Author Topic: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings  (Read 14896 times)

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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #300 on: September 15, 2018, 10:16:58 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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In what way is Ginsburg brilliant?  She's just an activist.

She graduated first in her class at Columbia Law, was on law review at both Columbia and Harvard, was the top female in her graduating class at Cornell.

Sheís an activist, icon and celebrity, but sheís absolutely brilliant. 


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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #301 on: September 15, 2018, 10:28:15 AM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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If the allegations could be proven true, I think that the current climate around this behavior (even though as 17 year old), along with the politics that drive today's decision-making, would put an end to Kavanaugh's confirmation chances. But the accusers credibility should be at issue, and given the circumstances, if there is no corroborating evidence, I think he should be given benefit of the doubt. 

Makes me think though, that a short while ago (a little more than 15 years ago), a very credible witness, Anita Hill, testified openly in front of the US Senate that Clarence Thomas engaged in some pretty disturbing sexual harrassment.  Today, it's still very difficult for me to believe that she made it all up.   Yet, just 17 years ago, the US Senate either didn't believe her or didn't think Thomas' actions were disqualifying.   I don't think there is even a remote chance that Thomas would be confirmed if the same situation occurred today.
That was just a racist railroading. The left didn't want to have a conservative black on the court and they've treated him like trash ever since. They didn't like his politics. They didn't like his interracial marriage, they didn't like that he didn't feel he owed them for affirmative action, and they don't like that he's an incredible judge.

Anita Hill seems quite credible to me today ó and seemed credible back then. You might know something the rest of us donít, but I doubt it.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #302 on: September 15, 2018, 10:57:32 AM »

Offline eja117

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If the allegations could be proven true, I think that the current climate around this behavior (even though as 17 year old), along with the politics that drive today's decision-making, would put an end to Kavanaugh's confirmation chances. But the accusers credibility should be at issue, and given the circumstances, if there is no corroborating evidence, I think he should be given benefit of the doubt. 

Makes me think though, that a short while ago (a little more than 15 years ago), a very credible witness, Anita Hill, testified openly in front of the US Senate that Clarence Thomas engaged in some pretty disturbing sexual harrassment.  Today, it's still very difficult for me to believe that she made it all up.   Yet, just 17 years ago, the US Senate either didn't believe her or didn't think Thomas' actions were disqualifying.   I don't think there is even a remote chance that Thomas would be confirmed if the same situation occurred today.
That was just a racist railroading. The left didn't want to have a conservative black on the court and they've treated him like trash ever since. They didn't like his politics. They didn't like his interracial marriage, they didn't like that he didn't feel he owed them for affirmative action, and they don't like that he's an incredible judge.

Anita Hill seems quite credible to me today ó and seemed credible back then. You might know something the rest of us donít, but I doubt it.
Why didn't Nancy Altman seem credible? Why did Hill follow him to a second job and why did she go out with him and call him on several occasions after they no longer worked together?

It was just a railroad job. They needed to railroad him so they dug up some mediocre employees that didn't get the advancements and dates they wanted and that were upset he married a white woman and they railroaded him.

Now it's Kavanaugh's turn.  The public railroading didn't work last time so this time it's secret allegations by secret accusers going to secret investigators to look at the secret.

Then the left will be in total shock when they lose elections and blame it on gerrymandering or whatever the excuse du jour is.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #303 on: September 16, 2018, 04:47:21 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Kavanaughís accuser came forward.  The big question is what to do about the vote.

Iíd be inclined to postpone it, and to re-open the hearing for additional testimony. Itís not ideal, but both the accuser and Kavanaugh should be put under oath, along with the other boy who was in the room and the other two boys who were allegedly in the house.

Thatís unlikely to be what happens, but I think thereís at least enough indicia of credibility there to warrant further explanation.


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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #304 on: September 16, 2018, 04:55:49 PM »

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Kavanaughís accuser came forward.  The big question is what to do about the vote.

Iíd be inclined to postpone it, and to re-open the hearing for additional testimony. Itís not ideal, but both the accuser and Kavanaugh should be put under oath, along with the other boy who was in the room and the other two boys who were allegedly in the house.

Thatís unlikely to be what happens, but I think thereís at least enough indicia of credibility there to warrant further explanation.
I have no faith in the Republican Senate leadership to even think about postponing anything. They need Kavanaugh approved because if he isn't there might not be enough time to get someone else approved before the Dems take over the Senate, that is, if they do in the midterms. And if the Dems take control of the Senate, you can believe they won't let any ultra Conservative through to the SC.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #305 on: September 16, 2018, 05:27:56 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Kavanaughís accuser came forward.  The big question is what to do about the vote.

Iíd be inclined to postpone it, and to re-open the hearing for additional testimony. Itís not ideal, but both the accuser and Kavanaugh should be put under oath, along with the other boy who was in the room and the other two boys who were allegedly in the house.

Thatís unlikely to be what happens, but I think thereís at least enough indicia of credibility there to warrant further explanation.
just out of curiosity, what changed your mind from treating this as a trivial matter just a page ago to now considering postponing it and giving this a legit airing prior to a vote?  not being a smartass - just genuinely curious what occurred to change your position on this.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #306 on: September 16, 2018, 05:52:46 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Kavanaughís accuser came forward.  The big question is what to do about the vote.

Iíd be inclined to postpone it, and to re-open the hearing for additional testimony. Itís not ideal, but both the accuser and Kavanaugh should be put under oath, along with the other boy who was in the room and the other two boys who were allegedly in the house.

Thatís unlikely to be what happens, but I think thereís at least enough indicia of credibility there to warrant further explanation.
just out of curiosity, what changed your mind from treating this as a trivial matter just a page ago to now considering postponing it and giving this a legit airing prior to a vote?  not being a smartass - just genuinely curious what occurred to change your position on this.

1. At first appearances, the accuser doesnít seem to be a crazy. Yes, sheís a California Democrat, but she seems to be a serious academic, and nobody has found any wild rhetoric yet;

2. She described a similar account in 2012 to her therapist, which is backed up by her therapistís notes;

3. She passed a lie detector test (albeit one set up by her attorney).

Now, my instinct is that this event has been exaggerated or misinterpreted. Some of it seems incongruent: an attempted rape that made the woman fear for her life while the third person in the room repeatedly jumped on the two. It comes across more like goofing off from the third party (Mark Judge) than somebody aiding in a rape. But, who knows? Thereís plenty of room for cross-examination, and 35 year old memories can be wildly inaccurate, but the questions should at least be asked and answered.


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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #307 on: September 16, 2018, 07:14:03 PM »

Offline eja117

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The questions are why didn't Feinstein say anything when she got the letter in July and why she didn't inform her own party about the accusations or ask Kavanaugh about them when she met with him prior to the initial hearings, and why she didn't mention them or the issue during the smaller committee hearing.


Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #308 on: September 16, 2018, 07:18:24 PM »

Offline blink

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Here is the article from the Washington Post where Christine Blasey Ford the previously unidentified woman tells a bit of her story. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/california-professor-writer-of-confidential-brett-kavanaugh-letter-speaks-out-about-her-allegation-of-sexual-assault/2018/09/16/46982194-b846-11e8-94eb-3bd52dfe917b_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ce7c79587a67

The article states that she made mention of the events to a therapist in 2012.  She also states that she knew that she would branded as a liar and that she was very concerned about the negative publicity impacting her family if she came forward.  She took a lie detector test administered by an ex-FBI agent.  It appears that she had a change of heart after sending her story in a tip to the Washington post.  She decided that it was going to be too difficult on her family and thought it wouldn't stop Kavanaugh from being confirmed either way.   Then her story leaked anyways, and it was then that she decided to come forward. 

From the article, this person appears credible to me.  She knew the lay of the land politically, before she even spoke up.  But just like everything else, it is his word against hers.  The other guy involved refused to comment today after she came forward. 

Unfortunately you could have 10 Christine Ford's come forward and the republicans would still confirm Kavanaugh.  It didn't bother any of them when they nominated Trump, it won't matter now.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #309 on: September 16, 2018, 07:19:37 PM »

Offline blink

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The questions are why didn't Feinstein say anything when she got the letter in July and why she didn't inform her own party about the accusations or ask Kavanaugh about them when she met with him prior to the initial hearings, and why she didn't mention them or the issue during the smaller committee hearing.

Read the article in the Washington Post.  It says that Ford changed her mind on coming forward but that her story got leaked anyways.  I bet that was part of Feinstien's hesitance with the whole thing.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #310 on: September 16, 2018, 07:23:49 PM »

Offline eja117

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The questions are why didn't Feinstein say anything when she got the letter in July and why she didn't inform her own party about the accusations or ask Kavanaugh about them when she met with him prior to the initial hearings, and why she didn't mention them or the issue during the smaller committee hearing.

Read the article in the Washington Post.  It says that Ford changed her mind on coming forward but that her story got leaked anyways.  I bet that was part of Feinstien's hesitance with the whole thing.
I find that somewhat remarkable too. Feinstein was apparently concerned for the accuser who wanted all this anonymity. Then all of a sudden things were being leaked at the speed of light at just the wrong time and suddenly the accuser is changing her mind. Almost like it's right on cue or something.  I mean you couldn't really do it better, could you?

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #311 on: September 16, 2018, 07:24:03 PM »

Offline blink

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Sounds like Jeff Flake is saying that he is 'not comfortable voting yes' until he learns more about the sexual assault allegation.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/16/kavanaugh-allegation-anonymous-republicans-825855

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #312 on: September 16, 2018, 07:27:29 PM »

Offline blink

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The questions are why didn't Feinstein say anything when she got the letter in July and why she didn't inform her own party about the accusations or ask Kavanaugh about them when she met with him prior to the initial hearings, and why she didn't mention them or the issue during the smaller committee hearing.

Read the article in the Washington Post.  It says that Ford changed her mind on coming forward but that her story got leaked anyways.  I bet that was part of Feinstien's hesitance with the whole thing.
I find that somewhat remarkable too. Feinstein was apparently concerned for the accuser who wanted all this anonymity. Then all of a sudden things were being leaked at the speed of light at just the wrong time and suddenly the accuser is changing her mind. Almost like it's right on cue or something.  I mean you couldn't really do it better, could you?

It wasn't Christine Ford that leaked the information.  She originally decided not to come forward, but now that lots of people are misrepresenting her story she felt like she needed to. 

The timing of the leak doesn't determine the truth of her allegations.

Yeah politics is dirty, things get leaked, and sometimes the Senate stonewalls and won't even take a vote for over a year on a Presidential nominee for the SC.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #313 on: September 16, 2018, 07:45:34 PM »

Offline eja117

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Here is the article from the Washington Post where Christine Blasey Ford the previously unidentified woman tells a bit of her story. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/california-professor-writer-of-confidential-brett-kavanaugh-letter-speaks-out-about-her-allegation-of-sexual-assault/2018/09/16/46982194-b846-11e8-94eb-3bd52dfe917b_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ce7c79587a67

The article states that she made mention of the events to a therapist in 2012.  She also states that she knew that she would branded as a liar and that she was very concerned about the negative publicity impacting her family if she came forward.  She took a lie detector test administered by an ex-FBI agent.  It appears that she had a change of heart after sending her story in a tip to the Washington post.  She decided that it was going to be too difficult on her family and thought it wouldn't stop Kavanaugh from being confirmed either way.   Then her story leaked anyways, and it was then that she decided to come forward. 

From the article, this person appears credible to me.  She knew the lay of the land politically, before she even spoke up.  But just like everything else, it is his word against hers.  The other guy involved refused to comment today after she came forward. 

Unfortunately you could have 10 Christine Ford's come forward and the republicans would still confirm Kavanaugh.  It didn't bother any of them when they nominated Trump, it won't matter now.
But we don't have 10 Ford's coming forward. We have the friend that supposedly jumped on the bed saying nothing like that ever happened (in the article) before her name was known and we have 65 other women coming forward to say they knew him then and that he always treated women well. We also have discrepancies in the therapists notes about numbers of boys and she doesn't know whose house this was or how she got there. And she didn't tell anyone about this till 2012. In your article she also said she recalled thinking ďIím not ever telling anyone this. This is nothing, it didnít happen, and he didnít rape me.Ē   So she's testifying against herself.

And yes the timing doesn't make it a lie, but it also doesn't make it the truth.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #314 on: September 16, 2018, 08:15:17 PM »

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Here is the article from the Washington Post where Christine Blasey Ford the previously unidentified woman tells a bit of her story. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/california-professor-writer-of-confidential-brett-kavanaugh-letter-speaks-out-about-her-allegation-of-sexual-assault/2018/09/16/46982194-b846-11e8-94eb-3bd52dfe917b_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ce7c79587a67

The article states that she made mention of the events to a therapist in 2012.  She also states that she knew that she would branded as a liar and that she was very concerned about the negative publicity impacting her family if she came forward.  She took a lie detector test administered by an ex-FBI agent.  It appears that she had a change of heart after sending her story in a tip to the Washington post.  She decided that it was going to be too difficult on her family and thought it wouldn't stop Kavanaugh from being confirmed either way.   Then her story leaked anyways, and it was then that she decided to come forward. 

From the article, this person appears credible to me.  She knew the lay of the land politically, before she even spoke up.  But just like everything else, it is his word against hers.  The other guy involved refused to comment today after she came forward. 

Unfortunately you could have 10 Christine Ford's come forward and the republicans would still confirm Kavanaugh.  It didn't bother any of them when they nominated Trump, it won't matter now.
Pretty much. I think this lady is extremely credible. 6 years ago she told a therapist this. That gives her very good credence. It just isn't going to make a difference. McConnell, the little weasel, will make sure he gets pushed through.