Author Topic: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen  (Read 1976 times)

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Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2018, 01:29:28 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Nice article as always from Lowe. Ultimately he reaches what is probably the right conclusion, you probably should include Jaylen in a Kawhi trade. But I wouldn't. He brings up many of he things Jaylen supporter (myself included) like to talk when we discuss his upside. He is not as bad of a ball handler as people make him out to be, as Lowe points out he has some nascent feel for keeping defenders on his hip, hitting pull up jumpers and even some nice dribble moves. He problems come more from not quite having the feel for the game, its not that he doesn't have the dribble its that he doesn't know how to use it yet. And I'm very confident he will improve that, most young players do. Its a matter of how much. Jaylen could be an All NBA level player, no guarantees but I'd roll with what we got and risk it.


Ultimately I think people forget that the kid was just 21. He was billed as a raw project who coming out of college and in year 2 was one of the top two options (Tatum and him alternated) on an ECF team. He's made as much progress as you could ask for.
Sure, heíll improve his feel for the game.  But he has below average feel for his age and experience.  How does he go from below average to average (or above), which heíll need to become a star?

Simple.

It's called great coaching, and hard work ethic. Kawhi benefited greatly from being in a great system and position, a lot of people said Kawhi was a system reliant player, so we'll see how he pans out once he leaves SAS.. Kawhi wasn't even that good in college, and many presumably had him as the 8th best SF coming into the draft. His handles still aren't that great, but his ginormous hands/wingspan help make up for it. Jaylen has the athleticism to match that advantage.
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Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2018, 01:35:43 PM »

Offline gift

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They are not similar.... body type, explosiveness, shooting mechanics,  think the game differently.  Defensive versatility is the only one thing in common, but Kawhi is a step ahead of course

Brown needs to "calm" his mind in crucial situations and focus on taking the right shot/making the correct play.  Needs to improve on jump shot/FT shot.  Be assertive when attacking the basket

Expecting him to noticeably improve handles is a fantasy.


He may or may not improve from where he is now. But he noticeably improved from year 1 to year 2. So I wouldn't say it is fantasy.

Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2018, 01:58:21 PM »

Offline LilRip

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Great read. Would really hate giving up either of Jaylen or Tatum, even if it is for someone as talented as Kawhi. That said, Iím glad Iím not the one making the big decisions. Perfectly content being a fan this time around.
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Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2018, 02:08:55 PM »

Online Fafnir

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Really great article. This entire Kawhi situation the past year has me out on trading for him, not unless what he and his uncle say in private with the C's is very different than I expect.

I really just want to see this C's team come back and actually play together now and see how much better Tatum/Brown can be. I loved this past season with the team, just refused to quit ever. I want to see them without the injuries.

Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2018, 02:10:21 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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They are not similar.... body type, explosiveness, shooting mechanics,  think the game differently.  Defensive versatility is the only one thing in common, but Kawhi is a step ahead of course

Brown needs to "calm" his mind in crucial situations and focus on taking the right shot/making the correct play.  Needs to improve on jump shot/FT shot.  Be assertive when attacking the basket

Expecting him to noticeably improve handles is a fantasy.


He may or may not improve from where he is now. But he noticeably improved from year 1 to year 2. So I wouldn't say it is fantasy.

did he really ?  against the Cavs he got pick pocket driving to the hoop, one too many times.  He was still not all that comfortable driving  left. 

With some daylight he has a good enough straight line handle to get to the basket.  In transition, he has good enough straight line handle to make it all the way to the basket.  But in a crowded situation.... .   If he can get stronger it can help

Its ok if won't be able to handle the ball like Tatum or Lebron.  Iguadala is mainly a straight line drive guy and he is a very good player.  Brown should try to improve his handle but also accept limitations at some point.  His jump shot on the other hand.... there is much more room for improvement
 

Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2018, 02:17:40 PM »

Offline The One

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And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatumís ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2018, 02:20:18 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatumís ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses

Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2018, 02:20:22 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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They are not similar.... body type, explosiveness, shooting mechanics,  think the game differently.  Defensive versatility is the only one thing in common, but Kawhi is a step ahead of course

Brown needs to "calm" his mind in crucial situations and focus on taking the right shot/making the correct play.  Needs to improve on jump shot/FT shot.  Be assertive when attacking the basket

Expecting him to noticeably improve handles is a fantasy.

Why is that a fantasy? He made improvements between year 1 and year 2 that were noticeable. He works hard, and I think many perimeter players improve their ballhandling after a few years in the league.

Will he ever be Kyrie? No. But nobody is Kyrie. I think he can (and likely will) get significantly better.

Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2018, 05:05:19 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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Other than insignificant changes, I want to see how we do with what we have. I just hope for good health.

Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2018, 05:42:13 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Lowe sums it up nicely at the end:

Quote
If everything lines up right -- and only then -- Leonard is good enough, and still young enough, that you probably hold your nose and deal Brown in exchange. If anything about Leonard feels off or unknowable, Boston can sit tight and feel fine. Brown is that intriguing.

This is basically how I feel, with the addition that I always like having homegrown talent so there are sentimental reasons for wanting to keep Brown (and for wanting Brown to succeed) that I have.
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Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2018, 05:58:28 PM »

Online liam

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And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatumís ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses

Jaylen is a better two way player. I hope they push each other and both become superstars!

Jaylen had a better year last year than Kawhi.

The best ability is availability!

Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2018, 06:22:43 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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Nice article as always from Lowe. Ultimately he reaches what is probably the right conclusion, you probably should include Jaylen in a Kawhi trade. But I wouldn't. He brings up many of he things Jaylen supporter (myself included) like to talk when we discuss his upside. He is not as bad of a ball handler as people make him out to be, as Lowe points out he has some nascent feel for keeping defenders on his hip, hitting pull up jumpers and even some nice dribble moves. He problems come more from not quite having the feel for the game, its not that he doesn't have the dribble its that he doesn't know how to use it yet. And I'm very confident he will improve that, most young players do. Its a matter of how much. Jaylen could be an All NBA level player, no guarantees but I'd roll with what we got and risk it.


Ultimately I think people forget that the kid was just 21. He was billed as a raw project who coming out of college and in year 2 was one of the top two options (Tatum and him alternated) on an ECF team. He's made as much progress as you could ask for.
Sure, heíll improve his feel for the game.  But he has below average feel for his age and experience.  How does he go from below average to average (or above), which heíll need to become a star?

I dont think he has below average feel relative for "his age and experience." Relative to the league as a whole yes. But alot of guys his age need to improve in that area. He got alot better year one to year two, and he shows plenty of flashes. Whether its the pull up short jumper Lowe highlights to avoid contests  in the paint, kick out passes he starting to see (assists went up in 2nd half) or his much improved defense rotations. I think its a virtual guarantee he gets to average in that regard based on what he is and his obvious improvement already.

Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2018, 06:22:53 PM »

Offline td450

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And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatumís ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses
Brown doesn't need to be able to do the same things Tatum does to be a better player.

Zach Lowe made the point that Brown is a monster athlete and that his athleticism will become more apparent as he develops his skills more. The gap between his raw athleticism and Tatum's is pretty significant. Brown is quicker and faster than anyone in the league who is his height or taller.

He does do some things better than Tatum already. He's on his way to being a dominant, all-NBA defender. He can finish through contact, which Tatum can't do very well yet, and he's quite good with either hand, which Tatum doesn't have at all.

He's also got an alpha dog mentality. He had a poor ECF game 7, but by and large he tends to play big against the best players.

If he learns to make better reads on where the help is coming from, and protect the ball better, he will be impossible to stop. Lots of younger players improve at these things. He might plateau, but I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up as the teams best player.


Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2018, 06:31:37 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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They are not similar.... body type, explosiveness, shooting mechanics,  think the game differently.  Defensive versatility is the only one thing in common, but Kawhi is a step ahead of course

Brown needs to "calm" his mind in crucial situations and focus on taking the right shot/making the correct play.  Needs to improve on jump shot/FT shot.  Be assertive when attacking the basket

Expecting him to noticeably improve handles is a fantasy.

Why is that a fantasy? He made improvements between year 1 and year 2 that were noticeable. He works hard, and I think many perimeter players improve their ballhandling after a few years in the league.

Will he ever be Kyrie? No. But nobody is Kyrie. I think he can (and likely will) get significantly better.

Ya if you are telling me that any young guy has 0 shot at improving in an Šrea you are wrong, regardless of who or what you are talking about. But in Jaylen's case there are reasons for optimism. First off he made improvements from last year when basically you didnt want him dribbling in b the paint. This year we were a screaming at him to drive cuz he got alot better in that area. Also he has some solid more advanced moves like lowe points out. Crossover, euro step, even an in and out dribble that got him open on that huge dunk on Kristaps. He is dynamite as a ball handler in transition, a skill that is often a precursor for ball handling as a whole. This isnt a situation like Ben Simmons where a guy doesnt even have a skill at all, he has some nice building blocks. And we've seen from his work out videos and such that he works on the on dribblibg, off hand finishing, ect. So yes, ge will get better. There is potential there.

Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2018, 06:42:07 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatumís ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses

At as right now, I might be inclined to agree to a point, but on the other hand, what you're saying, here, makes absolutely no sense, imo. Is it not possible to "teach" basketball skills?



;D
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 12:50:47 AM by Beat LA »