Author Topic: Williams in college vs. Bamba, Carter Jr, DJ, Cauley Stein?  (Read 865 times)

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Online smokeablount

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Lifted from the main thread on Robert Williams, as I thought this could use its own topic for its own benefit and to prevent the main thread from getting hijacked if it did stir up conversation.

Not sure the motor criticisms are fair. His drb% is on par with the tops in the country, and much higher than JJJ and he has a very high block % as well.

It’s not like picking Willie Cauley-Stein.  WCS is not and will never be a perfect player, but he took a step forward in college every year.  Williams was the same player this year as he was last year.  He got suspended for 3 games at the beginning of the season for violating team rules (presumably pot). His on-court effort issues are widely agreed upon.

I get the pick.  I think it was the correct one.  I just think people are way too excited about him and are setting themselves up for disappointment.  It’s a lot easier for me to see him never making it into the Celtics rotation than it is for me to see him as a foundational piece, or even really a useful on that leaves after his rookie deal.  I hope he reaches his considerable ceiling, or even gets 80% of the way there. That would make the Celtics future even more bright than it already is.  I don’t see it happening, but I’d love to be wrong.

Just curious if you did indeed watch A&M games at all, or just basing this on what you've seen on highlights/draft videos?

There was absolutely no floor spacing. There were a lot of injuries. Their point guard Caldwell was kicked off the team, two other teammates also got suspended for a few games, and he was next to a non-floor stretching big. And no competent passers for a lob catching/rim running big.

Robert Williams fell supposedly due to his motor, and knee issues, but from what I've seen. He is a threat for a lob every time.

Positives:
Can handle the ball somewhat, will be able to do give and go's.
Midrange shot is still weak, but showed a lot of improvement.
Lob catcher, A&M threw lobs from almost full court, (despite how many frugal passers there were on the team,) and explosive athlete.
His passing is actually underrated skill set of his.
Elite defender, smart at keeping ball within the court

Negatives:
How worrisome are knee concerns
Not a fluid athlete
Handling/shooting form is very suspect, very inconsistent
Doesn't do a lot of the little things
Passing needs more shape up

Basically all of his concerns minus shooting/ball handling, a good coach/leader can inspire him to do better.

Capela/DeAndre Jordan literally couldn't shoot a mid range to save their life. I think Williams could.

Ok Salt, so I see you aren't sooo bearish, but re: WCS, you wanna compare his freshman stats to Robert Williams?  Because they aren't even comparable. 

Just because Williams stayed another year and his stock fell, like other defensive wizards Marcus Smart and Joakim Noah, doesn't diminish the fact that he was a lottery freshman in the very deep 2017 draft, and could be a real find for us.

Yeah I watched some Williams games, especially last year with the Nets pick in hand.

Robert Williams played 25.6 and 25.8 minutes a game his 2 years at Texas A&M, almost exactly the same minutes as Doncic, who Saltlover comfortably projects to lofty Per 36 Minute stats.

Williams played enough for college's Per 40 Minute stats to apply.  Cauley Stein, Wendell Carter & Bamba qualify too.  DeAndre Jordan didn't play a lot, he's in the mix but his #'s are wonky. 

Here are the Career Per 40 Minute #'s of WCS (3 years), RW3 (2) & DJ/MB/WC (1):

           PPG   RPG   APG SPG  BPG FG%  3P%    FT%  TO   PF    ORtg  DRtg
RW3    17.3  13.5  2.2   1.1  3.9  59%  7%    54%  2.7  3.1  113.6  92.9
WCS    13.1  10.2   1.4   1.8  3.6  59%  0%    51%   2.0  3.8  116.6  87.1
Bamba 17.1  14.0  0.7   1.0  4.9  54%  27%  68%  2.0  3.4  118.5 89.6
Carter  20.2  13.5  3.0   1.3  3.1  56%  41%  74%  3.0  4.0  125.3  92.8 
Jordan 15.8   11.9   0.9   0.4  2.5  61%  0%     44%  3.2  3.8   Unavailable

I bolded every metric that is effectively top 2 in the group.  As you can see, the top 3 guys in bolded metrics are Bamba, the 6th pick, Carter Jr, the 7th pick... and Robert Williams, the 27th pick, over Willie Cauley Stein, a top 5 pick, and DeAndre Jordan, an All Star.  It's solid data. 

This has to be reassuring.  And if we only did 1 year for Williams, he'd still look good.

Robert Williams #'s from ONLY freshman year, to comp with Bamba, Carter and DJ:

         PPG   RPG  APG  SPG BPG  FG% 3P%  FT%   TO   PF    ORtg  DRtg
RW3  18.4  12.6  2.2   1.0   3.8   56% 11% 59%  2.7  2.8  113.5  95.7

Bold is #2 in the group of 5 (he's actually #1 in PF) and italics is #3, so you can see here that he is top 3 in this good group of 5 at every individual metric, but played with bad teammates in a bad system with bad spacing that didn't exploit his strengths, so his O & D Rtg #'s aren't elite.
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

-Sexyscottish

Re: Williams in college vs. Bamba, Carter Jr, DJ, Cauley Stein?
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2018, 06:12:28 AM »

Offline The One

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Nice work!

Iím excited to see Williams.

And picking him 10 years after Danny didnít draft DeAndre, another A&M product...itís almost eerie.

Re: Williams in college vs. Bamba, Carter Jr, DJ, Cauley Stein?
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2018, 06:25:37 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Useless because he did not play 40 minutes per game and this does not take into account fatigue, more fouls, etc.   You can bet league execs don't look at per 40 because they want real not projected stats.

Re: Williams in college vs. Bamba, Carter Jr, DJ, Cauley Stein?
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2018, 06:52:01 AM »

Offline RodyTur10

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Useless because he did not play 40 minutes per game and this does not take into account fatigue, more fouls, etc.   You can bet league execs don't look at per 40 because they want real not projected stats.

That applies to every player. A big man often only plays 25-30 minutes. So standardizing it to 30 MPG makes more sense, but those stats are not available. Besides the comparison is about relative stats with players who played comparable minutes. So it's very interesting. Though every stat needs context.
Idiot.

Re: Williams in college vs. Bamba, Carter Jr, DJ, Cauley Stein?
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2018, 10:11:28 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Interesting thought:

Bamba had a really good stretch 4/playmaker next to him.
Williams had slow a lowpost scorer next to him.

Neither had guards who knew how to open up shots for their bigs.

And they averaged almost the same points per game.

I wonder how they both would have performed if their roles were switched.

Also, here is a bit of ridiculous Celtic propaganda ...

Williams' measurements are almost identical to Anthony Davis (height and wingspan), but Williams is stronger.

Re: Williams in college vs. Bamba, Carter Jr, DJ, Cauley Stein?
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2018, 10:33:40 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Interesting thought:

Bamba had a really good stretch 4/playmaker next to him.
Williams had slow a lowpost scorer next to him.

Neither had guards who knew how to open up shots for their bigs.

And they averaged almost the same points per game.

I wonder how they both would have performed if their roles were switched.

Also, here is a bit of ridiculous Celtic propaganda ...

Williams' measurements are almost identical to Anthony Davis (height and wingspan), but Williams is stronger.
I like that propaganda DWC ;D

Re: Williams in college vs. Bamba, Carter Jr, DJ, Cauley Stein?
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2018, 08:15:13 AM »

Online smokeablount

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Also, in 3 tourney games on a run to the Sweet 16, Williams averaged 11-11-1.7 with .7 steals and 2.3 blocks, while shooting 15 of 20 on FGs, 75% (!) in under 25 mpg.  Not bad for #27.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2018, 10:06:09 AM by smokeablount »
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

-Sexyscottish