Author Topic: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit  (Read 9916 times)

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Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #315 on: July 22, 2018, 10:34:07 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Well, well, well....

https://thenationalsentinel.com/2018/07/22/james-clapper-comes-clean-says-obama-behind-trump-campaign-witch-hunt/

I explored and found what I could in terms of direct quotes from Clapper re: the interview referred to. Seems to me he said almost the opposite of what is claimed in the article you posted.  Sorry — I only have phone with me and don’t know how to link.  But Clapper actually said that Obama should be credited with getting the wheels turning on Russia meddling and that it is in no way a witch hunt. 

Someone better skilled than I am at this type of research maybe could link actual in-context quotes from Clapper or perhaps the video alluded to in Greenback’s post.  I will readily admit if I have it wrong, but my 20 minutes of searching for Clappers actual words left me with the opposite conclusion portrayed in the article Greenback posted.

Right-wing media is a bottomless well of bad faith, deceptively edited film at 11.

I think you typed “Right-wing” when you meant “Partisan political”.

Nope.

Then you’re no better than those you’re criticizing.
I think he is.  TP to FWF for being one of the most reasonable people in the current event forums.

Reasonable in an echo chamber / confirmation bias sort of way. I think FWF would admit that he’s closer to left than center.  The fact that he only sees bad faith in right wing media speaks quite loudly to his bias. The fact that you agree says something about your own.

I read a lot of Huff Post, Kos, Mother Jones, and plenty of others. To not see bad faith or intentional misleading is comical, similar to not seeing it on Breitbart.
not getting into a debate with you Roy -- your biases have been on display for quite a while and you've shown far more bias than FWF in your commentary. 

another TP for FWF for fighting the good fight.

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #316 on: July 22, 2018, 10:48:53 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Well, well, well....

https://thenationalsentinel.com/2018/07/22/james-clapper-comes-clean-says-obama-behind-trump-campaign-witch-hunt/

I explored and found what I could in terms of direct quotes from Clapper re: the interview referred to. Seems to me he said almost the opposite of what is claimed in the article you posted.  Sorry — I only have phone with me and don’t know how to link.  But Clapper actually said that Obama should be credited with getting the wheels turning on Russia meddling and that it is in no way a witch hunt. 

Someone better skilled than I am at this type of research maybe could link actual in-context quotes from Clapper or perhaps the video alluded to in Greenback’s post.  I will readily admit if I have it wrong, but my 20 minutes of searching for Clappers actual words left me with the opposite conclusion portrayed in the article Greenback posted.

Right-wing media is a bottomless well of bad faith, deceptively edited film at 11.

I think you typed “Right-wing” when you meant “Partisan political”.

Nope.

Then you’re no better than those you’re criticizing.
I think he is.  TP to FWF for being one of the most reasonable people in the current event forums.

Reasonable in an echo chamber / confirmation bias sort of way. I think FWF would admit that he’s closer to left than center.  The fact that he only sees bad faith in right wing media speaks quite loudly to his bias. The fact that you agree says something about your own.

I read a lot of Huff Post, Kos, Mother Jones, and plenty of others. To not see bad faith or intentional misleading is comical, similar to not seeing it on Breitbart.
not getting into a debate with you Roy -- your biases have been on display for quite a while and you've shown far more bias than FWF in your commentary. 

another TP for FWF for fighting the good fight.

Oh, I’m clearly a dedicated conservative and Republican.

I’m also unbiased enough to know that both sides of the partisan political media act in bad faith. If you think Sean Hannity is the devil but see no problem with Rachel Maddox, you’re part of the problem.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #317 on: July 22, 2018, 10:56:13 PM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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Well, well, well....

https://thenationalsentinel.com/2018/07/22/james-clapper-comes-clean-says-obama-behind-trump-campaign-witch-hunt/

I explored and found what I could in terms of direct quotes from Clapper re: the interview referred to. Seems to me he said almost the opposite of what is claimed in the article you posted.  Sorry — I only have phone with me and don’t know how to link.  But Clapper actually said that Obama should be credited with getting the wheels turning on Russia meddling and that it is in no way a witch hunt. 

Someone better skilled than I am at this type of research maybe could link actual in-context quotes from Clapper or perhaps the video alluded to in Greenback’s post.  I will readily admit if I have it wrong, but my 20 minutes of searching for Clappers actual words left me with the opposite conclusion portrayed in the article Greenback posted.

Right-wing media is a bottomless well of bad faith, deceptively edited film at 11.

I think you typed “Right-wing” when you meant “Partisan political”.

Nope.

Then you’re no better than those you’re criticizing.
I think he is.  TP to FWF for being one of the most reasonable people in the current event forums.

Reasonable in an echo chamber / confirmation bias sort of way. I think FWF would admit that he’s closer to left than center.  The fact that he only sees bad faith in right wing media speaks quite loudly to his bias. The fact that you agree says something about your own.

I read a lot of Huff Post, Kos, Mother Jones, and plenty of others. To not see bad faith or intentional misleading is comical, similar to not seeing it on Breitbart.
not getting into a debate with you Roy -- your biases have been on display for quite a while and you've shown far more bias than FWF in your commentary. 

another TP for FWF for fighting the good fight.

Oh, I’m clearly a dedicated conservative and Republican.

I’m also unbiased enough to know that both sides of the partisan political media act in bad faith. If you think Sean Hannity is the devil but see no problem with Rachel Maddox, you’re part of the problem.
One of these two reports on a real life international scandal starring our president.
One of  these two does everything they can to discredit the institutions and investigators that are defending our nation against an ongoing attack.
Keep up the false equivalency, what’s the worst that could happen.
One

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #318 on: July 22, 2018, 11:02:23 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Well, well, well....

https://thenationalsentinel.com/2018/07/22/james-clapper-comes-clean-says-obama-behind-trump-campaign-witch-hunt/

I explored and found what I could in terms of direct quotes from Clapper re: the interview referred to. Seems to me he said almost the opposite of what is claimed in the article you posted.  Sorry — I only have phone with me and don’t know how to link.  But Clapper actually said that Obama should be credited with getting the wheels turning on Russia meddling and that it is in no way a witch hunt. 

Someone better skilled than I am at this type of research maybe could link actual in-context quotes from Clapper or perhaps the video alluded to in Greenback’s post.  I will readily admit if I have it wrong, but my 20 minutes of searching for Clappers actual words left me with the opposite conclusion portrayed in the article Greenback posted.

Right-wing media is a bottomless well of bad faith, deceptively edited film at 11.

I think you typed “Right-wing” when you meant “Partisan political”.

Nope.

Then you’re no better than those you’re criticizing.
I think he is.  TP to FWF for being one of the most reasonable people in the current event forums.

Reasonable in an echo chamber / confirmation bias sort of way. I think FWF would admit that he’s closer to left than center.  The fact that he only sees bad faith in right wing media speaks quite loudly to his bias. The fact that you agree says something about your own.

I read a lot of Huff Post, Kos, Mother Jones, and plenty of others. To not see bad faith or intentional misleading is comical, similar to not seeing it on Breitbart.
not getting into a debate with you Roy -- your biases have been on display for quite a while and you've shown far more bias than FWF in your commentary. 

another TP for FWF for fighting the good fight.

Oh, I’m clearly a dedicated conservative and Republican.

I’m also unbiased enough to know that both sides of the partisan political media act in bad faith. If you think Sean Hannity is the devil but see no problem with Rachel Maddox, you’re part of the problem.
One of these two reports on a real life international scandal starring our president.
One of  these two does everything they can to discredit the institutions and investigators that are defending our nation against an ongoing attack.
Keep up the false equivalency, what’s the worst that could happen.
One

I mean, this attitude pretty much sums up politics today:  I don't care if I'm being lied to / misled, so long as I'm being told what I want to hear.

Rachel Maddow doesn't "report" on anything.  She skews facts to fit an agenda.  So does Hannity.  So does Breitbart.  So does Mother Jones.  So does Daily Caller.  So does Huffington Post.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #319 on: July 22, 2018, 11:28:44 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Well, well, well....

https://thenationalsentinel.com/2018/07/22/james-clapper-comes-clean-says-obama-behind-trump-campaign-witch-hunt/

I explored and found what I could in terms of direct quotes from Clapper re: the interview referred to. Seems to me he said almost the opposite of what is claimed in the article you posted.  Sorry — I only have phone with me and don’t know how to link.  But Clapper actually said that Obama should be credited with getting the wheels turning on Russia meddling and that it is in no way a witch hunt. 

Someone better skilled than I am at this type of research maybe could link actual in-context quotes from Clapper or perhaps the video alluded to in Greenback’s post.  I will readily admit if I have it wrong, but my 20 minutes of searching for Clappers actual words left me with the opposite conclusion portrayed in the article Greenback posted.

Right-wing media is a bottomless well of bad faith, deceptively edited film at 11.

I think you typed “Right-wing” when you meant “Partisan political”.

Nope.

Then you’re no better than those you’re criticizing.
I think he is.  TP to FWF for being one of the most reasonable people in the current event forums.

Reasonable in an echo chamber / confirmation bias sort of way. I think FWF would admit that he’s closer to left than center.  The fact that he only sees bad faith in right wing media speaks quite loudly to his bias. The fact that you agree says something about your own.

I read a lot of Huff Post, Kos, Mother Jones, and plenty of others. To not see bad faith or intentional misleading is comical, similar to not seeing it on Breitbart.
not getting into a debate with you Roy -- your biases have been on display for quite a while and you've shown far more bias than FWF in your commentary. 

another TP for FWF for fighting the good fight.

Oh, I’m clearly a dedicated conservative and Republican.

I’m also unbiased enough to know that both sides of the partisan political media act in bad faith. If you think Sean Hannity is the devil but see no problem with Rachel Maddox, you’re part of the problem.
One of these two reports on a real life international scandal starring our president.
One of  these two does everything they can to discredit the institutions and investigators that are defending our nation against an ongoing attack.
Keep up the false equivalency, what’s the worst that could happen.
One

I mean, this attitude pretty much sums up politics today:  I don't care if I'm being lied to / misled, so long as I'm being told what I want to hear.

Rachel Maddow doesn't "report" on anything.  She skews facts to fit an agenda.  So does Hannity.  So does Breitbart.  So does Mother Jones.  So does Daily Caller.  So does Huffington Post.
that's where I think you're missing the point Roy.  People can call out Trump for the crap/lies he spews and the people/organizations that support him without being "for" the other side.  lies are lies Roy and there's nothing wrong with calling them out.  (there's no issue with traditional Republicans or Conservatism--> this is very Trump-focussed issue with these debates.  Where he's taken the Republican party is to new policies truly alien to prior Republican administrations and leadership --> I mean come on -- since when have Republicans not been pro-FBI/Law Enforcement AND Anti-Russia/Communism AND pro-free trade?)

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #320 on: July 22, 2018, 11:31:05 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Well, well, well....

https://thenationalsentinel.com/2018/07/22/james-clapper-comes-clean-says-obama-behind-trump-campaign-witch-hunt/

I explored and found what I could in terms of direct quotes from Clapper re: the interview referred to. Seems to me he said almost the opposite of what is claimed in the article you posted.  Sorry — I only have phone with me and don’t know how to link.  But Clapper actually said that Obama should be credited with getting the wheels turning on Russia meddling and that it is in no way a witch hunt. 

Someone better skilled than I am at this type of research maybe could link actual in-context quotes from Clapper or perhaps the video alluded to in Greenback’s post.  I will readily admit if I have it wrong, but my 20 minutes of searching for Clappers actual words left me with the opposite conclusion portrayed in the article Greenback posted.

Right-wing media is a bottomless well of bad faith, deceptively edited film at 11.

I think you typed “Right-wing” when you meant “Partisan political”.

Nope.

Then you’re no better than those you’re criticizing.
I think he is.  TP to FWF for being one of the most reasonable people in the current event forums.

Reasonable in an echo chamber / confirmation bias sort of way. I think FWF would admit that he’s closer to left than center.  The fact that he only sees bad faith in right wing media speaks quite loudly to his bias. The fact that you agree says something about your own.

I read a lot of Huff Post, Kos, Mother Jones, and plenty of others. To not see bad faith or intentional misleading is comical, similar to not seeing it on Breitbart.
not getting into a debate with you Roy -- your biases have been on display for quite a while and you've shown far more bias than FWF in your commentary. 

another TP for FWF for fighting the good fight.

Oh, I’m clearly a dedicated conservative and Republican.

I’m also unbiased enough to know that both sides of the partisan political media act in bad faith. If you think Sean Hannity is the devil but see no problem with Rachel Maddox, you’re part of the problem.
One of these two reports on a real life international scandal starring our president.
One of  these two does everything they can to discredit the institutions and investigators that are defending our nation against an ongoing attack.
Keep up the false equivalency, what’s the worst that could happen.
One

I mean, this attitude pretty much sums up politics today:  I don't care if I'm being lied to / misled, so long as I'm being told what I want to hear.

Rachel Maddow doesn't "report" on anything.  She skews facts to fit an agenda.  So does Hannity.  So does Breitbart.  So does Mother Jones.  So does Daily Caller.  So does Huffington Post.
that's where I think you're missing the point Roy.  People can call out Trump for the crap/lies he spews and the people/organizations that support him without being "for" the other side.  lies are lies Roy and there's nothing wrong with calling them out.  (there's no issue with traditional Republicans or Conservatism--> this is very Trump-focussed issue with these debates.  Where he's taken the Republican party is to new policies truly alien to prior Republican administrations and leadership --> I mean come on -- since when have Republicans not been pro-FBI/Law Enforcement AND Anti-Russia/Communism AND pro-free trade?)

What does any of that have to do with dishonest / slanted / misleading / heavily biased "news"?

The dividing line isn't "Pro-Trump" / "Anti-Trump".  It's fair / unfair; slanted / unslanted.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #321 on: July 23, 2018, 12:10:38 AM »

Offline blink

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so Trump says this to Iran:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1021234525626609666

but he can't fully admit that Russia interfered in our elections and Putin wanted him as President? Putin must really have something on him. 

I know Trump is just trying to change the headlines, but it is pretty dumb even for him.  It's about time the White House cabinet and Congress step in to right the ship.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 12:17:34 AM by blink »

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #322 on: July 23, 2018, 12:18:52 AM »

Online Roy H.

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so Trump says this to Iran:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1021234525626609666

but he can't fully admit that Russia interfered in our elections and Putin wanted him as President?
Putin must really have something on him. 

I know Trump is just trying to change the headlines, but it is pretty dumb even for him.

Trump should send Rouhani a fruit basket for allowing him to change the subject.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #323 on: July 23, 2018, 12:25:24 AM »

Offline blink

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so Trump says this to Iran:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1021234525626609666

but he can't fully admit that Russia interfered in our elections and Putin wanted him as President?
Putin must really have something on him. 

I know Trump is just trying to change the headlines, but it is pretty dumb even for him.

Trump should send Rouhani a fruit basket for allowing him to change the subject.

We don't have a president we have a liability and someone who doesn't care about the american people. 

This type of twitter sabre rattling is incredibly dumb and dangerous.  When will the republican adults in the room (white house and congress) decide that it is in our best interests as a nation to move on from Trump? 

It starts with the republicans in congress.  They have completely capitulated to a guy who is willing to push flat out war with Iran to distract the public from the fact that he is in deep **** with the Russia probe.




Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #324 on: July 23, 2018, 12:39:17 AM »

Online Roy H.

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so Trump says this to Iran:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1021234525626609666

but he can't fully admit that Russia interfered in our elections and Putin wanted him as President?
Putin must really have something on him. 

I know Trump is just trying to change the headlines, but it is pretty dumb even for him.

Trump should send Rouhani a fruit basket for allowing him to change the subject.

We don't have a president we have a liability and someone who doesn't care about the american people. 

This type of twitter sabre rattling is incredibly dumb and dangerous.  When will the republican adults in the room (white house and congress) decide that it is in our best interests as a nation to move on from Trump? 

It starts with the republicans in congress.  They have completely capitulated to a guy who is willing to push flat out war with Iran to distract the public from the fact that he is in deep **** with the Russia probe.

Republicans are scared of Trump voters. Since almost all politicians care mostly about getting re-elected, most GOP pols won’t seriously criticize him except on the really blatant stuff. I’m curious to see what Senator Romney does.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #325 on: July 23, 2018, 03:26:21 AM »

Online nickagneta

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so Trump says this to Iran:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1021234525626609666

but he can't fully admit that Russia interfered in our elections and Putin wanted him as President?
Putin must really have something on him. 

I know Trump is just trying to change the headlines, but it is pretty dumb even for him.

Trump should send Rouhani a fruit basket for allowing him to change the subject.

We don't have a president we have a liability and someone who doesn't care about the american people. 

This type of twitter sabre rattling is incredibly dumb and dangerous.  When will the republican adults in the room (white house and congress) decide that it is in our best interests as a nation to move on from Trump? 

It starts with the republicans in congress.  They have completely capitulated to a guy who is willing to push flat out war with Iran to distract the public from the fact that he is in deep **** with the Russia probe.

Republicans are scared of Trump voters. Since almost all politicians care mostly about getting re-elected, most GOP pols won’t seriously criticize him except on the really blatant stuff. I’m curious to see what Senator Romney does.
He runs in the Republican primaries and gets the nod over Trump.....President Romney

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #326 on: July 23, 2018, 06:10:23 AM »

Online Roy H.

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so Trump says this to Iran:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1021234525626609666

but he can't fully admit that Russia interfered in our elections and Putin wanted him as President?
Putin must really have something on him. 

I know Trump is just trying to change the headlines, but it is pretty dumb even for him.

Trump should send Rouhani a fruit basket for allowing him to change the subject.

We don't have a president we have a liability and someone who doesn't care about the american people. 

This type of twitter sabre rattling is incredibly dumb and dangerous.  When will the republican adults in the room (white house and congress) decide that it is in our best interests as a nation to move on from Trump? 

It starts with the republicans in congress.  They have completely capitulated to a guy who is willing to push flat out war with Iran to distract the public from the fact that he is in deep **** with the Russia probe.

Republicans are scared of Trump voters. Since almost all politicians care mostly about getting re-elected, most GOP pols won’t seriously criticize him except on the really blatant stuff. I’m curious to see what Senator Romney does.
He runs in the Republican primaries and gets the nod over Trump.....President Romney

If only.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #327 on: July 23, 2018, 09:18:57 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Well, well, well....

https://thenationalsentinel.com/2018/07/22/james-clapper-comes-clean-says-obama-behind-trump-campaign-witch-hunt/

I explored and found what I could in terms of direct quotes from Clapper re: the interview referred to. Seems to me he said almost the opposite of what is claimed in the article you posted.  Sorry — I only have phone with me and don’t know how to link.  But Clapper actually said that Obama should be credited with getting the wheels turning on Russia meddling and that it is in no way a witch hunt. 

Someone better skilled than I am at this type of research maybe could link actual in-context quotes from Clapper or perhaps the video alluded to in Greenback’s post.  I will readily admit if I have it wrong, but my 20 minutes of searching for Clappers actual words left me with the opposite conclusion portrayed in the article Greenback posted.

Right-wing media is a bottomless well of bad faith, deceptively edited film at 11.

I think you typed “Right-wing” when you meant “Partisan political”.

Nope.

Then you’re no better than those you’re criticizing.

Sorry, I was off for the night. Also nope.



On topic, people are focusing on the "Last verse of 'Stan' tribute" Tweet against Iran, but just a few hours earlier the President of the United States walked back his walked-back walkback of the walkback of his Helsinki statements, returning to his rhetorical safe space of giving aid and comfort to those who attacked America for his benefit.

Which is a long way of saying we're back to Russian interference being categorically a hoax, with an added dollop of blaming the previous President not telling Trump's campaign what Trump's campaign was doing. So if we're keeping score, country who hasn't attacked America = Mad Online threats + vitriol, country who did = carrying water for the attackers, smearing and spreading conspiracies about American law enforcement for investigating it.

Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #328 on: July 23, 2018, 10:21:25 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Quote
country who hasn't attacked America = Mad Online threats + vitriol

More like “the country that had just threatened America”. 

Also, Iran is a state sponsor of terror, and allegedly was complicit in the 9/11, USS Cole, and US Embassy attacks. In other words, they’ve attacked America.

Trump is very weak on Russia. That doesn’t that Iran should be handled softly.


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Re: 12 Russians indicted for hacking DNC, Clinton/Helsinki Summit
« Reply #329 on: July 23, 2018, 10:32:56 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Quote
country who hasn't attacked America = Mad Online threats + vitriol

More like “the country that had just threatened America”. 

Also, Iran is a state sponsor of terror, and allegedly was complicit in the 9/11, USS Cole, and US Embassy attacks. In other words, they’ve attacked America.

Trump is very weak on Russia. That doesn’t that Iran should be handled softly.

Iran is truly an American foe and also a foe to democracy in general.  That does not mean that Trump's unhinged tweet is the way that I want to see our country dealing with them.  I actually thought that forming a world-wide coalition, imposing sanctions as a unified group, and then negotiating what was a fairly reasonable (but by no mean perfect) nuclear deal was a much better approach.  So you think Trump's diplomacy by tweet is better?

And doesn't this make it even more clear that there is something fishy with Trump and Russia?  He lashes out at any other country, including Canada but not one word about Russia?