Author Topic: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit  (Read 8704 times)

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Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #240 on: July 18, 2018, 03:28:42 PM »

Offline blink

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I can't think of why Putin wouldn't have something on Trump.

haha tp!

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #241 on: July 18, 2018, 08:02:41 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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[...]
For Pelosi, Schumer and Brennan to be discussing Treason is insane. They are lucky they do not live in Russia.  If they talked that way about Putin they would already be dead.  Heck, if they talked that way against George Washington or Thomas Jefferson, they probably would have been hung or put before a firing squad.
[...]

I assume that ...rant... was trolling, but besides that:

Do you honestly think that Thomas Jefferson, aka the guy that rose to the Presidency with a platform opposing the Alien and Sedition Acts, would have had people put to death for speaking against him?

The answer is no.  I can't imagine living in a country where political opposition not only was illegal, but punishable by death.  It's one of the many reasons why we should oppose dictatorships like Putin's.

::) Capital punishment has been outlawed in Russia for some time, now, so...

http://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news/article/russia-death-penalty-ruled-unconstitutional/

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLJ330478

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/07/17/chris-wallace-grills-putin-why-do-so-many-your-political-opponents-end-dead

Quote
::) Capital punishment has been outlawed in Russia for some time, now, so...

Yep, and I guess assassin and hitman are not capital punishment there...

It's not the same thing, guys.

They’re not, you’re right.  Capital punishment is sanctioned killing by the state.  What happens in Russia is extrajudicial killing by the state, which is even more chilling.

None of that is lost on me, I assure you, although I think that it's important to point out that these murders are not purely symptomatic of Putin and have, in fact, actually decreased during his years in office.

Well... as have the numbers of his living opponents ... so ...

Yeah, except that you're completely missing the point, so...

? I'm pretty sure mmmmm is nailing the point.

Any decrease in state sponsored attacks can most probably be explained away by the chilling effect on dissent that the original state sponsored attacks created.

What do you think the point is?

If that's the case, then as to why, after 14-18 years in office depending on as to how you view Putin's time as "Prime Minister", lol ::) ;D, do they keep happening? Do you honestly believe that the murder of political opponents in Russia, as to whether or not they happen to be members of the Duma or journalists, solely stems from Vladimir Putin?

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #242 on: July 18, 2018, 08:04:28 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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[...]
For Pelosi, Schumer and Brennan to be discussing Treason is insane. They are lucky they do not live in Russia.  If they talked that way about Putin they would already be dead.  Heck, if they talked that way against George Washington or Thomas Jefferson, they probably would have been hung or put before a firing squad.
[...]

I assume that ...rant... was trolling, but besides that:

Do you honestly think that Thomas Jefferson, aka the guy that rose to the Presidency with a platform opposing the Alien and Sedition Acts, would have had people put to death for speaking against him?

The answer is no.  I can't imagine living in a country where political opposition not only was illegal, but punishable by death.  It's one of the many reasons why we should oppose dictatorships like Putin's.

::) Capital punishment has been outlawed in Russia for some time, now, so...

http://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news/article/russia-death-penalty-ruled-unconstitutional/

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLJ330478

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/07/17/chris-wallace-grills-putin-why-do-so-many-your-political-opponents-end-dead

Quote
::) Capital punishment has been outlawed in Russia for some time, now, so...

Yep, and I guess assassin and hitman are not capital punishment there...

It's not the same thing, guys.

They’re not, you’re right.  Capital punishment is sanctioned killing by the state.  What happens in Russia is extrajudicial killing by the state, which is even more chilling.

None of that is lost on me, I assure you, although I think that it's important to point out that these murders are not purely symptomatic of Putin and have, in fact, actually decreased during his years in office.

Well... as have the numbers of his living opponents ... so ...

Yeah, except that you're completely missing the point, so...

? I'm pretty sure mmmmm is nailing the point.

Any decrease in state sponsored attacks can most probably be explained away by the chilling effect on dissent that the original state sponsored attacks created.

What do you think the point is?

That he's turned over a new leaf?  ::)

It's like he's cut back from a pack a day smoking habit to one or two smokes a day?  That sort of thing?

Sigh.

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #243 on: July 18, 2018, 08:13:40 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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[...]
For Pelosi, Schumer and Brennan to be discussing Treason is insane. They are lucky they do not live in Russia.  If they talked that way about Putin they would already be dead.  Heck, if they talked that way against George Washington or Thomas Jefferson, they probably would have been hung or put before a firing squad.
[...]

I assume that ...rant... was trolling, but besides that:

Do you honestly think that Thomas Jefferson, aka the guy that rose to the Presidency with a platform opposing the Alien and Sedition Acts, would have had people put to death for speaking against him?

The answer is no.  I can't imagine living in a country where political opposition not only was illegal, but punishable by death.  It's one of the many reasons why we should oppose dictatorships like Putin's.

::) Capital punishment has been outlawed in Russia for some time, now, so...

http://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news/article/russia-death-penalty-ruled-unconstitutional/

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLJ330478

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/07/17/chris-wallace-grills-putin-why-do-so-many-your-political-opponents-end-dead

Quote
::) Capital punishment has been outlawed in Russia for some time, now, so...

Yep, and I guess assassin and hitman are not capital punishment there...

It's not the same thing, guys.

They’re not, you’re right.  Capital punishment is sanctioned killing by the state.  What happens in Russia is extrajudicial killing by the state, which is even more chilling.

None of that is lost on me, I assure you, although I think that it's important to point out that these murders are not purely symptomatic of Putin and have, in fact, actually decreased during his years in office.

Well... as have the numbers of his living opponents ... so ...

Yeah, except that you're completely missing the point, so...

? I'm pretty sure mmmmm is nailing the point.

Any decrease in state sponsored attacks can most probably be explained away by the chilling effect on dissent that the original state sponsored attacks created.

What do you think the point is?

If that's the case, then as to why, after 14-18 years in office depending on as to how you view Putin's time as "Prime Minister", lol ::) ;D, do they keep happening? Do you honestly believe that the murder of political opponents in Russia, as to whether or not they happen to be members of the Duma or journalists, solely stems from Vladimir Putin?
Dude, you're defending a mass murder with the defense that he doesn't kill as much as he used to. You realize that, right?

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #244 on: July 18, 2018, 08:13:50 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Friendly reminder that in addition to political opponents Putin isn't above murdering hundreds of everyday Russian citizens in actual false flag terrorist attacks to push a war and win re-election.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/08/vladimir-putin-1999-russian-apartment-house-bombings-was-putin-responsible/

Strange Times Indeed when a rational poster like FwF feels compelled to put up a "reminder: Putin=bad guy" post.

It feels much stranger to be talking about false flag terrorist attacks. I felt gross just typing that phrase in earnest but it's as strong a set of evidence as I've ever seen.

As much as I love the both of you guys and like David Satter, the "set of evidence" that he presents is, at best, incomplete, and at the worst makes for at least borderline revisionist history, imo.

To be clear, I'm not saying that the bombings aren't suspicious #DoubleNegative ;D, to put it mildly, and am certainly not ruling anything out, but the story is simply far more complex than it is often presented in the United States, in particular :-\.

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #245 on: July 18, 2018, 08:25:55 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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[...]
For Pelosi, Schumer and Brennan to be discussing Treason is insane. They are lucky they do not live in Russia.  If they talked that way about Putin they would already be dead.  Heck, if they talked that way against George Washington or Thomas Jefferson, they probably would have been hung or put before a firing squad.
[...]

I assume that ...rant... was trolling, but besides that:

Do you honestly think that Thomas Jefferson, aka the guy that rose to the Presidency with a platform opposing the Alien and Sedition Acts, would have had people put to death for speaking against him?

The answer is no.  I can't imagine living in a country where political opposition not only was illegal, but punishable by death.  It's one of the many reasons why we should oppose dictatorships like Putin's.

::) Capital punishment has been outlawed in Russia for some time, now, so...

http://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news/article/russia-death-penalty-ruled-unconstitutional/

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLJ330478

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/07/17/chris-wallace-grills-putin-why-do-so-many-your-political-opponents-end-dead

Quote
::) Capital punishment has been outlawed in Russia for some time, now, so...

Yep, and I guess assassin and hitman are not capital punishment there...

It's not the same thing, guys.

They’re not, you’re right.  Capital punishment is sanctioned killing by the state.  What happens in Russia is extrajudicial killing by the state, which is even more chilling.

None of that is lost on me, I assure you, although I think that it's important to point out that these murders are not purely symptomatic of Putin and have, in fact, actually decreased during his years in office.

Well... as have the numbers of his living opponents ... so ...

Yeah, except that you're completely missing the point, so...

? I'm pretty sure mmmmm is nailing the point.

Any decrease in state sponsored attacks can most probably be explained away by the chilling effect on dissent that the original state sponsored attacks created.

What do you think the point is?

If that's the case, then as to why, after 14-18 years in office depending on as to how you view Putin's time as "Prime Minister", lol ::) ;D, do they keep happening? Do you honestly believe that the murder of political opponents in Russia, as to whether or not they happen to be members of the Duma or journalists, solely stems from Vladimir Putin?
Dude, you're defending a mass murder with the defense that he doesn't kill as much as he used to. You realize that, right?

Umm, no, I'm not, and since when is Putin a mass murderer? :o Are you seriously comparing him to Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, The Young Turks, Saddam Hussein, Assad, and the North Korean Regime, among others? :o Jesus, I'm not even a Putin fan, as I abhor his anti-gay laws, among other things, but that's just beyond ridiculous, imo. I'm sorry.

Anyway, as to what I'm saying is that the situation pertaining to political murders in Russia is far more complex than it is often presented, here.

Edit: allow me to apologize, in advance, for being late in getting back to you.

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #246 on: July 18, 2018, 08:30:09 PM »

Offline byennie

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[...]
For Pelosi, Schumer and Brennan to be discussing Treason is insane. They are lucky they do not live in Russia.  If they talked that way about Putin they would already be dead.  Heck, if they talked that way against George Washington or Thomas Jefferson, they probably would have been hung or put before a firing squad.
[...]

I assume that ...rant... was trolling, but besides that:

Do you honestly think that Thomas Jefferson, aka the guy that rose to the Presidency with a platform opposing the Alien and Sedition Acts, would have had people put to death for speaking against him?

The answer is no.  I can't imagine living in a country where political opposition not only was illegal, but punishable by death.  It's one of the many reasons why we should oppose dictatorships like Putin's.

::) Capital punishment has been outlawed in Russia for some time, now, so...

http://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news/article/russia-death-penalty-ruled-unconstitutional/

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLJ330478

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/07/17/chris-wallace-grills-putin-why-do-so-many-your-political-opponents-end-dead

Quote
::) Capital punishment has been outlawed in Russia for some time, now, so...

Yep, and I guess assassin and hitman are not capital punishment there...

It's not the same thing, guys.

They’re not, you’re right.  Capital punishment is sanctioned killing by the state.  What happens in Russia is extrajudicial killing by the state, which is even more chilling.

None of that is lost on me, I assure you, although I think that it's important to point out that these murders are not purely symptomatic of Putin and have, in fact, actually decreased during his years in office.

Well... as have the numbers of his living opponents ... so ...

Yeah, except that you're completely missing the point, so...

? I'm pretty sure mmmmm is nailing the point.

Any decrease in state sponsored attacks can most probably be explained away by the chilling effect on dissent that the original state sponsored attacks created.

What do you think the point is?

If that's the case, then as to why, after 14-18 years in office depending on as to how you view Putin's time as "Prime Minister", lol ::) ;D, do they keep happening? Do you honestly believe that the murder of political opponents in Russia, as to whether or not they happen to be members of the Duma or journalists, solely stems from Vladimir Putin?
I'd say he is like the MOST responsible out of anyone. I'm sure others are complicit- clearly there are wealthy Russians and party members who benefit from the same result. Putin is 16 years KGB, Director of the FSB who has left a trail of dead politicians, journalists and dissenters over the past ~20 years while simultaneously winning more and more questionable elections. His enemies have a nasty habit of being poisoned with exotic substances that an FSB/KGB agent would have access to. It's completely blatant, but the rest of the world is generally handcuffed in the same way we can't just waltz into North Korea and demand human rights... except Russia actually has enough nukes to start WWIII at any time.

Any sort of "but known murders are down" argument completely and utterly misses the point. It's a tenuous correlation and I'd say that you need to finish making the point if you're going to make it. Are you saying Putin has been actually secretly fighting corruption and violence the past 15 years, and promoting democracy? What is the claim?
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Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #247 on: July 18, 2018, 08:33:32 PM »

Offline byennie

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[...]
For Pelosi, Schumer and Brennan to be discussing Treason is insane. They are lucky they do not live in Russia.  If they talked that way about Putin they would already be dead.  Heck, if they talked that way against George Washington or Thomas Jefferson, they probably would have been hung or put before a firing squad.
[...]

I assume that ...rant... was trolling, but besides that:

Do you honestly think that Thomas Jefferson, aka the guy that rose to the Presidency with a platform opposing the Alien and Sedition Acts, would have had people put to death for speaking against him?

The answer is no.  I can't imagine living in a country where political opposition not only was illegal, but punishable by death.  It's one of the many reasons why we should oppose dictatorships like Putin's.

::) Capital punishment has been outlawed in Russia for some time, now, so...

http://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news/article/russia-death-penalty-ruled-unconstitutional/

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLJ330478

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/07/17/chris-wallace-grills-putin-why-do-so-many-your-political-opponents-end-dead

Quote
::) Capital punishment has been outlawed in Russia for some time, now, so...

Yep, and I guess assassin and hitman are not capital punishment there...

It's not the same thing, guys.

They’re not, you’re right.  Capital punishment is sanctioned killing by the state.  What happens in Russia is extrajudicial killing by the state, which is even more chilling.

None of that is lost on me, I assure you, although I think that it's important to point out that these murders are not purely symptomatic of Putin and have, in fact, actually decreased during his years in office.

Well... as have the numbers of his living opponents ... so ...

Yeah, except that you're completely missing the point, so...

? I'm pretty sure mmmmm is nailing the point.

Any decrease in state sponsored attacks can most probably be explained away by the chilling effect on dissent that the original state sponsored attacks created.

What do you think the point is?

If that's the case, then as to why, after 14-18 years in office depending on as to how you view Putin's time as "Prime Minister", lol ::) ;D, do they keep happening? Do you honestly believe that the murder of political opponents in Russia, as to whether or not they happen to be members of the Duma or journalists, solely stems from Vladimir Putin?
Dude, you're defending a mass murder with the defense that he doesn't kill as much as he used to. You realize that, right?

Umm, no, I'm not, and since when is Putin a mass murderer? :o Are you seriously comparing him to Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, The Young Turks, Saddam Hussein, Assad, and the North Korean Regime, among others? :o Jesus, I'm not even a Putin fan, as I abhor his anti-gay laws, among other things, but that's just beyond ridiculous, imo. I'm sorry.

Anyway, as to what I'm saying is that the situation pertaining to political murders in Russia is far more complex than it is often presented, here.

Edit: allow me to apologize, in advance, for being late in getting back to you.

There at least 10 high profile cases of assassination tied to Putin. That's mass murder by itself. Comparing to genocides from history doesn't change anything, even without touching any of the terrorist or military skirmishes he may have played a role in.
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Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #248 on: July 18, 2018, 08:36:31 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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[...]
For Pelosi, Schumer and Brennan to be discussing Treason is insane. They are lucky they do not live in Russia.  If they talked that way about Putin they would already be dead.  Heck, if they talked that way against George Washington or Thomas Jefferson, they probably would have been hung or put before a firing squad.
[...]

I assume that ...rant... was trolling, but besides that:

Do you honestly think that Thomas Jefferson, aka the guy that rose to the Presidency with a platform opposing the Alien and Sedition Acts, would have had people put to death for speaking against him?

The answer is no.  I can't imagine living in a country where political opposition not only was illegal, but punishable by death.  It's one of the many reasons why we should oppose dictatorships like Putin's.

::) Capital punishment has been outlawed in Russia for some time, now, so...

http://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news/article/russia-death-penalty-ruled-unconstitutional/

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLJ330478

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/07/17/chris-wallace-grills-putin-why-do-so-many-your-political-opponents-end-dead

Quote
::) Capital punishment has been outlawed in Russia for some time, now, so...

Yep, and I guess assassin and hitman are not capital punishment there...

It's not the same thing, guys.

They’re not, you’re right.  Capital punishment is sanctioned killing by the state.  What happens in Russia is extrajudicial killing by the state, which is even more chilling.

None of that is lost on me, I assure you, although I think that it's important to point out that these murders are not purely symptomatic of Putin and have, in fact, actually decreased during his years in office.

Well... as have the numbers of his living opponents ... so ...

Yeah, except that you're completely missing the point, so...

? I'm pretty sure mmmmm is nailing the point.

Any decrease in state sponsored attacks can most probably be explained away by the chilling effect on dissent that the original state sponsored attacks created.

What do you think the point is?

If that's the case, then as to why, after 14-18 years in office depending on as to how you view Putin's time as "Prime Minister", lol ::) ;D, do they keep happening? Do you honestly believe that the murder of political opponents in Russia, as to whether or not they happen to be members of the Duma or journalists, solely stems from Vladimir Putin?
Dude, you're defending a mass murder with the defense that he doesn't kill as much as he used to. You realize that, right?

Umm, no, I'm not, and since when is Putin a mass murderer? :o Are you seriously comparing him to Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, The Young Turks, Saddam Hussein, Assad, and the North Korean Regime, among others? :o Jesus, I'm not even a Putin fan, as I abhor his anti-gay laws, among other things, but that's just beyond ridiculous, imo. I'm sorry.

Anyway, as to what I'm saying is that the situation pertaining to political murders in Russia is far more complex than it is often presented, here.

Edit: allow me to apologize, in advance, for being late in getting back to you.
Putin has killed political enemies. More than one. More than 10. That makes him a mass murderer. You stated the amount of political related murders have decreased. He is the reason the political murders are happening.

Does Putin have to be as bad as Hitler, Stalin, Mao to be a mass murderer? Really poor defense there. A mass murderer is a mass murderer whether he has killed 5, 10, 100 or a million people. Between Putins time as a KGB agent and his assention to power and killing who he needs to to stay in power, yes. He is a mass murderer. Icould care less how this can be spun in regards to Russian history, but in America, killing all those people, even if for political gain, is still murder.

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #249 on: July 18, 2018, 09:00:53 PM »

Online Roy H.

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[...]
For Pelosi, Schumer and Brennan to be discussing Treason is insane. They are lucky they do not live in Russia.  If they talked that way about Putin they would already be dead.  Heck, if they talked that way against George Washington or Thomas Jefferson, they probably would have been hung or put before a firing squad.
[...]

I assume that ...rant... was trolling, but besides that:

Do you honestly think that Thomas Jefferson, aka the guy that rose to the Presidency with a platform opposing the Alien and Sedition Acts, would have had people put to death for speaking against him?

The answer is no.  I can't imagine living in a country where political opposition not only was illegal, but punishable by death.  It's one of the many reasons why we should oppose dictatorships like Putin's.

::) Capital punishment has been outlawed in Russia for some time, now, so...

http://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news/article/russia-death-penalty-ruled-unconstitutional/

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLJ330478

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/07/17/chris-wallace-grills-putin-why-do-so-many-your-political-opponents-end-dead

Quote
::) Capital punishment has been outlawed in Russia for some time, now, so...

Yep, and I guess assassin and hitman are not capital punishment there...

It's not the same thing, guys.

They’re not, you’re right.  Capital punishment is sanctioned killing by the state.  What happens in Russia is extrajudicial killing by the state, which is even more chilling.

None of that is lost on me, I assure you, although I think that it's important to point out that these murders are not purely symptomatic of Putin and have, in fact, actually decreased during his years in office.

Well... as have the numbers of his living opponents ... so ...

Yeah, except that you're completely missing the point, so...

? I'm pretty sure mmmmm is nailing the point.

Any decrease in state sponsored attacks can most probably be explained away by the chilling effect on dissent that the original state sponsored attacks created.

What do you think the point is?

If that's the case, then as to why, after 14-18 years in office depending on as to how you view Putin's time as "Prime Minister", lol ::) ;D, do they keep happening? Do you honestly believe that the murder of political opponents in Russia, as to whether or not they happen to be members of the Duma or journalists, solely stems from Vladimir Putin?
Dude, you're defending a mass murder with the defense that he doesn't kill as much as he used to. You realize that, right?

Umm, no, I'm not, and since when is Putin a mass murderer? :o Are you seriously comparing him to Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, The Young Turks, Saddam Hussein, Assad, and the North Korean Regime, among others? :o Jesus, I'm not even a Putin fan, as I abhor his anti-gay laws, among other things, but that's just beyond ridiculous, imo. I'm sorry.

Anyway, as to what I'm saying is that the situation pertaining to political murders in Russia is far more complex than it is often presented, here.

Edit: allow me to apologize, in advance, for being late in getting back to you.
Putin has killed political enemies. More than one. More than 10. That makes him a mass murderer. You stated the amount of political related murders have decreased. He is the reason the political murders are happening.

Does Putin have to be as bad as Hitler, Stalin, Mao to be a mass murderer? Really poor defense there. A mass murderer is a mass murderer whether he has killed 5, 10, 100 or a million people. Between Putins time as a KGB agent and his assention to power and killing who he needs to to stay in power, yes. He is a mass murderer. Icould care less how this can be spun in regards to Russian history, but in America, killing all those people, even if for political gain, is still murder.

Yeah, the “he’s only killed dozens rather than millions” defense isn’t that compelling.


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Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #250 on: July 18, 2018, 09:52:37 PM »

Offline blink

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man this thread has gotten pretty derailed from the original topic.  Can we all get back to the topic?  It is an important one, and I for one don't want it to get locked because it got off track.

I mean we pretty much all accept that Putin is a thug / mass murderer / general bad guy.  If that needs to be debated (it doesn't) then maybe a new thread on Putin.

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #251 on: July 18, 2018, 09:53:41 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Anyway, as to what I'm saying is that the situation pertaining to political murders in Russia is far more complex than it is often presented, here.


There are very fine people on both sides of the murder weapons? 

In all seriousness, you keep saying this stuff is more complex than it's being presented but never following up on how. Can you please specify some of the ways in which it's more complex? Otherwise it just sounds like you're criticizing labeling a murderer as a murderer without any real underlying basis, which will and should bring a lot of pushback.


Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #253 on: July 18, 2018, 09:59:45 PM »

Online Roy H.

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man this thread has gotten pretty derailed from the original topic.  Can we all get back to the topic?  It is an important one, and I for one don't want it to get locked because it got off track.

I mean we pretty much all accept that Putin is a thug / mass murderer / general bad guy.  If that needs to be debated (it doesn't) then maybe a new thread on Putin.

Well, part of the reason that we should all be worried about Russia is that they are, in fact, extremely dangerous.  There are multiple ways to underestimate Russia.  One is to trust them, like our idiot President does.  Another is to not believe that they're dangerous, or to believe that their government isn't all that much different than ours.  While having peace with Russia is a desirable goal, it needs to be a peace that recognizes (at least internally) that Putin is a KGB psychopath who generally doesn't operate in good faith.


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Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #254 on: July 18, 2018, 10:04:56 PM »

Offline blink

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man this thread has gotten pretty derailed from the original topic.  Can we all get back to the topic?  It is an important one, and I for one don't want it to get locked because it got off track.

I mean we pretty much all accept that Putin is a thug / mass murderer / general bad guy.  If that needs to be debated (it doesn't) then maybe a new thread on Putin.

Well, part of the reason that we should all be worried about Russia is that they are, in fact, extremely dangerous.  There are multiple ways to underestimate Russia.  One is to trust them, like our idiot President does.  Another is to not believe that they're dangerous, or to believe that their government isn't all that much different than ours.  While having peace with Russia is a desirable goal, it needs to be a peace that recognizes (at least internally) that Putin is a KGB psychopath who generally doesn't operate in good faith.

Nothing I wrote disagrees with anything you said.