to. But, their voters spoke. You can’t impeach somebody because they’re a jerk, though.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #337 on: July 23, 2018, 03:56:04 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Well, well, well....

https://thenationalsentinel.com/2018/07/22/james-clapper-comes-clean-says-obama-behind-trump-campaign-witch-hunt/

I explored and found what I could in terms of direct quotes from Clapper re: the interview referred to. Seems to me he said almost the opposite of what is claimed in the article you posted.  Sorry — I only have phone with me and don’t know how to link.  But Clapper actually said that Obama should be credited with getting the wheels turning on Russia meddling and that it is in no way a witch hunt. 

Someone better skilled than I am at this type of research maybe could link actual in-context quotes from Clapper or perhaps the video alluded to in Greenback’s post.  I will readily admit if I have it wrong, but my 20 minutes of searching for Clappers actual words left me with the opposite conclusion portrayed in the article Greenback posted.

Right-wing media is a bottomless well of bad faith, deceptively edited film at 11.

I think you typed “Right-wing” when you meant “Partisan political”.

Nope.

Then you’re no better than those you’re criticizing.
I think he is.  TP to FWF for being one of the most reasonable people in the current event forums.

Reasonable in an echo chamber / confirmation bias sort of way. I think FWF would admit that he’s closer to left than center.  The fact that he only sees bad faith in right wing media speaks quite loudly to his bias. The fact that you agree says something about your own.

I read a lot of Huff Post, Kos, Mother Jones, and plenty of others. To not see bad faith or intentional misleading is comical, similar to not seeing it on Breitbart.
not getting into a debate with you Roy -- your biases have been on display for quite a while and you've shown far more bias than FWF in your commentary. 

another TP for FWF for fighting the good fight.

Oh, I’m clearly a dedicated conservative and Republican.

I’m also unbiased enough to know that both sides of the partisan political media act in bad faith. If you think Sean Hannity is the devil but see no problem with Rachel Maddox, you’re part of the problem.
One of these two reports on a real life international scandal starring our president.
One of  these two does everything they can to discredit the institutions and investigators that are defending our nation against an ongoing attack.
Keep up the false equivalency, what’s the worst that could happen.
One

I mean, this attitude pretty much sums up politics today:  I don't care if I'm being lied to / misled, so long as I'm being told what I want to hear.

Rachel Maddow doesn't "report" on anything.  She skews facts to fit an agenda.  So does Hannity.  So does Breitbart.  So does Mother Jones.  So does Daily Caller.  So does Huffington Post.
that's where I think you're missing the point Roy.  People can call out Trump for the crap/lies he spews and the people/organizations that support him without being "for" the other side.  lies are lies Roy and there's nothing wrong with calling them out.  (there's no issue with traditional Republicans or Conservatism--> this is very Trump-focussed issue with these debates.  Where he's taken the Republican party is to new policies truly alien to prior Republican administrations and leadership --> I mean come on -- since when have Republicans not been pro-FBI/Law Enforcement AND Anti-Russia/Communism AND pro-free trade?)

This is what gets me.
The willingness to turn away from bedrock  principles, undercut institutions and and disparage individuals who have devoted their careers to America, because some carnival barker, snake oil salesman declares he, and he alone is in the right.
For what purpose?
To cement a conservative court that will undercut individual freedom (isn’t that another bedrock principle? Or does the right to govern your own body only belong to men?)

The hypocrisy is astounding.

What do you think Republicans in Congress should do? Give up on a Republican agenda to spite Trump and GOP voters?

The man is President. Should Republicans refuse the opportunity to pass tax cuts, reduce regulations, defend the border, protect religious freedom, confirm conservative judges and Justices, etc.?

I'm pretty sure the Republicans in Congress would have no trouble getting President Pence to sign their desired legislation and appoint the judges that they want.

I’m sure they’d love to. But, their voters spoke. You can’t impeach somebody because they’re a jerk, though.
Incompetence?

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #338 on: July 23, 2018, 04:13:18 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Well, well, well....

https://thenationalsentinel.com/2018/07/22/james-clapper-comes-clean-says-obama-behind-trump-campaign-witch-hunt/

I explored and found what I could in terms of direct quotes from Clapper re: the interview referred to. Seems to me he said almost the opposite of what is claimed in the article you posted.  Sorry — I only have phone with me and don’t know how to link.  But Clapper actually said that Obama should be credited with getting the wheels turning on Russia meddling and that it is in no way a witch hunt. 

Someone better skilled than I am at this type of research maybe could link actual in-context quotes from Clapper or perhaps the video alluded to in Greenback’s post.  I will readily admit if I have it wrong, but my 20 minutes of searching for Clappers actual words left me with the opposite conclusion portrayed in the article Greenback posted.

Right-wing media is a bottomless well of bad faith, deceptively edited film at 11.

I think you typed “Right-wing” when you meant “Partisan political”.

Nope.

Then you’re no better than those you’re criticizing.
I think he is.  TP to FWF for being one of the most reasonable people in the current event forums.

Reasonable in an echo chamber / confirmation bias sort of way. I think FWF would admit that he’s closer to left than center.  The fact that he only sees bad faith in right wing media speaks quite loudly to his bias. The fact that you agree says something about your own.

I read a lot of Huff Post, Kos, Mother Jones, and plenty of others. To not see bad faith or intentional misleading is comical, similar to not seeing it on Breitbart.
not getting into a debate with you Roy -- your biases have been on display for quite a while and you've shown far more bias than FWF in your commentary. 

another TP for FWF for fighting the good fight.

Oh, I’m clearly a dedicated conservative and Republican.

I’m also unbiased enough to know that both sides of the partisan political media act in bad faith. If you think Sean Hannity is the devil but see no problem with Rachel Maddox, you’re part of the problem.
One of these two reports on a real life international scandal starring our president.
One of  these two does everything they can to discredit the institutions and investigators that are defending our nation against an ongoing attack.
Keep up the false equivalency, what’s the worst that could happen.
One

I mean, this attitude pretty much sums up politics today:  I don't care if I'm being lied to / misled, so long as I'm being told what I want to hear.

Rachel Maddow doesn't "report" on anything.  She skews facts to fit an agenda.  So does Hannity.  So does Breitbart.  So does Mother Jones.  So does Daily Caller.  So does Huffington Post.
that's where I think you're missing the point Roy.  People can call out Trump for the crap/lies he spews and the people/organizations that support him without being "for" the other side.  lies are lies Roy and there's nothing wrong with calling them out.  (there's no issue with traditional Republicans or Conservatism--> this is very Trump-focussed issue with these debates.  Where he's taken the Republican party is to new policies truly alien to prior Republican administrations and leadership --> I mean come on -- since when have Republicans not been pro-FBI/Law Enforcement AND Anti-Russia/Communism AND pro-free trade?)

This is what gets me.
The willingness to turn away from bedrock  principles, undercut institutions and and disparage individuals who have devoted their careers to America, because some carnival barker, snake oil salesman declares he, and he alone is in the right.
For what purpose?
To cement a conservative court that will undercut individual freedom (isn’t that another bedrock principle? Or does the right to govern your own body only belong to men?)

The hypocrisy is astounding.

What do you think Republicans in Congress should do? Give up on a Republican agenda to spite Trump and GOP voters?

The man is President. Should Republicans refuse the opportunity to pass tax cuts, reduce regulations, defend the border, protect religious freedom, confirm conservative judges and Justices, etc.?

I'm pretty sure the Republicans in Congress would have no trouble getting President Pence to sign their desired legislation and appoint the judges that they want.

I’m sure they’d love to. But, their voters spoke. You can’t impeach somebody because they’re a jerk, though.
Incompetence?

Sadly, I don’t think that’s enough. It basically seems limited to crimes. Ultimately they may have the goods on him, but they don’t now. So, Republicans try to get their agenda passed, while hoping that he can be reigned in.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #339 on: July 23, 2018, 04:22:31 PM »

Offline mmmmm

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3379
  • Tommy Points: 521
Well, well, well....

https://thenationalsentinel.com/2018/07/22/james-clapper-comes-clean-says-obama-behind-trump-campaign-witch-hunt/

I explored and found what I could in terms of direct quotes from Clapper re: the interview referred to. Seems to me he said almost the opposite of what is claimed in the article you posted.  Sorry — I only have phone with me and don’t know how to link.  But Clapper actually said that Obama should be credited with getting the wheels turning on Russia meddling and that it is in no way a witch hunt. 

Someone better skilled than I am at this type of research maybe could link actual in-context quotes from Clapper or perhaps the video alluded to in Greenback’s post.  I will readily admit if I have it wrong, but my 20 minutes of searching for Clappers actual words left me with the opposite conclusion portrayed in the article Greenback posted.

Right-wing media is a bottomless well of bad faith, deceptively edited film at 11.

I think you typed “Right-wing” when you meant “Partisan political”.

Nope.

Then you’re no better than those you’re criticizing.
I think he is.  TP to FWF for being one of the most reasonable people in the current event forums.

Reasonable in an echo chamber / confirmation bias sort of way. I think FWF would admit that he’s closer to left than center.  The fact that he only sees bad faith in right wing media speaks quite loudly to his bias. The fact that you agree says something about your own.

I read a lot of Huff Post, Kos, Mother Jones, and plenty of others. To not see bad faith or intentional misleading is comical, similar to not seeing it on Breitbart.
not getting into a debate with you Roy -- your biases have been on display for quite a while and you've shown far more bias than FWF in your commentary. 

another TP for FWF for fighting the good fight.

Oh, I’m clearly a dedicated conservative and Republican.

I’m also unbiased enough to know that both sides of the partisan political media act in bad faith. If you think Sean Hannity is the devil but see no problem with Rachel Maddox, you’re part of the problem.
One of these two reports on a real life international scandal starring our president.
One of  these two does everything they can to discredit the institutions and investigators that are defending our nation against an ongoing attack.
Keep up the false equivalency, what’s the worst that could happen.
One

I mean, this attitude pretty much sums up politics today:  I don't care if I'm being lied to / misled, so long as I'm being told what I want to hear.

Rachel Maddow doesn't "report" on anything.  She skews facts to fit an agenda.  So does Hannity.  So does Breitbart.  So does Mother Jones.  So does Daily Caller.  So does Huffington Post.
that's where I think you're missing the point Roy.  People can call out Trump for the crap/lies he spews and the people/organizations that support him without being "for" the other side.  lies are lies Roy and there's nothing wrong with calling them out.  (there's no issue with traditional Republicans or Conservatism--> this is very Trump-focussed issue with these debates.  Where he's taken the Republican party is to new policies truly alien to prior Republican administrations and leadership --> I mean come on -- since when have Republicans not been pro-FBI/Law Enforcement AND Anti-Russia/Communism AND pro-free trade?)

This is what gets me.
The willingness to turn away from bedrock  principles, undercut institutions and and disparage individuals who have devoted their careers to America, because some carnival barker, snake oil salesman declares he, and he alone is in the right.
For what purpose?
To cement a conservative court that will undercut individual freedom (isn’t that another bedrock principle? Or does the right to govern your own body only belong to men?)

The hypocrisy is astounding.

What do you think Republicans in Congress should do? Give up on a Republican agenda to spite Trump and GOP voters?

The man is President. Should Republicans refuse the opportunity to pass tax cuts, reduce regulations, defend the border, protect religious freedom, confirm conservative judges and Justices, etc.?

I'm pretty sure the Republicans in Congress would have no trouble getting President Pence to sign their desired legislation and appoint the judges that they want.

I’m sure they’d love to. But, their voters spoke. You can’t impeach somebody because they’re a jerk, though.
Incompetence?

Sadly, I don’t think that’s enough. It basically seems limited to crimes. Ultimately they may have the goods on him, but they don’t now. So, Republicans try to get their agenda passed, while hoping that he can be reigned in.

The deaths of ~5000 citizens due to negligence would seem 'criminal'.

The kidnapping of nearly 3000 innocent children would seem to be 'criminal'.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.
#OneCitizenOneVote - True Election Reform:  Eliminate the anti-democratic Electoral College farce now.

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #340 on: July 23, 2018, 04:24:46 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
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Well, well, well....

https://thenationalsentinel.com/2018/07/22/james-clapper-comes-clean-says-obama-behind-trump-campaign-witch-hunt/

I explored and found what I could in terms of direct quotes from Clapper re: the interview referred to. Seems to me he said almost the opposite of what is claimed in the article you posted.  Sorry — I only have phone with me and don’t know how to link.  But Clapper actually said that Obama should be credited with getting the wheels turning on Russia meddling and that it is in no way a witch hunt. 

Someone better skilled than I am at this type of research maybe could link actual in-context quotes from Clapper or perhaps the video alluded to in Greenback’s post.  I will readily admit if I have it wrong, but my 20 minutes of searching for Clappers actual words left me with the opposite conclusion portrayed in the article Greenback posted.

Right-wing media is a bottomless well of bad faith, deceptively edited film at 11.

I think you typed “Right-wing” when you meant “Partisan political”.

Nope.

Then you’re no better than those you’re criticizing.
I think he is.  TP to FWF for being one of the most reasonable people in the current event forums.

Reasonable in an echo chamber / confirmation bias sort of way. I think FWF would admit that he’s closer to left than center.  The fact that he only sees bad faith in right wing media speaks quite loudly to his bias. The fact that you agree says something about your own.

I read a lot of Huff Post, Kos, Mother Jones, and plenty of others. To not see bad faith or intentional misleading is comical, similar to not seeing it on Breitbart.
not getting into a debate with you Roy -- your biases have been on display for quite a while and you've shown far more bias than FWF in your commentary. 

another TP for FWF for fighting the good fight.

Oh, I’m clearly a dedicated conservative and Republican.

I’m also unbiased enough to know that both sides of the partisan political media act in bad faith. If you think Sean Hannity is the devil but see no problem with Rachel Maddox, you’re part of the problem.
One of these two reports on a real life international scandal starring our president.
One of  these two does everything they can to discredit the institutions and investigators that are defending our nation against an ongoing attack.
Keep up the false equivalency, what’s the worst that could happen.
One

I mean, this attitude pretty much sums up politics today:  I don't care if I'm being lied to / misled, so long as I'm being told what I want to hear.

Rachel Maddow doesn't "report" on anything.  She skews facts to fit an agenda.  So does Hannity.  So does Breitbart.  So does Mother Jones.  So does Daily Caller.  So does Huffington Post.
that's where I think you're missing the point Roy.  People can call out Trump for the crap/lies he spews and the people/organizations that support him without being "for" the other side.  lies are lies Roy and there's nothing wrong with calling them out.  (there's no issue with traditional Republicans or Conservatism--> this is very Trump-focussed issue with these debates.  Where he's taken the Republican party is to new policies truly alien to prior Republican administrations and leadership --> I mean come on -- since when have Republicans not been pro-FBI/Law Enforcement AND Anti-Russia/Communism AND pro-free trade?)

This is what gets me.
The willingness to turn away from bedrock  principles, undercut institutions and and disparage individuals who have devoted their careers to America, because some carnival barker, snake oil salesman declares he, and he alone is in the right.
For what purpose?
To cement a conservative court that will undercut individual freedom (isn’t that another bedrock principle? Or does the right to govern your own body only belong to men?)

The hypocrisy is astounding.

What do you think Republicans in Congress should do? Give up on a Republican agenda to spite Trump and GOP voters?

The man is President. Should Republicans refuse the opportunity to pass tax cuts, reduce regulations, defend the border, protect religious freedom, confirm conservative judges and Justices, etc.?

I'm pretty sure the Republicans in Congress would have no trouble getting President Pence to sign their desired legislation and appoint the judges that they want.

I’m sure they’d love to. But, their voters spoke. You can’t impeach somebody because they’re a jerk, though.
Incompetence?

Sadly, I don’t think that’s enough. It basically seems limited to crimes. Ultimately they may have the goods on him, but they don’t now. So, Republicans try to get their agenda passed, while hoping that he can be reigned in.

The deaths of ~5000 citizens due to negligence would seem 'criminal'.

The kidnapping of nearly 3000 innocent children would seem to be 'criminal'.

Lol. It’s hard to take you seriously with the hyperbole.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #341 on: July 23, 2018, 08:01:38 PM »

Offline mmmmm

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3379
  • Tommy Points: 521
Well, well, well....

https://thenationalsentinel.com/2018/07/22/james-clapper-comes-clean-says-obama-behind-trump-campaign-witch-hunt/

I explored and found what I could in terms of direct quotes from Clapper re: the interview referred to. Seems to me he said almost the opposite of what is claimed in the article you posted.  Sorry — I only have phone with me and don’t know how to link.  But Clapper actually said that Obama should be credited with getting the wheels turning on Russia meddling and that it is in no way a witch hunt. 

Someone better skilled than I am at this type of research maybe could link actual in-context quotes from Clapper or perhaps the video alluded to in Greenback’s post.  I will readily admit if I have it wrong, but my 20 minutes of searching for Clappers actual words left me with the opposite conclusion portrayed in the article Greenback posted.

Right-wing media is a bottomless well of bad faith, deceptively edited film at 11.

I think you typed “Right-wing” when you meant “Partisan political”.

Nope.

Then you’re no better than those you’re criticizing.
I think he is.  TP to FWF for being one of the most reasonable people in the current event forums.

Reasonable in an echo chamber / confirmation bias sort of way. I think FWF would admit that he’s closer to left than center.  The fact that he only sees bad faith in right wing media speaks quite loudly to his bias. The fact that you agree says something about your own.

I read a lot of Huff Post, Kos, Mother Jones, and plenty of others. To not see bad faith or intentional misleading is comical, similar to not seeing it on Breitbart.
not getting into a debate with you Roy -- your biases have been on display for quite a while and you've shown far more bias than FWF in your commentary. 

another TP for FWF for fighting the good fight.

Oh, I’m clearly a dedicated conservative and Republican.

I’m also unbiased enough to know that both sides of the partisan political media act in bad faith. If you think Sean Hannity is the devil but see no problem with Rachel Maddox, you’re part of the problem.
One of these two reports on a real life international scandal starring our president.
One of  these two does everything they can to discredit the institutions and investigators that are defending our nation against an ongoing attack.
Keep up the false equivalency, what’s the worst that could happen.
One

I mean, this attitude pretty much sums up politics today:  I don't care if I'm being lied to / misled, so long as I'm being told what I want to hear.

Rachel Maddow doesn't "report" on anything.  She skews facts to fit an agenda.  So does Hannity.  So does Breitbart.  So does Mother Jones.  So does Daily Caller.  So does Huffington Post.
that's where I think you're missing the point Roy.  People can call out Trump for the crap/lies he spews and the people/organizations that support him without being "for" the other side.  lies are lies Roy and there's nothing wrong with calling them out.  (there's no issue with traditional Republicans or Conservatism--> this is very Trump-focussed issue with these debates.  Where he's taken the Republican party is to new policies truly alien to prior Republican administrations and leadership --> I mean come on -- since when have Republicans not been pro-FBI/Law Enforcement AND Anti-Russia/Communism AND pro-free trade?)

This is what gets me.
The willingness to turn away from bedrock  principles, undercut institutions and and disparage individuals who have devoted their careers to America, because some carnival barker, snake oil salesman declares he, and he alone is in the right.
For what purpose?
To cement a conservative court that will undercut individual freedom (isn’t that another bedrock principle? Or does the right to govern your own body only belong to men?)

The hypocrisy is astounding.

What do you think Republicans in Congress should do? Give up on a Republican agenda to spite Trump and GOP voters?

The man is President. Should Republicans refuse the opportunity to pass tax cuts, reduce regulations, defend the border, protect religious freedom, confirm conservative judges and Justices, etc.?

I'm pretty sure the Republicans in Congress would have no trouble getting President Pence to sign their desired legislation and appoint the judges that they want.

I’m sure they’d love to. But, their voters spoke. You can’t impeach somebody because they’re a jerk, though.
Incompetence?

Sadly, I don’t think that’s enough. It basically seems limited to crimes. Ultimately they may have the goods on him, but they don’t now. So, Republicans try to get their agenda passed, while hoping that he can be reigned in.

The deaths of ~5000 citizens due to negligence would seem 'criminal'.

The kidnapping of nearly 3000 innocent children would seem to be 'criminal'.

Lol. It’s hard to take you seriously with the hyperbole.

What is hyperbolic about either?  Both things happened.  Both directly due to the decisions of this President.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.
#OneCitizenOneVote - True Election Reform:  Eliminate the anti-democratic Electoral College farce now.

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #342 on: July 23, 2018, 08:11:26 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 35591
  • Tommy Points: -27753
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Well, well, well....

https://thenationalsentinel.com/2018/07/22/james-clapper-comes-clean-says-obama-behind-trump-campaign-witch-hunt/

I explored and found what I could in terms of direct quotes from Clapper re: the interview referred to. Seems to me he said almost the opposite of what is claimed in the article you posted.  Sorry — I only have phone with me and don’t know how to link.  But Clapper actually said that Obama should be credited with getting the wheels turning on Russia meddling and that it is in no way a witch hunt. 

Someone better skilled than I am at this type of research maybe could link actual in-context quotes from Clapper or perhaps the video alluded to in Greenback’s post.  I will readily admit if I have it wrong, but my 20 minutes of searching for Clappers actual words left me with the opposite conclusion portrayed in the article Greenback posted.

Right-wing media is a bottomless well of bad faith, deceptively edited film at 11.

I think you typed “Right-wing” when you meant “Partisan political”.

Nope.

Then you’re no better than those you’re criticizing.
I think he is.  TP to FWF for being one of the most reasonable people in the current event forums.

Reasonable in an echo chamber / confirmation bias sort of way. I think FWF would admit that he’s closer to left than center.  The fact that he only sees bad faith in right wing media speaks quite loudly to his bias. The fact that you agree says something about your own.

I read a lot of Huff Post, Kos, Mother Jones, and plenty of others. To not see bad faith or intentional misleading is comical, similar to not seeing it on Breitbart.
not getting into a debate with you Roy -- your biases have been on display for quite a while and you've shown far more bias than FWF in your commentary. 

another TP for FWF for fighting the good fight.

Oh, I’m clearly a dedicated conservative and Republican.

I’m also unbiased enough to know that both sides of the partisan political media act in bad faith. If you think Sean Hannity is the devil but see no problem with Rachel Maddox, you’re part of the problem.
One of these two reports on a real life international scandal starring our president.
One of  these two does everything they can to discredit the institutions and investigators that are defending our nation against an ongoing attack.
Keep up the false equivalency, what’s the worst that could happen.
One

I mean, this attitude pretty much sums up politics today:  I don't care if I'm being lied to / misled, so long as I'm being told what I want to hear.

Rachel Maddow doesn't "report" on anything.  She skews facts to fit an agenda.  So does Hannity.  So does Breitbart.  So does Mother Jones.  So does Daily Caller.  So does Huffington Post.
that's where I think you're missing the point Roy.  People can call out Trump for the crap/lies he spews and the people/organizations that support him without being "for" the other side.  lies are lies Roy and there's nothing wrong with calling them out.  (there's no issue with traditional Republicans or Conservatism--> this is very Trump-focussed issue with these debates.  Where he's taken the Republican party is to new policies truly alien to prior Republican administrations and leadership --> I mean come on -- since when have Republicans not been pro-FBI/Law Enforcement AND Anti-Russia/Communism AND pro-free trade?)

This is what gets me.
The willingness to turn away from bedrock  principles, undercut institutions and and disparage individuals who have devoted their careers to America, because some carnival barker, snake oil salesman declares he, and he alone is in the right.
For what purpose?
To cement a conservative court that will undercut individual freedom (isn’t that another bedrock principle? Or does the right to govern your own body only belong to men?)

The hypocrisy is astounding.

What do you think Republicans in Congress should do? Give up on a Republican agenda to spite Trump and GOP voters?

The man is President. Should Republicans refuse the opportunity to pass tax cuts, reduce regulations, defend the border, protect religious freedom, confirm conservative judges and Justices, etc.?

I'm pretty sure the Republicans in Congress would have no trouble getting President Pence to sign their desired legislation and appoint the judges that they want.

I’m sure they’d love to. But, their voters spoke. You can’t impeach somebody because they’re a jerk, though.
Incompetence?

Sadly, I don’t think that’s enough. It basically seems limited to crimes. Ultimately they may have the goods on him, but they don’t now. So, Republicans try to get their agenda passed, while hoping that he can be reigned in.

The deaths of ~5000 citizens due to negligence would seem 'criminal'.

The kidnapping of nearly 3000 innocent children would seem to be 'criminal'.

Lol. It’s hard to take you seriously with the hyperbole.

What is hyperbolic about either?  Both things happened.  Both directly due to the decisions of this President.

Nobody kidnapped anybody.

Trump can’t be blamed for PR’s lack of infrastructure, nor the greatly exaggerated death toll of a natural disaster.  Several studies have indicated between 600 and 1000 deaths. Harvard comes along, says their calculations determined there were between 700 and 8000 deaths, so the media just averages those endpoints and now people like yourself are citing fictitious numbers (and blaming Trump for them).

Like I said, it’s hard to take the arguments seriously when they’re exaggerated and inaccurate on their face.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 08:23:38 PM by Roy H. »


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #343 on: July 23, 2018, 08:53:24 PM »

Offline slamtheking

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18963
  • Tommy Points: 8880
Well, well, well....

https://thenationalsentinel.com/2018/07/22/james-clapper-comes-clean-says-obama-behind-trump-campaign-witch-hunt/

I explored and found what I could in terms of direct quotes from Clapper re: the interview referred to. Seems to me he said almost the opposite of what is claimed in the article you posted.  Sorry — I only have phone with me and don’t know how to link.  But Clapper actually said that Obama should be credited with getting the wheels turning on Russia meddling and that it is in no way a witch hunt. 

Someone better skilled than I am at this type of research maybe could link actual in-context quotes from Clapper or perhaps the video alluded to in Greenback’s post.  I will readily admit if I have it wrong, but my 20 minutes of searching for Clappers actual words left me with the opposite conclusion portrayed in the article Greenback posted.

Right-wing media is a bottomless well of bad faith, deceptively edited film at 11.

I think you typed “Right-wing” when you meant “Partisan political”.

Nope.

Then you’re no better than those you’re criticizing.
I think he is.  TP to FWF for being one of the most reasonable people in the current event forums.

Reasonable in an echo chamber / confirmation bias sort of way. I think FWF would admit that he’s closer to left than center.  The fact that he only sees bad faith in right wing media speaks quite loudly to his bias. The fact that you agree says something about your own.

I read a lot of Huff Post, Kos, Mother Jones, and plenty of others. To not see bad faith or intentional misleading is comical, similar to not seeing it on Breitbart.
not getting into a debate with you Roy -- your biases have been on display for quite a while and you've shown far more bias than FWF in your commentary. 

another TP for FWF for fighting the good fight.

Oh, I’m clearly a dedicated conservative and Republican.

I’m also unbiased enough to know that both sides of the partisan political media act in bad faith. If you think Sean Hannity is the devil but see no problem with Rachel Maddox, you’re part of the problem.
One of these two reports on a real life international scandal starring our president.
One of  these two does everything they can to discredit the institutions and investigators that are defending our nation against an ongoing attack.
Keep up the false equivalency, what’s the worst that could happen.
One

I mean, this attitude pretty much sums up politics today:  I don't care if I'm being lied to / misled, so long as I'm being told what I want to hear.

Rachel Maddow doesn't "report" on anything.  She skews facts to fit an agenda.  So does Hannity.  So does Breitbart.  So does Mother Jones.  So does Daily Caller.  So does Huffington Post.
that's where I think you're missing the point Roy.  People can call out Trump for the crap/lies he spews and the people/organizations that support him without being "for" the other side.  lies are lies Roy and there's nothing wrong with calling them out.  (there's no issue with traditional Republicans or Conservatism--> this is very Trump-focussed issue with these debates.  Where he's taken the Republican party is to new policies truly alien to prior Republican administrations and leadership --> I mean come on -- since when have Republicans not been pro-FBI/Law Enforcement AND Anti-Russia/Communism AND pro-free trade?)

This is what gets me.
The willingness to turn away from bedrock  principles, undercut institutions and and disparage individuals who have devoted their careers to America, because some carnival barker, snake oil salesman declares he, and he alone is in the right.
For what purpose?
To cement a conservative court that will undercut individual freedom (isn’t that another bedrock principle? Or does the right to govern your own body only belong to men?)

The hypocrisy is astounding.

What do you think Republicans in Congress should do? Give up on a Republican agenda to spite Trump and GOP voters?

The man is President. Should Republicans refuse the opportunity to pass tax cuts, reduce regulations, defend the border, protect religious freedom, confirm conservative judges and Justices, etc.?

I'm pretty sure the Republicans in Congress would have no trouble getting President Pence to sign their desired legislation and appoint the judges that they want.

I’m sure they’d love to. But, their voters spoke. You can’t impeach somebody because they’re a jerk, though.
but, you're a Trump voter.  so does that mean you're getting exactly what you want or are you actually contacting your representation in Congress to do something about Trump or at least let them know you will support them if they stand up to Trump? 

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #344 on: July 23, 2018, 10:46:38 PM »

Offline arctic 3.0

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2248
  • Tommy Points: 363
Well, well, well....

https://thenationalsentinel.com/2018/07/22/james-clapper-comes-clean-says-obama-behind-trump-campaign-witch-hunt/

I explored and found what I could in terms of direct quotes from Clapper re: the interview referred to. Seems to me he said almost the opposite of what is claimed in the article you posted.  Sorry — I only have phone with me and don’t know how to link.  But Clapper actually said that Obama should be credited with getting the wheels turning on Russia meddling and that it is in no way a witch hunt. 

Someone better skilled than I am at this type of research maybe could link actual in-context quotes from Clapper or perhaps the video alluded to in Greenback’s post.  I will readily admit if I have it wrong, but my 20 minutes of searching for Clappers actual words left me with the opposite conclusion portrayed in the article Greenback posted.

Right-wing media is a bottomless well of bad faith, deceptively edited film at 11.

I think you typed “Right-wing” when you meant “Partisan political”.

Nope.

Then you’re no better than those you’re criticizing.
I think he is.  TP to FWF for being one of the most reasonable people in the current event forums.

Reasonable in an echo chamber / confirmation bias sort of way. I think FWF would admit that he’s closer to left than center.  The fact that he only sees bad faith in right wing media speaks quite loudly to his bias. The fact that you agree says something about your own.

I read a lot of Huff Post, Kos, Mother Jones, and plenty of others. To not see bad faith or intentional misleading is comical, similar to not seeing it on Breitbart.
not getting into a debate with you Roy -- your biases have been on display for quite a while and you've shown far more bias than FWF in your commentary. 

another TP for FWF for fighting the good fight.

Oh, I’m clearly a dedicated conservative and Republican.

I’m also unbiased enough to know that both sides of the partisan political media act in bad faith. If you think Sean Hannity is the devil but see no problem with Rachel Maddox, you’re part of the problem.
One of these two reports on a real life international scandal starring our president.
One of  these two does everything they can to discredit the institutions and investigators that are defending our nation against an ongoing attack.
Keep up the false equivalency, what’s the worst that could happen.
One

I mean, this attitude pretty much sums up politics today:  I don't care if I'm being lied to / misled, so long as I'm being told what I want to hear.

Rachel Maddow doesn't "report" on anything.  She skews facts to fit an agenda.  So does Hannity.  So does Breitbart.  So does Mother Jones.  So does Daily Caller.  So does Huffington Post.
that's where I think you're missing the point Roy.  People can call out Trump for the crap/lies he spews and the people/organizations that support him without being "for" the other side.  lies are lies Roy and there's nothing wrong with calling them out.  (there's no issue with traditional Republicans or Conservatism--> this is very Trump-focussed issue with these debates.  Where he's taken the Republican party is to new policies truly alien to prior Republican administrations and leadership --> I mean come on -- since when have Republicans not been pro-FBI/Law Enforcement AND Anti-Russia/Communism AND pro-free trade?)

This is what gets me.
The willingness to turn away from bedrock  principles, undercut institutions and and disparage individuals who have devoted their careers to America, because some carnival barker, snake oil salesman declares he, and he alone is in the right.
For what purpose?
To cement a conservative court that will undercut individual freedom (isn’t that another bedrock principle? Or does the right to govern your own body only belong to men?)

The hypocrisy is astounding.

What do you think Republicans in Congress should do? Give up on a Republican agenda to spite Trump and GOP voters?

The man is President. Should Republicans refuse the opportunity to pass tax cuts, reduce regulations, defend the border, protect religious freedom, confirm conservative judges and Justices, etc.?

And abortion discussion is not permitted here, but describing unborn children as simply parts of a woman’s body isn’t going to change a lot of Trump voters’ minds, either.

My guess is that the majority of voters would select somebody who professes to agree with them — even if a buffoonish, self-enriching liar — over a more reasonable person with a different ideology.

And lol at “bedrock principles”. Seriously, do most Democrats even believe in them? Because I keep hearing about an “evolving”, “living, breathing” Constitution. I see liberal protesters shouting down those exercising their First Amendment rights, calls for repeal of the Second Amendment, liberal judges erasing the meaning of the Ninth and Tenth Amendment, the bashing of originalist Justices like Scalia, the redefining of social institutions like marriage, the subjugation of religious freedom, the vilification of the police and military, sanctuary cities that defy the rule of law, etc.   

What “bedrock principles” do you believe in that existed prior to 1973 or so?  The FBI? Was that before or after it was being slammed for costing Hillary the election? Before or after McCabe was recommended to becriminally prosecuted? Before or after Comey leaked confidential memos to the press? Before or after Peter Strzok played a key part in the investigations of Hillary and Trump despite being deeply personally biased?
1: A Republican Congress investigated Benghazi for 3.5 years and came up with nada but they say it’s time to end an investigation that has yielded 20+ indictments in half that time.
A Republican Congress investigates a bad real estate deal that turned into a blue dress and impeached a president over lying about an extra marital affair.
A Republican congress failed to see any problem with selling weapons to Iran just years after the hostage crisis.
What would I have them do? They should, for once, put country before party
2: the whole speil about originalism vs living constitution and activist judges rings hollow when you consider which ideological extreme is actively working to push back the rights and freedoms won by Americans over the 20th century.
3: Comey didn’t leak classified documents. Claiming he did is perpetuating a falsehood.
Strzok is a decorated lifelong servant of the constitution. He and many others are being dragged through the mud, not because they did wrong, but because they threaten this charlatan and the Republican party’s grasp on power.
You seem like a smart guy and it seems you have finally realized how foolish electing this man was. But playing the rational card in defense of this bull is galling.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 11:43:43 PM by arctic 3.0 »