Author Topic: Stephen Miller  (Read 4912 times)

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Stephen Miller
« on: June 18, 2018, 01:34:07 AM »

Offline mqtcelticsfan

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I generally try to avoid being particularly inflammatory when it comes to politics, as I think it shuts down necessary dialogue. With that being said, I cannot help myself when it comes to Stephen Miller. This man is an absolute ghoul, and it’s endlessly depressing that such an awful human is in a position of influence.

When I first read about the issue going on with families being separated, my first thought was how Miller factored into this. Lo and behold, it’s since come out that Miller was a key player, and is openly proud of the policy. If news comes out that sounds cruel, heartless or tone deaf, it’s a near certainty that Miller had his hands in the decision making. I cannot wait until this demon of a man is out of the federal government.

Re: Stephen Miller
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2018, 02:02:13 AM »

Online saltlover

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I completely agree. I try very much to avoid calling someone “evil.”  But Stephen Miller is evil.
“When an alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.”

Leviticus 19:33-34

Re: Stephen Miller
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2018, 06:26:35 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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He’s creepy as heck.

The border separation policy is an entirely different debate. It’s emotion versus law enforcement.


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Re: Stephen Miller
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2018, 06:42:14 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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It's far better treatment than you or I would get if we broke the law in Mexico.

https://www.cnn.com/2014/05/30/us/mexico-us-marine-detained/index.html


It is heartless definitely and bad optics for the world.  Most all of us don't it.

But here in the USA we often take away children who are put at risk by their parents.   These kids have been walked through the desert, placed in uncooled trailers, basically smuggled as human cargo, and exposed to areas where human trafficking is commonplace.    Do you think their parents placed them at risk?   I do. 

How is this any different than the Department of Human Services taking away a kid that was left in a hot car?  Do you think that is bad and this is not?

Re: Stephen Miller
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2018, 06:58:30 AM »

Online saltlover

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He’s creepy as heck.

The border separation policy is an entirely different debate. It’s emotion versus law enforcement.

It’s actually about denying people with legitimate asylum claims from entering the country at manned border crossings, where they could legally make their asylum claim upon setting a single foot in the country.  This forces them to cross at other non-manned points of entry, whereupon they are charged with an illegal border crossing.  There they are arrested.  That’s entrapment, not law enforcement.
“When an alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.”

Leviticus 19:33-34

Re: Stephen Miller
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2018, 07:14:42 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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He’s creepy as heck.

The border separation policy is an entirely different debate. It’s emotion versus law enforcement.

It’s actually about denying people with legitimate asylum claims from entering the country at manned border crossings, where they could legally make their asylum claim upon setting a single foot in the country.  This forces them to cross at other non-manned points of entry, whereupon they are charged with an illegal border crossing.  There they are arrested.  That’s entrapment, not law enforcement.

Entrapment? Nobody is forcing these people to illegally enter our country.  They’ve got every right to apply to enter our country.  Instead, they illegally sneak in.  Getting separated from their families is the risk they’re taking by breaking the law.

Several thousands of illegal entrants have been detained in recent months. It can’t continue unabated.


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Re: Stephen Miller
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2018, 07:17:19 AM »

Offline eja117

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To be fair our country and society is pretty freaky now. He is a very freaky response to some other freaky stuff.

Re: Stephen Miller
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2018, 07:34:54 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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The border separation policy is an entirely different debate. It’s emotion versus law enforcement.
There is no law whose enforcement requires you to separate children from their parents. For all practical purposes, it's cruel and unusual punishment.

It's far better treatment than you or I would get if we broke the law in Mexico.
I've always found this line of argument fascinating. Some countries stone people to death. Should we do that too?

This is about the United States, not about Mexico; there is no reason we should hold ourselves to other places' low(er) standards.
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Re: Stephen Miller
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2018, 07:43:40 AM »

Online saltlover

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He’s creepy as heck.

The border separation policy is an entirely different debate. It’s emotion versus law enforcement.

It’s actually about denying people with legitimate asylum claims from entering the country at manned border crossings, where they could legally make their asylum claim upon setting a single foot in the country.  This forces them to cross at other non-manned points of entry, whereupon they are charged with an illegal border crossing.  There they are arrested.  That’s entrapment, not law enforcement.

Entrapment? Nobody is forcing these people to illegally enter our country.  They’ve got every right to apply to enter our country.  Instead, they illegally sneak in.  Getting separated from their families is the risk they’re taking by breaking the law.

Several thousands of illegal entrants have been detained in recent months. It can’t continue unabated.

Do you know how the asylum process works?  As in, how you apply for asylum?
“When an alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.”

Leviticus 19:33-34

Re: Stephen Miller
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2018, 07:49:11 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
There is no law whose enforcement requires you to separate children from their parents.

Huh? Pretty much all of them involve jail do. And, if you commit a crime while with your children, expect a call from Child Protective Services.


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Re: Stephen Miller
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2018, 07:51:22 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
There is no law whose enforcement requires you to separate children from their parents. For all practical purposes, it's cruel and unusual punishment.

And our Social Service Agencies do it all the time for child endangerment how is walking your kid across a desert any different?   Do you care about that? 

Quote
I've always found this line of argument fascinating. Some countries stone people to death. Should we do that too?

This is about the United States, not about Mexico; there is no reason we should hold ourselves to other places' low(er) standards.

No, to stoning but face it the reason we have a huge problem in this area is because our laws are a little lax.   Enforcing our existing laws is my standard and the standard I think we should embrace.  Right now this is the law of the land.

Quote
Attorney General Jeff Sessions today notified all U.S. Attorney’s Offices along the Southwest Border of a new “zero-tolerance policy” for offenses under 8 U.S.C. § 1325(a), which prohibits both attempted illegal entry and illegal entry into the United States by an alien.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attorney-general-announces-zero-tolerance-policy-criminal-illegal-entry

I still think it's terrible to separate families but we do it all the time here and no one blinks an eye.

Re: Stephen Miller
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2018, 07:58:26 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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He’s creepy as heck.

The border separation policy is an entirely different debate. It’s emotion versus law enforcement.

It’s actually about denying people with legitimate asylum claims from entering the country at manned border crossings, where they could legally make their asylum claim upon setting a single foot in the country.  This forces them to cross at other non-manned points of entry, whereupon they are charged with an illegal border crossing.  There they are arrested.  That’s entrapment, not law enforcement.

Entrapment? Nobody is forcing these people to illegally enter our country.  They’ve got every right to apply to enter our country.  Instead, they illegally sneak in.  Getting separated from their families is the risk they’re taking by breaking the law.

Several thousands of illegal entrants have been detained in recent months. It can’t continue unabated.

Do you know how the asylum process works?  As in, how you apply for asylum?

The asylum process is being abused. During Obama’s administration, something like only 9% of Mexican asylum claims were granted. The current administration isn’t buying into that charade.


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Re: Stephen Miller
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2018, 08:20:18 AM »

Offline eja117

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Quote
There is no law whose enforcement requires you to separate children from their parents.

Huh? Pretty much all of them involve jail do. And, if you commit a crime while with your children, expect a call from Child Protective Services.
Entering illegally for a first time offender is a misdemeanor. Will most of us lose our kids for a length of time for a misdemeanor? Will they take them from us while breast feeding, or tell us they're being taken for a bath, or tell us we'll never see them again? For a misdemeanor?

I don't see what would be so difficult about family camps. We could keep Japanese families together during WW2, but a few thousand immigrants at the border and we're suddenly overwhelmed.

Re: Stephen Miller
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2018, 08:28:17 AM »

Offline td450

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It's far better treatment than you or I would get if we broke the law in Mexico.

https://www.cnn.com/2014/05/30/us/mexico-us-marine-detained/index.html


It is heartless definitely and bad optics for the world.  Most all of us don't it.

But here in the USA we often take away children who are put at risk by their parents.   These kids have been walked through the desert, placed in uncooled trailers, basically smuggled as human cargo, and exposed to areas where human trafficking is commonplace.    Do you think their parents placed them at risk?   I do. 

How is this any different than the Department of Human Services taking away a kid that was left in a hot car?  Do you think that is bad and this is not?
The difference is that in one case, a desperate family takes a risk together to give themselves a chance at a better life (a strategy that has often worked), while in the case of the hot car, a parent exposes their kid to dangerous conditions for no reason at all except neglect and stupidity.

Re: Stephen Miller
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2018, 08:29:19 AM »

Offline Ed Hollison

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Many of the people being separated from their children are not law breakers. They are asylum seekers.

Quote
[T]here have been reports of people arriving at the ports of entry asking for asylum and being taken into custody, and some of the designated ports are not accepting asylum claims. In those cases, migrants sometimes cross wherever they can and, because it is not an official border station, are detained even though they are making a claim of asylum. Many would-be asylum applicants do not know where official ports of entry are.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/17/us/politics/melania-trump-family-separation.html?&hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
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