Author Topic: Player or players you donít want the Celtics drafting  (Read 1299 times)

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Re: Player or players you donít want the Celtics drafting
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2018, 12:14:28 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Mine is Josh Okogie. Limited on offense. Undersized at 6í4. A very very poor manís Smart.

He has G League written all over him.

We could stand to do a lot worse, imo, like Grayson Allen, lol ;D, who is, without a doubt, the player from whom I absolutely want the Celtics to stay away. Can't stand him, and besides, as to how many dookies do we need on this team, anyway? ;) ;D

Yes, who would want a bunch of players from a team that is coached by the winningest coach of all time who gets multiple top five high school players each year, usually the very top one... Let's instead go find a guy from Nevada state!

I hate to break it to you, but until relatively recently, most of the Duke players who made it to the NBA simply never lived up to their respective billings, regardless of Coach K.

Just because a guy doesn't go to Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Indiana, Michigan State, or even UConn, for example, doesn't mean that he can't play in the NBA.

Re: Player or players you donít want the Celtics drafting
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2018, 12:18:39 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Mine is Josh Okogie. Limited on offense. Undersized at 6í4. A very very poor manís Smart.

He has G League written all over him.

We could stand to do a lot worse, imo, like Grayson Allen, lol ;D, who is, without a doubt, the player from whom I absolutely want the Celtics to stay away. Can't stand him, and besides, as to how many dookies do we need on this team, anyway? ;) ;D

Your Allen hate is personal and not based on what he actually brings to the team. With Allen you know you're going to get shooting/floor spacing, passing, and a guy that's going to flat-out compete. He plays with fire, which turns people off, but so did Ainge, who was one of the most disliked players in the NBA.

If our starting lineup is as expected (Big 3, Tatum, and Brown) then one glaring hole we have is a consistent knockdown shooter off the bench. Definitely not a star by any means, but I could see a solid role player type of career for him. I've seen Sura, who played 10 seasons, comparisons and that doesn't seem far off at all.

Lol, nice try, man, but my disdain for his dirty play is not the only reason as to why I'm just, well, not a fan of the guy, as he has sub-par length, can't create his own shot, isn't much of an athlete, and simply doesn't have the quickness necessary to guard point guards, as he's also undersized to, at least theoretically, anyway, defend against most shooting guards. I know that you'll cite the numbers from the combine in terms of his agility, but I just don't see it, overall, with him, not to mention the fact that his in-conference play has dramatically declined for the last two years despite the continued presence of future NBA lottery picks, lol ;D. Dude hasn't even sniffed 40% in terms of overall fg% since his sophomore year ::). Like, I'd understand a slight dip in percentages, or whatever, if the primary offensive option graduated and Allen suddenly had to assume said mantle of responsibility, as it were, but that's not the case, here. Not even close.

If you want someone who brings that toughness/glue guy stuff to the team, and I do, albeit with better size, quickness, athleticism, and shooting, not to mention an overall superior skillset, just take Rawle Alkins and call it a day.

Honestly, I'm not even sure as to whether or not Grayson Allen would even be considered to be a draft prospect if he had attended almost any other college save for Duke, but whatever :-\.

Here are those conference play numbers, btw -

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/grayson-allen-1.html
Some of these criticisms don't really make sense. His length is comparable to guys like CJ McCollum and Bradley Beal, so he's not really that small. Just compared to guys like DeRozan and Klay.
He is provably athletic. You can't just dismiss that because 'you don't see it.'
He shot 2% over 40% from the field this year, so that criticism is just straight up false.

Your fascination with Alkins is really weird, as he's not an impressive athlete (bad agility, not a fast sprinter, but a solid leaper), as well as being a worse shooter, scorer, passer and playmaker than Allen.

Your line about Allen being not a real prospect and only being considered because he went to Duke is pretty ridiculous. 14/3/3 over a 4 year college career (including his freshman year where he barely played) in the ACC under Coach K, shooting 43/38/83 and winning the vast majority of his games, including a National Championship game in which he was the second leading scorer, is easily a resume worthy of a draft pick

Re: Player or players you donít want the Celtics drafting
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2018, 12:29:21 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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With the 27th pick, simply doesnít matter very much at all.

Re: Player or players you donít want the Celtics drafting
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2018, 12:32:09 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

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With the 27th pick, simply doesnít matter very much at all.
exactly. Our pick will likely be a flawed player one way or another. The scrutiny over avoiding a player is unwarranted this late in the draft

Re: Player or players you donít want the Celtics drafting
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2018, 01:01:17 AM »

Offline wiley

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With the 27th pick, simply doesnít matter very much at all.
exactly. Our pick will likely be a flawed player one way or another. The scrutiny over avoiding a player is unwarranted this late in the draft

scrutiny by bloggers...I assume you mean..?

Re: Player or players you donít want the Celtics drafting
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2018, 01:06:04 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Some of these criticisms don't really make sense. His length is comparable to guys like CJ McCollum and Bradley Beal, so he's not really that small. Just compared to guys like DeRozan and Klay.

Sure, but CJ McCollum is much quicker than Allen and has long been particularly adept at creating his own shot, while Beal is a better athlete than either of them, so that's out the window.

Quote
He is provably athletic. You can't just dismiss that because 'you don't see it.'
He shot 2% over 40% from the field this year, so that criticism is just straight up false.

Listen, I understand that the eye test is subjective, but whenever I've seen him play, the guy has struggled scoring around the basket against NBA-caliber athletes, not to mention the fact that he got bailed out on a number of ridiculous calls, imo, which resulted in free throws. Did you see the video of his career high of 37 points?

I'm sorry, but dude just looked over matched out there, imo.

As for the sentence about his fg%, I was talking about his numbers from the ACC, not his overall shooting percentage. Have a look if you don't believe me -

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/grayson-allen-1.html

Quote
Your fascination with Alkins is really weird, as he's not an impressive athlete (bad agility, not a fast sprinter, but a solid leaper), as well as being a worse shooter, scorer, passer and playmaker than Allen.

It's not "weird" at all. Allen might be a better passer, yes, and, by a whopping 1.5% ::), a better three point shooter than Alkins, but I simply disagree with everything else, which is fine :).

Quote
Your line about Allen being not a real prospect and only being considered because he went to Duke is pretty ridiculous. 14/3/3 over a 4 year college career (including his freshman year where he barely played) in the ACC under Coach K, shooting 43/38/83 and winning the vast majority of his games, including a National Championship game in which he was the second leading scorer, is easily a resume worthy of a draft pick

Hardly. I've seen better players go undrafted, but beyond that, I really don't care about as to how good Allen might be, as, I'm sorry, but his "behavior" simply has no place in the NBA, imo, making him a perfect fit in Golden State ::).
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 02:20:06 AM by Beat LA »

Re: Player or players you donít want the Celtics drafting
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2018, 07:55:54 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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Mine is Josh Okogie. Limited on offense. Undersized at 6í4. A very very poor manís Smart.

He has G League written all over him.

We could stand to do a lot worse, imo, like Grayson Allen, lol ;D, who is, without a doubt, the player from whom I absolutely want the Celtics to stay away. Can't stand him, and besides, as to how many dookies do we need on this team, anyway? ;) ;D

Your Allen hate is personal and not based on what he actually brings to the team. With Allen you know you're going to get shooting/floor spacing, passing, and a guy that's going to flat-out compete. He plays with fire, which turns people off, but so did Ainge, who was one of the most disliked players in the NBA.

If our starting lineup is as expected (Big 3, Tatum, and Brown) then one glaring hole we have is a consistent knockdown shooter off the bench. Definitely not a star by any means, but I could see a solid role player type of career for him. I've seen Sura, who played 10 seasons, comparisons and that doesn't seem far off at all.

Lol, nice try, man, but my disdain for his dirty play is not the only reason as to why I'm just, well, not a fan of the guy, as he has sub-par length, can't create his own shot, isn't much of an athlete, and simply doesn't have the quickness necessary to guard point guards, as he's also undersized to, at least theoretically, anyway, defend against most shooting guards. I know that you'll cite the numbers from the combine in terms of his agility, but I just don't see it, overall, with him, not to mention the fact that his in-conference play has dramatically declined for the last two years despite the continued presence of future NBA lottery picks, lol ;D. Dude hasn't even sniffed 40% in terms of overall fg% since his sophomore year ::). Like, I'd understand a slight dip in percentages, or whatever, if the primary offensive option graduated and Allen suddenly had to assume said mantle of responsibility, as it were, but that's not the case, here. Not even close.

If you want someone who brings that toughness/glue guy stuff to the team, and I do, albeit with better size, quickness, athleticism, and shooting, not to mention an overall superior skillset, just take Rawle Alkins and call it a day.

Honestly, I'm not even sure as to whether or not Grayson Allen would even be considered to be a draft prospect if he had attended almost any other college save for Duke, but whatever :-\.

Here are those conference play numbers, btw -

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/grayson-allen-1.html
Some of these criticisms don't really make sense. His length is comparable to guys like CJ McCollum and Bradley Beal, so he's not really that small. Just compared to guys like DeRozan and Klay.
He is provably athletic. You can't just dismiss that because 'you don't see it.'
He shot 2% over 40% from the field this year, so that criticism is just straight up false.

Your fascination with Alkins is really weird, as he's not an impressive athlete (bad agility, not a fast sprinter, but a solid leaper), as well as being a worse shooter, scorer, passer and playmaker than Allen.

Your line about Allen being not a real prospect and only being considered because he went to Duke is pretty ridiculous. 14/3/3 over a 4 year college career (including his freshman year where he barely played) in the ACC under Coach K, shooting 43/38/83 and winning the vast majority of his games, including a National Championship game in which he was the second leading scorer, is easily a resume worthy of a draft pick

That's absolutely ridiculous. Amazingly, BeatLA seems to think that there is some mass agenda, one where teams and draft sites alike are blinded by his actual play and are only putting him as a late 1st rd pick because he went to Duke. Yeah, that sure makes a lot of sense.

These are the pluses that Kevin O'Conner sees in him, which I guess means he's part of the conspiracy to get Allen drafted too.  ::)

-Dead-eye spot-up shooter with NBA range and the ability to hit tough, contested shots.

-Possesses excellent footwork, a quick release, and the ability to manipulate defenders using screens to get open.

-Aggressive attacking closeouts; mixes in hesitations and uses both hands to finish at the rim.

-Solid passing vision and accuracy; improved as a distributor and ball handler over his four years at Duke, especially in the pick-and-roll.

-Good rebounder for his position who battles bigs and uses his instincts to chase loose balls.

-Tough player with a relentless attitude; plays hard on defense.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 09:20:21 AM by Eddie20 »

Re: Player or players you donít want the Celtics drafting
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2018, 09:19:06 AM »

Offline celticinorlando

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There have been some really good players taken at this area in the draft. If Semi can get minutes why canít this pick?

Semi had nearly no offense at all this season but played.
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Re: Player or players you donít want the Celtics drafting
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2018, 09:24:35 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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There have been some really good players taken at this area in the draft. If Semi can get minutes why canít this pick?

Semi had nearly no offense at all this season but played.

The only reason Semi played that much was because of all our injuries. Unless he drastically improves his shooting, we probably won't see Semi as much this year (73 games played - 15.8 mpg - last season).

Re: Player or players you donít want the Celtics drafting
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2018, 09:27:32 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Mine is Josh Okogie. Limited on offense. Undersized at 6í4. A very very poor manís Smart.

He has G League written all over him.

We could stand to do a lot worse, imo, like Grayson Allen, lol ;D, who is, without a doubt, the player from whom I absolutely want the Celtics to stay away. Can't stand him, and besides, as to how many dookies do we need on this team, anyway? ;) ;D

Your Allen hate is personal and not based on what he actually brings to the team. With Allen you know you're going to get shooting/floor spacing, passing, and a guy that's going to flat-out compete. He plays with fire, which turns people off, but so did Ainge, who was one of the most disliked players in the NBA.

If our starting lineup is as expected (Big 3, Tatum, and Brown) then one glaring hole we have is a consistent knockdown shooter off the bench. Definitely not a star by any means, but I could see a solid role player type of career for him. I've seen Sura, who played 10 seasons, comparisons and that doesn't seem far off at all.

Lol, nice try, man, but my disdain for his dirty play is not the only reason as to why I'm just, well, not a fan of the guy, as he has sub-par length, can't create his own shot, isn't much of an athlete, and simply doesn't have the quickness necessary to guard point guards, as he's also undersized to, at least theoretically, anyway, defend against most shooting guards. I know that you'll cite the numbers from the combine in terms of his agility, but I just don't see it, overall, with him, not to mention the fact that his in-conference play has dramatically declined for the last two years despite the continued presence of future NBA lottery picks, lol ;D. Dude hasn't even sniffed 40% in terms of overall fg% since his sophomore year ::). Like, I'd understand a slight dip in percentages, or whatever, if the primary offensive option graduated and Allen suddenly had to assume said mantle of responsibility, as it were, but that's not the case, here. Not even close.

If you want someone who brings that toughness/glue guy stuff to the team, and I do, albeit with better size, quickness, athleticism, and shooting, not to mention an overall superior skillset, just take Rawle Alkins and call it a day.

Honestly, I'm not even sure as to whether or not Grayson Allen would even be considered to be a draft prospect if he had attended almost any other college save for Duke, but whatever :-\.

Here are those conference play numbers, btw -

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/grayson-allen-1.html
Some of these criticisms don't really make sense. His length is comparable to guys like CJ McCollum and Bradley Beal, so he's not really that small. Just compared to guys like DeRozan and Klay.
He is provably athletic. You can't just dismiss that because 'you don't see it.'
He shot 2% over 40% from the field this year, so that criticism is just straight up false.

Your fascination with Alkins is really weird, as he's not an impressive athlete (bad agility, not a fast sprinter, but a solid leaper), as well as being a worse shooter, scorer, passer and playmaker than Allen.

Your line about Allen being not a real prospect and only being considered because he went to Duke is pretty ridiculous. 14/3/3 over a 4 year college career (including his freshman year where he barely played) in the ACC under Coach K, shooting 43/38/83 and winning the vast majority of his games, including a National Championship game in which he was the second leading scorer, is easily a resume worthy of a draft pick

That's absolutely ridiculous. Amazingly, BeatLA seems to think that there is some mass agenda, one where teams and draft sites alike are blinded by his actual play and are only putting him as a late 1st rd pick because he went to Duke. Yeah, that sure makes a lot of sense.

These are the pluses that Kevin O'Conner sees in him, which I guess means he's part of the conspiracy to get Allen drafted too.  ::)

-Dead-eye spot-up shooter with NBA range and the ability to hit tough, contested shots.

-Possesses excellent footwork, a quick release, and the ability to manipulate defenders using screens to get open.

-Aggressive attacking closeouts; mixes in hesitations and uses both hands to finish at the rim.

-Solid passing vision and accuracy; improved as a distributor and ball handler over his four years at Duke, especially in the pick-and-roll.

-Good rebounder for his position who battles bigs and uses his instincts to chase loose balls.

-Tough player with a relentless attitude; plays hard on defense.
But Rawle Alkins!!  ::)

Re: Player or players you donít want the Celtics drafting
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2018, 09:32:39 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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Mine is Josh Okogie. Limited on offense. Undersized at 6í4. A very very poor manís Smart.

He has G League written all over him.

We could stand to do a lot worse, imo, like Grayson Allen, lol ;D, who is, without a doubt, the player from whom I absolutely want the Celtics to stay away. Can't stand him, and besides, as to how many dookies do we need on this team, anyway? ;) ;D

Your Allen hate is personal and not based on what he actually brings to the team. With Allen you know you're going to get shooting/floor spacing, passing, and a guy that's going to flat-out compete. He plays with fire, which turns people off, but so did Ainge, who was one of the most disliked players in the NBA.

If our starting lineup is as expected (Big 3, Tatum, and Brown) then one glaring hole we have is a consistent knockdown shooter off the bench. Definitely not a star by any means, but I could see a solid role player type of career for him. I've seen Sura, who played 10 seasons, comparisons and that doesn't seem far off at all.

Lol, nice try, man, but my disdain for his dirty play is not the only reason as to why I'm just, well, not a fan of the guy, as he has sub-par length, can't create his own shot, isn't much of an athlete, and simply doesn't have the quickness necessary to guard point guards, as he's also undersized to, at least theoretically, anyway, defend against most shooting guards. I know that you'll cite the numbers from the combine in terms of his agility, but I just don't see it, overall, with him, not to mention the fact that his in-conference play has dramatically declined for the last two years despite the continued presence of future NBA lottery picks, lol ;D. Dude hasn't even sniffed 40% in terms of overall fg% since his sophomore year ::). Like, I'd understand a slight dip in percentages, or whatever, if the primary offensive option graduated and Allen suddenly had to assume said mantle of responsibility, as it were, but that's not the case, here. Not even close.

If you want someone who brings that toughness/glue guy stuff to the team, and I do, albeit with better size, quickness, athleticism, and shooting, not to mention an overall superior skillset, just take Rawle Alkins and call it a day.

Honestly, I'm not even sure as to whether or not Grayson Allen would even be considered to be a draft prospect if he had attended almost any other college save for Duke, but whatever :-\.

Here are those conference play numbers, btw -

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/grayson-allen-1.html
Some of these criticisms don't really make sense. His length is comparable to guys like CJ McCollum and Bradley Beal, so he's not really that small. Just compared to guys like DeRozan and Klay.
He is provably athletic. You can't just dismiss that because 'you don't see it.'
He shot 2% over 40% from the field this year, so that criticism is just straight up false.

Your fascination with Alkins is really weird, as he's not an impressive athlete (bad agility, not a fast sprinter, but a solid leaper), as well as being a worse shooter, scorer, passer and playmaker than Allen.

Your line about Allen being not a real prospect and only being considered because he went to Duke is pretty ridiculous. 14/3/3 over a 4 year college career (including his freshman year where he barely played) in the ACC under Coach K, shooting 43/38/83 and winning the vast majority of his games, including a National Championship game in which he was the second leading scorer, is easily a resume worthy of a draft pick

That's absolutely ridiculous. Amazingly, BeatLA seems to think that there is some mass agenda, one where teams and draft sites alike are blinded by his actual play and are only putting him as a late 1st rd pick because he went to Duke. Yeah, that sure makes a lot of sense.

These are the pluses that Kevin O'Conner sees in him, which I guess means he's part of the conspiracy to get Allen drafted too.  ::)

-Dead-eye spot-up shooter with NBA range and the ability to hit tough, contested shots.

-Possesses excellent footwork, a quick release, and the ability to manipulate defenders using screens to get open.

-Aggressive attacking closeouts; mixes in hesitations and uses both hands to finish at the rim.

-Solid passing vision and accuracy; improved as a distributor and ball handler over his four years at Duke, especially in the pick-and-roll.

-Good rebounder for his position who battles bigs and uses his instincts to chase loose balls.

-Tough player with a relentless attitude; plays hard on defense.
But Rawle Alkins!!  ::)

Every off-season Beat LA loves talking up obscure players. None of them ever hit, but one of these years he's going to nail one...law of averages.

Re: Player or players you donít want the Celtics drafting
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2018, 10:11:12 AM »

Offline mef730

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With the 27th pick, simply doesnít matter very much at all.

Prior five-year #27s:

2017: Kyle Kuzma
2016: Pascal Siakam
2015: Larry Nance Jr
2014: Bogdan Bogdanovic
2013: Rudy Gobert

That seems to me to be a pretty good hit rate at the end of the draft.

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Re: Player or players you donít want the Celtics drafting
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2018, 05:44:07 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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That's absolutely ridiculous. Amazingly, BeatLA seems to think that there is some mass agenda, one where teams and draft sites alike are blinded by his actual play and are only putting him as a late 1st rd pick because he went to Duke. Yeah, that sure makes a lot of sense.

Where did I say anything about there being a "mass agenda"? ::) Perhaps a better way to phrase it would be to say that there is a blatant double standard in regards to the manner in which white Duke players are perceived in contrast to their Caucasian collegiate counterparts, although don't ask me as to why, aside from the fact that ESPN, for example, has used Jay Bilas and Jay Williams, not to mention the infamous "Krzyzewski Sniffer" that is Dick Vitale ::), during their coverage of the NBA draft for years, now, and at least some of the stuff that comes out of their respective mouths is beyond ridiculous, imo.

Quote
These are the pluses that Kevin O'Conner sees in him, which I guess means he's part of the conspiracy to get Allen drafted too.  ::)

-Dead-eye spot-up shooter with NBA range and the ability to hit tough, contested shots.

-Possesses excellent footwork, a quick release, and the ability to manipulate defenders using screens to get open.

-Aggressive attacking closeouts; mixes in hesitations and uses both hands to finish at the rim.

-Solid passing vision and accuracy; improved as a distributor and ball handler over his four years at Duke, especially in the pick-and-roll.

-Good rebounder for his position who battles bigs and uses his instincts to chase loose balls.

-Tough player with a relentless attitude; plays hard on defense.

Yes, and directly below all of that on Allen's draft profile via The Ringer you have the following minuses:

- Flat-footed perimeter defender who lacks lateral quickness and gets smoked by lesser players.

- At-rim finishing numbers dropped as a senior, possibly due to diminished burst after packing on more muscle.

- First step needs to improve significantly to become more than just a straight-line driver.

- Drew a lot of fouls in college, but tends to play ďbully ball,Ē which doesnít always translate against NBA athleticism.

- Settled for a lot of runners as a senior rather than getting all the way to the rim.

- Peaked as a sophomore and made only marginal progress over the past two seasons.

Beyond that, O'Connor comparing Grayson Allen to any version of Eric Gordon is patently absurd, imo, and likening him to Ainge is also rather lazy, in my view, and simply has no basis in reality save for skin color and height, but whatever :-\.

But Rawle Alkins!!  ::)

Every off-season Beat LA loves talking up obscure players. None of them ever hit, but one of these years he's going to nail one...law of averages.

Yes, because Rawle Alkins is an "obscure player" ::). Who are all of these other peeps, btw? Are they simply guys who attended smaller schools, dudes who weren't drafted, or some combination of the two?

Sure, I've tried to bring attention to a number of players, and especially over the last two years, iirc, who, imo, did not receive the proper recognition while they were in college, but most of those guys have actually made their way to the NBA in various capacities since that time, so your point is what, exactly?

Just because they didn't go to a big program doesn't mean that they can't play in the NBA #DoubleNegativeAlert.

Re: Player or players you donít want the Celtics drafting
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2018, 08:02:10 AM »

Online Celtics4ever

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Either of the Porter brothers, both seem unhealthy.   One should be long gone but I am hoping he does not pull a Sullinger and drop down so Ainge can pull the trigger.   These guys do not look athletic or fluid.

Also, anyone who does not play D, does not belong on our team, period.   Keep drafting size and athletic ability and preferably guys who have both assets.   Everyone saw how far we got without our stars given we turned the team over to athletic, sizable, guys who could guard multiple positions.   We need to continue this trend.   That is why I would rather have a guard than a PG because an athletic guy with size will have enough size to switch whereas pure PG are often small.

PS.  Please don't try to use Ben Simmons as a example of a big one because he is a point forward pretending to be a PG with no outside shot.