Author Topic: Marcus vs Avery  (Read 8149 times)

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Re: Marcus vs Avery
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2018, 05:13:21 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Clearly, we value Marcus Smart more than we would value Avery Bradley. 

However, if we could sign Avery at $5 million a year or less ... and Marcus Smart would cost $15 million per year, would Avery be the better bet this summer?

I don't think anyone is giving Smart over $14, and I don't think we can sign Avery for $5 million or less, so I feel like you're speaking in severe hypotheticals. But sure, for the price I'll take Avery back, but I still take a reasonably priced Smart over Bradley. AB is too injury prone to rely on him consistently anymore.

Odd fact:   Over the last 4 seasons, the number of regular season games each has played is very close.

Avery:  254
Marcus:  261

Not a huge difference.  All of it was from this last season, when Marcus played 54 games while Avery played only 46.   

Ironically, at one point, mid season they were almost tied.  Marcus got sidelined after playing 46 games as of schedule game 48.   Avery got shut down after his 46th game as of schedule game 55 (not long after he was traded to LAC).   At that point, Avery had played 1 more game over the prior 3 1/2 seasons than Marcus.   

Then, Marcus came back and played 8 games at the end of Feb/start of Mar before shutting down for the rest of he way.   That put him up by 7 over Avery for the 4 season period.

I guess my point would be that it's hard to say Marcus is all that much less "injury prone" than Avery.  If one is injury prone, then so is the other.
Avery avoids contact like the plague, stays out of the fray as much as possible, is a near worthless help defender, can't switch onto bigger players effectively, doesn't dive on the floor and plays like self preservation is his main goal and still gets hurt.  Marcus plays without regard for his own safety, lays his body on the line at all times, raises the level of everyone around him and is extremely effective.  There is no comparison as to their injury proneness nor their on court impact.
Bradley doesn't punch pictures on the wall that have glass frames either.

Re: Marcus vs Avery
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2018, 05:29:08 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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Clearly, we value Marcus Smart more than we would value Avery Bradley. 

However, if we could sign Avery at $5 million a year or less ... and Marcus Smart would cost $15 million per year, would Avery be the better bet this summer?

I don't think anyone is giving Smart over $14, and I don't think we can sign Avery for $5 million or less, so I feel like you're speaking in severe hypotheticals. But sure, for the price I'll take Avery back, but I still take a reasonably priced Smart over Bradley. AB is too injury prone to rely on him consistently anymore.

Odd fact:   Over the last 4 seasons, the number of regular season games each has played is very close.

Avery:  254
Marcus:  261

Not a huge difference.  All of it was from this last season, when Marcus played 54 games while Avery played only 46.   

Ironically, at one point, mid season they were almost tied.  Marcus got sidelined after playing 46 games as of schedule game 48.   Avery got shut down after his 46th game as of schedule game 55 (not long after he was traded to LAC).   At that point, Avery had played 1 more game over the prior 3 1/2 seasons than Marcus.   

Then, Marcus came back and played 8 games at the end of Feb/start of Mar before shutting down for the rest of he way.   That put him up by 7 over Avery for the 4 season period.

I guess my point would be that it's hard to say Marcus is all that much less "injury prone" than Avery.  If one is injury prone, then so is the other.
Avery avoids contact like the plague, stays out of the fray as much as possible, is a near worthless help defender, can't switch onto bigger players effectively, doesn't dive on the floor and plays like self preservation is his main goal and still gets hurt.  Marcus plays without regard for his own safety, lays his body on the line at all times, raises the level of everyone around him and is extremely effective.  There is no comparison as to their injury proneness nor their on court impact.
Bradley doesn't punch pictures on the wall that have glass frames either.
I will take a fiery competitor over a passive, undersized, injury prone guy with a very low BBIQ every single time without giving it a second thought.  Guys like Avery are being pushed out of the league in favor of larger, more switchable wings, he will be lucky to find a long term deal of any kind this summer.

Re: Marcus vs Avery
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2018, 05:38:47 PM »

Offline wiley

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Clearly, we value Marcus Smart more than we would value Avery Bradley. 

However, if we could sign Avery at $5 million a year or less ... and Marcus Smart would cost $15 million per year, would Avery be the better bet this summer?

I don't think anyone is giving Smart over $14, and I don't think we can sign Avery for $5 million or less, so I feel like you're speaking in severe hypotheticals. But sure, for the price I'll take Avery back, but I still take a reasonably priced Smart over Bradley. AB is too injury prone to rely on him consistently anymore.

Odd fact:   Over the last 4 seasons, the number of regular season games each has played is very close.

Avery:  254
Marcus:  261

Not a huge difference.  All of it was from this last season, when Marcus played 54 games while Avery played only 46.   

Ironically, at one point, mid season they were almost tied.  Marcus got sidelined after playing 46 games as of schedule game 48.   Avery got shut down after his 46th game as of schedule game 55 (not long after he was traded to LAC).   At that point, Avery had played 1 more game over the prior 3 1/2 seasons than Marcus.   

Then, Marcus came back and played 8 games at the end of Feb/start of Mar before shutting down for the rest of he way.   That put him up by 7 over Avery for the 4 season period.

I guess my point would be that it's hard to say Marcus is all that much less "injury prone" than Avery.  If one is injury prone, then so is the other.
Avery avoids contact like the plague, stays out of the fray as much as possible, is a near worthless help defender, can't switch onto bigger players effectively, doesn't dive on the floor and plays like self preservation is his main goal and still gets hurt.  Marcus plays without regard for his own safety, lays his body on the line at all times, raises the level of everyone around him and is extremely effective.  There is no comparison as to their injury proneness nor their on court impact.
Bradley doesn't punch pictures on the wall that have glass frames either.
I will take a fiery competitor over a passive, undersized, injury prone guy with a very low BBIQ every single time without giving it a second thought.  Guys like Avery are being pushed out of the league in favor of larger, more switchable wings, he will be lucky to find a long term deal of any kind this summer.

Both of you are being harsh.
1.  Avery Bradley is not passive.  Did you see his job in the playoffs on Jimmy Butler who is 4-5 inches taller and who knows how much heavier?  Ok he had a bad year this year...he's always done as best he can while being undersized.
2.  Yes, Smart has a temper, like thousands of other pro athletes...part of the fire that led him in frustration to punch something he shouldn't have (he was mad about his performance btw) is the same fire he uses to be one of the top Celtics all time in effort (he's got to be one of the top 5 or 10 Celtics all time in terms of leaving it all on the floor).

Re: Marcus vs Avery
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2018, 05:39:58 PM »

Offline hodgy03038

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Marcus all day every day. I really liked Avery but he is too small and can't guard bigger guys and was always hurt when you needed him. I would love to have him back but I think the cost would be too much and if I could only have one it's Marcus.

Re: Marcus vs Avery
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2018, 05:42:29 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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It's more than the 2" in height that Marcus has over AB...it's the almost 50 pounds of muscle and bulk.

Marcus can defend 1's 2's 3's and even smaller 4's. Avery can defend 1's and smaller 2's.

I'll pass on Avery.


Re: Marcus vs Avery
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2018, 06:01:46 PM »

Offline rondofan1255

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Marcus Smart all day.

Re: Marcus vs Avery
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2018, 06:18:35 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Clearly, we value Marcus Smart more than we would value Avery Bradley. 

However, if we could sign Avery at $5 million a year or less ... and Marcus Smart would cost $15 million per year, would Avery be the better bet this summer?

I don't think anyone is giving Smart over $14, and I don't think we can sign Avery for $5 million or less, so I feel like you're speaking in severe hypotheticals. But sure, for the price I'll take Avery back, but I still take a reasonably priced Smart over Bradley. AB is too injury prone to rely on him consistently anymore.

Odd fact:   Over the last 4 seasons, the number of regular season games each has played is very close.

Avery:  254
Marcus:  261

Not a huge difference.  All of it was from this last season, when Marcus played 54 games while Avery played only 46.   

Ironically, at one point, mid season they were almost tied.  Marcus got sidelined after playing 46 games as of schedule game 48.   Avery got shut down after his 46th game as of schedule game 55 (not long after he was traded to LAC).   At that point, Avery had played 1 more game over the prior 3 1/2 seasons than Marcus.   

Then, Marcus came back and played 8 games at the end of Feb/start of Mar before shutting down for the rest of he way.   That put him up by 7 over Avery for the 4 season period.

I guess my point would be that it's hard to say Marcus is all that much less "injury prone" than Avery.  If one is injury prone, then so is the other.
Avery avoids contact like the plague, stays out of the fray as much as possible, is a near worthless help defender, can't switch onto bigger players effectively, doesn't dive on the floor and plays like self preservation is his main goal and still gets hurt.  Marcus plays without regard for his own safety, lays his body on the line at all times, raises the level of everyone around him and is extremely effective.  There is no comparison as to their injury proneness nor their on court impact.

Eh, whether one gets injured due to speed-stressing one's joints or by diving on the floor, missed time is missed time.   You are just arguing over whose play style is more aesthetically appealing to you here.

As defensive players, neither player finds a ton of love from metrics that measure 'on court impact'.    I think most objective observers acknowledge they both have their strengths and weaknesses.
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Re: Marcus vs Avery
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2018, 06:25:54 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Clearly, we value Marcus Smart more than we would value Avery Bradley. 

However, if we could sign Avery at $5 million a year or less ... and Marcus Smart would cost $15 million per year, would Avery be the better bet this summer?

I don't think anyone is giving Smart over $14, and I don't think we can sign Avery for $5 million or less, so I feel like you're speaking in severe hypotheticals. But sure, for the price I'll take Avery back, but I still take a reasonably priced Smart over Bradley. AB is too injury prone to rely on him consistently anymore.

Odd fact:   Over the last 4 seasons, the number of regular season games each has played is very close.

Avery:  254
Marcus:  261

Not a huge difference.  All of it was from this last season, when Marcus played 54 games while Avery played only 46.   

Ironically, at one point, mid season they were almost tied.  Marcus got sidelined after playing 46 games as of schedule game 48.   Avery got shut down after his 46th game as of schedule game 55 (not long after he was traded to LAC).   At that point, Avery had played 1 more game over the prior 3 1/2 seasons than Marcus.   

Then, Marcus came back and played 8 games at the end of Feb/start of Mar before shutting down for the rest of he way.   That put him up by 7 over Avery for the 4 season period.

I guess my point would be that it's hard to say Marcus is all that much less "injury prone" than Avery.  If one is injury prone, then so is the other.

All valid points, but Smart plays a more physical game, I don't think Bradley plays the same way he used to. He can't switch, undersized, his lateral quickness isn't the same, and he plays too 'afraid.' No longer the hound dog perimeter defender that used to strike fear into the Jameer Nelson's of the world. And like I said, his defense has been extremely overrated by this board. You can't play defense like he does against taller defenders without potentiality of injuries.

Also his shoulder injuries have probably effected his shooting. Smart fits our defense better, and I think he's always been a better defender. Regardless, I doubt anyone is going to pay $15 million for Smart. That is a clear overpay for a role player. But hey, ET got an average salary of $17 million.

Again, as I said above in my other response.  Missed time is missed time.

Arguing that Avery's shoulder injuries have effected his shooting seems strange in the context of a comparison with Smart.   Effected or not, Avery has been a fairly solid 37% 3PT shooter for almost all of his career.   Smart, of course, has been a ~30% 3PT shooter for all of his career.

Ultimately, my point isn't to argue which player is better.

I'm just pointing out that Smart hasn't really been any more durable than Avery over the last 4 seasons.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Marcus vs Avery
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2018, 07:05:08 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Remember when Bradley was our 2nd leading scorer knocking down 40% from 3 and was a 1st Team All-Defense level defender for the Eastern Conference #1 team? And how we needed to trade him before his contract was up because he was going to get a $20M+/yr contract. Yeah, those were good times...

I understand the argument that Smart may have more value to our team moving forward (possibly), but some of the negative comments in this thread about AB are crazy. The dude was a true professional in Boston and we would be lucky to have him back. At least we wouldn't need to cringe whenever a 3-pt shot is hoisted up like with Marcus.

Re: Marcus vs Avery
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2018, 07:35:33 PM »

Offline 2short

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Marcus all day every day. I really liked Avery but he is too small and can't guard bigger guys and was always hurt when you needed him. I would love to have him back but I think the cost would be too much and if I could only have one it's Marcus.
This!
I'll add that Avery would be thought of much differently if he had pg skills.  For all his good parts he's an undersized sg.
Like Avery and would always welcome him back.  Marcus is an X FACTOR

Re: Marcus vs Avery
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2018, 10:18:09 AM »

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Of course I like Avery and miss him, but -

Smart's value is almost immeasurable. He means more to the C's than any other team in the league. I hope we can get him long term for 10 per. I love Marcus Smart. Especially when he's hitting his shots. When he's not? I just hope it doesn't hurt us too much. I cannot think of too many C's over the years that I've enjoyed watching so much. I replay him several times a every game doing just simple things...boxing out, setting picks, diving for the ball, playing D, making long outlet passes, rebounding.... Marcus plays basketball the way Red would have loved, except for the 3 pointers. I can honestly say that there is not 1 player in the NBA I enjoy nearly as much.

Re: Marcus vs Avery
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2018, 10:53:58 AM »

Offline hardlyyardley

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Don't sell Marcus' playmaking short....good assists production in playoffs

Re: Marcus vs Avery
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2018, 03:25:52 PM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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Remember when Bradley was our 2nd leading scorer knocking down 40% from 3 and was a 1st Team All-Defense level defender for the Eastern Conference #1 team? And how we needed to trade him before his contract was up because he was going to get a $20M+/yr contract. Yeah, those were good times...

I understand the argument that Smart may have more value to our team moving forward (possibly), but some of the negative comments in this thread about AB are crazy. The dude was a true professional in Boston and we would be lucky to have him back. At least we wouldn't need to cringe whenever a 3-pt shot is hoisted up like with Marcus.
I would take Marcus with the game on the line on D and AB on O. AB is getting some bad writing here. He was great his last year here. He Tried to play hurt a few times too. We have bad trainers we don't anymore.
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Re: Marcus vs Avery
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2018, 03:45:11 PM »

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The idea of Bradley being plan B for Smart? Bradley would not want to come off of the bench. He lost his number. And he is always hurt.

Nice guy but do not think the takes any kind of discount to come back to Boston.

Re: Marcus vs Avery
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2018, 05:34:20 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Smart is a better defender but Avery is a better shooter.   I think we gain toughness when Smart is in the game and I am not sure AB brings that to the floor like Marcus.