Author Topic: maturity issues or medical issues  (Read 11573 times)

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Re: maturity issues or medical issues
« Reply #60 on: June 23, 2018, 10:42:45 AM »

Offline Rosco917

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I can see oversleeping from miscommunication...but from here on in, I expect to see signs that we drafted a young adult and not a child.

NBA teams not being impressed with interviews is not a good sign when considering character.

I wonder what his grades looked like? Did he take SATS? I'm not expecting Einstein but I'm sure he attended some classes.

Here he has the greatest opportunity in his life, hopefully he'll take advantage of it.

Re: maturity issues or medical issues
« Reply #61 on: June 23, 2018, 10:59:40 AM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Here's a story on the Texas A&M suspensions.  Just says he was suspended for violating A&M policy.  Clearly wasn't anything too bad and it was only once unlike some of his teammates.   
https://www.theeagle.com/aggie_sports/texas-a-m-basketball-team-dismisses-caldwell-suspends-chandler/article_24f57b2e-0f84-11e8-819c-1b29ae93ee4c.html
I may be color blind, it's delusional think a 2-game suspension for a college athlete who has their whole world in college designed so that they can skirt the rules "wasn't anything too bad". If it wasn't anything too bad, we'd know what it was.

I think the assumption is that it was MJ.
That's what I'm assuming especially since two of his teammates got arrested mid way through the season for MJ possession.   

Re: maturity issues or medical issues
« Reply #62 on: June 23, 2018, 11:13:08 AM »

Offline rollie mass

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The team is full of tough defensive minded young guys that work hard along with the vets..I would say with strength conditioning coaches,drills ,nutritionists by the pre season we may not recognize Williams.
I would bring in Legends  Bill Russell and Dave Cowens too high energy shorter centers for a cameo appearances Then Keven Garnett and Parrish who is from his neck of the woods.
Get Drew Hanlon in to work with Semi and Williams foul shots and jumpers.
Maybe he should dress for home games and go up to Maine rather than road trips.
20 years old away from home.His teammates have to become his family.

Re: maturity issues or medical issues
« Reply #63 on: June 23, 2018, 11:13:33 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Robert Williams was not supposed to be at the NBA combine.  Here's a story two weeks before the combine indicating he like a lot of the top prospects were skipping the combine.  The agent generally decides whether the prospect should attend and how much they should do. 
https://sports.yahoo.com/complete-2018-nba-draft-combine-list-211843026.html 


Sure. I just know that he didn't do the combine and that hurt his stock because some GMs hoped to see him there. There's obviously no obligation, but unless you're a known no-miss prospect, not showing up at the combine is construed as having something to hide. Moreover, some players show up even if they don't plan to participate in the drills just to do sitdowns with teams.

There is no obligation to show up at the draft.  I like Williams even more for staying home and watching it with his family.  Considering how he dropped, it was a smart decision optically.

No, but many players do. Those projected to go in the lottery certainly do. I thought his absence was unusual.

He didn't blow off the conference call.  He overslept and it sounds like the team's communication was partially at fault.
"Dog ate my homework" excuse. Means you didn't care enough to make sure you're up and available. Set as many alarm clocks as you need, tell everyone in the house to wake you up, go to bed on time. It's all within your control if you care enough.

Williams did get suspended for an exhibition game and the 1st two regular season games.  Most definitely not good.  However the situation at Texas A&M was bad with several teammates getting suspended during the season including 1 getting dismissed from the team.
I'm surprised no details have come out. Maybe it's just nothing, but in the context of all the other eyebrow-raisers it doesn't help.

Don't know why you brought up his only starting 40 of 61 games.  Texas A&M was a very poor fitting collection of players.  The coach sometimes tried bringing Williams off the bench to offset Williams and Davis playing together.
Mostly because I think that if you're such a great talent then you're a mortal lock for the starting lineup, and everything else gets adjusted around you. But that's conjecture. Again, like everything else, it might amount to nothing in the end, but all of these are obvious red flags at this point.
I think you're color blind.  Those flags are not even pink.  Williams is a late bloomer not some great talent that was projected to be an NBA player since he was 12.  He was #64 on the RSCI rankings for the 2016 high school class.  He wasn't a projected one-and-done lottery pick so his freshman performance was to a degree a breakout season.  Williams is an intriguing raw project but he's also a two time SEC defensive player of the year. 
http://www.draftexpress.com/RSCI/2016/ 

Here's a story on the Texas A&M suspensions.  Just says he was suspended for violating A&M policy.  Clearly wasn't anything too bad and it was only once unlike some of his teammates.   
https://www.theeagle.com/aggie_sports/texas-a-m-basketball-team-dismisses-caldwell-suspends-chandler/article_24f57b2e-0f84-11e8-819c-1b29ae93ee4c.html
i am in the "let's see what we have here and see whether the bad optics are predictive or not." let's not over react, but let's pose real questions. i mean, gerald green famously fell asleep during a session with ainge trying to teach him how to read film. it took him a long time to figure things out in his life.

koz relentlessly asks (and that is okay) is robwill a GG redo? we don't know, but we might soon enough. will he be a good citizen this summer? i hope so.

but please let me address your response to Koz. first, your initial paragraph is unrelated to koz's arguements. he doesnt argue that robwill no no talent or wasnt ranked highly. so, i am not sure how that point fits into the larger argument. remember, GG was highly ranked before he fell in the draft. talent is not a predictor of knucklehead-ocity.

your second paragraph raises a good point on the suspension. NONE OF US KNOW WHY HE WAS SUSPENDED. he is only 20 years old and i know that my choices at that age were not always stellar, sage, and wise.  ::) i grew out of it, mostly. (please do not confirm this with my partner. :) )

is robwill a knucklehead at present? it could be so, given what we have seen so far. but it is not a lock by any means that he is a knucklehead.

will robwill be a knucklehead in the future? could be. but i think we need to wait and see before casting any judgement. oh, and by the way, Koz did not say "robwill = knucklehead for sure."

Koz fairly raised good questions on our newest baby celtic.
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Re: maturity issues or medical issues
« Reply #64 on: June 23, 2018, 12:12:51 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Robert Williams was not supposed to be at the NBA combine.  Here's a story two weeks before the combine indicating he like a lot of the top prospects were skipping the combine.  The agent generally decides whether the prospect should attend and how much they should do. 
https://sports.yahoo.com/complete-2018-nba-draft-combine-list-211843026.html 


Sure. I just know that he didn't do the combine and that hurt his stock because some GMs hoped to see him there. There's obviously no obligation, but unless you're a known no-miss prospect, not showing up at the combine is construed as having something to hide. Moreover, some players show up even if they don't plan to participate in the drills just to do sitdowns with teams.

There is no obligation to show up at the draft.  I like Williams even more for staying home and watching it with his family.  Considering how he dropped, it was a smart decision optically.

No, but many players do. Those projected to go in the lottery certainly do. I thought his absence was unusual.

He didn't blow off the conference call.  He overslept and it sounds like the team's communication was partially at fault.
"Dog ate my homework" excuse. Means you didn't care enough to make sure you're up and available. Set as many alarm clocks as you need, tell everyone in the house to wake you up, go to bed on time. It's all within your control if you care enough.

Williams did get suspended for an exhibition game and the 1st two regular season games.  Most definitely not good.  However the situation at Texas A&M was bad with several teammates getting suspended during the season including 1 getting dismissed from the team.
I'm surprised no details have come out. Maybe it's just nothing, but in the context of all the other eyebrow-raisers it doesn't help.

Don't know why you brought up his only starting 40 of 61 games.  Texas A&M was a very poor fitting collection of players.  The coach sometimes tried bringing Williams off the bench to offset Williams and Davis playing together.
Mostly because I think that if you're such a great talent then you're a mortal lock for the starting lineup, and everything else gets adjusted around you. But that's conjecture. Again, like everything else, it might amount to nothing in the end, but all of these are obvious red flags at this point.
I think you're color blind.  Those flags are not even pink.  Williams is a late bloomer not some great talent that was projected to be an NBA player since he was 12.  He was #64 on the RSCI rankings for the 2016 high school class.  He wasn't a projected one-and-done lottery pick so his freshman performance was to a degree a breakout season.  Williams is an intriguing raw project but he's also a two time SEC defensive player of the year. 
http://www.draftexpress.com/RSCI/2016/ 

Here's a story on the Texas A&M suspensions.  Just says he was suspended for violating A&M policy.  Clearly wasn't anything too bad and it was only once unlike some of his teammates.   
https://www.theeagle.com/aggie_sports/texas-a-m-basketball-team-dismisses-caldwell-suspends-chandler/article_24f57b2e-0f84-11e8-819c-1b29ae93ee4c.html
i am in the "let's see what we have here and see whether the bad optics are predictive or not." let's not over react, but let's pose real questions. i mean, gerald green famously fell asleep during a session with ainge trying to teach him how to read film. it took him a long time to figure things out in his life.

koz relentlessly asks (and that is okay) is robwill a GG redo? we don't know, but we might soon enough. will he be a good citizen this summer? i hope so.

but please let me address your response to Koz. first, your initial paragraph is unrelated to koz's arguements. he doesnt argue that robwill no no talent or wasnt ranked highly. so, i am not sure how that point fits into the larger argument. remember, GG was highly ranked before he fell in the draft. talent is not a predictor of knucklehead-ocity.

your second paragraph raises a good point on the suspension. NONE OF US KNOW WHY HE WAS SUSPENDED. he is only 20 years old and i know that my choices at that age were not always stellar, sage, and wise.  ::) i grew out of it, mostly. (please do not confirm this with my partner. :) )

is robwill a knucklehead at present? it could be so, given what we have seen so far. but it is not a lock by any means that he is a knucklehead.

will robwill be a knucklehead in the future? could be. but i think we need to wait and see before casting any judgement. oh, and by the way, Koz did not say "robwill = knucklehead for sure."

Koz fairly raised good questions on our newest baby celtic.
My initial paragraph was in direct response to koz bringing up Williams only starting 40 of 61 games and his stating: 
Quote
Mostly because I think that if you're such a great talent then you're a mortal lock for the starting lineup, and everything else gets adjusted around you.
That statement is ill informed.  First, Williams wasn't considered a great talent coming out of high school.  That's why he ended up at Texas A&M not Kentucky or Duke.  Second, coaches rule in college.  For the most part, they don't torque their system around to fit the talent.  They fit the talent into their system.  Third, the Texas A&M talent just didn't fit well.  They didn't have the guard talent to complement their talented bigs and in college success is predicated on good guard play.   

Re: maturity issues or medical issues
« Reply #65 on: June 23, 2018, 12:17:25 PM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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not a good start Rollie , but i’m still excited
https://twitter.com/espnforsberg/status/1010176849492799488?s=21

The Celtics were scheduled to have an 11 am conference call with first-round pick Robert Williams but have not been able to get in contact with him and have postponed the call.

GOOD GRIEF. SMH
LET'S GO CELTICS!

Re: maturity issues or medical issues
« Reply #66 on: June 23, 2018, 12:41:36 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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when you have a bad rep for attitude and motivation and you miss your first team event, it is a bad look.

Re: maturity issues or medical issues
« Reply #67 on: June 23, 2018, 12:50:37 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Rozier looked very cool in his guest shot like a fun loving kid as he punked Ainge

That was actually really stupid by Rozier. Now imagine if Ainge had said something like, "yeah, he's acted like an idiot, but we think we can straighten him out", or something to the like, thinking his conversation was private. Would you still think that was "very cool"?

We dodged a bullet. That could've gone really wrong.

This x 100 if Ainge did not have the heads up. Really dangerous.

Re: maturity issues or medical issues
« Reply #68 on: June 23, 2018, 01:05:43 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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It's not a great start, but I think you also have to leave some room for a kid just needing a little growing up. The Celtics can give him structure. Get him a driver to practices/ games. Brown and Tatum can make friends and teach him new habits.

There's some risk when a kid lacks work ethic, but if he's not out of shape, not committing crimes, not clashing with teammates, not having substance abuse issues, etc... it's also too soon to judge how he'll react to the NBA life.

all  true but isnt it better not to have to make these excuses. All folks are saying it it is not a good look. Can we not just agree on that?

Re: maturity issues or medical issues
« Reply #69 on: June 23, 2018, 01:11:05 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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No Harm- No Foul and Rozier did look cool that is a great shirt, expensive with his ripped jeans.
Rozier is a likable guy not really cognizant of possible repercussions.Just a kid that plays ball.
The point was Rozier has come a long way from jumping in pool in a suit and eating spaghetti sandwiches -a lighthearted conversation  with Danny zinging him with "looking for a point guard"
Next we will have "What If Cops"

Exactly, the conversation that they both had was very light and playful, with Ainge and his quick jab at Rozier, "I'm going to need to draft a point guard." Relax people lol.

the jab was the main problem... what if the jab was something else? Something more rapier and aimed at someone else? Actually now that the jab has been broadcast what if it gives other GMs an insight into how much Ainge values Rozier or better still what if Ainge now feels he cannot trade Rozier because it would make him look cold in a ' he joked with Rozier about replacing him and then pulled the trigger' kind of way?

Re: maturity issues or medical issues
« Reply #70 on: June 23, 2018, 01:12:16 PM »

Offline Chris22

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He went to his aunt's house to sleep. Yikes, he's a bust!

Re: maturity issues or medical issues
« Reply #71 on: June 23, 2018, 01:33:29 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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He went to his aunt's house to sleep. Yikes, he's a bust!

bad look

Re: maturity issues or medical issues
« Reply #72 on: June 23, 2018, 01:49:11 PM »

Offline bellerephon

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Not going to the combine was most likely part of a plan on the part of his agent. The fact that it likely ended up hurting his draft position is not in any way a mark against Williams but rather a mistake by the agent.

Not attending the draft is also in no way a mark against Williams. It's not an obligation and it means nothing that he didn't go. We can only speculate as to why he did not attend, but in the end it means nothing.

Missing the conference call could be a sign of immaturity, depends why he missed it and we will likely never know the real reason. I don't regard it as a big deal.

I'm not suggesting there are no causes for concern. The suspension should not be dismissed. It doesn't mean he's a bad guy, but it needs to be taken into consideration. In the end I'm not too worried about it, I'm sure the Celts know the reason for the suspension and were able to put it in its proper perspective.

The most worrisome thing is his reputation for having a poor motor. That is the only thing I have heard that could stand in his way at the NBA level, but it is potentially huge. I don't watch much college ball, and I have never seen Williams play, so I have no idea if the charge is legit. If true it's a big problem, we will see.

The knee is also an issue, if there are real injury concerns that should not be dismissed. In the end, however, there is no way a kid with this potential would slip to 27 if there were no issues. The Celts did the right thing rolling the dice on Williams, I don't think anyone else that was on the board at 27 has even half his potential.

Re: maturity issues or medical issues
« Reply #73 on: June 23, 2018, 01:54:19 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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He went to his aunt's house to sleep. Yikes, he's a bust!

bad look

Nope.

Biggest night of his life, and he missed some stupid conference call for the media early the next am. It's not like this was a big event that he missed. He made a stupid mistake for a stupid conference call. What were we going to learn from this conference call? How would that information help the Boston Celtics win the championship?

It would be different if it was his first day of actual work. This was a trivial event, and he treated it like it wasn't important. I'd agree with you if the conference call had any impact on anything.

We don't need to analyze every action and try to pull a greater meaning out of it. I'm sure the team is going to focus on time management with young Robert Williams. Until it becomes an actual issue, I'm going to focus on his basketball play.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 02:00:32 PM by green_bballers13 »

Re: maturity issues or medical issues
« Reply #74 on: June 23, 2018, 02:15:08 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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It would be different if it was his first day of actual work. This was a trivial event, and he treated it like it wasn't important. I'd agree with you if the conference call had any impact on anything.
Here's the thing: treating stuff like it isn't important never looks good to the people you work for. Even if the stuff isn't really important. My experience is that people who can't adequately complete small, not-so-important tasks without falling flat on their face definitely cannot manage bigger, more important tasks.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."