Author Topic: Trump is spending a lot!  (Read 970 times)

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Re: Trump is spending a lot!
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2018, 04:27:36 PM »

Offline liam

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I wonder if Republicans will ever return to their fiscally responsible roots.

It's amazing to me how Republicans continue to get fiscal conservatives to vote for them, when neither party is fiscally conservative anymore.

As a beaten down democrat, I might even consider voting Republican if that candidate ran on state's rights and fiscal responsibility. Neither party really gives me what I want, I just find the Democrats policies less abhorrent.

Republicans haven't been fiscally conservative since Ike! I liked Ike!

Re: Trump is spending a lot!
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2018, 04:28:36 PM »

Offline byennie

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It’ll pay off in the long run when we stop being dependent on other countries for things  and bring back entire industries of jobs here in America

IMO this comes down to a fundamental misunderstanding of treating trade as a zero-sum game. The US isolating itself makes about as much economic sense as Wyoming going it alone vs the other 49 states. Until/ unless you suddenly have the ability to do everything domestically as well as the rest of the world combined, despite regional differences, isolationism is economic idiocy.

There is no model in which we "bring back" manufacturing and it benefits the country as a whole. None. The moment you start making everything within our borders, all of the workers will be extremely poor, because either they'll be paid 3rd world wages, or the cost of goods will go through the roof.

The USA is an overwhelming *beneficiary* of global trade, but here we have ideology about the importance of coal mines and blue collar job creation defying all reason.
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Re: Trump is spending a lot!
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2018, 04:29:23 PM »

Offline liam

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It’ll pay off in the long run when we stop being dependent on other countries for things  and bring back entire industries of jobs here in America

IMO this comes down to a fundamental misunderstanding of treating trade as a zero-sum game. The US isolating itself makes about as much economic sense as Wyoming going it alone vs the other 49 states. Until/ unless you suddenly have the ability to do everything domestically as well as the rest of the world combined, despite regional differences, isolationism is economic idiocy.

There is no model in which we "bring back" manufacturing and it benefits the country as a whole. None.

Most manufacturing jobs have been lost to machines. Maybe we should have a war with them....

Re: Trump is spending a lot!
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2018, 04:34:46 PM »

Offline liam

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It’ll pay off in the long run when we stop being dependent on other countries for things  and bring back entire industries of jobs here in America

IMO this comes down to a fundamental misunderstanding of treating trade as a zero-sum game. The US isolating itself makes about as much economic sense as Wyoming going it alone vs the other 49 states. Until/ unless you suddenly have the ability to do everything domestically as well as the rest of the world combined, despite regional differences, isolationism is economic idiocy.

There is no model in which we "bring back" manufacturing and it benefits the country as a whole. None. The moment you start making everything within our borders, all of the workers will be extremely poor, because either they'll be paid 3rd world wages, or the cost of goods will go through the roof.

The USA is an overwhelming *beneficiary* of global trade, but here we have ideology about the importance of coal mines and blue collar job creation defying all reason.

Nostalgia is like looking at the world through blurry lenses.  There was no good old days of coal or kids being maimed in factories working 80 hours a week. Things are better now but you need skills that are happening now. Unskilled jobs have always been dirty, dangerous and dead end.

Re: Trump is spending a lot!
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2018, 04:40:41 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Dropping the minimum wage to about 50 cents/hour.  That will be bring back the jobs.

What company in their right mind is going to keep jobs in the US when they can drastically improve their profit margin by decreasing their labor costs by manufacturing or whatever overseas?

Plus, we see all those new jobs being created by companies flush with cash since the Tax Cut Bill went into effect....


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Re: Trump is spending a lot!
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2018, 04:49:46 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Do people who think we’re going to bring manufacturing back realize that even China is losing manufacturing jobs? The big story is automation, and that isn’t turning around. Over the past century agriculture went from being a huge employer to about 2% of the work force. Manufacturing is following a similar trajectory.

Re: Trump is spending a lot!
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2018, 05:05:06 PM »

Online nickagneta

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When I saw the thread title I thought this was about Trump's $77,000 golfing trip to Great Britain or his constant trips to Mar-a-Lago.

$12 billion in hand outs to farmers is okay but gotta cut Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security because the old in infirm don't deserve handouts!

Re: Trump is spending a lot!
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2018, 08:01:16 PM »

Online Cman

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When I saw the thread title I thought this was about Trump's $77,000 golfing trip to Great Britain or his constant trips to Mar-a-Lago.

$12 billion in hand outs to farmers large agricultural companies is okay but gotta cut Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security because the old in infirm don't deserve handouts!

^^ fixed it for ya!^^
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Re: Trump is spending a lot!
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2018, 09:04:42 PM »

Online trickybilly

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I like the Chinese tariffs. I do not like the Canadian and EU ones.

Care to explain?
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Re: Trump is spending a lot!
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2018, 09:21:24 PM »

Offline byennie

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It’ll pay off in the long run when we stop being dependent on other countries for things  and bring back entire industries of jobs here in America

IMO this comes down to a fundamental misunderstanding of treating trade as a zero-sum game. The US isolating itself makes about as much economic sense as Wyoming going it alone vs the other 49 states. Until/ unless you suddenly have the ability to do everything domestically as well as the rest of the world combined, despite regional differences, isolationism is economic idiocy.

There is no model in which we "bring back" manufacturing and it benefits the country as a whole. None. The moment you start making everything within our borders, all of the workers will be extremely poor, because either they'll be paid 3rd world wages, or the cost of goods will go through the roof.

The USA is an overwhelming *beneficiary* of global trade, but here we have ideology about the importance of coal mines and blue collar job creation defying all reason.

Nostalgia is like looking at the world through blurry lenses.  There was no good old days of coal or kids being maimed in factories working 80 hours a week. Things are better now but you need skills that are happening now. Unskilled jobs have always been dirty, dangerous and dead end.

Indeed. Until we achieve even greater technology -- advanced AI specifically -- there are plenty of jobs to be created working alongside technology. Eventually we must deal with the idea of post-scarcity when it comes to basic needs, though. There will be the option to meet everyone's basic needs with a fraction of the population working, and then what? Force labor in the name of capitalism? Greatly increase social programs and make jobs optional?

Personally I think there are sensible paths forward where we support higher education, better wages for fewer hours, basic income and so forth. But, the status quo are going to fight it tooth and nail.
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Re: Trump is spending a lot!
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2018, 09:47:22 PM »

Offline Greenback

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The Chinese government subsidized their solar industry producers to cut their prices and be able to dump in the US and wipe out our solar manufacturing industry.  These actions violated China’s WTO obligations.  China was cheating.

The gloves may now be off.  I suspect that Trump is helping US farmers to increase their output of certain commodities so that the US can capture those commodity markets.

Everyone wants truth on his side, not everyone wants to be on the side of truth.

Re: Trump is spending a lot!
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2018, 04:34:06 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Fun Fact:  When "deficit hawk" Paul Ryan took over as Speaker of the House, the annual deficit was $439 billion.  Now just a couple of years later, in a good economy, it's more than doubled to $890 billion, and will be nearly $1.1 trillion next year.

Always remember that the next time Republican elites pretend to care about the deficit & debt, which will coincidentally be the next time they don't control one of the major branches.

Re: Trump is spending a lot!
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2018, 04:44:36 PM »

Offline Pucaccia

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Fun Fact:  When "deficit hawk" Paul Ryan took over as Speaker of the House, the annual deficit was $439 billion.  Now just a couple of years later, in a good economy, it's more than doubled to $890 billion, and will be nearly $1.1 trillion next year.

Always remember that the next time Republican elites pretend to care about the deficit & debt, which will coincidentally be the next time they don't control one of the major branches.

don't confuse Ryan as being a conservative.  He is a Rhino.  real conservatives don't agree with Ryan, and want the spending to stop. Most republicans can't wait for him to step down as speaker.

Re: Trump is spending a lot!
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2018, 06:33:46 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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Fun Fact:  When "deficit hawk" Paul Ryan took over as Speaker of the House, the annual deficit was $439 billion.  Now just a couple of years later, in a good economy, it's more than doubled to $890 billion, and will be nearly $1.1 trillion next year.

Always remember that the next time Republican elites pretend to care about the deficit & debt, which will coincidentally be the next time they don't control one of the major branches.

don't confuse Ryan as being a conservative.  He is a Rhino.  real conservatives don't agree with Ryan, and want the spending to stop. Most republicans can't wait for him to step down as speaker.

The reason Ryan hasn’t cut spending as much as the Freedom Caucus wants is that there are no votes for it. The caucus is less than a tenth of the Congress.  Ryan focused on tax cuts at the top end and delivered on that. The resulting debt explosion? Someone else’s problem.

Ryan probably hopes that a debt crisis will ultimately lead to spending cuts, but fundamentally he isn’t going to let a debt increase stop him as long as he gets those tax cuts.

This doesn’t make him a RINO, it makes him the typical Republican.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 07:22:05 AM by Sophomore »

Re: Trump is spending a lot!
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2018, 07:28:40 AM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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The Chinese government subsidized their solar industry producers to cut their prices and be able to dump in the US and wipe out our solar manufacturing industry.  These actions violated China’s WTO obligations.  China was cheating.

The gloves may now be off.  I suspect that Trump is helping US farmers to increase their output of certain commodities so that the US can capture those commodity markets.

Your suspicion is spurious