Why Kawhi Leonard...we already have him

[KGBirdBias]

Another angle is...is Ainge just trying to get in talks in the event teams need a 3rd team.

[keevsnick]

Kawhi and Jimmy Butler are a couple rare exceptions.  Generally, NBA superstars reach that level before age 23.  Go back and look at guys like Durant, Anthony Davis, Kobe, LeBron, etc and you'll see all of them more or less reach their superstar stat output by age 21.  That's why you should prepare yourself for Tatum (a true superstar prospect) to reach that level as early as next season.

With Kawhi and JImmy, they had uniquely weird developmental paths where they slowly improved over the course of 5 seasons getting to their "star" level at age 25. 

That's not really typical. 

So I understand how you can look at someone like Jaylen's current trajectory and say "oh, he's on path to be the next Jimmy Butler in a few more years."  To be clear, I was actually on board with the Jaylen Brown pick on day 1 and said I hoped he could be Jimmy Butler in 5 years, so I'm not totally dismissing that concept.  But I think we need to be careful about not setting our expectations too high.   

Jaylen Brown 2nd year:  14.5 points, 4.9 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 1 steal with 46.5%/39.5%/64.4% shooting.

Jeff Green 2nd year: 16.5 points, 6.7 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal with 44.6%/38.9%/78.8% shooting.

If you were to back a decade and ask me about Jeff Green, I would have told you he was on a path to stardom and could probably be the best player on a team if they didn't already have the phenom Durant.  Green was a similar player.  Decent shot, strong defender, super athletic, explosive, limited offensive skill set. 

I remember getting a glimpse into how good Jeff Green could be during Feburary of his 2nd season when he put up averages of 20.5 points, 9.5 rebounds, 2.7 assists with 45.7%/40.5%/79% shooting.  That was a whole month of Green looking like an all-star during his 2nd season.

In a lot of ways Tatum/Brown reminded me a TON of Durant/Green this season. 

For what it's worth, I think Green was poorly developed.  He played out of position early on (before it was trendy) and SEA/OKC didn't have the supporting talent, coaching and environment for him to blossom the same way Brown can.  Also, Green always seemed a little checked out.  Brown seems motivated and hungry to go beyond Green's ceiling.   

But just because he's improved doesn't mean he's a guarantee to continue improving.

Its not just Butler and Kawhi, he also is at or ahead of were George and Hayward were at 21. So that 4 of the top 6 SFS in the league. So sure, hes not Lebron or Durant. FINE. Neither is Tatum, almost nobody is thay good. Even if hes a George, Butler, Hayward level (top20) you still probably keep him cuz of age, peice, health over Kawhi.

[vjcsmoke]

If we give up Jaylen Brown, Marcus Morris, Marcus Smart (sign&trade), Kings pick, and two other 1st round picks, I think this is a deal that San Antonio could accept.

Of course you want to talk to Kahwi first and make sure he wants to be in Boston, wants to sign that extension, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I love Jaylen Brown, and I believe he has a super bright future.  But Kahwi is one of those guys that would bring the Celtics to the next level, championship level.

A lineup of Irving, Hayward, Leonard, Tatum, Horford puts us in direct footing to challenge and even beat Golden State!!!

[Sophomore]

Honestly, if you were trying to build a poor man's version of the Warriors to match up with Steph, Klay, Durant and Draymond... you'd basically come up with Kyrie, Hayward, Kawhi and Horford.  That's about as close as it gets.  If you can have those 4 while also keeping Tatum and think you can keep all those guys long-term, you might have to do it.

Kyrie = Steph - sharp-shooting dynamic and efficient guard
Hayward = Klay - Elite shooter
Kawhi = Durant - Mvp-level talent
Horford = Draymond - Floor spreading big who does a little of everything

Man, if you can get those 4, keep Tatum AND most of our key picks, we're in business.  Hence why Brown + a Smart sign-and-trade might be the deal to make.

Yeah, I like that Celtics squad a little better. And that’s before we add Tatum as our fifth(!), who brings a lot that Iguodala does not.

This is such a hard call, but honestly, I still prefer the idea of running it back and adding Kyrie and Gordon.

[KGBirdBias]

I know this is a stretch but could you imagine the defense with Smart, Kawhi and Horford. Geez...teams would struggle to get to 90.

[LarBrd33]

Let's say Ainge makes a deal of Brown, Smart and picks for Kawhi.

Then we have a lineup of
Kyrie
Hayward
Tatum
Kawhi
Horford

Ainge will then have to decide who to sign either Kyrie or Kawhi. Since Rozier is on board, Kyrie may be the odd man out.  I think Ainge could then still work a S&T involving Horford for the one that doesn't want to resign. Ainge would be betting both don't want to walk and if they both want to sign, then Horford and Rozier are gone.

Getting both will make it harder for both to turn down big money. Either way, Ainge wouldn't let them walk for nothing.

if we add kawhi the idea would be to sign both long term.  There’s no either/or.

[byennie]

Honestly, if you were trying to build a poor man's version of the Warriors to match up with Steph, Klay, Durant and Draymond... you'd basically come up with Kyrie, Hayward, Kawhi and Horford.  That's about as close as it gets.  If you can have those 4 while also keeping Tatum and think you can keep all those guys long-term, you might have to do it.

Kyrie = Steph - sharp-shooting dynamic and efficient guard
Hayward = Klay - Elite shooter
Kawhi = Durant - Mvp-level talent
Horford = Draymond - Floor spreading big who does a little of everything

Man, if you can get those 4, keep Tatum AND most of our key picks, we're in business.  Hence why Brown + a Smart sign-and-trade might be the deal to make.

I do think this is the argument for going all-in with a package built around Brown. We'd be on par with Golden State 1-4, but with an easier path to The Finals, and potentially a full step above the rest of the way down the roster. Tatum, Baynes, Theis, Rozier blow away Iguodala, Livingston and Bell.

It can be argued either way which 1-4 is better, but I think most people would agree Irving can go toe-to-toe with Steph, Kawhi with Durant, and the rest are comparable as well. Maybe not strictly better than GS but "poor man's" is a little harsh and obviously draws the line right before Tatum, who is head and shoulders better than the 5th best player on any other team GS included.

Yeah, signing Kyrie and Kawhi is a big deal, but Golden State won't be any cheaper... they've already got a $150M starting lineup on the way in 2019/20 plus a repeater tax to think about.

[byennie]

Let's say Ainge makes a deal of Brown, Smart and picks for Kawhi.

Then we have a lineup of
Kyrie
Hayward
Tatum
Kawhi
Horford

Ainge will then have to decide who to sign either Kyrie or Kawhi. Since Rozier is on board, Kyrie may be the odd man out.  I think Ainge could then still work a S&T involving Horford for the one that doesn't want to resign. Ainge would be betting both don't want to walk and if they both want to sign, then Horford and Rozier are gone.

Getting both will make it harder for both to turn down big money. Either way, Ainge wouldn't let them walk for nothing.

if we add kawhi the idea would be to sign both long term.  There’s no either/or.

Yup. They'll want to sign both. The next move is Al - either get him to opt out and sign a longer deal to retire in Boston (say 4/75) that saves us money right away, or find a cheap defensive replacement by 2020/21. Then Hayward's deal is up before Tatum gets rich. If Al burns out a year soon, maybe stretch the balance of the contract.

Fill the roster with more cheap young players and veteran role players... guys like Baynes, Theis, Ojeyele, 2nd rounders, last 1sts, etc. Keep a guy like Rozier for now if you can as a cheap 6th man/ PG insurance. Dump someone like Yabusele if he can't play for another minimum salary.

Put it all together and you have a solid 3-5 year window... with any luck you reload around Tatum even after that.

[LarBrd33]

Honestly, if you were trying to build a poor man's version of the Warriors to match up with Steph, Klay, Durant and Draymond... you'd basically come up with Kyrie, Hayward, Kawhi and Horford.  That's about as close as it gets.  If you can have those 4 while also keeping Tatum and think you can keep all those guys long-term, you might have to do it.

Kyrie = Steph - sharp-shooting dynamic and efficient guard
Hayward = Klay - Elite shooter
Kawhi = Durant - Mvp-level talent
Horford = Draymond - Floor spreading big who does a little of everything

Man, if you can get those 4, keep Tatum AND most of our key picks, we're in business.  Hence why Brown + a Smart sign-and-trade might be the deal to make.

I do think this is the argument for going all-in with a package built around Brown. We'd be on par with Golden State 1-4, but with an easier path to The Finals, and potentially a full step above the rest of the way down the roster. Tatum, Baynes, Theis, Rozier blow away Iguodala, Livingston and Bell.

It can be argued either way which 1-4 is better, but I think most people would agree Irving can go toe-to-toe with Steph, Kawhi with Durant, and the rest are comparable as well. Maybe not strictly better than GS but "poor man's" is a little harsh and obviously draws the line right before Tatum, who is head and shoulders better than the 5th best player on any other team GS included.

Yeah, signing Kyrie and Kawhi is a big deal, but Golden State won't be any cheaper... they've already got a $150M starting lineup on the way in 2019/20 plus a repeater tax to think about.

The freakiest thing is that in a year or two if Tatum develops on a typical superstar trajectory, a team of Kyrie, Kawhi, Tatum, Hayward and Horford probably has Gordon Hayward as the 4th option.  That's crazy.

[iadera]

If he can make it with Jaylen, Kings pick and Rozier, than yes, DA will go after Kawhi.

[Celtics4ever]

If he can make it with Jaylen, Kings pick and Rozier, than yes, DA will go after Kawhi.

I think you're way off and he won't do it, he loves our guys.

[iadera]

If he can make it with Jaylen, Kings pick and Rozier, than yes, DA will go after Kawhi.

I think you're way off and he won't do it, he loves our guys.

He loved IT4 as well. And you know what? Maybe he still loves him.

[KGBirdBias]

Let's say Ainge makes a deal of Brown, Smart and picks for Kawhi.

Then we have a lineup of
Kyrie
Hayward
Tatum
Kawhi
Horford

Ainge will then have to decide who to sign either Kyrie or Kawhi. Since Rozier is on board, Kyrie may be the odd man out.  I think Ainge could then still work a S&T involving Horford for the one that doesn't want to resign. Ainge would be betting both don't want to walk and if they both want to sign, then Horford and Rozier are gone.

Getting both will make it harder for both to turn down big money. Either way, Ainge wouldn't let them walk for nothing.

if we add kawhi the idea would be to sign both long term.  There’s no either/or.

Um so you think the Celtics can absorb 4 guys making $25+M? I don't think so

It's not a bad thing, one can always be dealt in a S&T. Stevens believes Horford drives everything so until his deal can be part of another deal no one is going to take him off our hands by himself.

[KGBirdBias]

I think a core deal of Brown, Morris, Baynes, Kings pick, Celtics 27th pick will be starters. Ainge can always throw in Memphis or LA pick if need be.

I don't believe Rozier will be included just because Kyrie is coming off an injury.

[BitterJim]

Let's say Ainge makes a deal of Brown, Smart and picks for Kawhi.

Then we have a lineup of
Kyrie
Hayward
Tatum
Kawhi
Horford

Ainge will then have to decide who to sign either Kyrie or Kawhi. Since Rozier is on board, Kyrie may be the odd man out.  I think Ainge could then still work a S&T involving Horford for the one that doesn't want to resign. Ainge would be betting both don't want to walk and if they both want to sign, then Horford and Rozier are gone.

Getting both will make it harder for both to turn down big money. Either way, Ainge wouldn't let them walk for nothing.

if we add kawhi the idea would be to sign both long term.  There’s no either/or.

Um so you think the Celtics can absorb 4 guys making $25+M? I don't think so

It's not a bad thing, one can always be dealt in a S&T. Stevens believes Horford drives everything so until his deal can be part of another deal no one is going to take him off our hands by himself.

Ownership has said that they are willing to pay the tax for a contender. This team would definitely be one.

Wyc would have to sell the team if he didn't even try to re-sign both of those guys for monetary reasons, the fans would (understandably) never forgive him