Author Topic: Reddit user summarizes 3 Cleveland beat writers podcasts regarding Kyrie/Cavs  (Read 968 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Monkhouse

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5283
  • Tommy Points: 518
  • A true Celtic plays with heart.
Quote
The 3 main beat writers (Dave McMenamin-ESPN, Joe Vardon-Cleveland.com, and Jason Lloyd-The Athletic) that covered the Cavs over the past 4 years just did a podcast together, giving an inside look at the Cavs team and the relationships between the players.

A lot of interesting notes from the podcast:

Vardon and McMenamin were notified by LeBron's camp (or maybe the Cavs camp. They were vague on this) on Thursday, before lebron opted out, that the Lakers decision was pretty much a done deal.

Immediately after the 2016 Championship, someone important in LeBron's camp told Vardon that LeBron's next plan was to go to the Lakers to 'play with his friends' (Vardon believes the 'friends' part meant the banana boat)

Kyrie never made strong relationships within the Cavs organization/FO, both before and while LeBron was in CLE. Kyrie didn't like Mike Brown because Larry Hughes, a client of Kyrie's agent, already had a bad relationship with Brown. There was also serious debate within the Cavs to choose Dion Waiters over Kyrie at one point.

Kyrie didn't like Lue very much, especially after Ty Lue told the media that "players need to put their brands aside", meaning Love and Kyrie need to stop worrying about endorsements and trust LeBron to lead the team. Ty Lue admitted to Dave McMenamin that Kyrie has treated him like a stranger since day 1 and that it is 'impossible to break through to him'. (which may have been why Kyrie made those remarks this year about coaching styles)

Kyrie did not appreciate LeBron questions directed at him. McMenamin was writing a story about LeBron's improved 3 point shot but Kyrie was annoyed when he approached him about any noticeable changes in LeBron's technique. The media also made a deal about LeBron wearing the "I can't breathe" shirts, despite Kyrie being the first Cav to wear it. All 3 reporters believe this clearly bothered Kyrie.

Lloyd approached Lebron at the start of this past season and told him that 'you and Kyrie hid the poor status of the relationship very well the past few years' and LeBron agreed (although Lloyd could not reveal the exact quote)

Kyrie and his camp considered leaving after the championship but decided otherwise. Kyrie's father wanted a bigger role in the organization and did not appreciate LeBron's friend, Randy Mims, having a position within the organization.

A big reason why Kyrie wanted out of CLE last year is because he felt the team was built to support LeBron's strengths, and if LeBron left, Kyrie would only be left with those parts that benefitted LeBron's game. Kyrie also told FO that he would opt for surgery if they didn't trade him last year.

The flat earth drama really bothered Kyrie. Didn't like that he was receiving attention now instead of about more serious topics (political and social) like Lebron

LeBron and Love's relationship was rocky in the very first year because Love came to camp out of shape.

Kyrie did not talk to any of his teammates between last years Indiana and Toronto series. Not even during practices.

The most dejected the reporters have ever seen LeBron after a game was after Game 6 Finals in 2015. Lebron sat at his locker for about an hour with a towel over his head. The second most dejected was after Game 1 this year. After winning two Game 7's, hitting 2 buzzer beaters, beating higher seeds, with a new team and without Kyrie, scoring 51 points against the Warriors, all the air went out of him.

LeBron did not just hit the whiteboard once. He bashed at it several times.

The JR Smith soup throwing story is one of ESPN'S top 10 stories of the year. They believe the thing that started the drama may have just been simple teasing or a shooting competition that escalated

Wade played a major role in the mid-season team meeting. Cavs felt like locker room was irreparable after that and was a reason he was shipped back to Miami

LeBron would always talk to McMenamin about LA (Hotspots and restaurants), as Dave used to cover the Lakers. Lloyd joked with LeBron throughout the year about him leaving after this season but LeBron genuinely seemed unsure of his decision

Cavs had two players on their radar during the draft. Trae Young, who Gilbert wanted, and Sexton who most of the organization wanted. They had considered Porter until his medical records came out.

They all believe that after hearing Klay's post-Game 4 remarks about basketball being a "man's game" and that LeBron must have "gotten his feelings hurt", LeBron's demeanor shifted entirely and was the turning point of the 2016 Finals. Lebron was in a good mood during shootaround that morning until he heard about those comments.

u/Mrilly posted up a summarized detailing the rockiness of the relationship. It confirms all of my fears, and thoughts pretty well. Any LeBron led team is driven by LeBron. If you're not cut out to be on the team, you generally don't make it far.

LeBron takes the credit, and you take all the blame if you can't step up behind the greatest player.

Also gives credence that LeBron isn't a true leader, but Kyrie also comes off as a prima donna/diva in my book. Not talking to your teammates in the playoffs? I don't like the sound of that. But the Cavs seemed very dysfunctional.


From my point of view, it seems like Kyrie craves attention. I think he wants to be in an environment where he can promote his brand, his creative mind, and be able to be heard while playing in a professional setting.

Stevens and Ainge seem like the perfect mix to convince Kyrie otherwise. I think he stays, and I think him leaving would be absolutely foolish.


Thoughts?

Link to podcast if anyone is interested.

https://923thefan.radio.com/articles/cavs-roundtable-discussion-jason-lloyd-dave-mcmenamin-and-joe-vardon
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different

Offline greece666

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7105
  • Tommy Points: 1194
  • Head Paperboy at Greenville
Great post Monkhouse.

Just for completeness, here's the title:

>[Lloyd] It has been made clear to me by multiple people, Kyrie never wanted LeBron to come back in the first place. (After a Miami game) LeBron said keep doing what you're doing, you never know I could be back one day. Kyrie in the locker room said "What's he talking about? We don't need that guy."

Offline fairweatherfan

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18522
  • Tommy Points: 2036
  • Be the posts you wish to see in the world.
Thanks for the post!  Interesting stuff. None of this is too shocking but it fleshes out what people already figured had happened. Kyrie resenting LeBron for getting more attention on social issues while he's mostly known as a flake for the flat earth thing makes a lot of sense.

Someday we'll get an oral history that gets to the bottom of JR throwing that soup and I'll be here for it.

Offline ETNCeltics

  • NCE
  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 934
  • Tommy Points: 105
I don't think Kyrie craving attention is much of an issue. He doesn't seem too bad in that regard, certainly no worse than half the NBA.

I think he's just a wierd guy that most of us, and probably many of his teammates, don't relate to very well.

Offline Monkhouse

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5283
  • Tommy Points: 518
  • A true Celtic plays with heart.
Thanks for the post!  Interesting stuff. None of this is too shocking but it fleshes out what people already figured had happened. Kyrie resenting LeBron for getting more attention on social issues while he's mostly known as a flake for the flat earth thing makes a lot of sense.

Someday we'll get an oral history that gets to the bottom of JR throwing that soup and I'll be here for it.
I don't think Kyrie craving attention is much of an issue. He doesn't seem too bad in that regard, certainly no worse than half the NBA.

I think he's just a wierd guy that most of us, and probably many of his teammates, don't relate to very well.
Great post Monkhouse.

Just for completeness, here's the title:

>[Lloyd] It has been made clear to me by multiple people, Kyrie never wanted LeBron to come back in the first place. (After a Miami game) LeBron said keep doing what you're doing, you never know I could be back one day. Kyrie in the locker room said "What's he talking about? We don't need that guy."

greece666, I wonder how much of that is in conjecture to the apparent dislike for Kyrie demanding a trade. Has to be somewhat related in terms of being biased, or having disparaging semblance of thoughts after finding out the reality that some players just do not like playing with LeBron.

fairweatherfan: I can see how those would collide. Kyrie never really got the respect he deserved, and not to mention pre-LeBron that team/roster wasn't ever designed to exploit Kyrie's strengths, (scoring, handling, passing,) and exfoliate his weaknesses, (rough passing, terrible defenders, incompetent coaching.)

ETNCeltics: I somewhat agree. Kyrie hasn't exactly done things I would've been proud of, but he seems like a very laidback guy that is pretty quirky, but has certain demands that he needs met. Also Shumpert, Thompson, and Richard Jefferson were all very close to him. Interestingly enough, all 3 except Thompson, (who by stroke of luck was shared by the same agent as LeBron, got a loud endorsement which led to his overpaid contract.)
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different

Offline Celtics4ever

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16156
  • Tommy Points: 1044
Quote
Also gives credence that LeBron isn't a true leader,

I have always thought that he was not.  But he is a guy who can try to put you on his back and win games.

Offline tarheelsxxiii

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7346
  • Tommy Points: 1241
I feel about as validated as possible regarding all things Kyrie to this point.  I understand it's not good for the organization (hence why I care), but it always feels good to be right, right?

Here is a recap for the time-limited reader:


Kyrie never made strong relationships within the Cavs.  This was not due to LeBron's arrival, as it was the case before and after.
   interpretation: Kyrie does not get along well with others, lacks professionalism

Kyrie did not like Mike Brown because another player under his agent did not like Mike Brown.
   interpretation: Kyrie does not form his own opinions of others. 

Cavs seriously considered drafting Waiters ahead of Kyrie.
   interpretation: Waiters was considered flawed because of his attitude and lack of a natural position, so perhaps Kyrie was seen as flawed or overly concerning due to injury history.

Kyrie did not like Lue because Lue encouraged players to 'put their brands aside' for the sake of winning.
   interpretation: Prioritizes his brand (selfish, narcissist), can't get along with others

Lue stated that Kyrie treated him like a stranger since day 1 and he was 'impossible to get through to'
   interpretation: Narcissist, can't get along with others.

Kyrie did not appreciate LeBron directing questions towards him
   interpretation: Narcissist, can't get along with others

Kyrie was upset because a reporter approached him about LeBron's 3 point shot
   interpretation: Narcissist, which goes hand-in-hand with jealousy and deep insecurity

Kyrie was upset because LeBron got credit for "I can't breathe shirts" but Kyrie wore them first!
   interpretation: Immature narcissist

Kyrie wanted out of CLE last year in large part because the team was built around LeBron and he would ultimately be left with those pieces
   interpretation: Somewhat fair, though he's not good enough for a championship team to be built around his strengths

Related to the above, Kyrie threatened surgery if he was not traded
   interpretation: Immature, lack of professionalism

The flat earth drama really bothered Kyrie -- he was upset that this garnered so much attention instead of social/political issues (like LeBron received more attention for)
   interpretation: Immature, jealous.  If Kyrie wanted to make statements about social/political issues, he should have done just that -- instead, he took an indirect approach (if he's being honest) that was more driven by more attention-seeking behavior.

Kyrie did not talk to any of his teammates between the Indiana and Toronto series, not even during practices
   interpretation: Immature, narcissist, doesn't get along well with others

-----

In a nutshell, Kyrie is a jerk with all sorts of issues and a very warped perception of how special he is.   

For some reason, Celtics fans refuse to acknowledge this.  Yet I'm positive that when he does cross a line with fans (e.g., abandon the team; bash his teammates or the organization, etc), many will suddenly become upset as if they didn't expect it.  But please remember: The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

When this day comes, I promise not to say "I told you so."  I'd rather you just consider the importance of character in team-building.
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2381
  • Tommy Points: 432
I feel about as validated as possible regarding all things Kyrie to this point.  I understand it's not good for the organization (hence why I care), but it always feels good to be right, right?

Here is a recap for the time-limited reader:


Kyrie never made strong relationships within the Cavs.  This was not due to LeBron's arrival, as it was the case before and after.
   interpretation: Kyrie does not get along well with others, lacks professionalism

Kyrie did not like Mike Brown because another player under his agent did not like Mike Brown.
   interpretation: Kyrie does not form his own opinions of others. 

Cavs seriously considered drafting Waiters ahead of Kyrie.
   interpretation: Waiters was considered flawed because of his attitude and lack of a natural position, so perhaps Kyrie was seen as flawed or overly concerning due to injury history.

Kyrie did not like Lue because Lue encouraged players to 'put their brands aside' for the sake of winning.
interpretation: Prioritizes his brand (selfish, narcissist), can't get along with others

Lue stated that Kyrie treated him like a stranger since day 1 and he was 'impossible to get through to'
interpretation: Narcissist, can't get along with others.

Kyrie did not appreciate LeBron directing questions towards him
interpretation: Narcissist, can't get along with others

Kyrie was upset because a reporter approached him about LeBron's 3 point shot
interpretation: Narcissist, which goes hand-in-hand with jealousy and deep insecurity

Kyrie was upset because LeBron got credit for "I can't breathe shirts" but Kyrie wore them first!
interpretation: Immature narcissist

Kyrie wanted out of CLE last year in large part because the team was built around LeBron and he would ultimately be left with those pieces
interpretation: Somewhat fair, though he's not good enough for a championship team to be built around his strengths

Related to the above, Kyrie threatened surgery if he was not traded
interpretation: Immature, lack of professionalism

The flat earth drama really bothered Kyrie -- he was upset that this garnered so much attention instead of social/political issues (like LeBron received more attention for)
interpretation: Immature, jealous.  If Kyrie wanted to make statements about social/political issues, he should have done just that -- instead, he took an indirect approach (if he's being honest) that was more driven by more attention-seeking behavior.

Kyrie did not talk to any of his teammates between the Indiana and Toronto series, not even during practices
interpretation: Immature, narcissist, doesn't get along well with others

-----

In a nutshell, Kyrie is a jerk with all sorts of issues and a very warped perception of how special he is.   

For some reason, Celtics fans refuse to acknowledge this.  Yet I'm positive that when he does cross a line with fans (e.g., abandon the team; bash his teammates or the organization, etc), many will suddenly become upset as if they didn't expect it.  But please remember: The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

When this day comes, I promise not to say "I told you so."  I'd rather you just consider the importance of character in team-building.

 ::)

Your vendetta against Kyrie didn't start with his "behavior". It started with his college choice.

Its pretty easy to build a narrative to support any opinion. Cavs fans and reporters are still mad at Kyrie that he requested a trade. They are mad that they didn't get more in return for him. They are mad that Lebron James left them twice.

Now they are looking for someone to take out their anger on. Kyrie is an easy target in the national media right now.

Offline tarheelsxxiii

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7346
  • Tommy Points: 1241
I feel about as validated as possible regarding all things Kyrie to this point.  I understand it's not good for the organization (hence why I care), but it always feels good to be right, right?

Here is a recap for the time-limited reader:


Kyrie never made strong relationships within the Cavs.  This was not due to LeBron's arrival, as it was the case before and after.
   interpretation: Kyrie does not get along well with others, lacks professionalism

Kyrie did not like Mike Brown because another player under his agent did not like Mike Brown.
   interpretation: Kyrie does not form his own opinions of others. 

Cavs seriously considered drafting Waiters ahead of Kyrie.
   interpretation: Waiters was considered flawed because of his attitude and lack of a natural position, so perhaps Kyrie was seen as flawed or overly concerning due to injury history.

Kyrie did not like Lue because Lue encouraged players to 'put their brands aside' for the sake of winning.
interpretation: Prioritizes his brand (selfish, narcissist), can't get along with others

Lue stated that Kyrie treated him like a stranger since day 1 and he was 'impossible to get through to'
interpretation: Narcissist, can't get along with others.

Kyrie did not appreciate LeBron directing questions towards him
interpretation: Narcissist, can't get along with others

Kyrie was upset because a reporter approached him about LeBron's 3 point shot
interpretation: Narcissist, which goes hand-in-hand with jealousy and deep insecurity

Kyrie was upset because LeBron got credit for "I can't breathe shirts" but Kyrie wore them first!
interpretation: Immature narcissist

Kyrie wanted out of CLE last year in large part because the team was built around LeBron and he would ultimately be left with those pieces
interpretation: Somewhat fair, though he's not good enough for a championship team to be built around his strengths

Related to the above, Kyrie threatened surgery if he was not traded
interpretation: Immature, lack of professionalism

The flat earth drama really bothered Kyrie -- he was upset that this garnered so much attention instead of social/political issues (like LeBron received more attention for)
interpretation: Immature, jealous.  If Kyrie wanted to make statements about social/political issues, he should have done just that -- instead, he took an indirect approach (if he's being honest) that was more driven by more attention-seeking behavior.

Kyrie did not talk to any of his teammates between the Indiana and Toronto series, not even during practices
interpretation: Immature, narcissist, doesn't get along well with others

-----

In a nutshell, Kyrie is a jerk with all sorts of issues and a very warped perception of how special he is.   

For some reason, Celtics fans refuse to acknowledge this.  Yet I'm positive that when he does cross a line with fans (e.g., abandon the team; bash his teammates or the organization, etc), many will suddenly become upset as if they didn't expect it.  But please remember: The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

When this day comes, I promise not to say "I told you so."  I'd rather you just consider the importance of character in team-building.

 ::)

Your vendetta against Kyrie didn't start with his "behavior". It started with his college choice.

Its pretty easy to build a narrative to support any opinion. Cavs fans and reporters are still mad at Kyrie that he requested a trade. They are mad that they didn't get more in return for him. They are mad that Lebron James left them twice.

Now they are looking for someone to take out their anger on. Kyrie is an easy target in the national media right now.

Your speculation is entirely wrong. I'm on record as having issues with his behavior since the beginning.  Moreover, I don't follow college basketball and have no issues with Duke or its players.  I'm on record stating that over and over again, and have supported our drafting of Dukies.  I fail to understand why you assume this, but again, you're wrong.

This isn't a narrative, it's fact-based.  You can watch interviews online of him disrespecting reporters in child-like fashion; you can read quotes of him bashing him former organization and coach; you can objectively consider that he isn't supportive of his young teammates; you can read his fumbled statements about returning to Boston before he attempted to make them sound better in his next interview; you can see a complete deviation in his affect (happy, open_ when Simmons kissed his ass (and fed his narcissistic supply) throughout their podcast interview; you can admit that he risked missing the playoffs because he elected an unnecessary surgery; you can admit that he elected to shoot a movie instead of having said knee surgery during the summer. 

This is a prime example of cognitive dissonance in yet another Kyrie-related thread.  It'd behoove you to instead say (to yourself, first) "I do not value character among basketball players."  We then simply agree to disagree, though I don't appreciate your inaccurate speculation and judgment.
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2381
  • Tommy Points: 432
I feel about as validated as possible regarding all things Kyrie to this point.  I understand it's not good for the organization (hence why I care), but it always feels good to be right, right?

Here is a recap for the time-limited reader:


Kyrie never made strong relationships within the Cavs.  This was not due to LeBron's arrival, as it was the case before and after.
   interpretation: Kyrie does not get along well with others, lacks professionalism

Kyrie did not like Mike Brown because another player under his agent did not like Mike Brown.
   interpretation: Kyrie does not form his own opinions of others. 

Cavs seriously considered drafting Waiters ahead of Kyrie.
   interpretation: Waiters was considered flawed because of his attitude and lack of a natural position, so perhaps Kyrie was seen as flawed or overly concerning due to injury history.

Kyrie did not like Lue because Lue encouraged players to 'put their brands aside' for the sake of winning.
interpretation: Prioritizes his brand (selfish, narcissist), can't get along with others

Lue stated that Kyrie treated him like a stranger since day 1 and he was 'impossible to get through to'
interpretation: Narcissist, can't get along with others.

Kyrie did not appreciate LeBron directing questions towards him
interpretation: Narcissist, can't get along with others

Kyrie was upset because a reporter approached him about LeBron's 3 point shot
interpretation: Narcissist, which goes hand-in-hand with jealousy and deep insecurity

Kyrie was upset because LeBron got credit for "I can't breathe shirts" but Kyrie wore them first!
interpretation: Immature narcissist

Kyrie wanted out of CLE last year in large part because the team was built around LeBron and he would ultimately be left with those pieces
interpretation: Somewhat fair, though he's not good enough for a championship team to be built around his strengths

Related to the above, Kyrie threatened surgery if he was not traded
interpretation: Immature, lack of professionalism

The flat earth drama really bothered Kyrie -- he was upset that this garnered so much attention instead of social/political issues (like LeBron received more attention for)
interpretation: Immature, jealous.  If Kyrie wanted to make statements about social/political issues, he should have done just that -- instead, he took an indirect approach (if he's being honest) that was more driven by more attention-seeking behavior.

Kyrie did not talk to any of his teammates between the Indiana and Toronto series, not even during practices
interpretation: Immature, narcissist, doesn't get along well with others

-----

In a nutshell, Kyrie is a jerk with all sorts of issues and a very warped perception of how special he is.   

For some reason, Celtics fans refuse to acknowledge this.  Yet I'm positive that when he does cross a line with fans (e.g., abandon the team; bash his teammates or the organization, etc), many will suddenly become upset as if they didn't expect it.  But please remember: The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

When this day comes, I promise not to say "I told you so."  I'd rather you just consider the importance of character in team-building.

 ::)

Your vendetta against Kyrie didn't start with his "behavior". It started with his college choice.

Its pretty easy to build a narrative to support any opinion. Cavs fans and reporters are still mad at Kyrie that he requested a trade. They are mad that they didn't get more in return for him. They are mad that Lebron James left them twice.

Now they are looking for someone to take out their anger on. Kyrie is an easy target in the national media right now.

Your speculation is entirely wrong. I'm on record as having issues with his behavior since the beginning.  Moreover, I don't follow college basketball and have no issues with Duke or its players.  I'm on record stating that over and over again, and have supported our drafting of Dukies.  I fail to understand why you assume this, but again, you're wrong.

This isn't a narrative, it's fact-based.  You can watch interviews online of him disrespecting reporters in child-like fashion; you can read quotes of him bashing him former organization and coach; you can objectively consider that he isn't supportive of his young teammates; you can read his fumbled statements about returning to Boston before he attempted to make them sound better in his next interview; you can see a complete deviation in his affect (happy, open_ when Simmons kissed his ass (and fed his narcissistic supply) throughout their podcast interview; you can admit that he risked missing the playoffs because he elected an unnecessary surgery; you can admit that he elected to shoot a movie instead of having said knee surgery during the summer. 

This is a prime example of cognitive dissonance in yet another Kyrie-related thread.  It'd behoove you to instead say (to yourself, first) "I do not value character among basketball players."  We then simply agree to disagree, though I don't appreciate your inaccurate speculation and judgment.

My snark wasn't called for. I'm sorry.

Two people can see the same situation and come to completely different conclusions. I do value character, but I think the lighting in which they paint Irving from those stories is colored in their anger, not in true reporting. I see the same events listed, and both doubt parts and think "that's not a big deal" in other parts.

I'll agree to disagree with you in our view of Kyrie, but it's not because I don't value character. It's because I disagree with the interpretation of the various events listed here and your take on his character.

Offline TheSundanceKid

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2243
  • Tommy Points: 185
I feel about as validated as possible regarding all things Kyrie to this point.  I understand it's not good for the organization (hence why I care), but it always feels good to be right, right?

Here is a recap for the time-limited reader:


Kyrie never made strong relationships within the Cavs.  This was not due to LeBron's arrival, as it was the case before and after.
   interpretation: Kyrie does not get along well with others, lacks professionalism

Kyrie did not like Mike Brown because another player under his agent did not like Mike Brown.
   interpretation: Kyrie does not form his own opinions of others. 

Cavs seriously considered drafting Waiters ahead of Kyrie.
   interpretation: Waiters was considered flawed because of his attitude and lack of a natural position, so perhaps Kyrie was seen as flawed or overly concerning due to injury history.

Kyrie did not like Lue because Lue encouraged players to 'put their brands aside' for the sake of winning.
   interpretation: Prioritizes his brand (selfish, narcissist), can't get along with others

Lue stated that Kyrie treated him like a stranger since day 1 and he was 'impossible to get through to'
   interpretation: Narcissist, can't get along with others.

Kyrie did not appreciate LeBron directing questions towards him
   interpretation: Narcissist, can't get along with others

Kyrie was upset because a reporter approached him about LeBron's 3 point shot
   interpretation: Narcissist, which goes hand-in-hand with jealousy and deep insecurity

Kyrie was upset because LeBron got credit for "I can't breathe shirts" but Kyrie wore them first!
   interpretation: Immature narcissist

Kyrie wanted out of CLE last year in large part because the team was built around LeBron and he would ultimately be left with those pieces
   interpretation: Somewhat fair, though he's not good enough for a championship team to be built around his strengths

Related to the above, Kyrie threatened surgery if he was not traded
   interpretation: Immature, lack of professionalism

The flat earth drama really bothered Kyrie -- he was upset that this garnered so much attention instead of social/political issues (like LeBron received more attention for)
   interpretation: Immature, jealous.  If Kyrie wanted to make statements about social/political issues, he should have done just that -- instead, he took an indirect approach (if he's being honest) that was more driven by more attention-seeking behavior.

Kyrie did not talk to any of his teammates between the Indiana and Toronto series, not even during practices
   interpretation: Immature, narcissist, doesn't get along well with others

-----

In a nutshell, Kyrie is a jerk with all sorts of issues and a very warped perception of how special he is.   

For some reason, Celtics fans refuse to acknowledge this.  Yet I'm positive that when he does cross a line with fans (e.g., abandon the team; bash his teammates or the organization, etc), many will suddenly become upset as if they didn't expect it.  But please remember: The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

When this day comes, I promise not to say "I told you so."  I'd rather you just consider the importance of character in team-building.
Man I'd love to be a politician with you as a voter. Lap up the 2+2=5

To pick just one of your examples. Kyrie did not object to Lue saying put your brand aside, he objected to LeBron getting to continue his when others simply had to fall in line. The point is that an environment with LeBron is one where you cannot express your individuality. That's fine for some, not fine for others.

Offline footey

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7865
  • Tommy Points: 960
I feel about as validated as possible regarding all things Kyrie to this point.  I understand it's not good for the organization (hence why I care), but it always feels good to be right, right?

Here is a recap for the time-limited reader:


Kyrie never made strong relationships within the Cavs.  This was not due to LeBron's arrival, as it was the case before and after.
   interpretation: Kyrie does not get along well with others, lacks professionalism

Kyrie did not like Mike Brown because another player under his agent did not like Mike Brown.
   interpretation: Kyrie does not form his own opinions of others. 

Cavs seriously considered drafting Waiters ahead of Kyrie.
   interpretation: Waiters was considered flawed because of his attitude and lack of a natural position, so perhaps Kyrie was seen as flawed or overly concerning due to injury history.

Kyrie did not like Lue because Lue encouraged players to 'put their brands aside' for the sake of winning.
   interpretation: Prioritizes his brand (selfish, narcissist), can't get along with others

Lue stated that Kyrie treated him like a stranger since day 1 and he was 'impossible to get through to'
   interpretation: Narcissist, can't get along with others.

Kyrie did not appreciate LeBron directing questions towards him
   interpretation: Narcissist, can't get along with others

Kyrie was upset because a reporter approached him about LeBron's 3 point shot
   interpretation: Narcissist, which goes hand-in-hand with jealousy and deep insecurity

Kyrie was upset because LeBron got credit for "I can't breathe shirts" but Kyrie wore them first!
   interpretation: Immature narcissist

Kyrie wanted out of CLE last year in large part because the team was built around LeBron and he would ultimately be left with those pieces
   interpretation: Somewhat fair, though he's not good enough for a championship team to be built around his strengths

Related to the above, Kyrie threatened surgery if he was not traded
   interpretation: Immature, lack of professionalism

The flat earth drama really bothered Kyrie -- he was upset that this garnered so much attention instead of social/political issues (like LeBron received more attention for)
   interpretation: Immature, jealous.  If Kyrie wanted to make statements about social/political issues, he should have done just that -- instead, he took an indirect approach (if he's being honest) that was more driven by more attention-seeking behavior.

Kyrie did not talk to any of his teammates between the Indiana and Toronto series, not even during practices
   interpretation: Immature, narcissist, doesn't get along well with others

-----

In a nutshell, Kyrie is a jerk with all sorts of issues and a very warped perception of how special he is.   

For some reason, Celtics fans refuse to acknowledge this.  Yet I'm positive that when he does cross a line with fans (e.g., abandon the team; bash his teammates or the organization, etc), many will suddenly become upset as if they didn't expect it.  But please remember: The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

When this day comes, I promise not to say "I told you so."  I'd rather you just consider the importance of character in team-building.

TP Monkhouse for posting this. Very interesting. I remain astounded by how much these "journalists" withold information that would damage their relationships with players, but that topic was beaten to death earlier.

Tarheel, if in fact those personality issues concerning Kyrie were still prevalent (most of all, not getting along with team-mates), then wouldn't Ainge have already traded him by now, especially given the opportunity to do so with Kawhi?   I have to trust coach and management to know what Kyrie's influence on the Celtics locker room is, and all reports have been positive.

Furthermore,he comes across as extremely generous and supportive of his Celtic teammates, both before and after his injury. And whenever he is interviewed, and asked what it is like to be the leader of this new team, he goes out of his way to say that it is a collaborative formula, not one of leaders and followers. He seems very uncomfortable with that title.  I think he is trying his best to be anti-Lebron in that respect, because he found it demeaning to the other guys who bust their butts.  Could be a front, but I will believe what he says until proven otherwise.

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17155
  • Tommy Points: 1547
This is interesting, thanks for posting this.

My impression of Kyrie is:

(1) He wants to be treated like a superstar, franchise player.  Justifiably, I think.  He didn't like being a supporting player in the epic opera of LeBron.

(2) He wants to be in an environment where the basketball comes first and foremost and people are focused primarily on playing the game instead of optics, drama, politics etc.  The Cavs -- and really any team with LeBron -- could not provide that kind of environment.


Obviously we'd love to have a star who is agreeable and friendly and a great teammate always no matter what.  We'd love every player to be Tim Duncan or Al Horford.  But that's not real life.

Kyrie is a top 10 player in his prime.  He's super entertaining and one of the hardest guys to guard in the league.  Any team with Kyrie should want to keep him happy and make him feel like a top priority. 

Yeah he's a little bit weird and presents as surly or introverted, but I can't blame him for that.  Maybe it's because I have a feeling people perceive me the same way sometimes.  Sometimes you just want to focus on doing your work and not deal with the BS of having to put on the right face to please people.  You want to be judged on the quality of your work not the face you put on it, so long as you're not being a jerk.  I can identify with that.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4644
  • Tommy Points: 445
Sorry, missed this when it was first posted.

The whole thing is pretty interesting. They'e supposed to be talking about Lebron and wind up talking more about Kyrie.

For me, it made me feel for Kyrie. He never wanted Lebron to come back to Cleveland and never liked playing with him, and had problems with the organization and he still went out and played hard every night and won a championship no one knew the extent to which he disliked Lebron until after he was gone. That sounds like professionalism, to me.

Can you blame him for not liking the way the Cavs handle their business? Or for not liking being part of the Lebron Show? Or for not thinking highly of Tyron Lue as a coach? That all sounds pretty reasonable to me.
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1984, 1986, 2008, 2019

Offline timpiker

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1270
  • Tommy Points: 81
I don't see an issue with how Kyrie reacted to the LeBUM dramas at all.  Perfectly reasonable to me and I'm surprised he put up with it as long as he did.  LeBUM is a bum of a teammate.  Any person with any pride would hate being around that piece of crap as a human being.