Author Topic: Ainge got his big at pick 27. Welcome Robert Williams  (Read 11260 times)

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Re: Ainge got his big at pick 27. Welcome Robert Williams
« Reply #360 on: June 24, 2018, 05:49:27 PM »

Offline liam

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I think we sometimes get too mixed up in worrying about 2-3 inches when it just doesn't matter that much. I think physical strength matters a lot more when it comes to how big of a position a player can play (and quickness is what matters going the other direction). Obviously it doesn't matter how strong Marcus Smart is, he'll never truly be able to bother someone's shot who is 8" taller but I don't think 4" matters nearly as much defensively if a player has the desire and the strength to not get bullied.

The pic above of Ben Wallace standing next to Bill Russell is evidence of that. Same goes for Semi be able to hold position in the post against some big centers this past year.

Just watching highlights, I'm not worried about his size or, obviously, his athleticism. His success in the NBA will be determined by his IQ and work ethic.

What were Williams' final measurements. Wasn't it like 6'9" or 6'10" and a 7'6" wing span and 240lbs?

He's a big man.

https://www.theringer.com/2018/3/22/17149150/robert-williams-texas-am-sweet-16

Re: Ainge got his big at pick 27. Welcome Robert Williams
« Reply #361 on: June 24, 2018, 06:03:56 PM »

Offline Big333223

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I think we sometimes get too mixed up in worrying about 2-3 inches when it just doesn't matter that much. I think physical strength matters a lot more when it comes to how big of a position a player can play (and quickness is what matters going the other direction). Obviously it doesn't matter how strong Marcus Smart is, he'll never truly be able to bother someone's shot who is 8" taller but I don't think 4" matters nearly as much defensively if a player has the desire and the strength to not get bullied.

The pic above of Ben Wallace standing next to Bill Russell is evidence of that. Same goes for Semi be able to hold position in the post against some big centers this past year.

Just watching highlights, I'm not worried about his size or, obviously, his athleticism. His success in the NBA will be determined by his IQ and work ethic.

What were Williams' final measurements. Wasn't it like 6'9" or 6'10" and a 7'6" wing span and 240lbs?

He's a big man.

https://www.theringer.com/2018/3/22/17149150/robert-williams-texas-am-sweet-16

I think the debate is about not having official combine measurements and just going off either what's been reported or measurements that were taken a few years ago.

But I don't think the different between 6'8" and 6'10" is all the meaningful, especially once you take into account build and strength and even wingspan.
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Re: Ainge got his big at pick 27. Welcome Robert Williams
« Reply #362 on: June 24, 2018, 07:05:05 PM »

Offline playdream

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I think we sometimes get too mixed up in worrying about 2-3 inches when it just doesn't matter that much. I think physical strength matters a lot more when it comes to how big of a position a player can play (and quickness is what matters going the other direction). Obviously it doesn't matter how strong Marcus Smart is, he'll never truly be able to bother someone's shot who is 8" taller but I don't think 4" matters nearly as much defensively if a player has the desire and the strength to not get bullied.

The pic above of Ben Wallace standing next to Bill Russell is evidence of that. Same goes for Semi be able to hold position in the post against some big centers this past year.

Just watching highlights, I'm not worried about his size or, obviously, his athleticism. His success in the NBA will be determined by his IQ and work ethic.
That's just wrong

Smart completely lock down Kristaps Porzingis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn15jiu7eQQ


Re: Ainge got his big at pick 27. Welcome Robert Williams
« Reply #363 on: June 24, 2018, 07:17:26 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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I think we sometimes get too mixed up in worrying about 2-3 inches when it just doesn't matter that much. I think physical strength matters a lot more when it comes to how big of a position a player can play (and quickness is what matters going the other direction). Obviously it doesn't matter how strong Marcus Smart is, he'll never truly be able to bother someone's shot who is 8" taller but I don't think 4" matters nearly as much defensively if a player has the desire and the strength to not get bullied.

The pic above of Ben Wallace standing next to Bill Russell is evidence of that. Same goes for Semi be able to hold position in the post against some big centers this past year.

Just watching highlights, I'm not worried about his size or, obviously, his athleticism. His success in the NBA will be determined by his IQ and work ethic.
That's just wrong

Smart completely lock down Kristaps Porzingis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn15jiu7eQQ
tp

Re: Ainge got his big at pick 27. Welcome Robert Williams
« Reply #364 on: June 24, 2018, 08:32:59 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I think we sometimes get too mixed up in worrying about 2-3 inches when it just doesn't matter that much. I think physical strength matters a lot more when it comes to how big of a position a player can play (and quickness is what matters going the other direction). Obviously it doesn't matter how strong Marcus Smart is, he'll never truly be able to bother someone's shot who is 8" taller but I don't think 4" matters nearly as much defensively if a player has the desire and the strength to not get bullied.

The pic above of Ben Wallace standing next to Bill Russell is evidence of that. Same goes for Semi be able to hold position in the post against some big centers this past year.

Just watching highlights, I'm not worried about his size or, obviously, his athleticism. His success in the NBA will be determined by his IQ and work ethic.
That's just wrong

Smart completely lock down Kristaps Porzingis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn15jiu7eQQ
If only NBA games lasted one possession...
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Re: Ainge got his big at pick 27. Welcome Robert Williams
« Reply #365 on: June 24, 2018, 08:54:42 PM »

Offline liam

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I think we sometimes get too mixed up in worrying about 2-3 inches when it just doesn't matter that much. I think physical strength matters a lot more when it comes to how big of a position a player can play (and quickness is what matters going the other direction). Obviously it doesn't matter how strong Marcus Smart is, he'll never truly be able to bother someone's shot who is 8" taller but I don't think 4" matters nearly as much defensively if a player has the desire and the strength to not get bullied.

The pic above of Ben Wallace standing next to Bill Russell is evidence of that. Same goes for Semi be able to hold position in the post against some big centers this past year.

Just watching highlights, I'm not worried about his size or, obviously, his athleticism. His success in the NBA will be determined by his IQ and work ethic.

What were Williams' final measurements. Wasn't it like 6'9" or 6'10" and a 7'6" wing span and 240lbs?

He's a big man.

https://www.theringer.com/2018/3/22/17149150/robert-williams-texas-am-sweet-16

I think the debate is about not having official combine measurements and just going off either what's been reported or measurements that were taken a few years ago.

But I don't think the different between 6'8" and 6'10" is all the meaningful, especially once you take into account build and strength and even wingspan.

I agree that getting accurate measurements can be something that never happens. But either way Robert Williams is huge and very athletic with a huge wingspan and he is so quick. I didn't think there was anyway we could or would get this guy so I am over the moon optimistic about the whole thing.

Re: Ainge got his big at pick 27. Welcome Robert Williams
« Reply #366 on: June 24, 2018, 09:14:22 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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Iím glad that there are questions about his work ethic, knee status and motor.

If there werenít these questions, we likely would never have gotten him.

Re: Ainge got his big at pick 27. Welcome Robert Williams
« Reply #367 on: June 24, 2018, 09:15:36 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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Sure, Iíll just give you the rest of your natural life to queue up the good oleí list of guys who were available at pick #27 with all those attributes, plus a 7í6Ē wingspan, 40Ē vertical and 240 pound NBA body at 20.

Hint: there are 0 such players, so maybe donít sweat the impossible stuff so much.

People keep quoting his measurables as if they mean something.  They mean nothing if he can't harness them.  Maybe people need to watch more NFL drafts, or something, to understand how useless measurables are in the end. 

He can play, or learn to play, or he can't, regardless of his weight, wingspan, and jumping ability.

He averaged 12-8-1.4 on 56% shooting as a freshman playing in a bad system, with 2.7 blocks and .7 steals a game in 25 minutes. Other than Jaren Jackson Jr hitting 3ís and hitting a good FT%, which obviously do matter, Williams put up #4 pick in the draft #ís. Heíd have been a top 12 pick last year.

Youíre quoting intangibles as if theyíre the only thing. Study up.

I didn't quote anything about intangibles.  You should read posts before replying to them, especially if you're going to get snarky with your response.

And you should learn what ďharnessĒ means, he is top 5 in several categories in the past 10 years of SEC play, including PER and defensive box plus minus. Sorry I said Ďintangiblesí instead of Ďmeasurementsí, the hotness of your take mustíve blinded me.
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Re: Ainge got his big at pick 27. Welcome Robert Williams
« Reply #368 on: June 25, 2018, 01:22:25 PM »

Offline The One

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I just hope people aren't calling him a bust if it takes him a couple of seasons.

Capela played 8 minutes per game in year 1 and 20 minutes in year 2.

DeAndre played 15 minutes per game in year 1 and 16 minutes in year 2.

And Williams is coming into a STACKED team...so it's going to take a little bit of time.


Re: Ainge got his big at pick 27. Welcome Robert Williams
« Reply #369 on: June 25, 2018, 01:58:50 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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Sure, Iíll just give you the rest of your natural life to queue up the good oleí list of guys who were available at pick #27 with all those attributes, plus a 7í6Ē wingspan, 40Ē vertical and 240 pound NBA body at 20.

Hint: there are 0 such players, so maybe donít sweat the impossible stuff so much.

People keep quoting his measurables as if they mean something.  They mean nothing if he can't harness them.  Maybe people need to watch more NFL drafts, or something, to understand how useless measurables are in the end. 

He can play, or learn to play, or he can't, regardless of his weight, wingspan, and jumping ability.

He averaged 12-8-1.4 on 56% shooting as a freshman playing in a bad system, with 2.7 blocks and .7 steals a game in 25 minutes. Other than Jaren Jackson Jr hitting 3ís and hitting a good FT%, which obviously do matter, Williams put up #4 pick in the draft #ís. Heíd have been a top 12 pick last year.

Youíre quoting intangibles as if theyíre the only thing. Study up.

I didn't quote anything about intangibles.  You should read posts before replying to them, especially if you're going to get snarky with your response.

And you should learn what ďharnessĒ means, he is top 5 in several categories in the past 10 years of SEC play, including PER and defensive box plus minus. Sorry I said Ďintangiblesí instead of Ďmeasurementsí, the hotness of your take mustíve blinded me.

Statistically he's the number 18 player in NCAA history in career DBPM. No 22 in NCAA history in career BPM.  No 2 in Career SEC DRbd %.

Re: Ainge got his big at pick 27. Welcome Robert Williams
« Reply #370 on: June 25, 2018, 01:59:59 PM »

Offline greenrunsdeep41

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This fact is one of many reasons I consider Baynes to be a luxury item.  Between Horford, Theis, Williams, and Yabusele we should be able to patch together 48 minutes of center play.  And if Yabusele isnít ready to help with that in year 2, then he needs to be moved so that we can afford someone else who can (Baynes or otherwise).

Honestly, what do you see in Yabu? I'm not trying to make fun of you, nor anyone else, for that matter, who happens to like the guy, it's just that I don't understand as to the fascination with a player who couldn't even break into the rotation when the team was desperate for bodies. I get that he's a former first rounder *facepalm*, and all, but if we're being honest with ourselves, Jabari Bird showed far more even in that one game against the Bulls than Yabusele has over the last two years, draft-and-stash or not, but I'm weird :-\.

I donít see all that much.  But I donít get to see him in practice and know what the Celtics are asking him to work on and do when he gets in games.  If heís in the right place and making the right reads and rotations, thatís important, even though we wouldnít be able to see it in his limited time on court. He was drafted as a project, and he does need to be viewed through that lens, especially in his first year.

But what Iím saying is that he has $2.6 million guaranteed this year, and as weíre tight against the tax, it would be best if he can be at least a small contributor, even if itís as the 11th man in the rotation.  We donít have the the salary space to release him and take on a minimum free agent in all likelihood, so thatís why Iím against cutting him.  If heís completely useless, it will cost something to move him, and Iíd rather not have to spend something to get rid of him.  But as I said in the post you quoted, if he canít be relied on for a few minutes a game, then thatís what needs to happen. 

Iíd be disappointed if it came to that, because itíd have been a waste of a mid-1st, but I guess I knew thereíd be a few misses with all the 1st Ainge accumulated, so if this is one, so be it.

I'm probably wrong, here, but I don't remember a guy who was described as "the French Draymond Green", which is beyond hilarious for historical reasons, imo, lol ;D, being labeled as a project.

What I do recall, however, is that, he, along with Zizic, were primarily drafted because Ainge wanted to "save money" ::) by stashing them overseas as opposed to having to pay two first round picks BECAUSE TWO MAX CONTRACTS AND KEVIN DURANT ::).

That said, I was going to ask as to whether or not this is more of an issue related to finances as opposed to anything else, so it looks as though you've covered everything, there :).

Could we not have moved him, as well as Nader, in a deal for a second round pick, though? Surely, if Yabu is/was so highly valued around the league, would not someone, anyone, have been willing to take a chance on him for said price?

This fact is one of many reasons I consider Baynes to be a luxury item.  Between Horford, Theis, Williams, and Yabusele we should be able to patch together 48 minutes of center play.  And if Yabusele isnít ready to help with that in year 2, then he needs to be moved so that we can afford someone else who can (Baynes or otherwise).

Honestly, what do you see in Yabu? I'm not trying to make fun of you, nor anyone else, for that matter, who happens to like the guy, it's just that I don't understand as to the fascination with a player who couldn't even break into the rotation when the team was desperate for bodies. I get that he's a former first rounder *facepalm*, and all, but if we're being honest with ourselves, Jabari Bird showed far more even in that one game against the Bulls than Yabusele has over the last two years, draft-and-stash or not, but I'm weird :-\.
he was a 21 year old rookie playing in the US for the first time. he is better than the vast majority of gleague dregs. let's give another year and see if he develops or not. capela took a year or two, as did bradley, and perk.

I would understand the willingness to give him more time if he had even shown anything in a single game, but I just haven't seen it, yet. Plus, both Bradley and Capela were contributing in their first two years in the league, respectively, although, yes, in Perk's case, it took him until year three, but in fairness, I was never a Perk fan, lol ;D, not to mention the fact that I can find plenty of "gleague dregs" ::) who are better players than Guerschon Yabusele.

Iím curious about Draymonds stats in his first couple years.

Oh wait, no Iím not. He was useless.

Re: Ainge got his big at pick 27. Welcome Robert Williams
« Reply #371 on: June 25, 2018, 02:00:10 PM »

Offline liam

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I just hope people aren't calling him a bust if it takes him a couple of seasons.

Capela played 8 minutes per game in year 1 and 20 minutes in year 2.

DeAndre played 15 minutes per game in year 1 and 16 minutes in year 2.

And Williams is coming into a STACKED team...so it's going to take a little bit of time.

I expect Williams to make the All-Star team this year! ;D

Re: Ainge got his big at pick 27. Welcome Robert Williams
« Reply #372 on: June 25, 2018, 02:12:34 PM »

Offline Emmette Bryant

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I just hope people aren't calling him a bust if it takes him a couple of seasons.

Capela played 8 minutes per game in year 1 and 20 minutes in year 2.

DeAndre played 15 minutes per game in year 1 and 16 minutes in year 2.

And Williams is coming into a STACKED team...so it's going to take a little bit of time.

Guys like Avery Bradley and Terry Rozier were trashed mercilessly on this forum during their rookie seasons. Why do you think RW3 will be different?

Re: Ainge got his big at pick 27. Welcome Robert Williams
« Reply #373 on: June 25, 2018, 02:41:04 PM »

Offline Silent Storm

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Is it too optimistic to hope that Williams' ceiling is a poor man's Shawn Kemp with a more favorable view of contraception?
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Re: Ainge got his big at pick 27. Welcome Robert Williams
« Reply #374 on: June 25, 2018, 03:09:40 PM »

Offline DooVoo

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To give you an idea how fortunate the Celtics were consider the bigs drafted after Williams.    
Omari Spellman whose NBA comparison on a few sites is Adreian Payne who only had two blah seasons as a mediocre PF and 12th guy on a bench and is already out of the league. Mitchell Robinson who never played a game in college and is a massive project. Fans would get excited about his measurements but he isn't anywhere as talented as Williams and would never see the floor for the Celtics in the next three years and would likely be waived. Chimezie Metu who is not a NBA player. Then Thomas Welsh who reminds me a lot of old friend Colton Iverson which means he will bounce around Europe as a serviceable big man.

So the drop off was severe. Which is why Ainge probably would have taken the best player available. Even if Williams never pans out getting him at 27 was ridiculous just cause his talent was far superior to what came after and a lot of what came before.