Author Topic: Why Kawhi Leonard...we already have him  (Read 22110 times)

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Re: Why Kawhi Leonard...we already have him
« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2018, 04:48:06 PM »

Offline Moranis

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To keep him off of other teams.  It is all well and good to not want to give up the farm for Leonard, but Boston can kiss any shot at winning the title over the next 3-5 years if Leonard ends up in LA with James or on the Sixers (not to mention the Warriors are still out there).
If only Leonard ends up on Philly, they're still not better than Boston. Even if he and James end up in L.A., that's not a team I'd consider unbeatable unless they get George too.
Philly is absolutely better than Boston if Leonard joins them if the trade is something like Covington, Fultz, and 10.  They could even add Saric and 26 and they are still likely better, and in that scenario they still have cap room for another max player or can just re-sign all of their free agents i.e. Redick, Ilyasova, Belinelli, and Johnson.

This is a pretty darn good team

PG - Simmons, McConnell, Bayless
SG - Redick, Belinelli, Korkmaz
SF - Leonard, Anderson, Luwauw-Cabarrot
PF - Ilyasova, Johnson
C - Embiid, Holmes

That team is absolutely stacked
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Re: Why Kawhi Leonard...we already have him
« Reply #46 on: June 15, 2018, 04:59:04 PM »

Offline playdream

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Just say no to LeBron
Just say no to Kawhi

Let's not risk future pieces for guys who may not even want to stick around long term.

We have the chance to build a team that will win for years to come, no need for instant gratification. Let's keep the current team as-is.
Brown may not want to stick long term, he already puplic stated concern about Ainge+Brad's decision of trading IT

Re: Why Kawhi Leonard...we already have him
« Reply #47 on: June 15, 2018, 05:02:26 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Green and Brown don't even play the same, or even share similar characteristics/interests/personalities on and off the court.

Green doesn't even have half the work ethic, Brown have had. Whether or not the lost potential is due to his heart surgery, who knows... But Brown is clearly better than Green, let's be honest.

Just say no to LeBron
Just say no to Kawhi

Let's not risk future pieces for guys who may not even want to stick around long term.

We have the chance to build a team that will win for years to come, no need for instant gratification. Let's keep the current team as-is.
Brown may not want to stick long term, he already puplic stated concern about Ainge+Brad's decision of trading IT

You don't know, that's just speculation.
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Re: Why Kawhi Leonard...we already have him
« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2018, 05:03:18 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I would spend the next twenty minutes of my life showing you how stupid it is to compare young Jeff Green to Jaylen Brown, but life is too short even for twenty minutes.

I'll just say, either you don't really believe that take or you haven't thought about the context of those stats much at all.
No its a take he brings up periodically to get a reaction.

Re: Why Kawhi Leonard...we already have him
« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2018, 05:11:56 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Quote
I'm not sure I know of another player that gets his shot blocked as much as he does.

Blocked by Korver, too. That alone has me second-guessing his athleticism, lol.

I would rather trade Kyrie for Leonard, still. Smart/Rozier, Brown, Leonard, Tatum, Horford would be a dominant defense.

Is there any way that G. Hayward could handle a point forward type position?  Is he a good enough ball handler?

Hayward - Brown - Leonard - Tatum - Horford would be a scary lineup for the rest of the nba if one of those guys could run the show.

Bahahaha, I completely forgot about Hayward. Yeah Brown Hayward Leonard Tatum Horford is a lineup of doom. They would all run the show, each of them. A nightmare of interchangeability.
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Re: Why Kawhi Leonard...we already have him
« Reply #50 on: June 15, 2018, 05:43:34 PM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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JB had great surrounding casts and an exceptional coach in his second year.

Although one can argue that his two best teammates were sitting out the entire year.

Are you trying to tell me Kawhi was in a cesspit in San Antonio? Have we forgotten Tim Duncan already????

Re: Why Kawhi Leonard...we already have him
« Reply #51 on: June 15, 2018, 05:44:58 PM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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I'll bet all my tommy points with someone that Kawhi or Lebron don't come here, any takers?

Re: Why Kawhi Leonard...we already have him
« Reply #52 on: June 15, 2018, 05:46:06 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I think Jaylen's ceiling is Kawhi Leonard with better athleticism.

Tatum's ceiling is similar to KD's (so slightly better than Leonard's or about the same)

Of course, some folks will call me a crazy homer for saying that  :P

But yeah, I'd *consider* trading Jaylen in a package for Kawhi but ultimately wouldn't. Jaylen's young, on a rookie contract and currently on a trajectory similar to Kawhi/Butler/George. Not too shabby  8)
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Re: Why Kawhi Leonard...we already have him
« Reply #53 on: June 15, 2018, 06:30:53 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Philly is absolutely better than Boston if Leonard joins them if the trade is something like Covington, Fultz, and 10.

I don't agree.   JR is a FA and if they get Leonard would they resign them.   There goes the outside shooting.   Also FA  Amir and Bellini, some of their good bench bigs.  Simmons can't shoot zone it up and let him and Embiid brick their way to losses.   Embiid can't be relied of in terms of health.   Also, add Irving and Hayward and we would clobber them.  Hype does not win games!

No one is going to give up crap for Fultz, you had their front office peeps just come and say they advised against drafting him.

Quote
"It was a decision praised at the time, but after Fultz struggled in his workout with the Sixers last June, league sources say some Sixers front office members suggested that despite making the trade, the team should have taken a second look at Tatum or Lonzo Ball. But the idea was shot down by Colangelo, according to sources."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2780982-bryan-colangelo-reportedly-overruled-76ers-execs-about-drafting-markelle-fultz

This just came out a few days, do you think that helps his trade value?  Nope.

Re: Why Kawhi Leonard...we already have him
« Reply #54 on: June 15, 2018, 06:33:33 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Kawhi and Jimmy Butler are a couple rare exceptions.  Generally, NBA superstars reach that level before age 23.  Go back and look at guys like Durant, Anthony Davis, Kobe, LeBron, etc and you'll see all of them more or less reach their superstar stat output by age 21.  That's why you should prepare yourself for Tatum (a true superstar prospect) to reach that level as early as next season.

With Kawhi and JImmy, they had uniquely weird developmental paths where they slowly improved over the course of 5 seasons getting to their "star" level at age 25. 

It's not as rare as you think. Kawhi made his first all star team at 24, Jimmy Butler at 25. Demar Derozan, Klay Thompson, and Bradley Beal were 24. Steph Curry was 25. Gordon Hayward, Kemba Walker, and Lamarcus Aldridge were 26.  Paul George made it when he was 22 but his 2nd year numbers weren't as good as Jaylens were.

The real outliers are guys like Kyle Lowry or Paul Millsap who don't make it until they're, like 28.

So Jaylen might not be Durant or Anthony Davis but if he turns out to be Paul George that would be excellent.
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Re: Why Kawhi Leonard...we already have him
« Reply #55 on: June 15, 2018, 08:05:29 PM »

Offline Fireworks_Boom!

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Brown is due a huge contact (not quite as huge but still large) only one season later than Kawhi.

I don't get this point and I don't think it's accurate either. Brown is cost-controlled for 2 more years right now (18/19 @ $5.2m and 19/20 @ $6.5m Team Option) with a qualifying offer of $8.6m the following season and right to match. Kawhi is currently making $20m+ for this upcoming season and the one following and set to make more thereafter.

I don't think this is the right move for this team. Jaylen Brown's skillset is similar to KL and allows us to invest in other areas. I'd rather we traded for Karl-Anthony Towns than KL.

Re: Why Kawhi Leonard...we already have him
« Reply #56 on: June 15, 2018, 08:16:38 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I think Jaylen's ceiling is Kawhi Leonard with better athleticism.

Tatum's ceiling is similar to KD's (so slightly better than Leonard's or about the same)

Of course, some folks will call me a crazy homer for saying that  :P

But yeah, I'd *consider* trading Jaylen in a package for Kawhi but ultimately wouldn't. Jaylen's young, on a rookie contract and currently on a trajectory similar to Kawhi/Butler/George. Not too shabby  8)

whats next, Yabusele is the next Draymond Green?

come on man lol

Leonard is a "careful player".   Brown imo can be a little wild/trigger happy at times

Durant can score over anybody.   3 pt range is ridiculous.  high elevation and quick release.   Tatum doesn't have this capability.  Tatum is going to be good, but more comparable to PG13 but with a slightly higher potential

Re: Why Kawhi Leonard...we already have him
« Reply #57 on: June 15, 2018, 08:20:10 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I think Jaylen's ceiling is Kawhi Leonard with better athleticism.

Tatum's ceiling is similar to KD's (so slightly better than Leonard's or about the same)

Of course, some folks will call me a crazy homer for saying that  :P

But yeah, I'd *consider* trading Jaylen in a package for Kawhi but ultimately wouldn't. Jaylen's young, on a rookie contract and currently on a trajectory similar to Kawhi/Butler/George. Not too shabby  8)
I don’t think Jaylen will ever be as good defensively as Kawhi. And that’s not a diss to JB, but Kawhi is probably the best wing defender I’ve seen post-2000. He’s an absolute game changer on defence, and is still a better rebounder and better and more efficient scorer than JB. JB has a long way to go before he gets there.

I think JT could be GSW Durant-esque, but obviously shorter. Not the gaudy numbers of OKC Durant, but efficient 22-26ppg with good defence
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Re: Why Kawhi Leonard...we already have him
« Reply #58 on: June 15, 2018, 08:42:03 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Honestly, if you were trying to build a poor man's version of the Warriors to match up with Steph, Klay, Durant and Draymond... you'd basically come up with Kyrie, Hayward, Kawhi and Horford.  That's about as close as it gets.  If you can have those 4 while also keeping Tatum and think you can keep all those guys long-term, you might have to do it.

Kyrie = Steph - sharp-shooting dynamic and efficient guard
Hayward = Klay - Elite shooter
Kawhi = Durant - Mvp-level talent
Horford = Draymond - Floor spreading big who does a little of everything

Man, if you can get those 4, keep Tatum AND most of our key picks, we're in business.  Hence why Brown + a Smart sign-and-trade might be the deal to make.

Re: Why Kawhi Leonard...we already have him
« Reply #59 on: June 15, 2018, 08:57:47 PM »

Offline KGBirdBias

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Let's say Ainge makes a deal of Brown, Smart and picks for Kawhi.

Then we have a lineup of
Kyrie
Hayward
Tatum
Kawhi
Horford

Ainge will then have to decide who to sign either Kyrie or Kawhi. Since Rozier is on board, Kyrie may be the odd man out.  I think Ainge could then still work a S&T involving Horford for the one that doesn't want to resign. Ainge would be betting both don't want to walk and if they both want to sign, then Horford and Rozier are gone.

Getting both will make it harder for both to turn down big money. Either way, Ainge wouldn't let them walk for nothing.