Author Topic: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings  (Read 13993 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #285 on: September 14, 2018, 09:57:33 AM »

Online Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19547
  • Tommy Points: 927
https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/1040329102945935360

the letter is said to describe sexual misconduct by Kavanaugh when he was in high school

he fits right in with Trump.

Yeah, when he was 17 he probably put his hand on a dateís leg without getting written permission.

#MeToo

a) Are you trying to be funny?
b) Do you honestly believe that Feinstein would refer the letter to the FBI if it described anything like what you just described?

I think this nonsense is:

a) predictable; and
b) fictional

It certainly could be fictional.  But you really have zero basis to assert that it is.   How about letting the FBI vet it?  If it's nothing, it's nothing. 

Your initial comment though, didn't suggest that it was fictional.  You specifically offered an example that would be trivial, but non-fictional.  And associated that with "#metoo".    The former seemed like a pretty blatant attempt to trivialize something before we even know what it is and the latter is an attempt to attache a label (with an implication of scorn?).

The FBI vetted it, in a matter of hours. Itís nothing.

And yes, Iím completely trivializing this dirty innuendo-based, hearsay-based smear.
They didn't vet it at all.  They said this is a local matter and updated their background review package to include the letter.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #286 on: September 14, 2018, 10:01:07 AM »

Offline mmmmm

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3457
  • Tommy Points: 581
You can talk about Dem tactics, but none of it comes close to McConnell breaking the law by not give Garland a hearing.

Which law?

I suspect he's talking about this one:

Quote
and [the President] shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

I guess this comes down to whether you believe that the advice and consent of "the Senate" was legally represented and executed by the decisions of just the one man, the Senate Majority Leader.

Your an 'originalist', right Roy?  Can the decisions of just the Majority Leader be construed as the will of the entire Senate?  Do you think that was the "original intent" of that text?
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.
#OneCitizenOneVote - True Election Reform:  Eliminate the anti-democratic Electoral College farce now.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #287 on: September 14, 2018, 10:14:09 AM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 35971
  • Tommy Points: -27665
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
You can talk about Dem tactics, but none of it comes close to McConnell breaking the law by not give Garland a hearing.

Which law?

I suspect he's talking about this one:

Quote
and [the President] shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

I guess this comes down to whether you believe that the advice and consent of "the Senate" was legally represented and executed by the decisions of just the one man, the Senate Majority Leader.

Your an 'originalist', right Roy?  Can the decisions of just the Majority Leader be construed as the will of the entire Senate?  Do you think that was the "original intent" of that text?

While I would have given Garland a hearing and a vote, nothing puts a time limit on the process. Many, many judicial nominees were denied votes.  Kavanaugh himself waited three years for a vote on his Federal appointment, I believe. 

And McConnell had the support of his caucus, and seemingly of the American people, as they elected Trump to appoint a replacement Justice.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #288 on: September 14, 2018, 11:21:28 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18706
  • Tommy Points: 2087
  • Be the posts you wish to see in the world.
Here's Ronan Farrow's writeup on the sexual assault allegation against Kavanaugh and how it's being viewed:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/a-sexual-misconduct-allegation-against-the-supreme-court-nominee-brett-kavanaugh-stirs-tension-among-democrats-in-congress

Sounds like Feinstein was reluctant to do anything with the allegation and only forwarded it along without stating any specifics when other Dems on the committee pressured her.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 11:55:42 AM by fairweatherfan »

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #289 on: September 14, 2018, 12:37:05 PM »

Offline mmmmm

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3457
  • Tommy Points: 581
https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/1040329102945935360

the letter is said to describe sexual misconduct by Kavanaugh when he was in high school

he fits right in with Trump.

Yeah, when he was 17 he probably put his hand on a dateís leg without getting written permission.

#MeToo

a) Are you trying to be funny?
b) Do you honestly believe that Feinstein would refer the letter to the FBI if it described anything like what you just described?

I think this nonsense is:

a) predictable; and
b) fictional

It certainly could be fictional.  But you really have zero basis to assert that it is.   How about letting the FBI vet it?  If it's nothing, it's nothing. 

Your initial comment though, didn't suggest that it was fictional.  You specifically offered an example that would be trivial, but non-fictional.  And associated that with "#metoo".    The former seemed like a pretty blatant attempt to trivialize something before we even know what it is and the latter is an attempt to attache a label (with an implication of scorn?).

The FBI vetted it, in a matter of hours. Itís nothing.

And yes, Iím completely trivializing this dirty innuendo-based, hearsay-based smear.

a) Actually, all the FBI has done so far is to classify the event's jurisdiction as local and to add it to his file.

b) Okay, but let's be clear.  You tried to do so by asserting it was probably nothing more than him putting a hand on a date's leg.   And sarcastically invoked #metoo.   Now, the reports coming out are that the event, if true, was that, "during an encounter at a party, Kavanaugh held her down, and that he attempted to force himself on her. She claimed in the letter that Kavanaugh and a classmate of his, both of whom had been drinking, turned up music that was playing in the room to conceal the sound of her protests, and that Kavanaugh covered her mouth with his hand. " (https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/a-sexual-misconduct-allegation-against-the-supreme-court-nominee-brett-kavanaugh-stirs-tension-among-democrats-in-congress)

If this story is true, do you think that's "trivial" behavior?   That it is anything at all comparable to "putting a hand on a date's leg"?
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.
#OneCitizenOneVote - True Election Reform:  Eliminate the anti-democratic Electoral College farce now.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #290 on: September 14, 2018, 02:20:17 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 35971
  • Tommy Points: -27665
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/1040329102945935360

the letter is said to describe sexual misconduct by Kavanaugh when he was in high school

he fits right in with Trump.

Yeah, when he was 17 he probably put his hand on a dateís leg without getting written permission.

#MeToo

a) Are you trying to be funny?
b) Do you honestly believe that Feinstein would refer the letter to the FBI if it described anything like what you just described?

I think this nonsense is:

a) predictable; and
b) fictional

It certainly could be fictional.  But you really have zero basis to assert that it is.   How about letting the FBI vet it?  If it's nothing, it's nothing. 

Your initial comment though, didn't suggest that it was fictional.  You specifically offered an example that would be trivial, but non-fictional.  And associated that with "#metoo".    The former seemed like a pretty blatant attempt to trivialize something before we even know what it is and the latter is an attempt to attache a label (with an implication of scorn?).

The FBI vetted it, in a matter of hours. Itís nothing.

And yes, Iím completely trivializing this dirty innuendo-based, hearsay-based smear.

a) Actually, all the FBI has done so far is to classify the event's jurisdiction as local and to add it to his file.

b) Okay, but let's be clear.  You tried to do so by asserting it was probably nothing more than him putting a hand on a date's leg.   And sarcastically invoked #metoo.   Now, the reports coming out are that the event, if true, was that, "during an encounter at a party, Kavanaugh held her down, and that he attempted to force himself on her. She claimed in the letter that Kavanaugh and a classmate of his, both of whom had been drinking, turned up music that was playing in the room to conceal the sound of her protests, and that Kavanaugh covered her mouth with his hand. " (https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/a-sexual-misconduct-allegation-against-the-supreme-court-nominee-brett-kavanaugh-stirs-tension-among-democrats-in-congress)

If this story is true, do you think that's "trivial" behavior?   That it is anything at all comparable to "putting a hand on a date's leg"?

I think thatís ďdidnít happenĒ behavior.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #291 on: September 14, 2018, 08:05:47 PM »

Offline jpotter33

  • Bob Cousy
  • **************************
  • Posts: 26967
  • Tommy Points: 93
Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, by whatever name it may be called and whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #292 on: September 14, 2018, 08:15:12 PM »

Offline Cman

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12661
  • Tommy Points: 88
Here's Ronan Farrow's writeup on the sexual assault allegation against Kavanaugh and how it's being viewed:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/a-sexual-misconduct-allegation-against-the-supreme-court-nominee-brett-kavanaugh-stirs-tension-among-democrats-in-congress

Sounds like Feinstein was reluctant to do anything with the allegation and only forwarded it along without stating any specifics when other Dems on the committee pressured her.

Judging by how quickly Rs produced a letter with dozens of women from Kavanaugh past, Iíd say Rs knew of it well in advance and (smartly and strategically) took precautions.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #293 on: September 14, 2018, 09:07:51 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12877
  • Tommy Points: 1470
If the allegations could be proven true, I think that the current climate around this behavior (even though as 17 year old), along with the politics that drive today's decision-making, would put an end to Kavanaugh's confirmation chances. But the accusers credibility should be at issue, and given the circumstances, if there is no corroborating evidence, I think he should be given benefit of the doubt. 

Makes me think though, that a short while ago (a little more than 15 years ago), a very credible witness, Anita Hill, testified openly in front of the US Senate that Clarence Thomas engaged in some pretty disturbing sexual harrassment.  Today, it's still very difficult for me to believe that she made it all up.   Yet, just 17 years ago, the US Senate either didn't believe her or didn't think Thomas' actions were disqualifying.   I don't think there is even a remote chance that Thomas would be confirmed if the same situation occurred today.   



Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #294 on: September 14, 2018, 09:34:06 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 35971
  • Tommy Points: -27665
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
If the allegations could be proven true, I think that the current climate around this behavior (even though as 17 year old), along with the politics that drive today's decision-making, would put an end to Kavanaugh's confirmation chances. But the accusers credibility should be at issue, and given the circumstances, if there is no corroborating evidence, I think he should be given benefit of the doubt. 

Makes me think though, that a short while ago (a little more than 15 years ago), a very credible witness, Anita Hill, testified openly in front of the US Senate that Clarence Thomas engaged in some pretty disturbing sexual harrassment.  Today, it's still very difficult for me to believe that she made it all up.   Yet, just 17 years ago, the US Senate either didn't believe her or didn't think Thomas' actions were disqualifying.   I don't think there is even a remote chance that Thomas would be confirmed if the same situation occurred today.

27 years ago, but yeah.

Even more recently, we had a President who won re-election despite a pending sexual harassment lawsuit. 2016 was the ultimate: a serial harasser vs. the wife of a serial harasser and probable rapist who did everything in her power to discredit her husbandís accusers.

So, thereís hopefully a different climate, but we need to look back years rather than decades.



Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #295 on: September 14, 2018, 10:12:25 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12877
  • Tommy Points: 1470
If the allegations could be proven true, I think that the current climate around this behavior (even though as 17 year old), along with the politics that drive today's decision-making, would put an end to Kavanaugh's confirmation chances. But the accusers credibility should be at issue, and given the circumstances, if there is no corroborating evidence, I think he should be given benefit of the doubt. 

Makes me think though, that a short while ago (a little more than 15 years ago), a very credible witness, Anita Hill, testified openly in front of the US Senate that Clarence Thomas engaged in some pretty disturbing sexual harrassment.  Today, it's still very difficult for me to believe that she made it all up.   Yet, just 17 years ago, the US Senate either didn't believe her or didn't think Thomas' actions were disqualifying.   I don't think there is even a remote chance that Thomas would be confirmed if the same situation occurred today.

27 years ago, but yeah.

Even more recently, we had a President who won re-election despite a pending sexual harassment lawsuit. 2016 was the ultimate: a serial harasser vs. the wife of a serial harasser and probable rapist who did everything in her power to discredit her husbandís accusers.

So, thereís hopefully a different climate, but we need to look back years rather than decades.

Holy crap!! I miscalculated from 1991.  I remember clear as day driving with my wife to my in-laws in Rochester, NY, listening for 7 hours to her testimony live on the radio.  It was riveting.  But 27 years ó geesh does time fly.  Clarence Thomas has been on the SCOTUS for 27 years.  Hard to believe.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #296 on: September 14, 2018, 10:40:28 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 35971
  • Tommy Points: -27665
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Here's Ronan Farrow's writeup on the sexual assault allegation against Kavanaugh and how it's being viewed:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/a-sexual-misconduct-allegation-against-the-supreme-court-nominee-brett-kavanaugh-stirs-tension-among-democrats-in-congress

Sounds like Feinstein was reluctant to do anything with the allegation and only forwarded it along without stating any specifics when other Dems on the committee pressured her.

Judging by how quickly Rs produced a letter with dozens of women from Kavanaugh past, Iíd say Rs knew of it well in advance and (smartly and strategically) took precautions.

Apparently not that far in advance:

Quote
The White House first heard vague rumors late last week about the allegation against Kavanaugh, which was referred to the FBI late Wednesday by Feinstein, the Judiciary panel's top Democrat. But the specifics of the alleged high-school sexual assault didn't land on White House Counsel Don McGahn's desk until mid-day Thursday, a White House aide said.

McGahn received the letter from the FBI around noon and immediately passed it to Capitol Hill, according to the aide. Kavanaugh and a network of clerks and former clerks who have been working with him during the confirmation process immediately lurched into action, contacting more than five dozen women who have known the judge since high school to sign the letter attesting to his character.

That effort culminated in a missive released by Grassley on Friday, signed by 65 women who knew Kavanaugh during his high school years, defending him as "a good person."


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #297 on: September 15, 2018, 07:58:37 AM »

Offline eja117

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19146
  • Tommy Points: 1249
If the allegations could be proven true, I think that the current climate around this behavior (even though as 17 year old), along with the politics that drive today's decision-making, would put an end to Kavanaugh's confirmation chances. But the accusers credibility should be at issue, and given the circumstances, if there is no corroborating evidence, I think he should be given benefit of the doubt. 

Makes me think though, that a short while ago (a little more than 15 years ago), a very credible witness, Anita Hill, testified openly in front of the US Senate that Clarence Thomas engaged in some pretty disturbing sexual harrassment.  Today, it's still very difficult for me to believe that she made it all up.   Yet, just 17 years ago, the US Senate either didn't believe her or didn't think Thomas' actions were disqualifying.   I don't think there is even a remote chance that Thomas would be confirmed if the same situation occurred today.
That was just a racist railroading. The left didn't want to have a conservative black on the court and they've treated him like trash ever since. They didn't like his politics. They didn't like his interracial marriage, they didn't like that he didn't feel he owed them for affirmative action, and they don't like that he's an incredible judge.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #298 on: September 15, 2018, 09:21:28 AM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 35971
  • Tommy Points: -27665
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
If the allegations could be proven true, I think that the current climate around this behavior (even though as 17 year old), along with the politics that drive today's decision-making, would put an end to Kavanaugh's confirmation chances. But the accusers credibility should be at issue, and given the circumstances, if there is no corroborating evidence, I think he should be given benefit of the doubt. 

Makes me think though, that a short while ago (a little more than 15 years ago), a very credible witness, Anita Hill, testified openly in front of the US Senate that Clarence Thomas engaged in some pretty disturbing sexual harrassment.  Today, it's still very difficult for me to believe that she made it all up.   Yet, just 17 years ago, the US Senate either didn't believe her or didn't think Thomas' actions were disqualifying.   I don't think there is even a remote chance that Thomas would be confirmed if the same situation occurred today.
That was just a racist railroading. The left didn't want to have a conservative black on the court and they've treated him like trash ever since. They didn't like his politics. They didn't like his interracial marriage, they didn't like that he didn't feel he owed them for affirmative action, and they don't like that he's an incredible judge.

I like Thomasí decisions, and I agree that he gets too much grief.  Heís not exceptionally brilliant like Scalia, Roberts, Ginsburg or Breyer, but neither were / are Souter, Sotomayor, Kagan, Kennedy, OíConnor, etc.

Thereís a divide between the intellectual heavyweights and a highly intelligent, qualified Justice. Thomas is in the second category, but he seems to be the only one who is routinely criticized for this.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Reply #299 on: September 15, 2018, 09:52:05 AM »

Offline eja117

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19146
  • Tommy Points: 1249
If the allegations could be proven true, I think that the current climate around this behavior (even though as 17 year old), along with the politics that drive today's decision-making, would put an end to Kavanaugh's confirmation chances. But the accusers credibility should be at issue, and given the circumstances, if there is no corroborating evidence, I think he should be given benefit of the doubt. 

Makes me think though, that a short while ago (a little more than 15 years ago), a very credible witness, Anita Hill, testified openly in front of the US Senate that Clarence Thomas engaged in some pretty disturbing sexual harrassment.  Today, it's still very difficult for me to believe that she made it all up.   Yet, just 17 years ago, the US Senate either didn't believe her or didn't think Thomas' actions were disqualifying.   I don't think there is even a remote chance that Thomas would be confirmed if the same situation occurred today.
That was just a racist railroading. The left didn't want to have a conservative black on the court and they've treated him like trash ever since. They didn't like his politics. They didn't like his interracial marriage, they didn't like that he didn't feel he owed them for affirmative action, and they don't like that he's an incredible judge.

I like Thomasí decisions, and I agree that he gets too much grief.  Heís not exceptionally brilliant like Scalia, Roberts, Ginsburg or Breyer, but neither were / are Souter, Sotomayor, Kagan, Kennedy, OíConnor, etc.

Thereís a divide between the intellectual heavyweights and a highly intelligent, qualified Justice. Thomas is in the second category, but he seems to be the only one who is routinely criticized for this.
In what way is Ginsburg brilliant?  She's just an activist.

The issue for Thomas is that he's not a diva. He didn't speak for almost a decade. If he's not brilliant he's at least someone not to mess with.  Like the time a college invited him to be the commencement speaker at a graduation, then disinvited him, then reinvented him so he went and gave a two hour speech on manners.

Or the time he said he refused to have his views assigned to him like an intellectual slave.

His jab at Cory Booker the other day was kinda funny and that's why had to try to fabricate stuff to try to keep him out. They knew over the years he'd be a challenge to their identity politics and he is.